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(Yahoo)   Till Death Do Us Part' used to have something to do with marriage and a partner, these days in America it now has to do with you and your job   (finance.yahoo.com) divider line 144
    More: Sad, pension plans, fixed costs  
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9015 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Jun 2014 at 2:43 AM (23 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-18 01:39:56 AM  
37.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-06-18 02:45:34 AM  
Yeah, which means that there aren't any openings for new grads, which means there's no one to buy your assets, which means you can't retire.
 
2014-06-18 02:50:51 AM  
Why everyone doesn't just commit suicide on their 66th birthday is just beyond me at this point.
 
2014-06-18 02:59:20 AM  

DanZero: [37.media.tumblr.com image 500x382]

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-06-18 03:02:40 AM  

Foxxinnia: Why everyone doesn't just commit suicide on their 66th birthday is just beyond me at this point.


But then you wouldn't have a job wiping their asses, or mopping up their drool.
 
2014-06-18 03:03:39 AM  
He currently contributes 40% of his salary to his 401(k).

Good luck with that.

401(k)s are a sham

Duped by a DIY retirement dream, the elderly now face staggeringly low living standards
 
2014-06-18 03:05:52 AM  
It's the american dream!!
 
2014-06-18 03:06:48 AM  
Why 'I'll just work longer' is not a good retirement plan


Whether or not it's a good plan is irrelevant if it's the only plan available.
 
2014-06-18 03:08:18 AM  
radicalunjobbing.files.wordpress.com
how many farking times do i have to post this. universal basic income. it's what's right. at least for white people. those brown guys are on their own...
 
2014-06-18 03:13:17 AM  
I intend to work until my 71st birthday if my health allows.  I'm 45 now, so retirement will be April of 2040.

That'd mark 50 years in my industry of choice, and while it will be partly out of necessity, it's also because I'm sure I'd quickly die without a reason to get out of bed each morning.

FTA:

Wiley suffered a stroke not long after leaving his job.

This right there.
 
2014-06-18 03:25:48 AM  

some_beer_drinker: [radicalunjobbing.files.wordpress.com image 452x433]
how many farking times do i have to post this. universal basic income. it's what's right. at least for white people. those brown guys are on their own...


Yeah, good luck with that nonsense. Not even ridiculously left wing countries in Europe have even come close to enacting such wholesale Robin Hooding.
 
2014-06-18 03:41:03 AM  

Foxxinnia: Why everyone doesn't just commit suicide on their 66th birthday is just beyond me at this point.


You have to be the change you want to see in the world.
 
2014-06-18 03:41:27 AM  

Wolf892: I'm hoping that not only euthanasia legal in Canada by the time I'm 60 but that it will be so common that we have "suicide booths" straight out of "Futurama" that we can step inside that take us out quick, painlessly and efficiently deal with the body.

If not, the future is a very, very scary place.


60? Damn, that's only a year and a half for me.
 
2014-06-18 03:42:50 AM  

robohobo: Yeah, good luck with that nonsense. Not even ridiculously left wing countries in Europe have even come close to enacting such wholesale Robin Hooding.


Didn't Sweden do it recently?
 
2014-06-18 03:47:44 AM  

robohobo: some_beer_drinker: [radicalunjobbing.files.wordpress.com image 452x433]
how many farking times do i have to post this. universal basic income. it's what's right. at least for white people. those brown guys are on their own...

Yeah, good luck with that nonsense. Not even ridiculously left wing countries in Europe have even come close to enacting such wholesale Robin Hooding.


You do realize that, without Boomers retiring, there won't be any openings for the generation that is entering the workforce, right? How are these newly minted adults supposed to go about supporting themselves? Would you rather they become desperate and turn to crime to put food on their tables, roofs over their heads, and clothes on their backs? Do you know what that kind of stuff does to a society and its government? I'll give you two hints: France in 1789 and the Arab Spring.

The deal was this: you put in your 49-42 years of working for a living. You saved money for retirement. Then, you step aside to make room for younger people who are just getting out of school so that they can put their 49-42 years of making a living in. Without the economy adding an entire generation's worth of jobs very quickly, there is just no way to accommodate the extra workers. On top of that, these Boomers are depressing the value of labor by continuing to work.
 
2014-06-18 03:48:22 AM  

Ambivalence: robohobo: Yeah, good luck with that nonsense. Not even ridiculously left wing countries in Europe have even come close to enacting such wholesale Robin Hooding.

Didn't Sweden do it recently?


They tried.
 
2014-06-18 03:56:01 AM  
i.dailymail.co.uk
 
2014-06-18 03:59:48 AM  

Foxxinnia: Why everyone doesn't just commit suicide on their 66th birthday is just beyond me at this point.


65 yo raises his hand to demur
 
2014-06-18 04:15:01 AM  

Wolf892: I just figure that 60 is probably when my body might start showing the more serious signs of age. I don't want to end up with rectal cancer, dementia, or any other "surprises" of age.
So I'm hoping by 60 we have something figured out suicide booth wise by then.


That's what guns are for.

/among other things
 
2014-06-18 04:15:10 AM  

twat_waffle: robohobo: some_beer_drinker: [radicalunjobbing.files.wordpress.com image 452x433]
how many farking times do i have to post this. universal basic income. it's what's right. at least for white people. those brown guys are on their own...

Yeah, good luck with that nonsense. Not even ridiculously left wing countries in Europe have even come close to enacting such wholesale Robin Hooding.

You do realize that, without Boomers retiring, there won't be any openings for the generation that is entering the workforce, right? How are these newly minted adults supposed to go about supporting themselves? Would you rather they become desperate and turn to crime to put food on their tables, roofs over their heads, and clothes on their backs? Do you know what that kind of stuff does to a society and its government? I'll give you two hints: France in 1789 and the Arab Spring.

The deal was this: you put in your 49-42 years of working for a living. You saved money for retirement. Then, you step aside to make room for younger people who are just getting out of school so that they can put their 49-42 years of making a living in. Without the economy adding an entire generation's worth of jobs very quickly, there is just no way to accommodate the extra workers. On top of that, these Boomers are depressing the value of labor by continuing to work.


================

Problem is, most companies don't offer retirement benefits anymore,  and many of the boomers were living paycheck to paycheck just like the way that more than half the US is living currently, and didn't have the opportunity to put anything away.
Especially if you're not making much more than minimum wage after your company 'downsized'.

Many lost their retirement money through corporate mismanagement, investments that notably went belly up a few years ago, or lost it through outright white collar theft.

Social security simply isn't enough for most people to survive on, and notice I said "survive", not "live comfortably".
 
2014-06-18 04:28:43 AM  

twat_waffle: You do realize that, without Boomers retiring, there won't be any openings for the generation that is entering the workforce, right?


Wow, another person that believes the supply of jobs is a fixed quantity. If no new jobs can ever come into existence, how do you explain the population doubling since around the 1950s but the unemployment rate isn't over 50% of the working age population?
 
2014-06-18 04:48:20 AM  

xria: twat_waffle: You do realize that, without Boomers retiring, there won't be any openings for the generation that is entering the workforce, right?

Wow, another person that believes the supply of jobs is a fixed quantity. If no new jobs can ever come into existence, how do you explain the population doubling since around the 1950s but the unemployment rate isn't over 50% of the working age population?


I realize you tried to sound really smart but you failed.  No one is saying that seniors retiring is the ONLY way new jobs come into being, but the fact of the matter is if a seniors didn't have to to those jobs, they likely wouldn't take those jobs and those jobs would have gone to someone younger.  But seniors are holding off on retirement and the jobs that might otherwise have had to be filled by someone younger are remaining in the hands of seniors.

So because seniors are, in great numbers, unable to retire, younger people have fewer jobs available for them.

Does that help clarify things?
 
2014-06-18 04:51:44 AM  

TommyymmoT: twat_waffle: robohobo: some_beer_drinker: [radicalunjobbing.files.wordpress.com image 452x433]
how many farking times do i have to post this. universal basic income. it's what's right. at least for white people. those brown guys are on their own...

Yeah, good luck with that nonsense. Not even ridiculously left wing countries in Europe have even come close to enacting such wholesale Robin Hooding.

You do realize that, without Boomers retiring, there won't be any openings for the generation that is entering the workforce, right? How are these newly minted adults supposed to go about supporting themselves? Would you rather they become desperate and turn to crime to put food on their tables, roofs over their heads, and clothes on their backs? Do you know what that kind of stuff does to a society and its government? I'll give you two hints: France in 1789 and the Arab Spring.

The deal was this: you put in your 49-42 years of working for a living. You saved money for retirement. Then, you step aside to make room for younger people who are just getting out of school so that they can put their 49-42 years of making a living in. Without the economy adding an entire generation's worth of jobs very quickly, there is just no way to accommodate the extra workers. On top of that, these Boomers are depressing the value of labor by continuing to work.

================

Problem is, most companies don't offer retirement benefits anymore,  and many of the boomers were living paycheck to paycheck just like the way that more than half the US is living currently, and didn't have the opportunity to put anything away.
Especially if you're not making much more than minimum wage after your company 'downsized'.

Many lost their retirement money through corporate mismanagement, investments that notably went belly up a few years ago, or lost it through outright white collar theft.

Social security simply isn't enough for most people to survive on, and notice I said "survive", not "live comfortably".


I wasn't faulting Boomers who can't retire due to financial concerns that are not their fault. Their employers have failed them. I am pissed at the Boomers who have the financial security to retire, but choose not to because they wouldn't know what to do with themselves or some other such nonsense. fark those guys.

The first people against the wall will be corporate CEOs and bankers.
 
2014-06-18 04:58:57 AM  

some_beer_drinker: [radicalunjobbing.files.wordpress.com image 452x433]
how many farking times do i have to post this. universal basic income. it's what's right. at least for white people. those brown guys are on their own...


Humans are herd animals, with a pecking order. They *like* for other people to be poor and miserable - it reaffirms their own status.
 
2014-06-18 05:01:21 AM  

xria: twat_waffle: You do realize that, without Boomers retiring, there won't be any openings for the generation that is entering the workforce, right?

Wow, another person that believes the supply of jobs is a fixed quantity. If no new jobs can ever come into existence, how do you explain the population doubling since around the 1950s but the unemployment rate isn't over 50% of the working age population?


You really need to learn how to only read what someone types. Nice straw man, though.

It is a fact that we will eventually come to a point where we have a Malthusian crisis in the workforce because of things like automation, offshoring, and possibly old people not retiring. What do we, as a society, do at that point? Tell the unfortunate bastards who couldn't find a job that pays a living wage to sod off and die? Do you think that they will gladly comply with such a request? We need to start coming up with an answer to this question now so that we can avoid the massive social upheaval that comes from an impoverished class growing ever faster.
 
2014-06-18 05:03:02 AM  

Foxxinnia: Why everyone doesn't just commit suicide on their 66th birthday is just beyond me at this point.


You might as well.
After 16 years of school to prepare you, and 45 years of work, you are no longer of any use to the plutocracy.

So enjoy that year off, and kill yourself for the benefit of the republic like the good little prole that you were trained since birth to be.
 
2014-06-18 05:04:33 AM  
Could have had an information economy if people decided it all needed to be free, so only a couple of big advertising companies were making money.
 
2014-06-18 05:07:13 AM  

narkor: Could have had an information economy if people decided it all needed to be free, so only a couple of big advertising companies were making money.


90% of the media is owned by just 6 companies.
 
2014-06-18 05:09:59 AM  

twat_waffle: It is a fact that we will eventually come to a point where we have a Malthusian crisis in the workforce because of things like automation, offshoring, and possibly old people not retiring. What do we, as a society, do at that point? Tell the unfortunate bastards who couldn't find a job that pays a living wage to sod off and die? Do you think that they will gladly comply with such a request? We need to start coming up with an answer to this question now so that we can avoid the massive social upheaval that comes from an impoverished class growing ever faster.


We don't find solutions until problems hit a crisis, and even then as often as not the solutions just make it worse or are half-hearted.
 
2014-06-18 05:10:35 AM  
twat_waffle:I wasn't faulting Boomers who can't retire due to financial concerns that are not their fault. Their employers have failed them. I am pissed at the Boomers who have the financial security to retire, but choose not to because they wouldn't know what to do with themselves or some other such nonsense. fark those guys.

Totally! fark those guys who love their jobs, who find meaning in work! How dare they continue to make themselves useful while also finding satisfaction with how they spend their time. Assholes, the lot of them.  How dare they continue to live their lives how they choose! Why we haven't enacted Carousel yet is beyond me.

/or, you know, people who can't afford to have kids should stop having kids, but personal responsibility is such a drag, man.
 
2014-06-18 05:18:53 AM  

fusillade762: He currently contributes 40% of his salary to his 401(k).

Good luck with that.

401(k)s are a sham

Duped by a DIY retirement dream, the elderly now face staggeringly low living standards


Sorry, but I've been assured by right-wingers that individuals will always know how to best use their money, and that we don't need social security or pensions.
 
2014-06-18 05:27:28 AM  

TomD9938: I intend to work until my 71st birthday if my health allows.  I'm 45 now, so retirement will be April of 2040.

That'd mark 50 years in my industry of choice, and while it will be partly out of necessity, it's also because I'm sure I'd quickly die without a reason to get out of bed each morning.

FTA:

Wiley suffered a stroke not long after leaving his job.

This right there.


Is your job something you genuinely enjoy, or are you doing just for the money and having something to occupy you time?
 
2014-06-18 05:35:00 AM  

twat_waffle: robohobo: some_beer_drinker: [radicalunjobbing.files.wordpress.com image 452x433]
how many farking times do i have to post this. universal basic income. it's what's right. at least for white people. those brown guys are on their own...

Yeah, good luck with that nonsense. Not even ridiculously left wing countries in Europe have even come close to enacting such wholesale Robin Hooding.

You do realize that, without Boomers retiring, there won't be any openings for the generation that is entering the workforce, right? How are these newly minted adults supposed to go about supporting themselves? Would you rather they become desperate and turn to crime to put food on their tables, roofs over their heads, and clothes on their backs? Do you know what that kind of stuff does to a society and its government? I'll give you two hints: France in 1789 and the Arab Spring.

The deal was this: you put in your 49-42 years of working for a living. You saved money for retirement. Then, you step aside to make room for younger people who are just getting out of school so that they can put their 49-42 years of making a living in. Without the economy adding an entire generation's worth of jobs very quickly, there is just no way to accommodate the extra workers. On top of that, these Boomers are depressing the value of labor by continuing to work.


"And that companion fact: when a majority of the people are hungry and cold they will take by force what they need. And the little screaming fact that sounds through all history: repression works only to strengthen and knit the repressed. The great owners ignored the three cries of history. The land fell into fewer hands, the number of the dispossessed increased, and every effort of the great owners was directed at repression. The money was spent for arms, for gas to protect the great holdings, and spies were sent to catch the murmuring of revolt so that it might be stamped out. The changing economy was ignored, plans for the change ignored; and only means to destroy revolt were considered, while the causes of revolt went on." -The Grapes of Wrath

We learned this lesson almost a century ago. It seems we must learn it again.
 
2014-06-18 05:35:29 AM  

fusillade762: He currently contributes 40% of his salary to his 401(k).

Good luck with that.

401(k)s are a sham

Duped by a DIY retirement dream, the elderly now face staggeringly low living standards


So they say retirement savings don't work when you don't save much.

Typical Salon article.

Social Security is a sham. The money they take for SS from your check is not enough to pay current retirees, no money is saved for you. It's a tax.
 
2014-06-18 05:38:04 AM  

some_beer_drinker: how many farking times do i have to post this. universal basic income. it's what's right. at least for white people. those brown guys are on their own...


Aka communism.

See 20th century for the fail.
 
2014-06-18 05:39:44 AM  

Shadowe: "And that companion fact: when a majority of the people are hungry and cold they will take by force what they need. And the little screaming fact that sounds through all history: repression works only to strengthen and knit the repressed. The great owners ignored the three cries of history. The land fell into fewer hands, the number of the dispossessed increased, and every effort of the great owners was directed at repression. The money was spent for arms, for gas to protect the great holdings, and spies were sent to catch the murmuring of revolt so that it might be stamped out. The changing economy was ignored, plans for the change ignored; and only means to destroy revolt were considered, while the causes of revolt went on." -The Grapes of Wrath

We learned this lesson almost a century ago. It seems we must learn it again.


It is human folly to forget.
 
2014-06-18 05:42:21 AM  

Shadowe: twat_waffle: robohobo: some_beer_drinker: [radicalunjobbing.files.wordpress.com image 452x433]
how many farking times do i have to post this. universal basic income. it's what's right. at least for white people. those brown guys are on their own...

Yeah, good luck with that nonsense. Not even ridiculously left wing countries in Europe have even come close to enacting such wholesale Robin Hooding.

You do realize that, without Boomers retiring, there won't be any openings for the generation that is entering the workforce, right? How are these newly minted adults supposed to go about supporting themselves? Would you rather they become desperate and turn to crime to put food on their tables, roofs over their heads, and clothes on their backs? Do you know what that kind of stuff does to a society and its government? I'll give you two hints: France in 1789 and the Arab Spring.

The deal was this: you put in your 49-42 years of working for a living. You saved money for retirement. Then, you step aside to make room for younger people who are just getting out of school so that they can put their 49-42 years of making a living in. Without the economy adding an entire generation's worth of jobs very quickly, there is just no way to accommodate the extra workers. On top of that, these Boomers are depressing the value of labor by continuing to work.

"And that companion fact: when a majority of the people are hungry and cold they will take by force what they need. And the little screaming fact that sounds through all history: repression works only to strengthen and knit the repressed. The great owners ignored the three cries of history. The land fell into fewer hands, the number of the dispossessed increased, and every effort of the great owners was directed at repression. The money was spent for arms, for gas to protect the great holdings, and spies were sent to catch the murmuring of revolt so that it might be stamped out. The changing economy was ignored, plans for the change ignored; and only means to destroy revolt were considered, while the causes of revolt went on." -The Grapes of Wrath

We learned this lesson almost a century ago. It seems we must learn it again.


All of this bullshiat aside.....

When you get your first job , do a calculation as to what you need for retirement and what your company is doing to help. And then save even more than that.

Don't count on our idiotic government to come to your rescue, and don't expect normal hardworking people to buy into some communist fantasy because some idiots have a drug problem or live beyond their means, and saved nothing for retirement.
 
2014-06-18 05:49:50 AM  

Animatronik: what your company is doing to help


Oh, that's rich.

Pull the other one. It's got bells on.
 
2014-06-18 06:14:29 AM  
I figure I'll die in the saddle. Which is okay because I like my job and there is a chronic shortage of pediatricians. That and frankly, I don't ever see how I will be able to afford not to work.
 
2014-06-18 06:16:01 AM  

twat_waffle: The first people against the wall will be corporate CEOs and bankers.


No they won't.  If/when it ever gets to the point where people are sharpening pitchforks and lighting torches, their money will have long since been wired to a bank in Switzerland or the Cayman Islands, while they and their families will long since have jetted off to somewhere without an extradition treaty.

/I wouldn't be surprised if some of the private jets parked at Teterboro airport are kept gassed up and ready to roll for just this reason
 
2014-06-18 06:17:43 AM  

Animatronik: Social Security is a sham. The money they take for SS from your check is not enough to pay current retirees, no money is saved for you. It's a tax.

Of course it's a tax.  Have you ever seen a W2 form?  If you've ever worked for a living, you've received one.  It says right there on the form, "Social Security Tax".  Something is a sham because it works exactly as advertised?  Where did you think SS income comes from, a magical piggy bank in the clouds full of rainbows and dreams?
 
2014-06-18 06:20:40 AM  

Ambivalence: xria: twat_waffle: You do realize that, without Boomers retiring, there won't be any openings for the generation that is entering the workforce, right?

Wow, another person that believes the supply of jobs is a fixed quantity. If no new jobs can ever come into existence, how do you explain the population doubling since around the 1950s but the unemployment rate isn't over 50% of the working age population?

I realize you tried to sound really smart but you failed.  No one is saying that seniors retiring is the ONLY way new jobs come into being, but the fact of the matter is if a seniors didn't have to to those jobs, they likely wouldn't take those jobs and those jobs would have gone to someone younger.  But seniors are holding off on retirement and the jobs that might otherwise have had to be filled by someone younger are remaining in the hands of seniors.

So because seniors are, in great numbers, unable to retire, younger people have fewer jobs available for them.

Does that help clarify things?


No
 
2014-06-18 06:53:40 AM  

Shadowe: We learned this lesson almost a century ago. It seems we must learn it again.


We're taught this lesson repeatedly throughout history.  Humans are ADHD, however, and can't remember any lesson longer than a generation or two, so we're doomed to repeat the lesson again.
 
2014-06-18 06:57:45 AM  

Animatronik: some_beer_drinker: how many farking times do i have to post this. universal basic income. it's what's right. at least for white people. those brown guys are on their own...

Aka communism.

See 20th century for the fail.


Communism is government control over the means of production.  It has nothing to do with a universal living wage.  If the government increased taxes and started using the funds to buy their citizens basic food, shelter and maybe some education, this would still fall very much in line with the definition capitalist economy.
 
2014-06-18 06:58:37 AM  

Maturin: I figure I'll die in the saddle. Which is okay because I like my job and there is a chronic shortage of pediatricians. That and frankly, I don't ever see how I will be able to afford not to work.


How would a pediatrician not be able to afford to retire?
 
2014-06-18 06:59:53 AM  

Ambivalence: How would a pediatrician not be able to afford to retire?

The kind that isn't allowed to get within 500 yards of a school.
 
2014-06-18 07:03:10 AM  

Foxxinnia: Why everyone doesn't just commit suicide on their 66th birthday is just beyond me at this point.


Don't worry, if the obesity epidemic continues most Americans under 40 won't make it to 65.
 
2014-06-18 07:05:17 AM  

some_beer_drinker: [radicalunjobbing.files.wordpress.com image 452x433]
how many farking times do i have to post this. universal basic income. it's what's right. at least for white people. those brown guys are on their own...


You are not allowed to be that honest.  I hope basic income comes in for all people of all nations.  But sad to say I do feel that Western countries are probably closer to having a basic income than other countries.
 
2014-06-18 07:06:43 AM  

Wolf892: I'm hoping that not only euthanasia legal in Canada by the time I'm 60 but that it will be so common that we have "suicide booths" straight out of "Futurama" that we can step inside that take us out quick, painlessly and efficiently deal with the body.

If not, the future is a very, very scary place.


There are suicide booths.  They are  called your car and a hose.
 
2014-06-18 07:12:01 AM  

robohobo: Ambivalence: robohobo: Yeah, good luck with that nonsense. Not even ridiculously left wing countries in Europe have even come close to enacting such wholesale Robin Hooding.

Didn't Sweden do it recently?

They tried.


I believe in basic income, but we need to start slowly and set the foundation.

look at why people and businesses would oppose it.

Look at the costs.

Look at our tax system.   A lot of people see tax as a personal savings account with the attitude that I get to pull out this tax (savings) because I worked.    Not as a community fund for the communities benefit.

I do not believe just trying to put a basic income in will work or will be voted in.    We still believe that if a person does not have a paid job that they are a societal leech who does not deserve help until they have added taxes them selves to their own tax saving account.

First line of business would be change how we tax.
 
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