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(WTKR)   Supreme Court to decide how much you can biatch about your ex-wife on Facebook: "Did you know that it's illegal for me to say I want to kill my wife?"   (wtkr.com) divider line 27
    More: Stupid, Supreme Court, Facebook, Facebook posts, emotional pain, digital age, criminal contempt, true threat  
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563 clicks; posted to Politics » on 17 Jun 2014 at 12:00 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



27 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-06-17 09:02:03 AM  
A little more info.


Among the many alleged threats made by Elonis, he wrote five days after he was fired from Dorney Park that "'Y'all sayin I had access to keys for the all the farkin' gates. ... Y'all think it's too dark and foggy to secure your facility from a man as mad as me? You see, even without a paycheck, I'm still the main attraction. Whoever thought the Halloween Haunt could be so farkin' scary?'" according to court papers.

Elonis also posted - in this instance several days after a judge ordered a PFA in favor of his estranged wife: "'Fold up your PFA and put in your pocket. Is it thick enough to stop a bullet?'"

A day later, Elonis wrote that he might shoot up a kindergarten class: "'I'm checking out and making a name for myself. Enough elementary schools in 10-mile radius to initiate the most heinous school shooting ever imagined. And hell hath no fury like a crazy man in a kindergarten class,'" according to court papers.

After Elonis was visited by FBI agent Denise Stevens, he also posted that it "'took all the strength I had not to turn the biatch ghost. Pull my knife, flick my wrist, and slit her throat. Leave her bleedin' from her jugular in the arms of her partner.'"
 
2014-06-17 09:51:19 AM  

Sybarite: A little more info.


I suppose it's healthy for us to have such assholes testing our fidelity to the Bill of Rights.  Unpleasant, but healthy in the long run.
 
2014-06-17 10:31:50 AM  
This is a tough one.

On one hand, we all have said some things about the idiots around us and what really needs to happen to them.

On the other hand, consistent and constant threats of physical violence towards someone shows possible intent.  Do we let the threats slide until there is an actual attempt or do we stop it before someone is possibly injured.

Based on the "lyrics" from his raps, I would say that he was on the edge of violence.  The simple fact that when called on his threats, he upped the ante and threatened the FBI agent says volumes.
 
2014-06-17 11:14:07 AM  

BizarreMan: Do we let the threats slide until there is an actual attempt or do we stop it before someone is possibly injured.


You don't need an attempt, but you need more than words. Did he own a gun? Did he purchase one recently in connection with his lyrics? We don't punish people for what they might do, just for what they actually did, or can be shown that they were trying to do.

I don't know the full facts of the case, but if it was just posting on his own (and not threatening on somebody else's) page, then I think he gets a walk.
 
2014-06-17 11:44:37 AM  

BizarreMan: On the other hand, consistent and constant threats of physical violence towards someone shows possible intent.


I was under the impression that some psychology experiments had shown that talking about something repeatedly tends to make taking action easier (helping overcome inhibitions); contrariwise, I'm not turning up anything to that effect on Google Scholar.

My own inclination is that some of Sybarite's examples might well fall beyond the Chaplinsky line. In so far as such public expression seems to indicate an intent to coercively shape one's environment by inducing fear in others, they may well constitute "no essential part of any exposition of ideas, and are of such slight social value as a step to truth that any benefit that may be derived from them is clearly outweighed by the social interest in order and morality"; and that some of the threats were apparently directed towards agents of the judiciary itself would seem to leave Elonis on very, very thin ice.
 
2014-06-17 12:02:28 PM  
In one post, Elonis wrote about smothering his wife with a pillow and dumping her body in a creek so it would look like a rape. In another he wrote: "There's one way to love you but a thousand ways to kill you. I'm not going to rest until your body is a mess, soaked in blood and dying from all the little cuts. Hurry up and die, biatch, so I can bust this nut all over your corpse from atop your shallow grave. I used to be a nice guy but then you became a slut. Guess it's not your fault you liked your daddy raped you. So hurry up and die, biatch, so I can forgive you." Link
 
2014-06-17 12:04:12 PM  
is assault considered free speech now?
 
2014-06-17 12:04:14 PM  
I don't want to kill me ex-wife.  I do however wish her all the joys of cancer before having a stroke and living out 20 years in a shell of a body before being eaten alive by fire ants.
 
2014-06-17 12:04:32 PM  
Is it wife, or ex-wife? words have meaning.
 
2014-06-17 12:04:50 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: I don't want to kill me ex-wife.  I do however wish her all the joys of cancer before having a stroke and living out 20 years in a shell of a body before being eaten alive by fire ants.


My, not me.  Fark you retarded fingers and your typo loving demons
 
2014-06-17 12:07:25 PM  

Sybarite: A little more info.


Among the many alleged threats made by Elonis, he wrote five days after he was fired from Dorney Park that "'Y'all sayin I had access to keys for the all the farkin' gates. ... Y'all think it's too dark and foggy to secure your facility from a man as mad as me? You see, even without a paycheck, I'm still the main attraction. Whoever thought the Halloween Haunt could be so farkin' scary?'" according to court papers.

Elonis also posted - in this instance several days after a judge ordered a PFA in favor of his estranged wife: "'Fold up your PFA and put in your pocket. Is it thick enough to stop a bullet?'"

A day later, Elonis wrote that he might shoot up a kindergarten class: "'I'm checking out and making a name for myself. Enough elementary schools in 10-mile radius to initiate the most heinous school shooting ever imagined. And hell hath no fury like a crazy man in a kindergarten class,'" according to court papers.

After Elonis was visited by FBI agent Denise Stevens, he also posted that it "'took all the strength I had not to turn the biatch ghost. Pull my knife, flick my wrist, and slit her throat. Leave her bleedin' from her jugular in the arms of her partner.'"


If this speech falls under "fighting words" doctrine, he'll probably get hammered no matter what. If this speech falls under "imminent lawless action" doctrine, you better believe the cops will be searching his house for evidence that he could carry out some of these threats.
 
2014-06-17 12:10:33 PM  

Serious Black: Sybarite: A little more info.


Among the many alleged threats made by Elonis, he wrote five days after he was fired from Dorney Park that "'Y'all sayin I had access to keys for the all the farkin' gates. ... Y'all think it's too dark and foggy to secure your facility from a man as mad as me? You see, even without a paycheck, I'm still the main attraction. Whoever thought the Halloween Haunt could be so farkin' scary?'" according to court papers.

Elonis also posted - in this instance several days after a judge ordered a PFA in favor of his estranged wife: "'Fold up your PFA and put in your pocket. Is it thick enough to stop a bullet?'"

A day later, Elonis wrote that he might shoot up a kindergarten class: "'I'm checking out and making a name for myself. Enough elementary schools in 10-mile radius to initiate the most heinous school shooting ever imagined. And hell hath no fury like a crazy man in a kindergarten class,'" according to court papers.

After Elonis was visited by FBI agent Denise Stevens, he also posted that it "'took all the strength I had not to turn the biatch ghost. Pull my knife, flick my wrist, and slit her throat. Leave her bleedin' from her jugular in the arms of her partner.'"

If this speech falls under "fighting words" doctrine, he'll probably get hammered no matter what. If this speech falls under "imminent lawless action" doctrine, you better believe the cops will be searching his house for evidence that he could carry out some of these threats.


Yeah, probably not too smart to reference a specific weapon he owns with graphic descriptions of murder.
 
2014-06-17 12:11:12 PM  
img.fark.net
I DIDN'T KILL MY WIFE!
 
2014-06-17 12:13:08 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: In one post, Elonis wrote about smothering his wife with a pillow and dumping her body in a creek so it would look like a rape. In another he wrote: "There's one way to love you but a thousand ways to kill you. I'm not going to rest until your body is a mess, soaked in blood and dying from all the little cuts. Hurry up and die, biatch, so I can bust this nut all over your corpse from atop your shallow grave. I used to be a nice guy but then you became a slut. Guess it's not your fault you liked your daddy raped you. So hurry up and die, biatch, so I can forgive you." Link


Sounds like she should do everybody a favor and invite him over for a little chat. Just a short one, just long enough to get him inside her house. it's too bad he broke in and threatened her, but good thing she had the gun--and no surprise, either, considering how crazy he was acting, and how many times he'd threatened her.
 
2014-06-17 12:13:13 PM  

UrukHaiGuyz: Serious Black: Sybarite: A little more info.


Among the many alleged threats made by Elonis, he wrote five days after he was fired from Dorney Park that "'Y'all sayin I had access to keys for the all the farkin' gates. ... Y'all think it's too dark and foggy to secure your facility from a man as mad as me? You see, even without a paycheck, I'm still the main attraction. Whoever thought the Halloween Haunt could be so farkin' scary?'" according to court papers.

Elonis also posted - in this instance several days after a judge ordered a PFA in favor of his estranged wife: "'Fold up your PFA and put in your pocket. Is it thick enough to stop a bullet?'"

A day later, Elonis wrote that he might shoot up a kindergarten class: "'I'm checking out and making a name for myself. Enough elementary schools in 10-mile radius to initiate the most heinous school shooting ever imagined. And hell hath no fury like a crazy man in a kindergarten class,'" according to court papers.

After Elonis was visited by FBI agent Denise Stevens, he also posted that it "'took all the strength I had not to turn the biatch ghost. Pull my knife, flick my wrist, and slit her throat. Leave her bleedin' from her jugular in the arms of her partner.'"

If this speech falls under "fighting words" doctrine, he'll probably get hammered no matter what. If this speech falls under "imminent lawless action" doctrine, you better believe the cops will be searching his house for evidence that he could carry out some of these threats.

Yeah, probably not too smart to reference a specific weapon he owns with graphic descriptions of murder.


Of a federal agent, no less.
 
2014-06-17 12:15:06 PM  
I'm mad happy as hell, and I'm going to take it some more.

At best people will say nice things to you before they do horrible things to you. Is that a step up?
 
2014-06-17 12:15:08 PM  
I will kill you all!

 lol. j/k.
 
2014-06-17 12:19:36 PM  
I am really struggling to figure out how they ever seperated.  Going by averages, must have been money problems.
 
2014-06-17 12:22:03 PM  

Sneakernets: [img.fark.net image 601x340]
I DIDN'T KILL MY WIFE!


It was the three legged man!
 
2014-06-17 12:29:30 PM  

Serious Black: If this speech falls under "fighting words" doctrine, he'll probably get hammered no matter what. If this speech falls under "imminent lawless action" doctrine, you better believe the cops will be searching his house for evidence that he could carry out some of these threats.


As a practical matter, I'm not sure how much "fighting words" gets followed anymore.  It's still a thing, but the threshold for applying it has effectively gotten higher and higher over the years since it was implemented.  It's not clear these qualify, especially since they weren't face-to-face or anything.  "Say taht too my face farker not online and c wat happens" is quite clearly an "unabiguous invitation to a brawl," as the Court put it, but it's remote enough that it isn't really "fighting words."  The same thing takes away from the imminence of the lawless action, for obvious reasons.  If he said "I'm outside your house, you'd better get a gun ready," that would be different.  His biggest problem is the True Threats doctrine.

abb3w: My own inclination is that some of Sybarite's examples might well fall beyond the Chaplinsky line. In so far as such public expression seems to indicate an intent to coercively shape one's environment by inducing fear in others, they may well constitute "no essential part of any exposition of ideas, and are of such slight social value as a step to truth that any benefit that may be derived from them is clearly outweighed by the social interest in order and morality"; and that some of the threats were apparently directed towards agents of the judiciary itself would seem to leave Elonis on very, very thin ice.


That's the vibe I'm getting too.  This is pretty fare beyond the pale of accepted speech, and even though I consider myself a very strong proponent of the 1st Amendment, these kinds of public pronouncements, with the kind of consistency they show, seem to be pretty unambiguous statements of intent.  The threats were certainly sufficient to get a restraining order, and the way he started in about how it can't and won't keep her or the judge safe from him seems to go past simple venting.
 
2014-06-17 12:38:55 PM  

DarnoKonrad: is assault considered free speech now?


That is a good question.  It is a strong expression of your feelings.
 
2014-06-17 12:47:28 PM  
How Our Government's Behavior Post 9-11 Has Thoroughly Trashed the First Amendment

Almost 13 years after the 9/11 attacks, it remains "wartime." For the war on terror, the driver, excuse, and raison d'être for the tattering of the Bill of Rights, there is no end in sight. Recently retired NSA head Keith Alexander is typical of key figures in the national security state when he claims that despite, well, everything, the country is at greater risk today than ever before. These days, wartime is forever, which means that a government working ever more in secret has ever more latitude to decide which rights in which form applied in what manner are still inalienable.
 
2014-06-17 12:56:14 PM  
With an ever increasing population that is easily offended,  that is, offended enough to sue, badger, hound, harass anyone they dislike for having opinions that are not their own, I strongly doubt that any speech will be protected inside and after 20 years of time.

Yes, in 20 years, saying you eat red meat could get you a ticket. Sounds stupid, right? Just wait.

This country already has free speech zones, so it is not much of a stretch to assume that in due course of time, all speech will not regulated and carefully doled out on a case-by-case basis.

Sure, say what you want inside your home, but free speech is dead.
 
2014-06-17 12:59:54 PM  
Farking dangit...."...all speech will not be protected, rather strictly regulated and carefully doled out on a case-by-case basis."


tl;dr only the rich and special interest groups will have speech and the poor will remain too poor to protect their speech.      Just like now! Except more booty to the heady in times to come.
 
2014-06-17 01:43:41 PM  
Did he remember to type "jk!" at the end of each post?  No?  Then he is screwed.
 
2014-06-18 01:16:02 AM  

Sybarite: A little more info.


Among the many alleged threats made by Elonis, he wrote five days after he was fired from Dorney Park that "'Y'all sayin I had access to keys for the all the farkin' gates. ... Y'all think it's too dark and foggy to secure your facility from a man as mad as me? You see, even without a paycheck, I'm still the main attraction. Whoever thought the Halloween Haunt could be so farkin' scary?'" according to court papers.

Elonis also posted - in this instance several days after a judge ordered a PFA in favor of his estranged wife: "'Fold up your PFA and put in your pocket. Is it thick enough to stop a bullet?'"

A day later, Elonis wrote that he might shoot up a kindergarten class: "'I'm checking out and making a name for myself. Enough elementary schools in 10-mile radius to initiate the most heinous school shooting ever imagined. And hell hath no fury like a crazy man in a kindergarten class,'" according to court papers.

After Elonis was visited by FBI agent Denise Stevens, he also posted that it "'took all the strength I had not to turn the biatch ghost. Pull my knife, flick my wrist, and slit her throat. Leave her bleedin' from her jugular in the arms of her partner.'"


Yep, those are pretty illegal.
 
2014-06-18 11:05:36 AM  
I'm currently going round and round with Facebook's compliance department.

Short story, bro: A friend of mine filed for divorce. His wife wouldn't sign. Friend committed suicide. Wife cremated him (even though his family had a plot and wished to bury him). Wife deactivated his Facebook page out of spite. Family petitioned Facebook to turn his Facebook page into a memorial page. Facebook did so for 2 days until the wife found out. Wife deleted his Facebook page.
 
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