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(TampaBay.com (St. Petersburg Tim)   I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? Microplastics   (tampabay.com) divider line 34
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3002 clicks; posted to Geek » on 15 Jun 2014 at 7:59 AM (32 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



34 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-06-15 05:26:37 AM  
Stop trying to make 'fetch' happen, it's not going to happen.
 
2014-06-15 08:25:44 AM  
I have one word for you subby.... BOOGERS!
 
2014-06-15 08:35:01 AM  
"Penis."
 
2014-06-15 08:52:55 AM  
I recently read somewhere that in the US, a barrier to building desalinization plants was that the EPA was concerned about sucking in (and invariably killing) plankton.

Maybe this is the ticket. Suck in the ocean, "fix" the water somehow (I strongly suggest the use of science!) and then desalinate the water.
 
2014-06-15 09:15:20 AM  
Are you trying to seduce me, subby?
 
2014-06-15 10:01:42 AM  

Destructor: I recently read somewhere that in the US, a barrier to building desalinization plants was that the EPA was concerned about sucking in (and invariably killing) plankton.

Maybe this is the ticket. Suck in the ocean, "fix" the water somehow (I strongly suggest the use of science!) and then desalinate the water.


Why do you assholes here on fark always have to bring your blind hatred of religion into every thread, huh?
 
2014-06-15 10:10:06 AM  

uttertosh: Why do you assholes here on fark always have to bring your blind hatred of religion into every thread, huh?


Well, I'm not opposed to religious research into the matter. Just so long as its privately funded.
 
2014-06-15 10:20:34 AM  
Legs. Spread the word like good Christians.
 
2014-06-15 10:28:13 AM  
Nineteen.
 
2014-06-15 10:31:38 AM  

uttertosh: Destructor: I recently read somewhere that in the US, a barrier to building desalinization plants was that the EPA was concerned about sucking in (and invariably killing) plankton.

Maybe this is the ticket. Suck in the ocean, "fix" the water somehow (I strongly suggest the use of science!) and then desalinate the water.

Why do you assholes here on fark always have to bring your blind hatred of religion into every thread, huh?


Uhm. Wha?
 
2014-06-15 10:45:32 AM  

xaks: Uhm. Wha?


I'm guessing oversensitivity to the "Science! meme" thing. It's okay. I suppose we could try music or art, too. But I think Science! is our best bet.
 
2014-06-15 12:09:39 PM  
Is Is that a Back to the Future reference or do I need more coffee...
 
2014-06-15 12:19:50 PM  

PreMortem: Is Is that a Back to the Future reference or do I need more coffee...


No, it isn't, and yes you do.
 
2014-06-15 12:36:00 PM  

gwowen: PreMortem: Is Is that a Back to the Future reference or do I need more coffee...

No, it isn't, and yes you do.


Ok, had some coffee and the motivation to look it up. I was way off. Knew I heard it somewhere. Didn't like that movie, so that explains that.
 
2014-06-15 01:05:44 PM  

Destructor: I recently read somewhere that in the US, a barrier to building desalinization plants was that the EPA was concerned about sucking in (and invariably killing) plankton.

Maybe this is the ticket. Suck in the ocean, "fix" the water somehow (I strongly suggest the use of science!) and then desalinate the water.


To hell with that shiat. If I get the option, I want to choose magic. Science is nice and all, but magic would let me fling fireballs like today, not in 500 years.
 
2014-06-15 01:05:58 PM  

Destructor: xaks: Uhm. Wha?

I'm guessing oversensitivity to the "Science! meme" thing. It's okay. I suppose we could try music or art, too. But I think Science! is our best bet.


It was the Science! bit, and I was being silly. Very, very, very silly. Indeed.
 
2014-06-15 01:07:56 PM  
Will it prevent my Modern Armor units from being annihilated by Hoplites?
 
2014-06-15 01:09:01 PM  
Just one more log on the fire. A short list of things damaging the ocean:

Overfishing
Fertilizer runoff
Urban runoff
Development of coastal areas
Loss of wetlands
Damming of rivers
Destructive fishing practices like trawling that destroy seafloor habitat
Trash in the water in general
Plastic trash
Ocean acidification
Microplastics

It's like a bad joke. Most people have no clue of how rich and beautiful ocean habitats can be, nor any clue as to how badly damaged most areas are, nor any idea that it matters in any way. It's human nature, really, what you don't see you don't care about. The end result, though, is ugly.
 
2014-06-15 01:13:22 PM  

uttertosh: It was the Science! bit, and I was being silly. Very, very, very silly. Indeed


Fwew! :-) Can never be too sure.
 
2014-06-15 01:16:55 PM  

adamatari: It's like a bad joke. Most people have no clue of how rich and beautiful ocean habitats can be, nor any clue as to how badly damaged most areas are, nor any idea that it matters in any way. It's human nature, really, what you don't see you don't care about. The end result, though, is ugly.


Do you think its possible we can clean it up? All it would take is a lot of energy (nuclear) and some really big tubes... and technology to figure out how to do it. Plankton gets put back, microbeads, toxins and scary jellyfish are disposed of safely, and some freshwater for areas that need it.

Hmmm. Really, REALLY big tubes.
 
2014-06-15 01:23:42 PM  
img0.etsystatic.com
 
2014-06-15 01:52:50 PM  

Destructor: Do you think its possible we can clean it up? All it would take is a lot of energy (nuclear) and some really big tubes... and technology to figure out how to do it. Plankton gets put back, microbeads, toxins and scary jellyfish are disposed of safely, and some freshwater for areas that need it.

Hmmm. Really, REALLY big tubes.


No, nature does not work that way, and we don't have the technology to filter the oceans, the energy costs are basically infinite so using nuclear fission would probably require using up all the radioactive fuel on the planet, not to mention nuclear energy is something that will very likely ADD to the problems (Fukushima, for example, where the radioactive water is ending up in the ocean). A tech mindset will not fix this; a tech mindset is what CAUSED this - "how do I build near a beach? How can I catch as many fish as possible? How do I make that 'worthless' marsh into valuable condos? How do I grow shiattons of corn? How do I scrub my face in the most caustic way possible? How do I get more, more, more?"

I don't think it CAN be fixed, or rather, the long term fix is a lower human population. Human nature prevents a fix, human nature that is illustrated by your post. If you want to fix overfishing, you have to fish less. If you want to fix trawling, you have to ban trawling. If you want to fix most of these problems, it's not a matter of building something more or doing something more, it's a matter of NOT doing destructive things. It requires a polar opposite mindset from "fix if afterward so I don't have to change anything", it requires consideration of what occurs before you act, what the consequences of building and doing are.

There is perhaps a way of living so lightly that the oceans are not trashed, but I don't see a will to do it anywhere. Maybe among a few hippies that are relentlessly mocked by 95% of the population. But most people aren't even willing to give up F-150s they only use to commute to work.
 
2014-06-15 02:02:22 PM  

adamatari: I don't think it CAN be fixed, or rather, the long term fix is a lower human population.


This is my preferred solution. However, as soon as you even hint at touching reproductive rights, most people will get very upset and that pretty much ends any hope you have.

adamatari: But most people aren't even willing to give up F-150s they only use to commute to work.


And they never will.

And that leaves us to the inevitable conclusion that we're going to "hope" that the population stabilizes and that the planet can take a few more hits for the team.

But, it doesn't work like that... As everyone will eventually learn. And that's the tragedy.

You're right, we don't have the tech to clean the oceans. Right now, the idea even pushes my notions of rational. But it could be done? Sure. We screwed them up, we can fix 'em. It just takes tons of power. And yes, I'm sure the energy requirements are massive, but we might be able to do it with fission (hopefully while puzzling over fusion). There's a lot more fissionable material than most people think (reprocessing, thorium fuel cycle). Or we could get clever and figure out a way to use tidal energy. Who knows?

But, its all a pipe (in this case, tube) dream. No one sees a need to do it, and its a tough sell.
 
2014-06-15 02:05:32 PM  

King Something: Will it prevent my Modern Armor units from being annihilated by Hoplites?


No but you can now build a research lab.
 
2014-06-15 02:11:37 PM  

Destructor: uttertosh: It was the Science! bit, and I was being silly. Very, very, very silly. Indeed

Fwew! :-) Can never be too sure.


yeah, I thought I'd get a LOL, but it's fark, and these things can be hit'n'miss... ;-)
 
2014-06-15 02:17:22 PM  

uttertosh: yeah, I thought I'd get a LOL, but it's fark, and these things can be hit'n'miss... ;-)


Hehe. You ain't kiddin!
 
2014-06-15 04:13:39 PM  
Ok not sure if anyone has asked this yet but. Why the fark is that a Florida tag?
 
2014-06-15 04:45:37 PM  

Luven: Ok not sure if anyone has asked this yet but. Why the fark is that a Florida tag?


Tampa Bay Times. It's all I can think of.
 
2014-06-15 07:31:45 PM  

uttertosh: Destructor: uttertosh: It was the Science! bit, and I was being silly. Very, very, very silly. Indeed

Fwew! :-) Can never be too sure.

yeah, I thought I'd get a LOL, but it's fark, and these things can be hit'n'miss... ;-)


i laughed readin it especially the rplies. ops sry for typing, bit worse for wear

here`s one for you if you like

LOL

as I actually did hehe
 
2014-06-15 07:44:15 PM  

Destructor: adamatari: I don't think it CAN be fixed, or rather, the long term fix is a lower human population.

This is my preferred solution. However, as soon as you even hint at touching reproductive rights, most people will get very upset and that pretty much ends any hope you have.

adamatari: But most people aren't even willing to give up F-150s they only use to commute to work.

And they never will.

And that leaves us to the inevitable conclusion that we're going to "hope" that the population stabilizes and that the planet can take a few more hits for the team.

But, it doesn't work like that... As everyone will eventually learn. And that's the tragedy.

You're right, we don't have the tech to clean the oceans. Right now, the idea even pushes my notions of rational. But it could be done? Sure. We screwed them up, we can fix 'em. It just takes tons of power. And yes, I'm sure the energy requirements are massive, but we might be able to do it with fission (hopefully while puzzling over fusion). There's a lot more fissionable material than most people think (reprocessing, thorium fuel cycle). Or we could get clever and figure out a way to use tidal energy. Who knows?

But, its all a pipe (in this case, tube) dream. No one sees a need to do it, and its a tough sell.


Human population WILL stabilize and almost certainly fall at some point. Either we will overshoot the earth's carrying capacity and degrade our environment to the point that human populations fall, or we will blow each other up with nuclear weapons (the tech is difficult enough but it has slowly spread to many countries, so given human nature a nasty nuclear war is a matter of time), or disease will hit us like black plague, or some natural disaster will hit us (like what hit the dinosaurs). But in the short term, it won't happen... That much we agree on.

But as for trying to clean the oceans - perhaps I should expand. If we stop doing bad things, over time the oceans will heal to some extent. There are also proactive actions we can take, like restoring wetlands, that are less than ideal (a restored wetland is not as good as a natural wetland). But trying to cleanse the oceans without changing the behaviors that are polluting them is a fool's errand at best. First off, the oceans are BIG, 70% of the planet, and very deep. Second off, nuclear tech is very expensive, not as reliable as it is made out to be, and we still have NO IDEA what to do with the waste. Even with magical thorium reactors that don't exist now and probably won't ever exist, or magical reprocessing that is better than what we can do now, you still have nuclear waste. This is smaller in volume than waste from fossil fuels but very toxic and long-lived.

Secondly, the amount of energy required is simply so large and the amount of engineering required is so complicated and the amount of building and development required is so huge that you end up worse off than you started. Just think it through. Where would you build them? Near the coast. On top of coastal wetlands? In places at risk from flooding? Now those reactors seem a lot less safe, and you've destroyed what you were trying to fix. And how many would you need? On every shoreline on the planet? What about to clean up the "garbage patches" in the mid-ocean? Gonna make a fleet of clean-up subs? The time and effort required to do this is way more than the effort to reduce fertilizer runoff, ban microplastic beads, and severly reduce plastic waste with things like bag bans.

Thirdly, if we had the ability, we wouldn't waste the effort to help the oceans, instead we would squander it on new toys. Everyone would buy huge electric SUVs and the human population would go up yet more.

So yeah, no hope there. Maybe after the human race goes extinct, of if we became super-wise through alien ray beams that made us not want to breed like rabbits and develop every square inch of the earth.
 
2014-06-15 08:09:21 PM  

adamatari: Either we will overshoot the earth's carrying capacity and degrade our environment to the point that human populations fall, or we will blow each other up with nuclear weapons (the tech is difficult enough but it has slowly spread to many countries, so given human nature a nasty nuclear war is a matter of time), or disease will hit us like black plague, or some natural disaster will hit us (like what hit the dinosaurs). But in the short term, it won't happen... That much we agree on.


Grim..... But accurate.

adamatari: But trying to cleanse the oceans without changing the behaviors that are polluting them is a fool's errand at best.


Agreed. But, you must admit, we've learned much.

adamatari: Second off, nuclear tech is very expensive, not as reliable as it is made out to be, and we still have NO IDEA what to do with the waste.


Here we must disagree. Reprocessing lets us use fuel over and over again. With reprocessing, nuclear waste amounts to material that could fit under a typical desk. (Only 6% of a nuclear fuel rod's fuel is actually consumed...)

adamatari: Even with magical thorium reactors that don't exist now and probably won't ever exist


I am forced to concede you might be right. However, the science! says otherwise. India (I think) will let us know.... soon.....

adamatari: magical reprocessing that is better than what we can do now, you still have nuclear waste.


Nothing magical about it. We know this works. It helped bring you the cold war. (Yay?) France reprocesses. So far, so good.

adamatari: This is smaller in volume than waste from fossil fuels but very toxic and long-lived.


The nuclear poisons (as in, poison fission reactions) are fairly short lived. On the order of a few hundred years. There's also transmutation (3rd form of nuclear fission processes) that could even shorten that significantly.

adamatari: Secondly, the amount of energy required is simply so large and the amount of engineering required is so complicated and the amount of building and development required is so huge that you end up worse off than you started. Just think it through. Where would you build them


You ask many questions. Simply, I'm not qualified to answer them in scientific detail. However, with an amateur's knowledge, I think its safe to say its worth studying... right the hell now.

Much of the world's CO2 is being sequestered in the oceans (carbonic acid). Imagine, just imagine, if we were able to fix it out of sea water.

It could save the world.

The sort of research to clean the ocean seems obscenely pie-in-the-sky. I'm compelled to say that as a (quasi) realist. But, perhaps we should study it in depth (while reducing carbon emissions, of course). It may be the thing that saves us. All of us (sea life diversity).

adamatari: Thirdly, if we had the ability, we wouldn't waste the effort to help the oceans, instead we would squander it on new toys. Everyone would buy huge electric SUVs and the human population would go up yet more.


With "unlimited" power, I don't have a problem with this. With, unlimited power. Who would? That's the key to victory. That's the key to the success of Capitalism: cheap energy. Energy frees us.

IMHO, with enough energy, anything is possible. That's what we need to study. Fusion, better fission. Anything that provides us with enough energy to do what needs to be done.

adamatari: So yeah, no hope there. Maybe after the human race goes extinct, of if we became super-wise through alien ray beams that made us not want to breed like rabbits and develop every square inch of the earth.


31.media.tumblr.com

Personally, I'm counting on the Singularity to save us.
 
2014-06-15 09:00:24 PM  

Destructor: adamatari: I don't think it CAN be fixed, or rather, the long term fix is a lower human population.

This is my preferred solution. However, as soon as you even hint at touching reproductive rights, most people will get very upset and that pretty much ends any hope you have.

adamatari: But most people aren't even willing to give up F-150s they only use to commute to work.

And they never will.

And that leaves us to the inevitable conclusion that we're going to "hope" that the population stabilizes and that the planet can take a few more hits for the team.

But, it doesn't work like that... As everyone will eventually learn. And that's the tragedy.

You're right, we don't have the tech to clean the oceans. Right now, the idea even pushes my notions of rational. But it could be done? Sure. We screwed them up, we can fix 'em. It just takes tons of power. And yes, I'm sure the energy requirements are massive, but we might be able to do it with fission (hopefully while puzzling over fusion). There's a lot more fissionable material than most people think (reprocessing, thorium fuel cycle). Or we could get clever and figure out a way to use tidal energy. Who knows?

But, its all a pipe (in this case, tube) dream. No one sees a need to do it, and its a tough sell.


God. Damn. RWAs.

They'll vote "freedom" until the world gets so bad that a dictator will have to put a boot on the throat of humanity just to get it to quit ingesting so much poison.
 
2014-06-16 05:53:08 AM  

Destructor: adamatari: Either we will overshoot the earth's carrying capacity and degrade our environment to the point that human populations fall, or we will blow each other up with nuclear weapons (the tech is difficult enough but it has slowly spread to many countries, so given human nature a nasty nuclear war is a matter of time), or disease will hit us like black plague, or some natural disaster will hit us (like what hit the dinosaurs). But in the short term, it won't happen... That much we agree on.

Grim..... But accurate.

adamatari: But trying to cleanse the oceans without changing the behaviors that are polluting them is a fool's errand at best.

Agreed. But, you must admit, we've learned much.

adamatari: Second off, nuclear tech is very expensive, not as reliable as it is made out to be, and we still have NO IDEA what to do with the waste.

Here we must disagree. Reprocessing lets us use fuel over and over again. With reprocessing, nuclear waste amounts to material that could fit under a typical desk. (Only 6% of a nuclear fuel rod's fuel is actually consumed...)

adamatari: Even with magical thorium reactors that don't exist now and probably won't ever exist

I am forced to concede you might be right. However, the science! says otherwise. India (I think) will let us know.... soon.....

adamatari: magical reprocessing that is better than what we can do now, you still have nuclear waste.

Nothing magical about it. We know this works. It helped bring you the cold war. (Yay?) France reprocesses. So far, so good.

adamatari: This is smaller in volume than waste from fossil fuels but very toxic and long-lived.

The nuclear poisons (as in, poison fission reactions) are fairly short lived. On the order of a few hundred years. There's also transmutation (3rd form of nuclear fission processes) that could even shorten that significantly.

adamatari: Secondly, the amount of energy required is simply so large and the amount of engineering required is so complicated and the amo ...


You mean the things those Romulans use as engines?
 
2014-06-16 10:08:06 AM  

dready zim: uttertosh: Destructor: uttertosh: It was the Science! bit, and I was being silly. Very, very, very silly. Indeed

Fwew! :-) Can never be too sure.

yeah, I thought I'd get a LOL, but it's fark, and these things can be hit'n'miss... ;-)

i laughed readin it especially the rplies. ops sry for typing, bit worse for wear

here`s one for you if you like

LOL

as I actually did hehe


nice! I was so sure tha I didn't really need a ;-) after it, but yeah, this is Fark.

Thx fr the LOL, typing be xcusd for you, alwys, dredz!
 
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