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(Politico)   Why the GOP is in far more trouble than you realized   (politico.com) divider line 77
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5358 clicks; posted to Politics » on 16 Jun 2014 at 1:21 PM (11 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-16 10:20:43 AM
Because Libertarianism is a stupid, broken philosophy and the populism of the Tea Party is less the populism of Thomas Jefferson and more the populism Benito Mussolini?

/although to be fair a lot of Jefferson's ideas about economics were shiat too.
 
2014-06-16 10:42:20 AM
AMUSING tag was unavailable, subby?
 
2014-06-16 10:46:17 AM
Because the GOP has been acting like a bunch of sniveling, petulant little children since 1994?
 
2014-06-16 11:29:59 AM

IgG4: Because the GOP has been acting like a bunch of sniveling, petulant little children since 1994?


We have SO much to thank Newt Gingrich for. When he dies I hope his grave is near where I live, and publicly accessible. I plan to "water" the grass regularly.
 
2014-06-16 11:32:40 AM

MrBallou: IgG4: Because the GOP has been acting like a bunch of sniveling, petulant little children since 1994?

We have SO much to thank Newt Gingrich for. When he dies I hope his grave is near where I live, and publicly accessible. I plan to "water" the grass regularly.



I'll provide fertilizer
 
2014-06-16 11:43:46 AM
Huh... Priebus was channeling Baghdad Bob yesterday

/EVERYTHING IS UNDER CONTROL
 
2014-06-16 12:07:37 PM

the_celt: MrBallou: IgG4: Because the GOP has been acting like a bunch of sniveling, petulant little children since 1994?

We have SO much to thank Newt Gingrich for. When he dies I hope his grave is near where I live, and publicly accessible. I plan to "water" the grass regularly.


I'll provide fertilizer


They may as well make his headstone into a marble replica of the mens' room.  That way, socially conservative supporters can celebrate his memory with a wide stance.  Everyone would be happy except for the groundskeepers.
 
2014-06-16 12:44:10 PM
FTFA:   In short, the real argument of today's Jeffersonian populists is not with the Chamber of Commerce or the Business Roundtable. It is with modernity.


In other words, the tea party is full of old people reminiscing over the onions on their belts and yelling at clouds.
 
2014-06-16 12:58:41 PM

Voiceofreason01: Because Libertarianism is a stupid, broken philosophy and the populism of the Tea Party is less the populism of Thomas Jefferson and more the populism Benito Mussolini?

/although to be fair a lot of Jefferson's ideas about economics were shiat too.


Says you.  Of course, there's only one philosophy that is intelligent and correct on Fark so whatever.

Bart is no more of a libertarian than Rand Paul...which is to say that they may espouse some libertarian ideals, but they're still Republicans at heart.  The anti-crony capitalism platform should be more popular than it is...because it's a game both parties play.

I'm going to grab some popcorn while the GOP shreds itself from within as the moderates and social far-righters beat each other up.
 
2014-06-16 01:10:00 PM

slayer199: I'm going to grab some popcorn while the GOP shreds itself from within as the moderates and social far-righters beat each other up.


Huh?  Moderates?  In the modern GOP?   It's less likely than you think . . .
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-06-16 01:20:15 PM

Speaker2Animals: AMUSING tag was unavailable, subby?


No, I just thought "cool" was rubbing salt into the wound.
 
2014-06-16 01:25:23 PM
This deep-red, immigrant-hating Virginia district represents itself, not anything important.
 
2014-06-16 01:28:50 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Huh... Priebus was channeling Baghdad Bob yesterday

/EVERYTHING IS UNDER CONTROL


Some times I lie awake at night and wonder if Michael Steele spends his days giggling about what Reince has to deal with on a daily basis.
 
2014-06-16 01:29:00 PM
Because they rely heavily on internal polling to anticipate problems while simultaneously refusing to learn from previous mistakes?
 
2014-06-16 01:29:02 PM
I'll believe the GOP is in trouble when some electoral consequences start showing up. I'm not holding my breath.
 
2014-06-16 01:29:31 PM

slayer199: Bart is no more of a libertarian than Rand Paul...which is to say that they may espouse some libertarian ideals, but they're still Republicans at heart.


To be fair, there are many different variations of Libertarianism, and Bart and Paul both fit the descriptors of one or two of those varying sub-branches. So I don't think it's fair to say they aren't Libertarians, only Republicans with some Libertarian ideals, because some very prominent versions of Libertarianism *are* modern Republicanism. It's like a "no true Scotsman" thing. They may not be your brand of Libertarian, but they are still Libertarian. The label is quite broad, in reality.
 
2014-06-16 01:30:43 PM
The Democrats are the ideal party for big business.  Nobody should be shocked by this.  The GOP's pro-market ideas, with which they're unduly associated, are attractive for someone who wants to work hard to advance, and reap the benefits of that hard work in the long haul.  But once you've "made it," your incentive is in creating barriers to entry for potential competitors.  The Dems' regulatory state is the perfect protectionist racket for established business interests.  The establishment GOP pays lipservice to market principles, but they're all too quick to act pro-business.  But if the businesses aren't getting their loving from the GOP, they'll turn to the Democrats all too happily.
 
2014-06-16 01:30:58 PM
I sure hope the good guys who want to cut taxes and privatize everything defeat those crazy bastards who want to cut taxes and privatize everything.

Oh, and...

media.salon.com
 
2014-06-16 01:33:42 PM
The Frankenstein the GOP built has turned on them and is now out of their control.
//Where is my shocked face?
 
2014-06-16 01:34:43 PM

Cletus C.: This deep-red, immigrant-hating Virginia district represents itself, not anything important.


Really? Which GOP platform position do they disagree with?
 
2014-06-16 01:34:48 PM

IgG4: Because the GOP has been acting like a bunch of sniveling, petulant little children since 1994?


Try 1974. The modern GOP was largely formed from the sore losers of the '60s.
 
2014-06-16 01:35:39 PM
establishment republicans want to destroy the middle class like thiiis....and teabaggers want to destroy the middle class like thiissssss. See how they are completely different?
 
2014-06-16 01:40:02 PM
fark Republicans.
 
2014-06-16 01:41:27 PM
i.imgur.com
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-06-16 01:41:55 PM
The GOP is in the position of the man in the proverb who rides a tiger, or holds a wolf by the ears.  Once a demagogue loses control of his suckers then he has nothing.

The party will either be taken over by the people who Lee Atwater called "extra chromosome" Republicans, (The ones who  make up the majority of the party now) or it will break away and form a third party. The other factions of the GOP will either defect to the Democrats or try to form their own party and hope they can grab enough moderates from the Democrats to survive.
 
2014-06-16 01:43:26 PM

MrBallou: IgG4: Because the GOP has been acting like a bunch of sniveling, petulant little children since 1994?

We have SO much to thank Newt Gingrich for. When he dies I hope his grave is near where I live, and publicly accessible. I plan to "water" the grass regularly.


Erect a statue by his grave and feed the birds.  Feed them well.
 
2014-06-16 01:44:12 PM
But they aren't in trouble at all.

They have a majority in the House, a majority of governors, a majority of state legislatures, and have at least a 50% chance of retaking the Senate in November.  That is not a party in decline, as much as I and many others posting here wish it was.

Now, in the long term, they will have problems.  But not from internal strife, but merely due to demographics (minorities have more babies per person than whites, and minorities tend to vote for Democrats).  But in the short and medium term, they are doing fine.
 
2014-06-16 01:44:35 PM

the_celt: MrBallou: IgG4: Because the GOP has been acting like a bunch of sniveling, petulant little children since 1994?

We have SO much to thank Newt Gingrich for. When he dies I hope his grave is near where I live, and publicly accessible. I plan to "water" the grass regularly.


I'll provide fertilizer


You guys can do your sissy gardening. I'm going to piss and shiat on it.
 
2014-06-16 01:45:10 PM

The Why Not Guy: Cletus C.: This deep-red, immigrant-hating Virginia district represents itself, not anything important.

Really? Which GOP platform position do they disagree with?


The Don't Elect Tea Party Candidates platform.
 
2014-06-16 01:45:10 PM

Jackson Herring: [i.imgur.com image 850x949]


so awesome.
 
2014-06-16 01:57:36 PM

19 Kilo: Because they rely heavily on internal polling to anticipate problems while simultaneously refusing to learn from previous mistakes?


And they seem to have the absolute worst pollsters ever.
 
2014-06-16 01:58:24 PM

Cletus C.: This deep-red, immigrant-hating Virginia district represents itself, not anything important.


Where immigration reform has a 65% approval rating? That district which has a Republican +10 count? That's deep red?  Where Cantor had a 70% disapproval rating because he spent all his time with lobbyist instead of his constituents? Like election day where he had a breakfast with the CoC instead of, you know, being in his district?
That place with open voting in the primaries where the previous Democratic seat holder encouraged people to vote for Brat?
 
2014-06-16 02:01:16 PM
"Scary" tag?

"Crony" capitalism?
 
2014-06-16 02:01:53 PM
Geotpf:
Now, in the long term, they will have problems.  But not from internal strife, but merely due to demographics (minorities have more babies per person than whites, and minorities tend to vote for Democrats).  But in the short and medium term, they are doing fine.

No, they have short term problems. Name the last thing those chuckleheads managed to accomplish. Now, name something on their docket that won't be overturned by existing jurist-prudence in Federal court, and/or doesn't require a constitutional amendment?

I'll wait.
 
2014-06-16 02:02:11 PM

Geotpf: But they aren't in trouble at all.

They have a majority in the House, a majority of governors, a majority of state legislatures, and have at least a 50% chance of retaking the Senate in November.  That is not a party in decline, as much as I and many others posting here wish it was.

Now, in the long term, they will have problems.  But not from internal strife, but merely due to demographics (minorities have more babies per person than whites, and minorities tend to vote for Democrats).  But in the short and medium term, they are doing fine.


Yeah, this. Similarly, the Democrats are in good shape in the long term, but in the short and medium term, a single misstep could result in - again - full GOP control of all elective branches of government. Deep down, they're as aware of the long-term trends as everyone else (regardless of what many of us think, the people at the helm of the GOP are not stupid; you simply do not rise to that level of power politics by being stupid), which just means that they have no reason not to go full scorched-earth policy, should they get the chance.

We've seen how much traction they can gain by taking actions they know the next administration must deal with and poison-pilling things with sunset provisions (like the tax cuts, nicely timed to occur right before the first midterm elections of whoever was elected President in 2008; either way, it could be used as a campaign issue), so I don't see any reason they wouldn't poison the well as thoroughly as they could, should the American people be stupid, short-sighted, and historically uneducated enough to put them back in power.
 
2014-06-16 02:02:16 PM

DarkLancelot: 19 Kilo: Because they rely heavily on internal polling to anticipate problems while simultaneously refusing to learn from previous mistakes?

And they seem to have the absolute worst pollsters ever.


The main problem is that they keep using Republican math, which is at odds with traditional mathematics.  Additionally they seem unable to use polling sources outside their purview without attempting to unskew them.
 
2014-06-16 02:02:32 PM

Jackson Herring: [i.imgur.com image 850x949]


dont do that.  stahp.
 
2014-06-16 02:06:35 PM

Witty_Retort: Cletus C.: This deep-red, immigrant-hating Virginia district represents itself, not anything important.

Where immigration reform has a 65% approval rating? That district which has a Republican +10 count? That's deep red?  Where Cantor had a 70% disapproval rating because he spent all his time with lobbyist instead of his constituents? Like election day where he had a breakfast with the CoC instead of, you know, being in his district?
That place with open voting in the primaries where the previous Democratic seat holder encouraged people to vote for Brat?


All politics is local.  Pretty interesting district, Richmond suburbs to rural central Va.  He may simply have not taken his opponent seriously.  It happens.
 
2014-06-16 02:06:59 PM

Cletus C.: The Don't Elect Tea Party Candidates platform.


Yeah, whatever. You're trying to paint this as an isolated fringe event, but this district doesn't disagree with the "mainstream" GOP on any major policy point.
 
2014-06-16 02:07:12 PM
Because the reductionism of the platform, and regressive policies that have been proven to be not just fallible, but outright dangerous to our economic security and undermine our foreign policy to the point of absurdity, has reached a point where a lot of states have to gerrymander to a ridiculous degree in order to mitigate the flood of folks who are fleeing the party, just to get out of the way of the Idiot Brigade's cheering? That the rubes are beginning to smell what the Kochs are cooking? That betting on idiots may get you some seats, but you can't bet on them voting for anything remotely coherent? That betting on financial fictions, and using captive journals doesn't actually make the policies any more responsive to the real world? The Religious Right is getting more and more foamy as they realize that even other Christians think they're kind of dicks, and that the Catholics are starting to get leery of their "support" as well? Because betting on the old white vote is getting less and less sure, as folks die off, and the nation is heading towards the point where Caucasians are going to make up less than 50% of the population soon?

Stop me any time here Smitty, because as someone who was a Republican for a long time, the bets on the Idiot Brigade and the intellectually disingenuous Neo-Cons have made me turn from the party in disgust, and unless the party puts up actual candidates, as opposed to placard holders for focus groups to punch in public policy, don't plan on getting me back any time soon. The turn towards radicals, and the fringe elements of the party as the "base" has indeed gotten some stuff done, and it's exactly the sort of thing that a lot of us feared would happen if we put anything in their hands, so I guess, congrats go to the party leadership on fulfilling those fears so well...
 
2014-06-16 02:07:25 PM

Evil Twin Skippy: Geotpf:
Now, in the long term, they will have problems.  But not from internal strife, but merely due to demographics (minorities have more babies per person than whites, and minorities tend to vote for Democrats).  But in the short and medium term, they are doing fine.

No, they have short term problems. Name the last thing those chuckleheads managed to accomplish. Now, name something on their docket that won't be overturned by existing jurist-prudence in Federal court, and/or doesn't require a constitutional amendment?

I'll wait.


If the Hobby Lobby case goes the way most observers expect it will, they'll have gotten a Supreme Court precedent for a) religious beliefs on the part of an organization and b) a potential religious exemption to any law.

If the NRLB case goes the wrong way, they'll have gotten a Supreme Court precedent that nullifies the President's power to appoint candidates to federal positions.

They've gotten a Supreme Court precedent that local government can, in fact, endorse a specific religion.

They've successfully gotten the Ryan Budget as the baseline for any future budget considerations.

Sure, the only thing that was affirmatively acted upon by elected Republicans was the last one, but to say that we haven't seen a pile of GOP policy enacted into law (especially by state or local governments) or affirmed by the Supreme Court in recent years is inaccurate.
 
2014-06-16 02:09:38 PM
From Brat's website:   Adding millions of workers to the labor market will force wages to fall and jobs to be lost.

I agree with the first part of the statement, but the second part makes me want to see where he got his economics PhD.
 
2014-06-16 02:13:36 PM
The GOP is not in trouble as long as it appeals to neo-confederates. It's our nation as a united country that is in big trouble.
 
2014-06-16 02:15:15 PM

Galloping Galoshes: From Brat's website:   Adding millions of workers to the labor market will force wages to fall and jobs to be lost.

I agree with the first part of the statement, but the second part makes me want to see where he got his economics PhD.


If you don't believe that workers should have the right to band together to demand higher wages from employers, it follows just fine.

Of course, one wonders how a "libertarian" would even think that workers are not entitled to full market information in the first place. One also might wonder if such a person, faced with this logic puzzle, might consider that the countering force to wages bottoming out is to encourage unionization.

But that would assume that such a person is not blinkered by ideology.
 
2014-06-16 02:15:36 PM

qorkfiend: Geotpf: But they aren't in trouble at all.

They have a majority in the House, a majority of governors, a majority of state legislatures, and have at least a 50% chance of retaking the Senate in November.  That is not a party in decline, as much as I and many others posting here wish it was.

Yeah, this. Similarly, the Democrats are in good shape in the long term, but in the short and medium term, a single misstep could result in - again - full GOP control of all elective branches of government.


Thirded. I just don't see the GOP losing control (electoral, vocal, financial, whatever) for a long time yet. At least past 2016, probably 2020, maybe even longer.
 
2014-06-16 02:18:26 PM
We only need a one party system anyway.
 
2014-06-16 02:23:32 PM

Galloping Galoshes: Witty_Retort: Cletus C.: This deep-red, immigrant-hating Virginia district represents itself, not anything important.

Where immigration reform has a 65% approval rating? That district which has a Republican +10 count? That's deep red?  Where Cantor had a 70% disapproval rating because he spent all his time with lobbyist instead of his constituents? Like election day where he had a breakfast with the CoC instead of, you know, being in his district?
That place with open voting in the primaries where the previous Democratic seat holder encouraged people to vote for Brat?

All politics is local.  Pretty interesting district, Richmond suburbs to rural central Va.  He may simply have not taken his opponent seriously.  It happens.


All races everywhere now have money thrown into them by people from all over the world. Politics is now national, everywhere, every time. Yay, Citizens United.
 
2014-06-16 02:23:42 PM
The last time the conservatives were for something that surely benefited America was the Eisenhower Interstate Highway Initiative. The one thing that conservatives were passionately in favor of after that was staying in the Vietnam war and if you disagreed, you were a commie pinko dopesmoking hippie peacenik. And of course virulently supporting Bush/Cheney's disaster in Iraq.

s25.postimg.org
picture sharing
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-06-16 02:26:20 PM
Geotpf:

Now, in the long term, they will have problems.  But not from internal strife, but merely due to demographics (minorities have more babies per person than whites, and minorities tend to vote for Democrats).  But in the short and medium term, they are doing fine.

No, they have problems now.   From internal strife.

Most of representatives in the House have an R by their name but they aren't on the same side any more than saying that both sides of the Iraqi civil war are on the same side because both the Sunnis and shiites are Iraqis.

All republicans are RINOs now.
 
2014-06-16 02:29:50 PM

Cyberluddite: Huh? Moderates? In the modern GOP? It's less likely than you think . . .


They're aren't many...but they may be emboldened now.  It wasn't that long ago that they were labled RINOs for being moderates...

I have little hope that the GOP will be anything more than a marginalized party in the next 10 years.
 
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