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(Guardian)   If Greenpeace had invested in oil, they wouldn't have lost $5.2 million   (theguardian.com ) divider line
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4211 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Jun 2014 at 4:36 PM (1 year ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-17 03:58:55 PM  
You trust your money to a bunch of hippies, and you are surprised that they squander it?
 
2014-06-17 04:40:32 PM  
Arrrr, PIRATES they be ...
 
2014-06-17 04:42:17 PM  

Lucky LaRue: You trust your money to a bunch of hippies, and you are surprised that they squander it?


that's why ya only throw them a few bucks

 90% of the organisation's funding comes from small donations of less than €100.
 
2014-06-17 04:45:51 PM  
Currency speculation is a stupid / suckers investment.  It's one thing if you're slick and an investment group doing it, but for a "charity" to go at it is just retarded.
 
2014-06-17 04:47:02 PM  

Headso: Lucky LaRue: You trust your money to a bunch of hippies, and you are surprised that they squander it?

that's why ya only throw them a few bucks

 90% of the organisation's funding comes from small donations of less than €100.


They add up.  Their revenue is almost half a billion USD.
 
2014-06-17 04:47:23 PM  
What kind of lousy hippies are these twats? Hippies playing the stock market what a pack of cheap whores.
 
2014-06-17 04:52:20 PM  

Lucky LaRue: You trust your money to a bunch of hippies, and you are surprised that they squander it?


Greenpeace isn't a bunch of hippies any more than Scientology is.

They each have their business plan, and fools who support them.
 
2014-06-17 04:55:19 PM  
Whale oil?
 
2014-06-17 04:57:26 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Currency speculation is a stupid / suckers investment.  It's one thing if you're slick and an investment group doing it, but for a "charity" to go at it is just retarded.


TFA says they need to do something to manage the mismatch between currency of income and currencies of expenditure.

If you want to hedge against future exchange rate movements to guarantee the spending power of future donations - and the exchange creates then move in your favour (strengthening of the Euro in this case) then the hedging instruments will show a corresponding loss. It's a pretty normal business practice.

If that's what happened, Greenpeace hasn't really lost out at all.
 
2014-06-17 04:58:57 PM  

opiumpoopy: Satanic_Hamster: Currency speculation is a stupid / suckers investment.  It's one thing if you're slick and an investment group doing it, but for a "charity" to go at it is just retarded.

TFA says they need to do something to manage the mismatch between currency of income and currencies of expenditure.

If you want to hedge against future exchange rate movements to guarantee the spending power of future donations - and the exchange creates then move in your favour (strengthening of the Euro in this case) then the hedging instruments will show a corresponding loss. It's a pretty normal business practice.

If that's what happened, Greenpeace hasn't really lost out at all.


exchange rates. Damn autocorrect.
 
2014-06-17 05:01:01 PM  

opiumpoopy: Satanic_Hamster: Currency speculation is a stupid / suckers investment.  It's one thing if you're slick and an investment group doing it, but for a "charity" to go at it is just retarded.

TFA says they need to do something to manage the mismatch between currency of income and currencies of expenditure.

If you want to hedge against future exchange rate movements to guarantee the spending power of future donations - and the exchange creates then move in your favour (strengthening of the Euro in this case) then the hedging instruments will show a corresponding loss. It's a pretty normal business practice.

If that's what happened, Greenpeace hasn't really lost out at all.


Uhhh...  At some point, you actually have to honour the hedging contract... So it's probably a real loss...
 
2014-06-17 05:05:21 PM  
Wait a minute, TFA article says they lost money on those contracts because the Euro gained vs. other currencies. That sounds like Greenpeace hedged at least in the proper direction and were not speculating like a riverboat gambler. Because their Euros from donations gained value, they can now have more of the other currencies to spend. Basically, the losses in the contracts were offset by the gains in their Euro donations' value. So those contracts did somewhat what they were supposed to do, which is lock in the value of the euro at the time of their execution. Had the Euros lost value vs. other currencies, those contracts would have made a lot of money but then they wouldn't have as much of other currencies after exchanging for them with Euros.
 
2014-06-17 05:12:48 PM  
I submitted this headline with a better investment portfolio
 
2014-06-17 05:19:52 PM  

hammettman: I submitted this headline with a better investment portfolio


How you doin, Mr. Madoff?
 
2014-06-17 05:24:40 PM  

GasDude: Wait a minute, TFA article says they lost money on those contracts because the Euro gained vs. other currencies. That sounds like Greenpeace hedged at least in the proper direction and were not speculating like a riverboat gambler. Because their Euros from donations gained value, they can now have more of the other currencies to spend. Basically, the losses in the contracts were offset by the gains in their Euro donations' value. So those contracts did somewhat what they were supposed to do, which is lock in the value of the euro at the time of their execution. Had the Euros lost value vs. other currencies, those contracts would have made a lot of money but then they wouldn't have as much of other currencies after exchanging for them with Euros.


They were short-selling Euros, expecting to buy back at a lower exchange rate and take profit.  The Euro strengthened instead, so now they're going to have to buy back those Euros at a higher rate and take a loss.  It's no different than stock speculation.
 
2014-06-17 05:26:29 PM  
If Hitler had invested in Jews, we wouldn't have lost 6 million.

/BOOM godwin
 
2014-06-17 05:46:45 PM  
They were short-selling Euros, expecting to buy back at a lower exchange rate and take profit.  The Euro strengthened instead, so now they're going to have to buy back those Euros at a higher rate and take a loss.  It's no different than stock speculation.

By itself, yes it's speculation. But you have another part of the equation in that their donations are in Euros but they have to spend for their operations with other currencies. So there is an offset to the short-sell loss - more of the other currencies they get for spending due to strengthening in the Euro. Of course, that's assuming if they actually exchange for those other currencies at the time their currency contacts expire. Unfortunately this benefit of getting more of the other currencies is not as easily countable as the published loss from a contract, hence the bad publicity.
 
2014-06-17 06:20:36 PM  
TFA: The organisation invests in property, but says this is only in cases where it is considerably cheaper to buy than to rent, such as in Moscow or London.

Property in London is cheap? Or are rents outrageous?
/discuss
 
2014-06-17 06:49:52 PM  
What Greenpeace needs is an Unethical Fund. As they were explained to me, Unethical Funds are a way for virtuous people to hedge against failure. They invest in companies that do evil and if they lose money, so much the better, but if ethical business practices fail, you make whopping truck-loads of dirty money.

In other words, it is the opposite of an Ethical Fund: you put your money into things you hate. You can't lose either way.

The Roman Catholic Church should never have sold out of condoms. The greens should be heavy into heavy industry, rapine and looting.

I think I would put some money into Justin Bieber going straight and becoming a Bubblegum Christian Pop Singer (again).
 
2014-06-17 08:55:38 PM  
That should get them in the mood to jump in front of whaling ship harpoons.
 
2014-06-17 09:00:55 PM  
They bought contracts that expired without value. Same idea if you buy stock options. If the market moves in your favor you make a significant payback because of leveraging. If not, nada,,,thanx for playing. Most of the time it's nada.
 
2014-06-17 11:02:07 PM  

Farxist Marxist: They bought contracts that expired without value. Same idea if you buy stock options. If the market moves in your favor you make a significant payback because of leveraging. If not, nada,,,thanx for playing. Most of the time it's nada.


They had futures contracts.  They don't "expire without value".  For instance, if you purchase oil futures for June 30, 2014, on June 30, 2014 you will have a bunch of oil.

Same thing here.  They have a bunch of Euros they overpaid for.
 
2014-06-18 12:05:47 AM  

Shazam999: Farxist Marxist: They bought contracts that expired without value. Same idea if you buy stock options. If the market moves in your favor you make a significant payback because of leveraging. If not, nada,,,thanx for playing. Most of the time it's nada.

They had futures contracts.  They don't "expire without value".  For instance, if you purchase oil futures for June 30, 2014, on June 30, 2014 you will have a bunch of oil.

Same thing here.  They have a bunch of Euros they overpaid for.


Without being too pedantic, the premium they paid for being on the wrong side of the tape cost them. If I sold covered calls/puts on a stock and the market moves against me, I can keep the stock by covering the calls/puts. I didn't suggest that they lost their capital, but they lost the cost of the derivative. BTW, I'm assuming that the Guardian have their information correct, and it was in fact exchange contracts and not an employee dumping money into an FX market account, and shorting the Euro at 100:1 leverage. If so, the capital took a hit.
 
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