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(USA Today)   Charles Barkley believes it would be turruble if the Miami Heat signed Carmelo Anthony   (ftw.usatoday.com) divider line 44
    More: Interesting, Carmelo Anthony, Miami Heat, Melo, Dwyane Wade, mobile web, San Antonio Spurs, LeBron James, NBA  
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771 clicks; posted to Sports » on 16 Jun 2014 at 4:53 PM (5 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-16 03:43:29 PM
I bet Carmelo either stays in NY or goes to Chicago.
 
2014-06-16 04:59:05 PM
Well, for Miami it would be.  For the rest of us it'd be hi-larious.
 
2014-06-16 05:00:19 PM
And as a two time Finals champion, Barkley would know about winning it all.
 
2014-06-16 05:00:50 PM
How would Melo's ball hog isolation style help the Heat?  Well if he can't help them on offense he can surely chip in with his shut down defense and fantastic rebounding.  Right?
 
2014-06-16 05:01:19 PM
If they can pull it off, I have no issue with it.

They need more than just one scorer though.

Do you think the Thunder beat the Heat this year if they come out of the West?
 
2014-06-16 05:01:40 PM

spman: I bet Carmelo either stays in NY or goes to Chicago.


Oy.  I don't know how excited I should be about that.
 
2014-06-16 05:02:53 PM

elguerodiablo: How would Melo's ball hog isolation style help the Heat?  Well if he can't help them on offense he can surely chip in with his shut down defense and fantastic rebounding.  Right?


Chris Bosh completely changed his game when he went to Miami. Why do we think Melo would be any different?

Who is the best team mate Melo has had in his career?
 
2014-06-16 05:02:58 PM
If they can put Melo in a system similar to the national team, it would be a great fit (disregarding salary cap implications)
 
2014-06-16 05:06:38 PM
The Heat can have Melo, but they must also agree to be owned by James Dolan in the process.
 
2014-06-16 05:08:06 PM
Melo doesn't play any system besides the Melo System*, doesn't he?

/*The Melo System consists of taking every shot but none of the blame
 
2014-06-16 05:09:23 PM

robsul82: spman: I bet Carmelo either stays in NY or goes to Chicago.

Oy.  I don't know how excited I should be about that.


No. No, no,no,no. No.
 
2014-06-16 05:13:53 PM

Gunny Highway: elguerodiablo: How would Melo's ball hog isolation style help the Heat?  Well if he can't help them on offense he can surely chip in with his shut down defense and fantastic rebounding.  Right?

Chris Bosh completely changed his game when he went to Miami. Why do we think Melo would be any different?

Who is the best team mate Melo has had in his career?


Iverson. Lolz.
 
2014-06-16 05:17:23 PM
Why doesn't EVERYONE want Melo? I mean, he's one of the best ball-hogs in the league. Who wouldn't want a guy who will jack up 30+ a night whether they're falling or not? Looking at the last several championship teams, it's clear that star-focused "me" ball is the formula for success in the NBA.
 
2014-06-16 05:22:24 PM
Well, he's right.
 
2014-06-16 05:22:35 PM

drew46n2: Why doesn't EVERYONE want Melo? I mean, he's one of the best ball-hogs in the league. Who wouldn't want a guy who will jack up 30+ a night whether they're falling or not? Looking at the last several championship teams, it's clear that star-focused "me" ball is the formula for success in the NBA.


You're right. Melo to Lakers. They'd be unstoppable.
 
2014-06-16 05:22:47 PM
Unrelated, but did he ever walk back his full-throated endorsement of the Heat in the Finals? Something along the lines of, "San Antonio was a busted AC away from being swept."
 
2014-06-16 05:23:43 PM
The Heat can score alright, they just got smoked on defense. Melo and LeBron are both best as smallball 4s. He gets bashed so much he's getting underrated but I don't think there are many worse places for Melo than Miami.
 
2014-06-16 05:24:01 PM
So Lebron plays the 3, with touches of the 4 and 2.

So does Melo.

So do you want Lebron or Melo at the 4 all year?

Does that win a championship?

/I say no
 
2014-06-16 05:25:49 PM

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Melo doesn't play any system besides the Melo System*, doesn't he?

/*The Melo System consists of taking every shot but none of the blame


You think he would shoot the way he does if he was playing with James and Bosh?

He is getting older and I have no trouble imaging him working into a system in Miami if he were to go there. We don't know who their bench players would be so it is hard to say if they are a championship squad by adding Melo alone. I think this series proved they need a big and a PG desperately.
 
2014-06-16 05:27:30 PM

you have pee hands: The Heat can score alright, they just got smoked on defense. Melo and LeBron are both best as smallball 4s. He gets bashed so much he's getting underrated but I don't think there are many worse places for Melo than Miami.


The guy had a sick year this season.
 
2014-06-16 05:33:06 PM

Gunny Highway: I think this series proved they need a big and a PG desperately.


You think Chalmers, blessed be his name, is insufficient?
 
2014-06-16 05:34:56 PM

skinink: And as a two time Finals champion, Barkley would know about winning it all.


That has a certain ring to it ...
 
2014-06-16 05:51:37 PM
I think he can make like $30M+ more by staying in NY than going elsewhere. That is a lot to pass up.
 
2014-06-16 05:54:28 PM

LemSkroob: I think he can make like $30M+ more by staying in NY than going elsewhere. That is a lot to pass up.


It is.  Playing another year with that Knicks lineup could take years off his life though.
 
2014-06-16 05:58:15 PM
Gunny Highway: If they can pull it off, I have no issue with it.

They need more than just one scorer though.

Do you think the Thunder beat the Heat this year if they come out of the West?


i don't- i just think the thunder don't match up well with the.  i see them as still one or two players away.


now, do Duncan and Pop come back?   timmy didn't even seem spent in the finals...he looked pretty fresh.  i think this team could go back to back.
 
2014-06-16 06:13:34 PM
That wouldn't help address the issues faced by the Heat at all. Might try getting someone young with some talent since they don't have any of those on the roster.
 
2014-06-16 06:27:34 PM

robsul82: spman: I bet Carmelo either stays in NY or goes to Chicago.

Oy.  I don't know how excited I should be about that.


They have to do something. Even a healthy Rose isn't enough, and he may ever be 100% again. Otherwise it's going to be "lose to the Heat" every year. Chicago has had great bench depth and one of the best coaches in the league. They need a legit superstar to compliment Rose, and Melo's probably the closest thing available.
 
2014-06-16 07:03:06 PM

skinink: And as a two time Finals champion, Barkley would know about winning it all.


Its not fair to say that only those who've experienced success would have applicable knowledge.
Failure gives as much knowledge (in fact moreso) as someone who had was able to skate unimpeded to a goal.
 
2014-06-16 07:15:23 PM

Orgasmatron138: They need a legit superstar to compliment Rose, and Melo's probably the closest thing available.

That's pretty pathetic considering Melo is nowhere near close to a "legit" superstar.

To be as fair as possible, I think he's misunderstood.  People say he's a cancer but I don't know any player who spoke ill of his conduct in the locker room, and it was Melo of all people who pushed for Jeremy Lin's playing time.  They say he's a ball-hog but he's very consistently averaged 3apg in his career; this is on par with a prolific finisher, about the same as Kevin Durant or Karl Malone.  They say he doesn't try but he averaged 8rpg last season and rebound are largely (albeit far from completely) an effort thing.  No, Melo isn't nearly the ball-hogging dickwad the media makes him out to be.  The problem with Melo is that he's stupid.

He's a streetballer -- not in any "thugball" or "selfish" way, but it seems to me he just doesn't see his teammates (except for the most obvious kick-out to the perimeter if the defense collapses on him) once he's focused on scoring.  It's the difference between a sort of Musashi Miyamoto-esque romanticized duel going on in Melo's head vs. the small unit tactics that dominate NBA-level play.  He doesn't necessarily want to bring it up the court (IIRC he was reluctant to play the role of point forward) but once the ball's in his hands he goes into a zone.  That same zone that makes him almost unstoppable in a one-on-one matchup -- there is literally nothing a defender can do to stop him from scoring; he's just too talented -- also gives him the most myopic court vision in the NBA.  So while you can almost never shut him down, you can certainly make him inefficient.  Melo was 2nd in the league in scoring last season, but his TS% isn't even among the top 50 of active players.  Similarly, on defense he just doesn't know what to do.  I think it's very easy for an opposing team to use Melo's habits to their advantage.

He's not a superstar.  He's very talented -- as a finisher he's one of the best ever -- but that's only like 30% at most of what the NBA demands from a "legit" superstar.
 
2014-06-16 07:23:58 PM
I wish the Heat would sign Carmelo and Kobe. They'd need five basketballs.
 
2014-06-16 07:34:21 PM

drew46n2: Why doesn't EVERYONE want Melo? I mean, he's one of the best ball-hogs in the league. Who wouldn't want a guy who will jack up 30+ a night whether they're falling or not? Looking at the last several championship teams, it's clear that star-focused "me" ball is the formula for success in the NBA.


Nice.
 
2014-06-16 08:13:47 PM
Barkley said something ? ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
 
2014-06-16 08:21:11 PM

dragonchild: Orgasmatron138: They need a legit superstar to compliment Rose, and Melo's probably the closest thing available.
That's pretty pathetic considering Melo is nowhere near close to a "legit" superstar.

To be as fair as possible, I think he's misunderstood.  People say he's a cancer but I don't know any player who spoke ill of his conduct in the locker room, and it was Melo of all people who pushed for Jeremy Lin's playing time.  They say he's a ball-hog but he's very consistently averaged 3apg in his career; this is on par with a prolific finisher, about the same as Kevin Durant or Karl Malone.  They say he doesn't try but he averaged 8rpg last season and rebound are largely (albeit far from completely) an effort thing.  No, Melo isn't nearly the ball-hogging dickwad the media makes him out to be.  The problem with Melo is that he's stupid.

He's a streetballer -- not in any "thugball" or "selfish" way, but it seems to me he just doesn't see his teammates (except for the most obvious kick-out to the perimeter if the defense collapses on him) once he's focused on scoring.  It's the difference between a sort of Musashi Miyamoto-esque romanticized duel going on in Melo's head vs. the small unit tactics that dominate NBA-level play.  He doesn't necessarily want to bring it up the court (IIRC he was reluctant to play the role of point forward) but once the ball's in his hands he goes into a zone.  That same zone that makes him almost unstoppable in a one-on-one matchup -- there is literally nothing a defender can do to stop him from scoring; he's just too talented -- also gives him the most myopic court vision in the NBA.  So while you can almost never shut him down, you can certainly make him inefficient.  Melo was 2nd in the league in scoring last season, but his TS% isn't even among the top 50 of active players.  Similarly, on defense he just doesn't know what to do.  I think it's very easy for an opposing team to use Melo's habits to their advantage.

He's not a superstar.  He's very talented -- as a finisher he's one of the best ever -- but that's only like 30% at most of what the NBA demands from a "legit" superstar.


Well, I think Melo's teammates must like him, as the Knicks have had just about half his former Denver teammates on the roster.

I think that he's less a cancer than he has decided how he is going to play. It doesn't involve a lot of defense, it doesn't always involve actually paying attention to plays that the coach calls.

What's sad is that Anthony has all the skills and size and strength to be almost as good as LeBron James. He should be a triple-double threat almost every night. Instead he wants to jack the ball up and half-ass the rest.
 
2014-06-16 09:31:51 PM
Also. All of the marquee players signing up on one team couldn't have any repercussions. No. Not at all.

/coming soon: big 8
 
2014-06-16 09:46:23 PM

BSABSVR: What's sad is that Anthony has all the skills and size and strength to be almost as good as LeBron James. He should be a triple-double threat almost every night. Instead he wants to jack the ball up and half-ass the rest.

I beg to differ.  People keep talking about Melo like he's a real superstar who just doesn't try and prefers to shoot shoot shoot.  I think that's wrong.  I think he's incapable; i.e., he lacks the skills you think he has to be a triple-double threat; i.e., he was never a superstar in the first place.  Stuff like court vision, situational awareness, strategy and decision-making are all skills that Melo just doesn't have.  I'm not a huge fan of the guy but I've never seen a shred of evidence that he's all about himself.  He's got a lot of swagger but he's got the talent to back it up.  On the court, he plays like an over-eager but genuinely enthusiastic streetballin' ninth grader trapped in the body of a superstar -- I think he honestly tries to be the best he can be for the team; he just thinks that entails taking on his defender mano a mano and scoring in buckets.  He lacks the intelligence to grasp anything more complex.

Not that there's a difference on the court, but at least instead of blaming him for all his team's problems, he simply needs to be re-evaluated as someone who was NEVER a max salary player and should stop being treated as such.  NY keeps waiting and hoping for him to emerge from a chrysalis a full-grown superstar but FFS the guy's 30.  I think anyone who thinks he can learn the triangle offense or change his game to accomodate LeBron will be disappointed yet again.  Will he be willing?  I think so.  He's always expressed interest in doing so, and I think that willingness is sincere.  I just think when it comes time to learn, his feeble brain can't translate practice into game situations and he goes back into iso.  If he had any capacity left to learn the game and mature into the superstar everyone's been waiting for, some time in the last ten years would've been indicative.
 
2014-06-16 10:03:17 PM
*looks at Heat*

cdn.memegenerator.net
 
2014-06-16 10:09:45 PM

dragonchild: I beg to differ.  People keep talking about Melo like he's a real superstar who just doesn't try and prefers to shoot shoot shoot.  I think that's wrong.  I think he's incapable; i.e., he lacks the skills you think he has to be a triple-double threat; i.e., he was never a superstar in the first place.  Stuff like court vision, situational awareness, strategy and decision-making are all skills that Melo just doesn't have.  I'm not a huge fan of the guy but I've never seen a shred of evidence that he's all about himself.  He's got a lot of swagger but he's got the talent to back it up.  On the court, he plays like an over-eager but genuinely enthusiastic streetballin' ninth grader trapped in the body of a superstar -- I think he honestly tries to be the best he can be for the team; he just thinks that entails taking on his defender mano a mano and scoring in buckets.  He lacks the intelligence to grasp anything more complex.


He's got the bad luck to be a small forward at the same time as two all time greats.  He's a max player.  The Knicks were 11th in ORTG this year with their top 5 minutes guys being Carmelo, JR Smith, Felton, Shumpert, and Tim Hardaway.  He's a little too in love with 4 jab steps and a 20 foot jumper but he's still one of relatively few guys who can make a team's offense at least average basically by himself.
 
2014-06-16 10:23:17 PM

you have pee hands: he's still one of relatively few guys who can make a team's offense at least average basically by himself.

That I will not dispute.  You cannot have a below-average offense with Melo on the floor.  He's that good, as a scoring machine.  The problem is that this automatically leads to the conclusion that he's a superstar and thus deserves the max salary.  Any logician can tell you that this is terrible logic.  The reality is that the ceiling for an offense with Melo on the floor is above-average (and he's sure not paid for his defense).  He not only doesn't make his teammates better; he doesn't make any half-decent team better.  Any team with playoff ambitions has nothing to gain by throwing a max salary at Melo; frankly at his age any team looking to rebuild doesn't have a whole lot to gain by nabbing him either.  He's a guy who'll always have a job but will never win a championship because he's the antithesis of a guy who "gets you over the top".  He's the guy who instant turns ANY offense into an average one.  If it's a crappy offense, he'll elevate them to average all by himself.  If it's a great offense, he'll regress them to average all by himself.
 
2014-06-16 10:42:32 PM

dragonchild: you have pee hands: he's still one of relatively few guys who can make a team's offense at least average basically by himself.
That I will not dispute.  You cannot have a below-average offense with Melo on the floor.  He's that good, as a scoring machine.  The problem is that this automatically leads to the conclusion that he's a superstar and thus deserves the max salary.  Any logician can tell you that this is terrible logic.  The reality is that the ceiling for an offense with Melo on the floor is above-average (and he's sure not paid for his defense).  He not only doesn't make his teammates better; he doesn't make any half-decent team better.  Any team with playoff ambitions has nothing to gain by throwing a max salary at Melo; frankly at his age any team looking to rebuild doesn't have a whole lot to gain by nabbing him either.  He's a guy who'll always have a job but will never win a championship because he's the antithesis of a guy who "gets you over the top".  He's the guy who instant turns ANY offense into an average one.  If it's a crappy offense, he'll elevate them to average all by himself.  If it's a great offense, he'll regress them to average all by himself.


Some of those George Karl teams had pretty solid offenses.  He hasn't really played with that many good offensive players.  Billups is good.  Iverson was way past his prime and has all the same negatives.  JR Smith is talented but dumb as a rock.  Also, while he's not a good defender he's not ruining a team's defense either; he's strong and he's a pretty good rebounder.

I agree at this point though you can't really build a team around him.  Whatever his next contract is will be for his 11th-15th seasons or something like that so a team is paying for his decline.

As sort of an aside I think basketball "max" salaries are sort of a weird thing to talk about in absolutes because there's such a huge range of maxes from second contract guys getting like 12-14M up to  whatever Kobe's getting paid.
 
2014-06-16 10:48:29 PM

dragonchild: you have pee hands: he's still one of relatively few guys who can make a team's offense at least average basically by himself.
That I will not dispute.  You cannot have a below-average offense with Melo on the floor.  He's that good, as a scoring machine.  The problem is that this automatically leads to the conclusion that he's a superstar and thus deserves the max salary.  Any logician can tell you that this is terrible logic.  The reality is that the ceiling for an offense with Melo on the floor is above-average (and he's sure not paid for his defense).  He not only doesn't make his teammates better; he doesn't make any half-decent team better.  Any team with playoff ambitions has nothing to gain by throwing a max salary at Melo; frankly at his age any team looking to rebuild doesn't have a whole lot to gain by nabbing him either.  He's a guy who'll always have a job but will never win a championship because he's the antithesis of a guy who "gets you over the top".  He's the guy who instant turns ANY offense into an average one.  If it's a crappy offense, he'll elevate them to average all by himself.  If it's a great offense, he'll regress them to average all by himself.


While I agree with your assessment of Melo's game, he really hasn't played on a team where he wasn't the only star.  As noted in this thread, the best teammate he's had has been old AI.  Well, maybe Chandler depending on how you're evaluating guys, but Chandler's not outshining Melo on offense.

I'm skeptical of Melo's ability to adapt to having a smaller offensive role, but not completely dismissive of that possibility.  Hard to tell until he actually plays alongside other stars.  I know he's great internationally, but that's less him sharing the ball and more a shorter 3 point line and smaller defenders.
 
2014-06-17 07:20:46 AM

LemSkroob: I think he can make like $30M+ more by staying in NY than going elsewhere. That is a lot to pass up.


On the other hand, Florida has no state income tax. That was a key point for Robinson Cano going to Seattle, too - he gets to hang on to another $2M a year with the Seattle contract.
 
2014-06-17 08:53:49 AM
Calling it now. A sign and trade between Miami and NOLA. Lebron goes to NOLA to play with A. Davis while two of NOLA's shooting guards and at least two other pieces go back to Miami.
 
2014-06-17 11:12:40 AM
Melo signs w/ Spurs to win a ring.  Talks LeBron into skipping out of his contract and joining him there.  ;-)
 
2014-06-17 05:20:47 PM
Jalen's podcast brought up Lowrie to Miami in the off season.  If they can afford him that solves the ball handler issue.
 
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