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(CNBC)   GM recalls another 3.19 million cars, bringing the total number of recalled vehicles to approximately eleventy brazillian   (cnbc.com) divider line 86
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3368 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jun 2014 at 8:01 PM (10 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-16 05:40:58 PM
GM Has Recalled More Cars Than Americans Bought In 2013

I think GM needs to just give up, lock the doors, and go home.
 
2014-06-16 05:50:45 PM
This is why capping penalties is a bad idea.
 
2014-06-16 07:13:14 PM
GM said the same engineer designed all the switches in the problematic vehicles, for a total of 5.95 million recalls. The car maker fired switch designer Ray DeGiorgio after an earlier recall of 2.59 million small GM cars.

So are there no checks and balances or redundancies built into the design and construction process? How could one engineer\s work go untested into millions of cars without being detected?
 
2014-06-16 07:15:41 PM
Eleventy brazillian? Wax on, wax off.
 
2014-06-16 07:40:22 PM
What a helpful article.  How about listing the new recalls?
 
2014-06-16 07:50:02 PM

miss diminutive: So are there no checks and balances or redundancies built into the design and construction process? How could one engineer\s work go untested into millions of cars without being detected?


I've had the exact same thought. And also, how did this guy manage to get a job and stay employed if he couldn't properly design such a basic, simple component (every vehicle produced in the past 100 years has had some sort of ignition switch). But as we've seen from the epidemic of recalls in recent years (not only GM, but Toyota, Ford, Chrysler, Honda, etc.) the manufacturers' focus seems to be on cost-cutting and covering up defects rather than making safe, reliable vehicles for their customers.
 
2014-06-16 08:03:32 PM

timujin: What a helpful article.  How about listing the new recalls?


No joke. I guess it's a good thing I don't drive a Cobalt.
 
2014-06-16 08:05:19 PM
Eleven brazilian dollars later: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/30/us-autos-gm-treasury-idUSBR E A3T0MR20140430
/Let's give the government MORE money, shall we?
 
2014-06-16 08:06:44 PM

Narrator: "A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one."


Business woman on plane: "Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents?"


Narrator: "You wouldn't believe."


Business woman on plane: "Which car company do you work for?"


Narrator: "A major one. **GM**"


i6.photobucket.com
 
2014-06-16 08:07:10 PM

miss diminutive: GM said the same engineer designed all the switches in the problematic vehicles, for a total of 5.95 million recalls. The car maker fired switch designer Ray DeGiorgio after an earlier recall of 2.59 million small GM cars.

So are there no checks and balances or redundancies built into the design and construction process? How could one engineer\s work go untested into millions of cars without being detected?


It's been proven that they did know about it, they changed the springs to be stronger but did not change the part number.
 
2014-06-16 08:08:09 PM
What happens to all these recalled vehicles anyway? Are they scrapped, fixed, sold to unwitting nations or something else? Seriously I have no idea but that is a lot of vehicular mass to become unusable.
 
2014-06-16 08:09:01 PM
I'm betting that every car GM releases for model year 2016 and later is going to have a "push to start" button.  No more turning your key to turn the vehicle on and off.
 
2014-06-16 08:10:33 PM

timujin: What a helpful article.  How about listing the new recalls?


Quicker to list the models not yet recalled.
 
2014-06-16 08:10:48 PM

berylman: What happens to all these recalled vehicles anyway? Are they scrapped, fixed, sold to unwitting nations or something else? Seriously I have no idea but that is a lot of vehicular mass to become unusable.


1) drive vehicle to GM dealership
2) have ignition switch replaced
3) eat free cookies and donuts in waiting room


/not sure if real or just stupid...
 
2014-06-16 08:11:25 PM
"GM said the same engineer designed all the switches in the problematic vehicles, for a total of 5.95 million recalls."

Fall guy. He probably got fired . Then a long lost uncle from Kamchatka left him a fortune in Fabergé eggs.
 
2014-06-16 08:13:11 PM

Dinjiin: berylman: What happens to all these recalled vehicles anyway? Are they scrapped, fixed, sold to unwitting nations or something else? Seriously I have no idea but that is a lot of vehicular mass to become unusable.

1) drive vehicle to GM dealership
2) have ignition switch replaced
3) eat free cookies and donuts in waiting room


/not sure if real or just stupid...


With words like "unwitting nations" and "vehicular mass" I thought it was an oblique reference to how cars cause global warming or some other hipster political statement.
 
2014-06-16 08:15:14 PM

berylman: What happens to all these recalled vehicles anyway? Are they scrapped, fixed, sold to unwitting nations or something else? Seriously I have no idea but that is a lot of vehicular mass to become unusable.


o_O

They fix them so the customer can keep driving them?
 
2014-06-16 08:16:15 PM
How come nobody is willing to put blame on the people driving the cars as the real issue here.

I mean I get my car shouldn't turn off because I bump the steering column the wrong way, but at the same time, if my car turning off unexpected is enough to cause me to lose control and be in a fatal accident, lets face it, I'm one hell of a crappy driver and I was probably going to kill someone at some point anyway.
 
2014-06-16 08:19:14 PM

reported: miss diminutive: So are there no checks and balances or redundancies built into the design and construction process? How could one engineer\s work go untested into millions of cars without being detected?


I've had the exact same thought. And also, how did this guy manage to get a job and stay employed if he couldn't properly design such a basic, simple component (every vehicle produced in the past 100 years has had some sort of ignition switch). But as we've seen from the epidemic of recalls in recent years (not only GM, but Toyota, Ford, Chrysler, Honda, etc.) the manufacturers' focus seems to be on cost-cutting and covering up defects rather than making safe, reliable vehicles for their customers.


He did. But they make millions of cars, which they sell to millions of people. Many of those millions of people aren't all to bright, and will do something that nobody anticipated. Even then, maybe this was caught in testing at some point, and they said, "Well come on, it isn't like because someone accidently turns off the car they are suddenly going to go screaming to their death, right? I mean, they will have the common sense to just turn it back on or hit the brakes"
 
2014-06-16 08:22:34 PM
That's another 3 million people drawn onto dealership lots, given complimentary coffee and sales pitched at.
 
2014-06-16 08:27:23 PM

LineNoise: How come nobody is willing to put blame on the people driving the cars as the real issue here.

I mean I get my car shouldn't turn off because I bump the steering column the wrong way, but at the same time, if my car turning off unexpected is enough to cause me to lose control and be in a fatal accident, lets face it, I'm one hell of a crappy driver and I was probably going to kill someone at some point anyway.


You're assuming that because it happened to a small percentage of drivers, and a small percentage are idiots, that it only happens to idiots. But what we would need to know before passing judgement is what percentage of people that it happened to crashed. If most of them crashed, then probably you don't understand the situation enough to call the victims crappy drivers.
 
2014-06-16 08:31:24 PM

itcamefromschenectady: If most of them crashed, then probably you don't understand the situation enough to call the victims crappy drivers.


Your absolutely right. But if a crash happened to people in anything approaching the majority of the time, it clearly isn't happening very often, again, seeing as there are literally millions of these cars puttering about at any given time. If the problem is happening with any frequency, well, that tells us most drivers aren't having wrecks because of it, and in many of those cases, driver error is going to play a role.

I mean lets face it, we all know someone who when a car does something slightly unexpected, will just freak the fark out.
 
2014-06-16 08:36:32 PM
I just traded in my 2005 Cobalt for a 2014 Impala.  Never had a problem with the ignition switch, and thought the Cobalt was a nice small car.  It was dependable, and never gave me any trouble.
 
2014-06-16 08:36:50 PM
 GM knew about it for years and knew it was a problem...... and to fix it.... they redesigned the part. THAT part  is good.
The bad part is that to hide what they knew was a problem, the redesigned part was assigned the same part number in an damn-near successful attempt to hide the problem.

The real scandal is that GM is arguing that the problem happened during the OLD pre-bankruptcy GM days, and that they have no real responsibility since they're now a different GM. They're only fixing the switches out of the kindness of their hearts since the new GM can't be sued for the actions of the OLD GM. Also note that the evil switch designer didn't get fired until GM got caught.

http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/1403-gm-immune-to-old-ign it ion-switch-lawsuits/
 
2014-06-16 08:41:42 PM

eventhelosers: miss diminutive: GM said the same engineer designed all the switches in the problematic vehicles, for a total of 5.95 million recalls. The car maker fired switch designer Ray DeGiorgio after an earlier recall of 2.59 million small GM cars.

So are there no checks and balances or redundancies built into the design and construction process? How could one engineer\s work go untested into millions of cars without being detected?

It's been proven that they did know about it, they changed the springs to be stronger but did not change the part number.


The issue is that the switch only fails if you jam your knee into it. How frequently do you jam your knee into an ignition switch? How frequently do you think a manufacturer says "gee what if someone knees the ignition switch?"

Not saying this shouldn't have been recalled, but there are some things that get past testing because no one is like "gee you know our drivers are just that dumb."
 
2014-06-16 08:49:19 PM

Kit Fister: eventhelosers: miss diminutive: GM said the same engineer designed all the switches in the problematic vehicles, for a total of 5.95 million recalls. The car maker fired switch designer Ray DeGiorgio after an earlier recall of 2.59 million small GM cars.

So are there no checks and balances or redundancies built into the design and construction process? How could one engineer\s work go untested into millions of cars without being detected?

It's been proven that they did know about it, they changed the springs to be stronger but did not change the part number.

The issue is that the switch only fails if you jam your knee into it. How frequently do you jam your knee into an ignition switch? How frequently do you think a manufacturer says "gee what if someone knees the ignition switch?"

Not saying this shouldn't have been recalled, but there are some things that get past testing because no one is like "gee you know our drivers are just that dumb."


My understanding was that it could fail if you had too many things on your keyring and they were recommending people drive with only their ignition key and nothing else.
 
2014-06-16 08:49:33 PM

eventhelosers: miss diminutive: GM said the same engineer designed all the switches in the problematic vehicles, for a total of 5.95 million recalls. The car maker fired switch designer Ray DeGiorgio after an earlier recall of 2.59 million small GM cars.

So are there no checks and balances or redundancies built into the design and construction process? How could one engineer\s work go untested into millions of cars without being detected?

It's been proven that they did know about it, they changed the springs to be stronger but did not change the part number.


I'm very sure they knew.  A buddy of mine is a retired GM engineer, he's been telling me stories of how he tested crap other engineers had done and it either just gets passed on to production or he had to really battle to get the design fixed.  It's how I knew GM intentionally went ahead with putting the piece of crap motor known as the 3.4L LA1 V6 in the Venture I had bought brand new.  That was an example of something that got approved without his say.  He had a story of trying to fix a design he had tested and the original engineer on the project acted like my friend was just out to ruin his career.  I think they found a solution on that item, despite the childish temper tantrum.

/I heard most of his stories before the recalls.

ununcle: "GM said the same engineer designed all the switches in the problematic vehicles, for a total of 5.95 million recalls."

Fall guy. He probably got fired . Then a long lost uncle from Kamchatka left him a fortune in Fabergé eggs.


I would say he's a fall guy alright, as other engineers to test behind the lead designer, but when GM screws someone they stayed screwed.
 
2014-06-16 08:51:34 PM

miss diminutive: GM said the same engineer designed all the switches in the problematic vehicles, for a total of 5.95 million recalls. The car maker fired switch designer Ray DeGiorgio after an earlier recall of 2.59 million small GM cars.

So are there no checks and balances or redundancies built into the design and construction process? How could one engineer\s work go untested into millions of cars without being detected?


Because scapegoat.
 
2014-06-16 08:51:50 PM

Kit Fister: eventhelosers: miss diminutive: GM said the same engineer designed all the switches in the problematic vehicles, for a total of 5.95 million recalls. The car maker fired switch designer Ray DeGiorgio after an earlier recall of 2.59 million small GM cars.

So are there no checks and balances or redundancies built into the design and construction process? How could one engineer\s work go untested into millions of cars without being detected?

It's been proven that they did know about it, they changed the springs to be stronger but did not change the part number.

The issue is that the switch only fails if you jam your knee into it. How frequently do you jam your knee into an ignition switch? How frequently do you think a manufacturer says "gee what if someone knees the ignition switch?"

Not saying this shouldn't have been recalled, but there are some things that get past testing because no one is like "gee you know our drivers are just that dumb."


It has nothing to do with "jamming a knee into the switch", per se, but more along the lines of operational cycles before failure, the amount of force it should be able to withstand, etc.

Take the doors, for example.  How often do you attempt to get t-boned?  I would imagine not much, yet the doors are engineered to withstand X-amount of force before allowing intrusion into the cabin.  I don't remember the force calculations, but trust me, the amount they have to withstand before allowing 6" of intrusion is several thousand pounds.
 
2014-06-16 08:54:14 PM

berylman: What happens to all these recalled vehicles anyway? Are they scrapped, fixed, sold to unwitting nations or something else? Seriously I have no idea but that is a lot of vehicular mass to become unusable.


They recall them to fix the problem, and then give them back to you.
 
2014-06-16 08:54:36 PM

Kit Fister: The issue is that the switch only fails if you jam your knee into it.


That isn't what was happening. The weight of the keychain cause the switches to click back one notch into the Accessory position due to insufficient ball detent tension and to the angle of the key in the On position whenever the vehicles hit a bump big enough to jar and bounce the keychain.
 
2014-06-16 08:54:38 PM

miss diminutive: GM said the same engineer designed all the switches in the problematic vehicles, for a total of 5.95 million recalls. The car maker fired switch designer Ray DeGiorgio after an earlier recall of 2.59 million small GM cars.

So are there no checks and balances or redundancies built into the design and construction process? How could one engineer\s work go untested into millions of cars without being detected?


His official job title was "Scapegoat".
 
2014-06-16 08:56:36 PM
What eleventy Brazillians might look like.

img.fark.net
 
2014-06-16 08:58:19 PM
I'm drunk and therefore have selective reading.

Now what's this about 11 bras?
 
2014-06-16 08:59:14 PM

ElLoco: Kit Fister: The issue is that the switch only fails if you jam your knee into it.

That isn't what was happening. The weight of the keychain cause the switches to click back one notch into the Accessory position due to insufficient ball detent tension and to the angle of the key in the On position whenever the vehicles hit a bump big enough to jar and bounce the keychain.


Ahh, okay.
 
2014-06-16 09:00:35 PM
Kit Fister:

Not saying this shouldn't have been recalled, but there are some things that get past testing because no one is like "gee you know our drivers are just that dumb."

 Honestly, GM is the first company that comes to mind when I picture an executive saying that.
 
2014-06-16 09:07:35 PM

Kit Fister: ElLoco: Kit Fister: The issue is that the switch only fails if you jam your knee into it.

That isn't what was happening. The weight of the keychain cause the switches to click back one notch into the Accessory position due to insufficient ball detent tension and to the angle of the key in the On position whenever the vehicles hit a bump big enough to jar and bounce the keychain.

Ahh, okay.


If that happened to me, I think I would instinctively turn the key to try to restart the engine. So I think there must be more to it.
 
2014-06-16 09:15:44 PM

Lokkii: GM knew about it for years and knew it was a problem...... and to fix it.... they redesigned the part. THAT part  is good.
The bad part is that to hide what they knew was a problem, the redesigned part was assigned the same part number in an damn-near successful attempt to hide the problem.

The real scandal is that GM is arguing that the problem happened during the OLD pre-bankruptcy GM days, and that they have no real responsibility since they're now a different GM. They're only fixing the switches out of the kindness of their hearts since the new GM can't be sued for the actions of the OLD GM. Also note that the evil switch designer didn't get fired until GM got caught.

http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/1403-gm-immune-to-old-ign it ion-switch-lawsuits/


Please baby, come back.  I'm not the same as I used to be.  I've changed!!

/no.
 
2014-06-16 09:16:56 PM

Kit Fister: eventhelosers: miss diminutive: GM said the same engineer designed all the switches in the problematic vehicles, for a total of 5.95 million recalls. The car maker fired switch designer Ray DeGiorgio after an earlier recall of 2.59 million small GM cars.

So are there no checks and balances or redundancies built into the design and construction process? How could one engineer\s work go untested into millions of cars without being detected?

It's been proven that they did know about it, they changed the springs to be stronger but did not change the part number.

The issue is that the switch only fails if you jam your knee into it. How frequently do you jam your knee into an ignition switch? How frequently do you think a manufacturer says "gee what if someone knees the ignition switch?"

Not saying this shouldn't have been recalled, but there are some things that get past testing because no one is like "gee you know our drivers are just that dumb."


As a former engineers assistant ... the bulk of engineering cost goes into engineering around stupidity.
 
2014-06-16 09:18:04 PM
At this rate... Why are GM cars even allowed on our roadways?
 
2014-06-16 09:19:03 PM

Kit Fister: eventhelosers: miss diminutive: GM said the same engineer designed all the switches in the problematic vehicles, for a total of 5.95 million recalls. The car maker fired switch designer Ray DeGiorgio after an earlier recall of 2.59 million small GM cars.

So are there no checks and balances or redundancies built into the design and construction process? How could one engineer\s work go untested into millions of cars without being detected?

It's been proven that they did know about it, they changed the springs to be stronger but did not change the part number.

The issue is that the switch only fails if you jam your knee into it. How frequently do you jam your knee into an ignition switch? How frequently do you think a manufacturer says "gee what if someone knees the ignition switch?"

Not saying this shouldn't have been recalled, but there are some things that get past testing because no one is like "gee you know our drivers are just that dumb."


To me not making sure a switch can't be bumped off easily is dumb, especially with the resources available to GM.
 
2014-06-16 09:22:42 PM
i1257.photobucket.com
 
2014-06-16 09:30:53 PM
I was just used car shopping this last weekend and all the cheapest deals seemed to be Chevy Cobalts.
 
2014-06-16 09:33:38 PM

CAPTIAN SLAPPY: [i1257.photobucket.com image 850x565]


Is that a sheet covering a corpse with blood flowing across the road in bottom left?
 
2014-06-16 09:34:10 PM
Does this recall include my '76 Chevy Vega?
 
2014-06-16 09:34:24 PM
This is what happens when you don't have driver's education in schools.

/serpentine belt failed on me this winter, and it was difficult to get to safety
 
2014-06-16 09:39:27 PM

Dinjiin: berylman: What happens to all these recalled vehicles anyway? Are they scrapped, fixed, sold to unwitting nations or something else? Seriously I have no idea but that is a lot of vehicular mass to become unusable.

1) drive vehicle to GM dealership
2) have ignition switch replaced
3) eat free cookies and donuts in waiting room


/not sure if real or just stupid...


Have them throw in the oil change and inspection.

/Second trip; they replaced my ignition with a bad ignition switch
theandroidsite.com
 
2014-06-16 09:43:59 PM

miss diminutive: GM said the same engineer designed all the switches in the problematic vehicles, for a total of 5.95 million recalls. The car maker fired switch designer Ray DeGiorgio after an earlier recall of 2.59 million small GM cars.

So are there no checks and balances or redundancies built into the design and construction process? How could one engineer\s work go untested into millions of cars without being detected?


It was detected lots of times when lawsuits were filed

It was cheaper in the short run to pay a few tens of millions to settle the suits than to pay for millions of recall repairs
 
2014-06-16 09:44:55 PM

itcamefromschenectady: Kit Fister: ElLoco: Kit Fister: The issue is that the switch only fails if you jam your knee into it.

That isn't what was happening. The weight of the keychain cause the switches to click back one notch into the Accessory position due to insufficient ball detent tension and to the angle of the key in the On position whenever the vehicles hit a bump big enough to jar and bounce the keychain.

Ahh, okay.

If that happened to me, I think I would instinctively turn the key to try to restart the engine. So I think there must be more to it.


There is, if you had too many keys (or bumped the ignition switch) it could not only turn off the ignition but rotate the switch far enough back to lock the steering wheel, I had this happen to me once while driving my sisters car (her keyring must have 30 keys on 4 interlocked hoop rings) hit a bump, car shuts off and steering wheel locked, luckily I was driving in the late evening, light traffic, on a straight road or I might have wrecked and I have over 30 years driving experience including a Mack million mile safe driver award


/Imagine driving 60 on a busy road when you suddenly lose engine power, brake assist and your steering locks then get back to me on how much of an idiot ya have to be to wreck...
 
2014-06-16 09:49:02 PM

The Numbers: timujin: What a helpful article.  How about listing the new recalls?

Quicker to list the models not yet recalled.


Indeed.  And, here's the list:
 
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