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(CNN)   Why won't we help Iraq? Iran won't let them let us   (globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com) divider line 99
    More: Asinine, Prime Minister Nuri, Fareed Zakaria GPS, Zakaria, Fareed Zakaria, Fareed, Maliki, U.S. military  
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1379 clicks; posted to Politics » on 16 Jun 2014 at 2:57 PM (12 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-16 12:23:44 PM
You mean to say that Iran won't allow Iraq to be helped by the US? That's not really true. Iran didn't want US soldiers to stick around. Iran can't say shiat about the US coming in to help right now.

I would have preferred to see a small American force left in Iraq to try to prevent the country's collapse.

...says a guy that is not serving in the US military and has no children in the US military.

Maliki said he wanted us out completely. It's his farking country. We were there for 8 years and 8 months. If the Iraq army couldn't get their shiat together in that time, then fark them right in their incompetent asses.

It's time for America to stop sucking off of the oil teat so we can let the tribal savages destroy each other and we can sit back and not have it affect us in any way.
 
2014-06-16 12:41:10 PM
Shows how much times have changed. That was Iran in 2011, but Iran today may actually  team up with the US to fight ISIS.
 
2014-06-16 01:14:25 PM

Rincewind53: Iran today may actually  team up with the US to fight ISIS.


I expect some behind the scenes cooperation is probably already happening. But it would look bad for both if it was out in the open.
 
2014-06-16 01:19:25 PM

Rincewind53: Shows how much times have changed. That was Iran in 2011, but Iran today may actually  team up with the US to fight ISIS.


ISIS is a Suni organization. Iran and the current Iraqi government are Shia and have excluded the Sunis from it.  It's a holy war to them.  I don't doubt that ISIS is being funded by the Saudi's(Suni).  I don't see any reason to help either side.
 
2014-06-16 01:24:48 PM
Nuke 'em both
 
2014-06-16 01:30:27 PM
"what about the Obama administration and its decision to withdraw all American forces from the country by the end of 2011? "

What?  Jesus, dude... simply look at the White House Website from 2008.  It's even got the farking letter head that says, PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH:

img.fark.net
 
2014-06-16 02:11:09 PM
We should not take sides in the Sunni-Shia civil war.
 
2014-06-16 02:20:05 PM
claresauntie.typepad.com

Understands the frustration.

Seriously, though, this is looking more and more like there's going to be Kurdistan in the North, Sunni Iraq in the West, and Shia Iraq in the South as three separate nations. And I'm okay with that. I just wonder how well the governments are going to treat their people, because the ISIS folk don't seem like very nice people.
 
2014-06-16 03:03:29 PM
I think we've "helped" Iraq enough.
 
2014-06-16 03:04:17 PM
oldernell:Iran and the current Iraqi government are Shia and have excluded the Sunis from it.  It's a holy war to them.  I don't doubt that ISIS is being funded by the Saudi's(Suni).  I don't see any reason to help either side.

From what I've read, there was a trove of files found on a dead ISIS higher-up a couple days before everything went to hell that explained a lot of their financing. Believe it or not, they're mostly self-made. They did get start-up money from a some wealthy individuals (Kuwaiti and Saudi, so you're not really wrong) but they've also made a lot of cash from their own operations. Syria had a lot of antiquities that they looted and sold illicitly to collectors, and they've also captured areas of Syria that produced oil and sold that. Plus there are heists like this weekend when capturing Mosul came with control of all the money in the banks there.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/15/iraq-isis-arrest-jihadi st s-wealth-power
 
2014-06-16 03:06:11 PM

nmrsnr: [claresauntie.typepad.com image 500x253]

Understands the frustration.

Seriously, though, this is looking more and more like there's going to be Kurdistan in the North, Sunni Iraq in the West, and Shia Iraq in the South as three separate nations. And I'm okay with that. I just wonder how well the governments are going to treat their people, because the ISIS folk don't seem like very nice people.


Of course, what's going to be really fun is if Kurdistan then attacks Turkey for control of the kurdish parts of turkey-

Since Turkey is NATO.

THAT'S gonna be a wonderful clusterfark.
 
2014-06-16 03:08:13 PM
Let'm own it. Seriously. Let them bleed and pay the cost.
 
2014-06-16 03:11:00 PM
Let the Middle East have their own adventures.  We've had enough adventures there.
 
2014-06-16 03:12:44 PM
Zakaria initially supported the 2003 invasion of Iraq. He said at the time, "The place is so dysfunctional... any stirring of the pot is good. America's involvement in the region is for the good."

Yeah. How's that stirring the pot working out for you and your fellow Foreign Affairs journal employees?
 
2014-06-16 03:15:01 PM
From the 1953 coup of Iran, the 1979 Iran hostage crisis, backing the Mujahideen against the Soviets in Afghanistan, as well as Saddam Hussein in Iraq's war against Iran, and the completely one-sided support of Israel, 9/11 was the culmination of decades of America dicking around with the Middle East.
 
2014-06-16 03:18:54 PM
Every time we have gotten involved in a military fashion with a country in the middle east, no matter what our noble goal was, has ended in unmitigated failure. I'm sure this time would be different...
 
2014-06-16 03:32:24 PM
Yeah, I have an idea. Let's fix our own problems in our own country first, and let them fix their problems themselves.
 
2014-06-16 03:37:47 PM
A bit of truth for your Monday...Link
 
2014-06-16 03:38:09 PM

nmrsnr: [claresauntie.typepad.com image 500x253]

Understands the frustration.

Seriously, though, this is looking more and more like there's going to be Kurdistan in the North, Sunni Iraq in the West, and Shia Iraq in the South as three separate nations. And I'm okay with that. I just wonder how well the governments are going to treat their people, because the ISIS folk don't seem like very nice people.


HahahahaLolololokekekhuehuehuehue. Thinking that Arabs can think rationally and can compromise? Go to www.bestgore.com and search ISIS. Listen to ISIS in their own words (English subtitles). It's total fanaticism. All or nothing. Fight to the death death death.
 
2014-06-16 03:38:37 PM

Lando Lincoln: tribal savages


Fark this attitude.  This isn't savagery, it's stupid local politics combined with violence.
 
2014-06-16 03:41:53 PM

Bith Set Me Up: From the 1953 coup of Iran, the 1979 Iran hostage crisis, backing the Mujahideen against the Soviets in Afghanistan, as well as Saddam Hussein in Iraq's war against Iran, and the completely one-sided support of Israel, 9/11 was the culmination of decades of America dicking around with the Middle East.


And yet we still won't repent. Instead, we will double down. So that the soldiers who died and got parapalegic didn't do so in vain even if they did.
 
2014-06-16 03:42:22 PM
Give it time. Between ISIS and the Taliban, there isn't a theocratic terroristic organization Obama hasn't helped out.
 
2014-06-16 03:42:59 PM

ikanreed: Lando Lincoln: tribal savages

Fark this attitude.  This isn't savagery, it's stupid local politics religious fanaticism combined with violence.


FTFY.
 
2014-06-16 03:44:50 PM

1derful: Give it time. Between ISIS and the Taliban, there isn't a theocratic terroristic organization Obama hasn't helped out.


Not forgetting he negotiated with the GOP.
 
2014-06-16 03:45:58 PM

1derful: Give it time. Between ISIS and the Taliban, there isn't a theocratic terroristic organization Obama hasn't helped out.


Luckily, Republicans are now openly calling for an alliance with our good friends, The Islamic Republic of Iran.

//Glad the Republicans have America's back.
 
2014-06-16 03:48:10 PM

ikanreed: Lando Lincoln: tribal savages

Fark this attitude.  This isn't savagery, it's stupid local politics combined with violence.


Are you saying that most of their stupid problems aren't religiously / tribally motivated?
 
2014-06-16 03:48:59 PM

Kevin72: ikanreed: Lando Lincoln: tribal savages

Fark this attitude.  This isn't savagery, it's stupid local politics religious fanaticism combined with violence.

FTFY.


There's more than a little of that, but fanaticism only acts as a "flavor enhancer" to whatever local power struggles are going down.

//Religion: the MSG of politics
 
2014-06-16 03:49:24 PM

1derful: Give it time. Between ISIS and the Taliban, there isn't a theocratic terroristic organization Obama hasn't helped out.


He hasn't extended a hand to the Tea Party yet.
 
2014-06-16 03:51:38 PM
Dear Iran,

Remember that war you had with Iraq a few years?  Guess what? You won! Your prize is the entire country of Iraq.  Congratulations!

*throws Iraq at Iran and runs away*
 
2014-06-16 03:54:21 PM
So Republicans, now you want us to spend more lives and treasure fighting in Iraq then what is the plan you want?  Do you want us helping Iran fighting ISIS, do you want us helping ISIS fighting Iran or do you want us to take over Iraq with a permanent occupying force and fight everyone.

There is literally no other alternative for sending more troops into Iraq.

If you can't answer that simple question than sit down, shut up and let the adults work this out.
 
2014-06-16 03:56:25 PM

ikanreed: Kevin72: ikanreed: Lando Lincoln: tribal savages

Fark this attitude.  This isn't savagery, it's stupid local politics religious fanaticism combined with violence.

FTFY.

There's more than a little of that, but fanaticism only acts as a "flavor enhancer" to whatever local power struggles are going down.

//Religion: the MSG of politics


I'm afraid that in your imagination you are Americanizing "those people".
 
2014-06-16 03:58:47 PM

Lando Lincoln: Are you saying that most of their stupid problems aren't religiously / tribally motivated?


I was objecting to the "savages" part because it pretends that these aren't people acting in what they, as rationally as they can, imagine as their own self-interest.  Religion plays a part in every bit of human stupidity, and as analysis goes, I usually set it aside.

"Tribal" is just another way of saying "relating to localized, traditionalist power structures."   You could throw the terms "warlord" or "regionalist" pretty similarly, and not actually end up saying anything different.

Whereas "savage" means "neocolonialist dehumanization for the sake of simplicity"
 
2014-06-16 04:01:04 PM

Kevin72: I'm afraid that in your imagination you are Americanizing "those people".


No.  I'm not.  I don't tend to perceive the American religious fanatics attacking and killing people on a wide scale.  I'm not sure where you got that notion, other than wanting me to do that, to be honest.  Could you clarify?
 
2014-06-16 04:10:58 PM
We don't need to deal with Iraq anymore, Cheney made enough money.
 
2014-06-16 04:14:05 PM
If we are at war with al qaeda, then where they are congregating is irrelevant.

Aren't we supposed to kill them where they stand, or do Democrats have a soft spot in their hearts for them now? And don't even tell me that Obama is going to arrest ISIS and bring legal charges and they'll have their day in court, like progs pretended he was going to do against the Benghazi terrorists.
 
2014-06-16 04:16:17 PM

vernonFL: We should not take sides in the Sunni-Shia civil war.


Thisthisthisthisthis.
 
2014-06-16 04:19:23 PM

Felgraf: nmrsnr: [claresauntie.typepad.com image 500x253]

Understands the frustration.

Seriously, though, this is looking more and more like there's going to be Kurdistan in the North, Sunni Iraq in the West, and Shia Iraq in the South as three separate nations. And I'm okay with that. I just wonder how well the governments are going to treat their people, because the ISIS folk don't seem like very nice people.

Of course, what's going to be really fun is if Kurdistan then attacks Turkey for control of the kurdish parts of turkey-

Since Turkey is NATO.

THAT'S gonna be a wonderful clusterfark.


We've been helping Turkey beat up their Kurds for a long time.
 
2014-06-16 04:20:22 PM

Geotpf: vernonFL: We should not take sides in the Sunni-Shia civil war.

Thisthisthisthisthis.


But what if our media frames it as a Syrian outsider vs. democracy war?  Then should we stay out?
 
2014-06-16 04:23:32 PM

ikanreed: Kevin72: I'm afraid that in your imagination you are Americanizing "those people".

No.  I'm not.  I don't tend to perceive the American religious fanatics attacking and killing people on a wide scale.  I'm not sure where you got that notion, other than wanting me to do that, to be honest.  Could you clarify?


It's now doubly difficult, because in you are, in your own words, conflating American religious fanatics with the middle east breed of religious fanatics.
 
2014-06-16 04:26:00 PM

Noam Chimpsky: Aren't we supposed to kill them where they stand, or do Democrats have a soft spot in their hearts for them now?


Yeah, just like our Democratic President who said that he didn't care about the guy who orchestrated 9/11 and invaded the wrong country and there were 15 times the embassy deaths under his watch than Bengazi. Farking democrats.
 
2014-06-16 04:28:59 PM
We must join with them, Obama. We must join with Iran. It would be wise, my friend.

/Nah really, they're Persians, we should be friends.
 
2014-06-16 04:31:04 PM

Noam Chimpsky: If we are at war with al qaeda, then where they are congregating is irrelevant.

Aren't we supposed to kill them where they stand, or do Democrats have a soft spot in their hearts for them now? And don't even tell me that Obama is going to arrest ISIS and bring legal charges and they'll have their day in court, like progs pretended he was going to do against the Benghazi terrorists.


How naïve.

Bombing ISIS in Iraq directly helps the Ayatollahs. How exactly does that help American National Interests? FARKING please show your work.

Seriously, folks. Looking for a legit argument for America supporting Iran here. Help me out.
 
2014-06-16 04:31:48 PM
Is it wrong of me for not really caring, and reasoning that as long as they are focusing on killing each other they will be distracted from wanting to kill me?
 
2014-06-16 04:34:21 PM
The mistake by Republicans - and it is one they make in all sorts of situations - is that they confuse a desire for small government and more individual freedom with a government that acts like an individual. They project onto government the desires and fears that animate a person; in the imagination of Republicans "the government" wants all kinds of things: your guns, for instance. And when Republicans have one of their own in the White House, it pleases them to think that he doesn't just represent the country but is the country.
 
2014-06-16 04:37:34 PM

Kevin72: It's now doubly difficult, because in you are, in your own words, conflating American religious fanatics with the middle east breed of religious fanatics.


So... repeat the charge.  I'm not sure that helps me be more reasonable, but okay.  Have a nice day.
 
2014-06-16 04:40:26 PM
www.hotflick.net
 
2014-06-16 04:42:45 PM

ReverendJynxed: [www.hotflick.net image 640x346]


www.flickchart.com
 
2014-06-16 04:55:21 PM

ikanreed: Whereas "savage" means "neocolonialist dehumanization for the sake of simplicity"


Oh, good, the PC-word-police are here to tell us to use nicer terms when describing people who execute thousands of unarmed captives because religion.
 
2014-06-16 05:00:19 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!: Noam Chimpsky: If we are at war with al qaeda, then where they are congregating is irrelevant.

Aren't we supposed to kill them where they stand, or do Democrats have a soft spot in their hearts for them now? And don't even tell me that Obama is going to arrest ISIS and bring legal charges and they'll have their day in court, like progs pretended he was going to do against the Benghazi terrorists.

How naïve.

Bombing ISIS in Iraq directly helps the Ayatollahs. How exactly does that help American National Interests? FARKING please show your work.


images1.hellotrade.com

Seriously, folks. Looking for a legit argument for America supporting Iran here. Help me out.

Well, from an emotional level, I'd want to just to give the finger to Israel and Saudi Arabia, but let's not get emotional.

I DO believe however that there could be much to be gained long term in fostering better relations with Iran (if they could be done in such a manner that doesn't already upset our "allies" in the region, and this very well could be that incident (depending on the type of "help" we provide.. just blowin' shiat up would just make the sunnis that hate us hate us even more)
 
2014-06-16 05:01:06 PM

GoldSpider: ikanreed: Whereas "savage" means "neocolonialist dehumanization for the sake of simplicity"

Oh, good, the PC-word-police are here to tell us to use nicer terms when describing people who execute thousands of unarmed captives because religion.


No, I'm telling you you're intentionally refusing to understand the situation because it helps you feel smug and distant to how things actually happen, and that your attitude is one of a mental child.
 
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