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(Yahoo)   Till Death Do Us Part' used to have something to do with marriage and a partner, these days in America it now has to do with you and your job   (finance.yahoo.com) divider line 144
    More: Sad, pension plans, fixed costs  
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9012 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Jun 2014 at 2:43 AM (19 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-18 07:13:15 AM  
twat_waffle: It is a fact that we will eventually come to a point where we have a Malthusian crisis in the workforce because of things like automation, offshoring, and possibly old people not retiring. What do we, as a society, do at that point? Tell the unfortunate bastards who couldn't find a job that pays a living wage to sod off and die? Do you think that they will gladly comply with such a request? We need to start coming up with an answer to this question now so that we can avoid the massive social upheaval that comes from an impoverished class growing ever faster.

Australia is already halfway there.. current government is bringing in legislation to extend retirement age to 70, and cut out all welfare payments for unemployed people for the first 6 months (so they basically live on $0).
 
2014-06-18 07:20:35 AM  

Animatronik: some_beer_drinker: how many farking times do i have to post this. universal basic income. it's what's right. at least for white people. those brown guys are on their own...

Aka communism.

See 20th century for the fail.



No it is not communism. Communism on its very basis was that everybody must have the same.  The scientist was paid the same as the janitor.  A basic income is that everybody is given a basic amount of money each week no matter what and on top of that they can work in careers own property just like they do today at different pay scales.

Communism stifled innovation,  drive.   Basic income does not but does make sure people are not driven to work in jobs out of fear of starving or not being able to live anywhere.
 
2014-06-18 07:25:39 AM  

dragonchild: Of course it's a tax. Have you ever seen a W2 form? If you've ever worked for a living, you've received one. It says right there on the form, "Social Security Tax". Something is a sham because it works exactly as advertised? Where did you think SS income comes from, a magical piggy bank in the clouds full of rainbows and dreams?


Actually, the W-2 says FICA but that's splitting hairs.  Here's the dirty little secret.  Employers don't pay for anything that the employee doesn't earn.  No matter what kind of fringe benefits a company pays for, it does so only on the basis of what the employees are productive enough for the company to charge its customers for.  That health insurance policy that your company "pays" for?  You earned it.  That "paid" vacation?  You earned it.  Matching FICA?  you earned it  FMLA?  you earned it.  Company car?  You guessed it; you earned it.  The thing about all the fringe benefits and pensions and everything else the company supposedly pays for is that you earned it but you have little voice in how those earnings are spent.

The same is true with government spending on your behalf.  Government has no wealth of its own.  It only has what it collects through taxes and fees.  Guess who earns those taxes.  If you guessed the working class, you win the prize.  Social Security confiscates 15% of the productivity of the working class, squanders it in any way whichever government happens to be controlling the purse strings this election cycle, and then decides how much it wishes, in its magnanimous beneficence, to trickle back out to those who earned it.

Capitalists operate on margins.  The fact that companies have gotten so big is why those margins add up to so much money.  Another serious problem in our economy is that bankers and various Treasury Secretaries and Fed chairman (but then, that's a whole string of redundancy, isn't it?) have convinced us that cash is a commodity in and of itself and that has only served to take more wealth out of the hands of the middle class and remove any security in middle class investments at the same time.  Those of us who lived through the radical inflation of the 60s and 70s remember how many seniors' life savings were rendered virtually worthless.  If you owned real property and equities, however, you were spared many of the ravages of inflation.

In my opinion, the middle class would be a lot better off if businesses were required to give employees all of their earnings and then allow/require them to make the choice of how those earnings are spent/invested/frittered.  It is my opinion that withholding taxes are immoral.  The government confiscates a significant portion of your earnings before you ever see it.  Understand that I am not against paying taxes.  Taxes are necessary in order for the government to fulfill its functions.  But citizens should be required to sit down and write that check out of their earnings.  Withholding taxes are nothing more than the government clearly stating that those same people it expects to be noble enough to vote it into office are a bunch of deadbeat crooks who cannot be relied on to fulfill their civic responsibility.

We have moved a very long way from the laborer being considered worthy of his hire and getting his due.  Too many years of believing the hucksters - both from the private sector and government - that we are incapable of managing our affairs.  So, just like parents manage the money of their minor children "for their own good" so our "betters" manage our affairs for us.

To date, I am disappointed with their management.  I don't see a great turnaround in the near future.
 
2014-06-18 07:29:42 AM  

some_beer_drinker: how many farking times do i have to post this. universal basic income. it's what's right. at least for white people. those brown guys are on their own...


So we'll create an underclass of workers supporting an upper class of people permenantly on vacation. What a crock.
 
2014-06-18 07:37:11 AM  
I've always said my long-term retirement plan is being handled by Smith & Wesson
 
2014-06-18 07:41:30 AM  

wildcardjack: Yeah, which means that there aren't any openings for new grads, which means there's no one to buy your assets, which means you can't retire.


This is one side of the coin, the other side is that life expectancy has increased while the retirement age has been fairly stagnant, so rather than planning a few years of retirement expenses, people now have to consider over a decade or more of such expenses.  With pensions and investments no longer being as lucrative as they once were, how is anyone supposed to get by retiring on time?
 
2014-06-18 07:45:10 AM  

farkingismybusiness: DanZero: [37.media.tumblr.com image 500x382]
[3.bp.blogspot.com image 437x288]


Dang. I don't need such feels this early in the morning. Already dealing with a friend's suicide...
 
2014-06-18 07:45:41 AM  
Don't worry, at 65, I'm going to free up my lucrative profession for a life of stripping and prostitution.
 
2014-06-18 07:47:55 AM  

TommyymmoT: Problem is, most companies don't offer retirement benefits anymore, and many of the boomers were living paycheck to paycheck just like the way that more than half the US is living currently, and didn't have the opportunity to put anything away.
Especially if you're not making much more than minimum wage after your company 'downsized'.

Many lost their retirement money through corporate mismanagement, investments that notably went belly up a few years ago, or lost it through outright white collar theft.

Social security simply isn't enough for most people to survive on, and notice I said "survive", not "live comfortably".


The youngest person who could have voted for Uncle Ron in 1980 is 51 right now. The idea of corporate worship falls squarely on the older generation.

If only there was a greater union presence and a strong social safety net...
 
2014-06-18 07:48:36 AM  

Mr. Right: Withholding taxes are nothing more than the government clearly stating that those same people it expects to be noble enough to vote it into office are a bunch of deadbeat crooks who cannot be relied on to fulfill their civic responsibility.


I like how you've written this sentence as if it defends your position instead of being completely correct.

Without taxes being withheld, you would be able to categorize the nation neatly into 2 categories: people who intentionally cheat their taxes, and people who didn't budget correctly to be able to pay them. There will be precisely 17 autistics who manage to pull off correctly calculating their exact taxes and pay it off on time.

There is no way you have ever worked freelance or talked with freelance workers and still be able to hold the position that a random selection of educated, middle class people know fark all how to handle their own money, let alone people on the poorer end of the spectrum.
 
2014-06-18 07:50:08 AM  

labman: I've always said my long-term retirement plan is being handled by Smith & Wesson


I spent two years working as an EMT for a private ambulance company, our primary business was inter-facility transports (hospital discharges to nursing facilities, nursing facilities to hospitals or dialysis appointments or doctor appointments etc.) we did have some calls to homes, and some to correction facilities, and I tell you what... from what I witnessed in those nursing homes, you're better bet is to rob a bank - not for the money, but spending your twilight years in prison compared to a nursing home means better medical care along with three hots and a cot.
 
2014-06-18 07:50:45 AM  

Semantic Warrior: you're better bet i


your!  I meant your!

/too early
 
2014-06-18 07:53:14 AM  

Ambivalence: How would a pediatrician not be able to afford to retire?


No matter how much you make, it's easy to live above your means.
 
2014-06-18 07:54:13 AM  

Witness99: Don't worry, at 65, I'm going to free up my lucrative profession for a life of stripping and prostitution.


Almost clicked for pics in profile.
 
2014-06-18 08:00:19 AM  

robohobo: twat_waffle:I wasn't faulting Boomers who can't retire due to financial concerns that are not their fault. Their employers have failed them. I am pissed at the Boomers who have the financial security to retire, but choose not to because they wouldn't know what to do with themselves or some other such nonsense. fark those guys.

Totally! fark those guys who love their jobs, who find meaning in work! How dare they continue to make themselves useful while also finding satisfaction with how they spend their time. Assholes, the lot of them.  How dare they continue to live their lives how they choose! Why we haven't enacted Carousel yet is beyond me.

/or, you know, people who can't afford to have kids should stop having kids, but personal responsibility is such a drag, man.


Reproduction is a basic human drive. If you wanted to provide incentives for sterilization, go ahead. Before you do that, realize that our economy depends on a slightly positive population growth rate. If only those who could "afford" to have kids did so, we would quickly become like Japan, but without the weird porn and sardine tin subways.

And yes, fark those Boomers who find meaning in work and love their jobs. They've had their time in the workforce. Now it's time to make way for younger generations. I'm sure they can find meaning in any number of hobbies, or they could start a small business that is similar to what they did for a career. Them living as they choose is their right, as it is my right to call them selfish for it and to criticize them for being myopic and self-centered.
 
2014-06-18 08:01:31 AM  

evilmrsock: Without taxes being withheld, you would be able to categorize the nation neatly into 2 categories: people who intentionally cheat their taxes, and people who didn't budget correctly to be able to pay them.


Yeah, fark that.  They withhold taxes upfront for very good reasons.  I'm pretty good at budgeting, but I don't think I'd have the willpower to set aside a savings account just for taxes and never touch it.  That plus I can't begin to calculate my deductions, expenses, and credits months in advance.  It would be a nightmare.
 
2014-06-18 08:05:29 AM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: TommyymmoT: Problem is, most companies don't offer retirement benefits anymore, and many of the boomers were living paycheck to paycheck just like the way that more than half the US is living currently, and didn't have the opportunity to put anything away.
Especially if you're not making much more than minimum wage after your company 'downsized'.

Many lost their retirement money through corporate mismanagement, investments that notably went belly up a few years ago, or lost it through outright white collar theft.

Social security simply isn't enough for most people to survive on, and notice I said "survive", not "live comfortably".

The youngest person who could have voted for Uncle Ron in 1980 is 51 right now. The idea of corporate worship falls squarely on the older generation.

If only there was a greater union presence and a strong social safety net...


This, too. Most of the problems that are preventing a lot if Boomers from retiring were caused by policies they voted for. What they really meant by "trickle down" is that the wealthy would be pissing on the rest of us. Urine trickles down. Capital has always flowed up.
 
2014-06-18 08:07:01 AM  

TomD9938: That'd mark 50 years in my industry of choice, and while it will be partly out of necessity, it's also because I'm sure I'd quickly die without a reason to get out of bed each morning.


That's my feeling on it, too.  The money isn't the issue.  I'd quickly get very, VERY bored if I were to retire.

Guess I could always volunteer at a soup kitchen, or some other charity.  But, then it's just work without pay.
 
2014-06-18 08:14:20 AM  

evilmrsock: Mr. Right: Withholding taxes are nothing more than the government clearly stating that those same people it expects to be noble enough to vote it into office are a bunch of deadbeat crooks who cannot be relied on to fulfill their civic responsibility.

I like how you've written this sentence as if it defends your position instead of being completely correct.

Without taxes being withheld, you would be able to categorize the nation neatly into 2 categories: people who intentionally cheat their taxes, and people who didn't budget correctly to be able to pay them. There will be precisely 17 autistics who manage to pull off correctly calculating their exact taxes and pay it off on time.

There is no way you have ever worked freelance or talked with freelance workers and still be able to hold the position that a random selection of educated, middle class people know fark all how to handle their own money, let alone people on the poorer end of the spectrum.


I have been self-employed for 30 years.  I pay my quarterly estimated taxes.  My wife has been self-employed for over 20 years.  We pay her estimated taxes as well.  She has 2 different businesses, I have a consulting practice, a working farm, and I do wood-working and high end, custom furniture as a profitable hobby.  I have been doing all of my own taxes since before there was a Turbo-tax.  I've been audited by the IRS twice and both times, I came out clean as a whistle.  I am above average intelligence but I am not an accountant, let alone a CPA.

Within the township in which I reside, there are a half-dozen dairy farmers I know who either they or their wives pay employees, calculate taxes not only for themselves but the withholding for employees,  Not a CPA or tax lawyer in the bunch.  I know dozens of builders, plumbers, excavators, electricians, mechanics, painters, restaurant owners, and even other consultants.  All of them are self-employed.  A smaller percentage of them use the services of an accounting firm than the percentage of those who do their own books, taxes, payroll, etc.

No doubt that the tax code is intimidatingly complex - whether or not intentionally so I leave to another discussion.  But all of those self-employed folks, many armed with only a High School diploma, manage to wade through it. You perhaps don't give your fellow citizens enough credit.

I also know dozens of people who work in factories and offices.  They complain about taxes sometimes while waiting for their refund.  The self-employed get livid when quarterly estimated taxes are due.  The government knows this.  It's why it wants to have as many people as possible working in jobs where there is withholding and why it does very little to encourage small businesses (flowery rhetoric to the contrary notwithstanding).  If there is to be a true tax revolt in this country, make every wage earner sit down 4 times a year to pay estimated taxes and then spend a couple days early the next year figuring out if you guessed right.  As long as there is withholding and the majority of people "get a refund!!!!!  Whoopeee!!!"  government will not be accountable for how it spends our money.  That is the immorality of it.
 
2014-06-18 08:15:31 AM  
There are plenty of good paying jobs out there in the trades. Companies are begging for skilled tradespeople across most of the nation. But then again, the people with the arts degree and English degree would have to train for awhile in the given trade (welding, plumbing, HVAC, masonry etc.) and be willing to get sore muscles and dirty hands. Ain't gonna happen for the most part.
 
2014-06-18 08:23:18 AM  

Xythero: some_beer_drinker: how many farking times do i have to post this. universal basic income. it's what's right. at least for white people. those brown guys are on their own...

So we'll create an underclass of workers supporting an upper class of people permenantly on vacation. What a crock.


Socialism always ends in slavery, no matter how good the intentions.
 
2014-06-18 08:28:57 AM  

generallyso: Why 'I'll just work longer' is not a good retirement plan


Whether or not it's a good plan is irrelevant if it's the only plan available.


Quoted for truth.

I'm fortunate to have the job I do and the benefits that it comes with, and I appreciate it every single day.

But... I'm 45, and I have no hope of ever being able to afford to retire. I'm going to be working 40 hours/week (if I'm fortunate enough that it is available to me) every week for the rest of my life, however long that will be. Or until I'm too feeble to do it, in which case, life is over anyway.

Nothing's been holding me back except the fact that everything under the sun is getting more and more expensive because those who profit from it all can simply decide it shall be so, and solely for their own corrupt benefit. I've never asked for a handout, I've always been fortunate enough to be gainfully employed, and I've managed to not be a burden on anybody. I know not everybody can say these things, and I realize I'm fortunate to have what I do.

The gold that makes 'the Golden Years' is in the pockets of every corrupt MFer in corporate America. Thanks, aholes - you've got yours...

Break time's over... back to work...
 
2014-06-18 08:42:37 AM  

farkingismybusiness: DanZero: [37.media.tumblr.com image 500x382]
[3.bp.blogspot.com image 437x288]


Can we have a 'DAWWWWWW' button?
 
2014-06-18 08:47:47 AM  
"Frankly, my continuing to work is all about my wife, to ensure she will have the funds needed to sustain her if I pass away first," Morris says.

That's what a life insurance policy is for dumbass.
 
2014-06-18 08:49:40 AM  
And the divorce rate is way up.
 
2014-06-18 08:58:28 AM  

some_beer_drinker: [radicalunjobbing.files.wordpress.com image 452x433]
how many farking times do i have to post this. universal basic income. it's what's right. at least for white people. those brown guys are on their own...


Did you post that like twice yesterday in different threads? I think I saw it quoted yesterday while reading but cannot remember since I am trying to learn a bunch of new stuff at a new job while simultaneously surfing Fark.

TomD9938: it's also because I'm sure I'd quickly die without a reason to get out of bed each morning.


I think I've read that that happens to a lot of people when they get older. Look at what happened to Joe Paterno when he retired (all rape jokes and what not aside) his health crashed in like 2 weeks.
 
2014-06-18 09:12:04 AM  

Foxxinnia: Why everyone doesn't just commit suicide on their 66th birthday is just beyond me at this point.


That is the best pick up line if you want to sleep with anyone in Congress.  Watch out, if they are reading your post, you'll be getting stalker emails within the hour.

Politicians would love to not payout social security, and will sleep with anyone to make it happen.
 
2014-06-18 09:21:18 AM  

Semantic Warrior: labman: I've always said my long-term retirement plan is being handled by Smith & Wesson

I spent two years working as an EMT for a private ambulance company, our primary business was inter-facility transports (hospital discharges to nursing facilities, nursing facilities to hospitals or dialysis appointments or doctor appointments etc.) we did have some calls to homes, and some to correction facilities, and I tell you what... from what I witnessed in those nursing homes, you're better bet is to rob a bank - not for the money, but spending your twilight years in prison compared to a nursing home means better medical care along with three hots and a cot.


I thought you were going to say suicide by cop, which would also be effective.
 
2014-06-18 09:28:34 AM  

Mr. Right: evilmrsock: Mr. Right: Withholding taxes are nothing more than the government clearly stating that those same people it expects to be noble enough to vote it into office are a bunch of deadbeat crooks who cannot be relied on to fulfill their civic responsibility.

I like how you've written this sentence as if it defends your position instead of being completely correct.

Without taxes being withheld, you would be able to categorize the nation neatly into 2 categories: people who intentionally cheat their taxes, and people who didn't budget correctly to be able to pay them. There will be precisely 17 autistics who manage to pull off correctly calculating their exact taxes and pay it off on time.

There is no way you have ever worked freelance or talked with freelance workers and still be able to hold the position that a random selection of educated, middle class people know fark all how to handle their own money, let alone people on the poorer end of the spectrum.

I have been self-employed for 30 years.  I pay my quarterly estimated taxes.  My wife has been self-employed for over 20 years.  We pay her estimated taxes as well.  She has 2 different businesses, I have a consulting practice, a working farm, and I do wood-working and high end, custom furniture as a profitable hobby.  I have been doing all of my own taxes since before there was a Turbo-tax.  I've been audited by the IRS twice and both times, I came out clean as a whistle.  I am above average intelligence but I am not an accountant, let alone a CPA.

Within the township in which I reside, there are a half-dozen dairy farmers I know who either they or their wives pay employees, calculate taxes not only for themselves but the withholding for employees,  Not a CPA or tax lawyer in the bunch.  I know dozens of builders, plumbers, excavators, electricians, mechanics, painters, restaurant owners, and even other consultants.  All of them are self-employed.  A smaller percentage of them use the services of an acco ...


Mr Right is right.

It bothers me that my friends celebrate their refund like it's some sort of gift or surprise. When my wife and I were in the financial position of getting a refund we setup our taxes so that it was as close to zero as possible and actually preferred to owe a few hundred. Your tax refund is your money paid back to you at zero interest. Just let that sink in for a moment, if it doesn't then go to your bank and ask for a loan without interest and consider their response.
 
2014-06-18 09:36:30 AM  

Mr. Right: I have been self-employed for 30 years.  I pay my quarterly estimated taxes.  My wife has been self-employed for over 20 years.  We pay her estimated taxes as well.


That is super awesome for you, and I mean that.

You are delusional if you think that you are the rule and not an exception, and if you think that the people in your town are reporting their interpersonal cash transactions with 100% accuracy, then you're gullible too. You might as well tell me that they report their out-of-state online purchases in full for use tax.

You are also willfully obtuse towards educational and cultural differences between your rural environment and the physical majority of the lower income tax base living in urban areas.  I'm sorry to bust your balls, because if you're being honest, then congratulations, you're walking the walk.

I live in a world where people who vote yes to every local civic improvement while making $60k+ biatch about "the man" "stealing" fraom their thousand dollar freelance jobs, and how issuing a 1099 is "uncalled for". Your proposal is so fiscally naive that I would run it verbatim in a campaign against you if we were competing for public office.
 
2014-06-18 09:36:30 AM  
Maybe they could vote once in a while. Of course, that might turn them into Europeans.
 
2014-06-18 09:36:36 AM  

some_beer_drinker: how many farking times do i have to post this. universal basic income. it's what's right. at least for white people. those brown guys are on their own...


Every time I see that picture I think that old man is doing the water sprinkler dance
 
2014-06-18 09:43:59 AM  

WTFDYW: There are plenty of good paying jobs out there in the trades. Companies are begging for skilled tradespeople across most of the nation. But then again, the people with the arts degree and English degree would have to train for awhile in the given trade (welding, plumbing, HVAC, masonry etc.) and be willing to get sore muscles and dirty hands. Ain't gonna happen for the most part.


As someone who dug ditches to pay for their 'liberal arts' degree, DIAF. As someone who works with guys who have to have back surgery before they hit 30, FU. The reason most of us went to school is so we didn't have to continue doing labor. The idea was that we were suppose to be managing the guys who were doing the labor, but in an unhealthy economy companies don't have the funds to train people, so they want those with experience whom they can hire at substandard wages as there is a glut of overqualified people.

Besides, having too many people in the trades diminishes the value of the trade. If everyone is a plumber, no one needs a plumber. A functioning economy needs a diversity of skills and mindsets or we don't have an economy. Also avoids group think, cause that's never a good thing.

Anyway, the simplest solution to the problem is to find a way to get money into the hands of the lower class, and it will trickle up by the end of the day, changing hands several times over, which will in turn create demand and jobs.

Or we can start hunting plutocrats and oligarchs for sport. I'm game either way.
 
2014-06-18 09:55:11 AM  

GodComplex: WTFDYW: There are plenty of good paying jobs out there in the trades. Companies are begging for skilled tradespeople across most of the nation. But then again, the people with the arts degree and English degree would have to train for awhile in the given trade (welding, plumbing, HVAC, masonry etc.) and be willing to get sore muscles and dirty hands. Ain't gonna happen for the most part.

As someone who dug ditches to pay for their 'liberal arts' degree, DIAF. As someone who works with guys who have to have back surgery before they hit 30, FU. The reason most of us went to school is so we didn't have to continue doing labor. The idea was that we were suppose to be managing the guys who were doing the labor, but in an unhealthy economy companies don't have the funds to train people, so they want those with experience whom they can hire at substandard wages as there is a glut of overqualified people.

Besides, having too many people in the trades diminishes the value of the trade. If everyone is a plumber, no one needs a plumber. A functioning economy needs a diversity of skills and mindsets or we don't have an economy. Also avoids group think, cause that's never a good thing.

Anyway, the simplest solution to the problem is to find a way to get money into the hands of the lower class, and it will trickle up by the end of the day, changing hands several times over, which will in turn create demand and jobs.

Or we can start hunting plutocrats and oligarchs for sport. I'm game either way.


Your concern is noted. Now, EABOD and don't biatch about there not being ang jobs available and then be one of those that , at the same time biatch about the Messicans taking our jerbs.  FU!
 
2014-06-18 10:00:43 AM  

WTFDYW: Your concern is noted. Now, EABOD and don't biatch about there not being ang jobs available and then be one of those that , at the same time biatch about the Messicans taking our jerbs. FU!


Yea, yea, we get it. You hate your job and you think you can feel better about yourself by picking silly fights over it on Fark. I'd suggest maybe instead you consider taking night classes until you can get a degree and break into the professional world with the rest of us, but that's just me.
 
2014-06-18 10:09:57 AM  

frostus: Wolf892: I'm hoping that not only euthanasia legal in Canada by the time I'm 60 but that it will be so common that we have "suicide booths" straight out of "Futurama" that we can step inside that take us out quick, painlessly and efficiently deal with the body.

If not, the future is a very, very scary place.

60? Damn, that's only a year and a half for me.


you've had your time, old man.
 
2014-06-18 10:10:39 AM  

skozlaw: WTFDYW: Your concern is noted. Now, EABOD and don't biatch about there not being ang jobs available and then be one of those that , at the same time biatch about the Messicans taking our jerbs. FU!

Yea, yea, we get it. You hate your job and you think you can feel better about yourself by picking silly fights over it on Fark. I'd suggest maybe instead you consider taking night classes until you can get a degree and break into the professional world with the rest of us, but that's just me.


I'm quite happy with my job, thank you and it is a professional job. Suck it asswipe.
 
2014-06-18 10:11:48 AM  
I was told the most dangerous time of your life is 18 months after retirement, so maybe the best plan to a long life is not to retire.
//I hope that is not right.
 
2014-06-18 10:15:23 AM  

Bailed out the rich, at the expense of the poor. That's recovery for you.

 
2014-06-18 10:19:57 AM  
Just for the record:  When I was in high school (1980's), almost all cashiers and bagboys at (for instance) the grocery store were high schoolers. Same for many of the people who worrked nights and weekends at Sears or many other stores at the mall or the movie theater.  Nowadays, most of those jobs are done by older people. Most of the bagboys at my Publix are older or post-retirement. And it's pretty easy to spot an older laid-off executive operating the cash register.  What I'm getting at it that the combination of fewer jobs for younger people plus the need for older and post-retirement folks to take many of those jobs is NOT a good thing for anybody.
 
2014-06-18 10:21:08 AM  

Benni K Rok: Semantic Warrior: labman: I've always said my long-term retirement plan is being handled by Smith & Wesson

I spent two years working as an EMT for a private ambulance company, our primary business was inter-facility transports (hospital discharges to nursing facilities, nursing facilities to hospitals or dialysis appointments or doctor appointments etc.) we did have some calls to homes, and some to correction facilities, and I tell you what... from what I witnessed in those nursing homes, you're better bet is to rob a bank - not for the money, but spending your twilight years in prison compared to a nursing home means better medical care along with three hots and a cot.

I thought you were going to say suicide by cop, which would also be effective.


Hey, if you do it right, your family can sue for wrongful death and it's like leaving them an inheritance.
 
2014-06-18 10:25:51 AM  

MelGoesOnTour: Just for the record:  When I was in high school (1980's), almost all cashiers and bagboys at (for instance) the grocery store were high schoolers. Same for many of the people who worrked nights and weekends at Sears or many other stores at the mall or the movie theater.  Nowadays, most of those jobs are done by older people. Most of the bagboys at my Publix are older or post-retirement. And it's pretty easy to spot an older laid-off executive operating the cash register.  What I'm getting at it that the combination of fewer jobs for younger people plus the need for older and post-retirement folks to take many of those jobs is NOT a good thing for anybody.


I used to deliver papers and mow lawns. Now the adults do it. Most teens are now screwed when it comes to employment.
 
2014-06-18 10:33:57 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: TomD9938: I intend to work until my 71st birthday if my health allows.  I'm 45 now, so retirement will be April of 2040.

That'd mark 50 years in my industry of choice, and while it will be partly out of necessity, it's also because I'm sure I'd quickly die without a reason to get out of bed each morning.

FTA:

Wiley suffered a stroke not long after leaving his job.

This right there.

Is your job something you genuinely enjoy, or are you doing just for the money and having something to occupy you time?


Genuinely enjoy (most days).

Im self employed, but I liked the field before that too.  I liked the team work, sense of accomplishment, the whole package.

Again, it's not like there weren't bad days.
 
2014-06-18 10:34:27 AM  
FTFA: Wiley suffered a stroke not long after leaving his job.

This happened to a friend of mine a couple years ago. Well, it was a heart attack, most likely. Difference is, he was morbidly obese, had a litany of related medical conditions, and got shiatcanned from his job. The mail-order pharmacy dropped the ball when he went on COBRA and didn't send him his pills for a couple weeks.

/Didn't tell any of his friends about the pill situation. He was stubborn that way.
//Sad part is, the light bulb had gone off - he was going to use his unemployment time to lose the weight and get his shiat together. At least, so he'd said.
///Untreated clinical depression is a hell of a thing.
 
2014-06-18 10:34:39 AM  
I look around at my friends who are all about 50 years old and maybe 2 or 3 of them have been saving for retirement. I would like to forward that article to a few of them but it may be too little too late and just seen a a rude reminder of "you will be poor and working FOREVER"
//My only hope is they have no plans of coming to me for money later in life. My former in-laws thought my wife and I were some sort of bank but divorce fixed that.
 
2014-06-18 10:36:50 AM  
By the time I'm retired, I hope my sign at work looks more like this:

i.imgur.com
 
2014-06-18 10:38:46 AM  
As an automation engineer, I always get a kick out of these threads.  I work primarily in medical device manufacturing, so if I do my job correctly, thousands of jobs are lost to automation, those jobs that remain can have lower skilled employees, so wages decrease, and hundreds of thousands of lives are saved, so population growth steadily increases.

I support a universal living wage.  It always amuses me to watch people try to argue that job creation and wages can even remotely keep up with population growth.
 
2014-06-18 10:44:03 AM  

GodComplex: WTFDYW: There are plenty of good paying jobs out there in the trades. Companies are begging for skilled tradespeople across most of the nation. But then again, the people with the arts degree and English degree would have to train for awhile in the given trade (welding, plumbing, HVAC, masonry etc.) and be willing to get sore muscles and dirty hands. Ain't gonna happen for the most part.

As someone who dug ditches to pay for their 'liberal arts' degree, DIAF. As someone who works with guys who have to have back surgery before they hit 30, FU. The reason most of us went to school is so we didn't have to continue doing labor. The idea was that we were suppose to be managing the guys who were doing the labor, but in an unhealthy economy companies don't have the funds to train people, so they want those with experience whom they can hire at substandard wages as there is a glut of overqualified people.

Besides, having too many people in the trades diminishes the value of the trade. If everyone is a plumber, no one needs a plumber. A functioning economy needs a diversity of skills and mindsets or we don't have an economy. Also avoids group think, cause that's never a good thing.

Anyway, the simplest solution to the problem is to find a way to get money into the hands of the lower class, and it will trickle up by the end of the day, changing hands several times over, which will in turn create demand and jobs.

Or we can start hunting plutocrats and oligarchs for sport. I'm game either way.


Maybe if we made getting into college and getting a degree harder there wouldn't so many people out there over qualified
 
2014-06-18 10:52:24 AM  
Here is the wake up call for those who think they will work well beyond retirement age: think again. We will not be allowed to. We will be pushed out for younger workers, who will require less money and fewer benefits. Right now, if you are over 50 and lose your job, the probability of finding another one that has a salary that matches your previous one is almost zero. If you are over 55, your chance of getting any new job is rather low. Older workers are forced out of organizations all the time and this is done without any worry of being in violation of age discrimination laws.

And, you know what? We should accept this. 45 +/- years is plenty long enough to be in the labor market. With technology eliminating more and more jobs, there will be fewer available as time passes. Younger workers, who have families to support, need those jobs more than an older worker, who wants to work five more years so that he can add another $150/mo to his annuity payment.
 
2014-06-18 10:54:17 AM  
I had to work outside major cities to earn my time and position, while guys with 20+ years on me get to sit around and drink coffee for 3-4 hrs a day.    I've been told to not "Rock the boat"  with my work attitude, if so it might reveal how much production loss the company actually might have.


I'm a big fan of working hard, but not killing myself.   I am disgusted with I'll work when I can, when I feel like it attitudes.

Why yes I work in a union.    It's great when you really need it, but sometimes you have the worst possible example of an employee, that because they're in the union that gives them immunity for being a lazy fark.

/Bitter, and I'm 30.
//Can't wait to see how much that goes up.
 
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