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(The Atlantic)   E-Cigarettes could be worse than "regular" cigarettes. Or they could be safer. But no one really knows   (theatlantic.com ) divider line
    More: PSA, Altria, tobacco company, Philip Morris, smoking rates, cigarettes  
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5142 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jun 2014 at 9:30 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-15 06:31:27 PM  
Who cares what it's doing to the smoker? If someone chooses to smoke, I would prefer it to be an ecig so that there is no secondhand smoke around.
 
2014-06-15 06:43:43 PM  

Gig103: Who cares what it's doing to the smoker? If someone chooses to smoke, I would prefer it to be an ecig so that there is no secondhand smoke around.


If "secondhand" smoke bothers you I hope you don't own or approve of any gasoline operated devices. Especially two stroke tools like lawnmowers and leaf blowers.
 
2014-06-15 06:56:21 PM  

doglover: If "secondhand" smoke bothers you I hope you don't own or approve of any gasoline operated devices. Especially two stroke tools like lawnmowers and leaf blowers.


I don't particularly enjoy walking past landscapers using them either.
 
2014-06-15 07:22:18 PM  
Pretty much every article about this is the same 'Maybe they're safe(r), maybe they're not'.  How about waiting until the research is in and then reporting on it?
 
2014-06-15 07:24:01 PM  
we have become a nation of pussies. in my day, smoking showed how cool and manly you were, and people wanted the biggest baddest cars they could buy, so we could blow exhaust all over the damn place. and we liked it that way.

kids these days should just stay inside where its safe.
 
2014-06-15 07:34:17 PM  
They sure look douchy, that's for sure.
 
2014-06-15 07:45:33 PM  
Having inhaled a lot of different things in a lot of different ways, I'm getting a kick...
 
2014-06-15 07:50:12 PM  

Gig103: doglover: If "secondhand" smoke bothers you I hope you don't own or approve of any gasoline operated devices. Especially two stroke tools like lawnmowers and leaf blowers.

I don't particularly enjoy walking past landscapers using them either.


Good. Once all gardeners MUST use scythes, phase two may begin.
 
2014-06-15 08:02:42 PM  

doglover: Gig103: Who cares what it's doing to the smoker? If someone chooses to smoke, I would prefer it to be an ecig so that there is no secondhand smoke around.

If "secondhand" smoke bothers you I hope you don't own or approve of any gasoline operated devices. Especially two stroke tools like lawnmowers and leaf blowers.


One, two-stroke landscaping tools are in the process of being phased out -- or, if not completely phased out, at least they're not as prevalent.

Two, it's fairly easy to avoid two-stroke exhaust fumes. Plus, y'know, it would be weird to run a leafblower in a public gathering place.

False equivalency is false.
 
2014-06-15 08:30:30 PM  

doglover: Good. Once all gardeners MUST use scythes, phase two may begin.


I don't remember using the word "MUST" with regards to cigarettes. I have a preference, you don't seem to allow for those.
 
2014-06-15 08:56:51 PM  
In their present state, they are not only unregulated and we really don't know how harmful they are, but mainly they are made out of non-recyclable plastic bullshiat that is going to end up in a landfill with millions of other non-recyclable pieces of plastic.

Two reasons, other than the fact nicotine is a bullshiat drug, that I oppose e-cigs.
 
2014-06-15 08:58:10 PM  
Of course the tobacco companies are going to demonize e-cigarettes.Why wouldn't they?
 
2014-06-15 09:01:28 PM  

Mugato: Of course the tobacco companies are going to demonize e-cigarettes.Why wouldn't they?


Pretty sure every tobacco company makes some form of e-cigarette. Because $$$.
 
2014-06-15 09:01:59 PM  

Mugato: Of course the tobacco companies are going to demonize e-cigarettes.Why wouldn't they?


Where are you getting that?

If anything, it's a golden opportunity to re-invent smoking for a new generation.
 
2014-06-15 09:03:34 PM  

Shostie: Mugato: Of course the tobacco companies are going to demonize e-cigarettes.Why wouldn't they?

Pretty sure every tobacco company makes some form of e-cigarette. Because $$$.


They don't. really. They started but they started late.
 
2014-06-15 09:22:24 PM  

Mentat: They sure look douchy, that's for sure.


Imagine if you were alive when the first cars were being made. I'll bet you'd say, "Those motorized carriages sure look douchy."

And then everybody in history would laugh at you for the rest of time.
 
2014-06-15 09:32:02 PM  

whidbey: In their present state, they are not only unregulated and we really don't know how harmful they are, but mainly they are made out of non-recyclable plastic bullshiat that is going to end up in a landfill with millions of other non-recyclable pieces of plastic.

Two reasons, other than the fact nicotine is a bullshiat drug, that I oppose e-cigs.


These.
 
2014-06-15 09:33:55 PM  

whidbey: In their present state, they are not only unregulated and we really don't know how harmful they are, but mainly they are made out of non-recyclable plastic bullshiat that is going to end up in a landfill with millions of other non-recyclable pieces of plastic.

Two reasons, other than the fact nicotine is a bullshiat drug, that I oppose e-cigs.


Prove they are dangerous.
 
2014-06-15 09:36:56 PM  
That's the problem with the technology. Until an organization with no bias really digs into the science, then we have to assume all the "facts" are coming from a source that  has some vested interest in coming up with a particular outcome from their "science". Much like big tobacco's early "doctor endorsement" PR stunts, If it's in a circus tent it's probably not legit...
 
2014-06-15 09:37:33 PM  

Mugato: Shostie: Mugato: Of course the tobacco companies are going to demonize e-cigarettes.Why wouldn't they?

Pretty sure every tobacco company makes some form of e-cigarette. Because $$$.

They don't. really. They started but they started late.


But they had the money to buy established brands, wtf is your point?
 
2014-06-15 09:37:38 PM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: whidbey: In their present state, they are not only unregulated and we really don't know how harmful they are, but mainly they are made out of non-recyclable plastic bullshiat that is going to end up in a landfill with millions of other non-recyclable pieces of plastic.

Two reasons, other than the fact nicotine is a bullshiat drug, that I oppose e-cigs.

Prove they are dangerous.


You know, there are studies that suggest that nicotine might protect against Alzheimer's and possibly Parkinson's.. so. there's that.
 
2014-06-15 09:38:45 PM  

TwistedIvory: doglover: Gig103: Who cares what it's doing to the smoker? If someone chooses to smoke, I would prefer it to be an ecig so that there is no secondhand smoke around.

If "secondhand" smoke bothers you I hope you don't own or approve of any gasoline operated devices. Especially two stroke tools like lawnmowers and leaf blowers.

One, two-stroke landscaping tools are in the process of being phased out -...


Citation needed.  Find me a fourstroke engine that can effectively power a chainsaw at equivalent weight, and we'll talk.
 
2014-06-15 09:39:04 PM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: whidbey: In their present state, they are not only unregulated and we really don't know how harmful they are, but mainly they are made out of non-recyclable plastic bullshiat that is going to end up in a landfill with millions of other non-recyclable pieces of plastic.

Two reasons, other than the fact nicotine is a bullshiat drug, that I oppose e-cigs.

Prove they are dangerous.


Yes, prove it to us. The great thing about the current state of the e-cig market is that it's self regulating, and most companies already adhere to everything and beyond what was proposed by the FDA.
 
2014-06-15 09:40:35 PM  
Thanks, The Atlantic, for writing an article nobody needed.
 
2014-06-15 09:43:13 PM  

chitownmike: Mugato: Shostie: Mugato: Of course the tobacco companies are going to demonize e-cigarettes.Why wouldn't they?

Pretty sure every tobacco company makes some form of e-cigarette. Because $$$.

They don't. really. They started but they started late.

But they had the money to buy established brands, wtf is your point?


The tobacco companies have an obvious  interest in stopping non-tobacco related cigarettes from being successful.
 
2014-06-15 09:45:01 PM  

whidbey: In their present state, they are not only unregulated and we really don't know how harmful they are, but mainly they are made out of non-recyclable plastic bullshiat that is going to end up in a landfill with millions of other non-recyclable pieces of plastic.

Two reasons, other than the fact nicotine is a bullshiat drug, that I oppose e-cigs.


Nicotine is pretty similar to caffeine. The only real difference is the delivery vehicle and with e cigs, it's not a problem anymore.
 
2014-06-15 09:45:37 PM  

Somaticasual: That's the problem with the technology. Until an organization with no bias really digs into the science, then we have to assume all the "facts" are coming from a source that  has some vested interest in coming up with a particular outcome from their "science". Much like big tobacco's early "doctor endorsement" PR stunts, If it's in a circus tent it's probably not legit...


Kinda like global warming, er, climate change, er, climate disruption, er ...
 
2014-06-15 09:46:48 PM  
No one knows. And you better not be tellin' 'em.
 
2014-06-15 09:46:49 PM  
No burnt up organic compounds, you stupid farkwits.
 
2014-06-15 09:47:44 PM  
Two e-cig just popped up here in Redmond, WA so the popularity if definitely growing. I got a chuckle out of one store advestising a "googleplexian" amount of flavors on their sign.
 
2014-06-15 09:49:59 PM  
What I got from that article was basically that, if big tobacco is buying up e-cig companies, then it must be bad.
 
2014-06-15 09:51:27 PM  
"To say that it's less harmful is like saying it's better to jump out of the 40th floor than the 100th floor of a building," says Stacey Anderson, an assistant professor of social and behavioral science specializing in tobacco marketing at the University of California, San Francisco.

I always get my medical advice from marketing specialists.
 
2014-06-15 09:52:35 PM  
Um... we very much DO know that they're safer, even the alarmist claptrap in TFA is only claiming that there might still be a non-zero health impact, subby.

And even that claim... well, the person they got their stupid quote from really needs to get kicked out of her department until she learns how science works and how burden of proof works.  Not only is the burden of proof on the people that think that e-cigs are unhealthy (because all of the ingredients in tobacco known to cause issues straight-up do not exist in e-cigs), but there have already been several studies done on the new products and they've so far found no health risks whatsoever.

Come the fark on, man.  Even the Atlantic is better than publishing articles with the equivalent logic of anti-vaxxers.
 
2014-06-15 09:52:50 PM  

Shakin_Haitian: whidbey: In their present state, they are not only unregulated and we really don't know how harmful they are, but mainly they are made out of non-recyclable plastic bullshiat that is going to end up in a landfill with millions of other non-recyclable pieces of plastic.

Two reasons, other than the fact nicotine is a bullshiat drug, that I oppose e-cigs.

Nicotine is pretty similar to caffeine. The only real difference is the delivery vehicle and with e cigs, it's not a problem anymore.


How is nicotine "pretty similar" to caffeine?

And while it seems obvious that the delivery method is safer than conventional cigs we don't have long-term data.

The only people claiming they're safe seem to be e-cig hobbyists.

/not an e-cig hobbyist, just a user  (I don't post pictures of my e-cigs on the internet)
 
2014-06-15 09:53:54 PM  
The personal safety aspect is secondary, in my opinion.  It wasn't the reason I switched from regular cigs to my e-cig.  I still want studies conducted, and I want them conducted correctly.  Anyone that just blindly believes that e-cigs are "safer" just because it's not a real cigarette isn't using their brain.  Of course e-cigs could be just as bad as real cigarettes.  They probably aren't, but without a lot of studies, we won't know.  We also don't know what the long-term effects of the products are, and there a metric shiatload of different products out there, not just on the e-cig side but on the liquid side.  We have no idea if one company's e-juice is worse than another, nor do we know if they're all universally bad/good for you.  We just don't know.  But there are some things I do know.

A)  I don't wake up hacking up a whole farm of lung oysters every morning and B) My house, car, clothes, hair, and everything I touch no longer smells like Nick Nolte's wifebeater.

So until some good studies come to light, I'm going to continue using my e-cig.  If it turns out I've made a horrible decision, I'll deal with that later.  For right now, though, it seems like a pretty good deal.  Atleast a better deal than smoking real cigarettes or using any other kind of tobacco product.
 
2014-06-15 09:56:06 PM  

Mugato: Of course the tobacco companies are going to demonize e-cigarettes.Why wouldn't they?


Actually, they are buying stock in them. Farking pinhookers.
 
2014-06-15 09:56:41 PM  
I think we are all missing the important point here. Who cares if there are scientific facts to confirm or deny the safety of E-cigs. The government needs to step in as quickly as possible and regulate / tax the shiat out of them.
 
2014-06-15 09:57:49 PM  

texastag: I think we are all missing the important point here. Who cares if there are scientific facts to confirm or deny the safety of E-cigs. The government needs to step in as quickly as possible and regulate / tax the shiat out of them.


Already happening.
 
2014-06-15 09:57:51 PM  
We still don' allow our smoker friends to smoke ecigs in the car. The vapor is way better than smoke, but it still smells like crap in an enclosed space.
 
2014-06-15 09:58:10 PM  

gfid: Shakin_Haitian: whidbey: In their present state, they are not only unregulated and we really don't know how harmful they are, but mainly they are made out of non-recyclable plastic bullshiat that is going to end up in a landfill with millions of other non-recyclable pieces of plastic.

Two reasons, other than the fact nicotine is a bullshiat drug, that I oppose e-cigs.

Nicotine is pretty similar to caffeine. The only real difference is the delivery vehicle and with e cigs, it's not a problem anymore.

How is nicotine "pretty similar" to caffeine?

And while it seems obvious that the delivery method is safer than conventional cigs we don't have long-term data.

The only people claiming they're safe seem to be e-cig hobbyists.

/not an e-cig hobbyist, just a user  (I don't post pictures of my e-cigs on the internet)


Why not both? E-cigs have worked great for me over these last few years. Started at 36mg, and I'm now down to 12, next order of liquid will probably be 4 or 6mg.  Find me another great way to quit; I'm all ears.  Cold turkey worked easily with booze and pot, but is living hell for cigarettes. Chantix sounds great until you know that it causes severe depression in a high percentage of patients, and I doubt it would help with my bad anxiety and current state of mind.
 
2014-06-15 09:58:53 PM  

gfid: How is nicotine "pretty similar" to caffeine?


They're both mild stimulants with similar side effects and associated dependency issues/withdrawal symptoms.

The biochemistry is pretty similar, too, in terms of functionality.
 
2014-06-15 10:02:06 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Pretty much every article about this is the same 'Maybe they're safe(r), maybe they're not'.  How about waiting until the research is in and then reporting on it?


Well, we have studies of the effects of nicotine by itself (through patches, gum, etc), I can't really see a reason for e-cigs to be any worse than them other than...

mooseyfate: We also don't know what the long-term effects of the products are, and there a metric shiatload of different products out there, not just on the e-cig side but on the liquid side.  We have no idea if one company's e-juice is worse than another, nor do we know if they're all universally bad/good for you.


This is the real problem - the lack of regulation. If you buy a cheap batch of e-liquid from a Chinese manufacturer you have absolutely no farking clue what you're putting into your body.
 
2014-06-15 10:02:51 PM  

Jim_Callahan: all of the ingredients in tobacco known to cause issues straight-up do not exist in e-cigs


Well, except nicotine.
 
2014-06-15 10:04:05 PM  

whidbey: In their present state, they are not only unregulated and we really don't know how harmful they are, but mainly they are made out of non-recyclable plastic bullshiat that is going to end up in a landfill with millions of other non-recyclable pieces of plastic.

Two reasons, other than the fact nicotine is a bullshiat drug, that I oppose e-cigs.


The landfill argument is ridiculous. Walk around any big box store and you will find a thousand products more landfill-negative than e-cigs. Cleaning supplies, for example. Lately the trend seems to be towards disposable cleaning supplies instead of rags and mobs and such. Pisses me off, but nobody seems to care.
 
2014-06-15 10:05:07 PM  
there have been multiple studies on the main ingredients in e-cigs (pg & vg) & they have been proven safe. pg & vg are used (occupationally) in fog machines - the only difference between that & my e-cig is a few drops per ml of menthol crystals dissolved in everclear for flavor.

remember this is the same fda that is/has peed their pants about removing the acetaminophen from opiate painkillers - because accidental deaths & overdoses of acetaminophen are somehow "better" than the possibility of getting addicted to painkillers.
 
2014-06-15 10:05:33 PM  

whidbey: Two reasons, other than the fact nicotine is a bullshiat drug, that I oppose e-cigs.


Eat many tomatoes?
 
2014-06-15 10:07:09 PM  
I switched and my smokers cough went away
 
2014-06-15 10:07:14 PM  

whidbey: In their present state, they are not only unregulated and we really don't know how harmful they are, but mainly they are made out of non-recyclable plastic bullshiat that is going to end up in a landfill with millions of other non-recyclable pieces of plastic.

Two reasons, other than the fact nicotine is a bullshiat drug, that I oppose e-cigs.


The disposable ones are like that, but most people I know who use them use a refillable and rechargable type.  While the individual components of that may not be recyclable (though some should be), given the lifespan of the device it creates a lot less waste than the thousands of cigarettes and the the associated butts it replaces.
 
2014-06-15 10:12:20 PM  

jaylectricity: Jim_Callahan: all of the ingredients in tobacco known to cause issues straight-up do not exist in e-cigs

Well, except nicotine.


Nicotene in itself isn't actually all that harmful, it's a stimulant so it's somewhat addictive and you can muck up your heart if you take too much, but if the dosages are kept similar to what cigarettes give you they're about as dangerous as taking some coffee.  You'll eventually get some similar issues with mild dependency, but without the aldehyde modification the tobacco industry uses you won't even see much of that.

The reason cigarettes are age-regulated and subject to the warning label stuff are all the carcinogens, mostly, and a number of things known to cause respiratory issues like tar.  Those don't exist in e-cigs.

So... yeah, it's about the same as chewing nicotene gum.  Or caffeine gum, for that matter.  In theory you could OD on it or impact your health, but it would take a lot of work on your part and it'd pretty much have to be intentional.  If that was sufficient reason to health-tax something then no one would be allowed to have running water and there'd be a surcharge on breathing since you can technically hyper-ventilate yourself to death.
 
2014-06-15 10:12:28 PM  

Jument: whidbey: In their present state, they are not only unregulated and we really don't know how harmful they are, but mainly they are made out of non-recyclable plastic bullshiat that is going to end up in a landfill with millions of other non-recyclable pieces of plastic.

Two reasons, other than the fact nicotine is a bullshiat drug, that I oppose e-cigs.

The landfill argument is ridiculous. Walk around any big box store and you will find a thousand products more landfill-negative than e-cigs. Cleaning supplies, for example. Lately the trend seems to be towards disposable cleaning supplies instead of rags and mobs and such. Pisses me off, but nobody seems to care.


This.  "B..b...buh they're made of plastic!" is the type of thing an idiot would say after they've decided they're upset about e-cigs, but still have to furnish a reason why.
 
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