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(The Root)   Another school shooting rocks the nation. Well, substitute "Waffle House" for "school," and change "rocks the nation" to "surprises nobody"   (theroot.com) divider line 138
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4528 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jun 2014 at 8:09 AM (10 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-15 12:01:00 PM

Saborlas: Let see...

Shooter is Arab? Terrorist.

Shooter is black? Culture of violence.

Shooter is white? Mental illness.


Shooter is asian? MRA shiatlord
 
2014-06-15 12:03:15 PM
Why do they even pay the security guard? Was he there to protect the employees from customers or customers for the employees? Through it all I am guessing he was pretty confused as to who he should pull his gun on.
 
2014-06-15 12:12:07 PM

pyrotek85: mschwenk: pyrotek85: mschwenk: pyrotek85: NEDM: joshik72: Georgia has a "Stand Your Ground" law:

http://www.georgiapacking.org/GaCode/ ?title=16&chapter=3§ion=23.1

Could this apply here in the shooter's defense? If the cook felt "legimately threatened" by the behavior of the belligerent customer, would SYG grant him the right to shoot?

...no.  You have legitimately and reasonably feel that you were in fear of your life for that to come into play.  No matter how the guy spins it, he won't be able to justify him fearing his life just because someone threw water in his face.  Especially if there was a security guard already involved in the situation.

Yep. Even if he honestly felt threatened, it would fail the 'reasonableness' test. That means that you can't shoot people out of irrational fears and get away with it just by claiming you feared for your life, though some people do try to paint it that way however. All SYG does is remove the need to retreat, it doesn't lower the standards for employing deadly force, which doesn't make it that different than self defense laws of any other state. SYG isn't carte blanche to shoot anyone you please, no matter how people spin it.

Read the article.

I did. It's not based just on how he felt, but whether his feelings were reasonable. That's my point, I was just clarifying it. Some people honestly seem to think that all you need is to feel threatened and then shooting them is ok, which would certainly make self defense laws horrifying. Fortunately that's not the case.

You not getting it. He didn't shoot the one who threw water in his face. You have one witness saying one of the customers was threatening to shoot, an another saying that the two customers "got into it" with the cook. "Got into it" is ambiguous; it could mean an argument, or it could mean they jumped the counter and physically attacked the cook. There isn't enough information here to make a determination as to a SYG or self defense claim.

I do get it,  I never said he shot the water-thrower. I agree that there isn't enough information to determine whether he has a valid claim, which is why I haven't said he has a claim or not. All I was doing was clarifying that it needs to be more than 'I feared for my life'. The law is going to determine that after establishing the specific circumstances.


Hopefully it goes to a reasonable court. I have seen valid claims get ignored and invalid ones treated as valid.
 
2014-06-15 12:19:58 PM

mschwenk: pyrotek85: mschwenk: pyrotek85: mschwenk: pyrotek85: NEDM: joshik72: Georgia has a "Stand Your Ground" law:

http://www.georgiapacking.org/GaCode/ ?title=16&chapter=3§ion=23.1

Could this apply here in the shooter's defense? If the cook felt "legimately threatened" by the behavior of the belligerent customer, would SYG grant him the right to shoot?

...no.  You have legitimately and reasonably feel that you were in fear of your life for that to come into play.  No matter how the guy spins it, he won't be able to justify him fearing his life just because someone threw water in his face.  Especially if there was a security guard already involved in the situation.

Yep. Even if he honestly felt threatened, it would fail the 'reasonableness' test. That means that you can't shoot people out of irrational fears and get away with it just by claiming you feared for your life, though some people do try to paint it that way however. All SYG does is remove the need to retreat, it doesn't lower the standards for employing deadly force, which doesn't make it that different than self defense laws of any other state. SYG isn't carte blanche to shoot anyone you please, no matter how people spin it.

Read the article.

I did. It's not based just on how he felt, but whether his feelings were reasonable. That's my point, I was just clarifying it. Some people honestly seem to think that all you need is to feel threatened and then shooting them is ok, which would certainly make self defense laws horrifying. Fortunately that's not the case.

You not getting it. He didn't shoot the one who threw water in his face. You have one witness saying one of the customers was threatening to shoot, an another saying that the two customers "got into it" with the cook. "Got into it" is ambiguous; it could mean an argument, or it could mean they jumped the counter and physically attacked the cook. There isn't enough information here to make a determination as to a SYG or self defense claim.

I do get i ...


cook seems like a felon based on priors through a google search

Can felons claim SYG with a  firearm when the possession of a firearm makes them a prohibited person based on prior felonies?

They were recently trying to pass a law that allows felons to shoot people in Georgia but I havent followed up on the law.
 
2014-06-15 12:21:23 PM

duffblue: Shooter is asian?a rabid online poster in MRA and PUA forums, as well as demonstrates a shockingly unhidden loathing of women in general because they don't like "nice guys" like him: MRA shiatlord

 
2014-06-15 12:23:26 PM

Giltric: cook seems like a felon based on priors through a google search

Can felons claim SYG with a  firearm when the possession of a firearm makes them a prohibited person based on prior felonies?

They were recently trying to pass a law that allows felons to shoot people in Georgia but I havent followed up on the law.


No they can't.  SYG, Castle Doctrine, et. al. are only valid if the shooter is acting lawfully.  A felon in possession of a firearm is universally in violation of the law, in fact committing a felony.
 
2014-06-15 12:51:43 PM

Giltric: mschwenk: pyrotek85: mschwenk: pyrotek85: mschwenk: pyrotek85: NEDM: joshik72: Georgia has a "Stand Your Ground" law:

http://www.georgiapacking.org/GaCode/ ?title=16&chapter=3§ion=23.1

Could this apply here in the shooter's defense? If the cook felt "legimately threatened" by the behavior of the belligerent customer, would SYG grant him the right to shoot?

...no.  You have legitimately and reasonably feel that you were in fear of your life for that to come into play.  No matter how the guy spins it, he won't be able to justify him fearing his life just because someone threw water in his face.  Especially if there was a security guard already involved in the situation.

Yep. Even if he honestly felt threatened, it would fail the 'reasonableness' test. That means that you can't shoot people out of irrational fears and get away with it just by claiming you feared for your life, though some people do try to paint it that way however. All SYG does is remove the need to retreat, it doesn't lower the standards for employing deadly force, which doesn't make it that different than self defense laws of any other state. SYG isn't carte blanche to shoot anyone you please, no matter how people spin it.

Read the article.

I did. It's not based just on how he felt, but whether his feelings were reasonable. That's my point, I was just clarifying it. Some people honestly seem to think that all you need is to feel threatened and then shooting them is ok, which would certainly make self defense laws horrifying. Fortunately that's not the case.

You not getting it. He didn't shoot the one who threw water in his face. You have one witness saying one of the customers was threatening to shoot, an another saying that the two customers "got into it" with the cook. "Got into it" is ambiguous; it could mean an argument, or it could mean they jumped the counter and physically attacked the cook. There isn't enough information here to make a determination as to a SYG or self defense claim.

I do get i ...

cook seems like a felon based on priors through a google search

Can felons claim SYG with a  firearm when the possession of a firearm makes them a prohibited person based on prior felonies?

They were recently trying to pass a law that allows felons to shoot people in Georgia but I havent followed up on the law.


A felon can claim self defense, but will still be guilty of unlawful posession of a firearm.
 
2014-06-15 12:56:04 PM

doglover: Poverty and lack of social mobility breeds violence. Violent places make children grow up into people violent. Violent people do things like this. You see this trend in every epoch in every nation in every history book.

But yes, guns are the problem.


No, it's the people who are the problem.

BTW - 'Security Guard' and Awful House in the same sentence? WTF is the world coming to?
 
2014-06-15 01:26:58 PM
Hmm so the guy threatening the cook with violence with a couple buddies to help out ends up being shot?

Not sure if I have a problem with that. Kinda...
 
2014-06-15 01:37:49 PM

firesign: Shiat. I live in Atlanta and I'd love to know which one this was. All TFA has is "a Waffle House in Fulton County, GA", which narrows the field to about 1,000,000 restaurants...



I wondered that as well.

I want to like Waffle House.  I really do.  However, scary shiat goes down at the Waffle Houses here in Atlanta.  If it's not a shooting, it's an armed robbery.

Unfortunately, there aren't too many other places open 24 hours a day.
 
2014-06-15 01:46:05 PM

Giltric: Probably a guy with prior felonies who votes democrat 98% of the time.



He's not in the demographic of reliable voters...
 
2014-06-15 01:56:57 PM

jaybeezey: As usual, all if Fark has missed the point and reason for letting this article get to print in some way.

The witness interviewed was named Ontray. Who in their right mind names a child after their favorite part of a meal?


I believe they lexically convolved the name for privacy reasons. The witness was undoubtedly named "Tron."
 
2014-06-15 01:59:21 PM

Elliot8654: Yep. So if someone throws water at you, murder them.


This actually seems to be the conclusion the gun nuts in this thread have come to.
 
2014-06-15 02:41:07 PM

DrBrownCow: According to a different article, he did not have a permit to have a concealed handgun.


For what reason should such a minor technicality prevent the Violence Policy Center from adding this incident to their list of "Concealed Carry Killers"?
 
2014-06-15 02:41:21 PM

99.998er: wellreadneck: I'm fairly certain the "I'm gonna fire you up" threat had more to do with the shooting than this "just a glass of water" angle being played up.

This article implies the cook said "I'm gonna fire you up", however the AJC says the diner said it.

From AJC:
After that, Haley said the two men "got into it with the cook and the guy that got shot, he threatened the cook. He told him, you come outside and I'm going to fire you up, which basically meant he wanted to shoot him."


The law doesn't allow you to shoot people because you fear that they're going to shoot you in the future, but unfortunately, many MANY convicted killers shoot for that very reason, believing it to be an act of self defense. Most "gang violence" killings are just personal disputes between those who are "keepin' it real."
 
2014-06-15 02:42:58 PM

Giltric: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: DrBrownCow: According to a different article, he did not have a permit to have a concealed handgun.

So, just a plain old Responsible Gun Owner.

Probably a guy with prior felonies who votes democrat 98% of the time.

Own that shiat son.


Convicted felons can vote now? Do tell. And you could shorten what you really mean with just one word. We all know what it is; own that shiat.
 
2014-06-15 02:47:53 PM
 Has Bill Cunningham bought the rights to this story yet?
 
2014-06-15 02:48:41 PM

FizixJunkee: firesign: Shiat. I live in Atlanta and I'd love to know which one this was. All TFA has is "a Waffle House in Fulton County, GA", which narrows the field to about 1,000,000 restaurants...


I wondered that as well.

I want to like Waffle House.  I really do.  However, scary shiat goes down at the Waffle Houses here in Atlanta.  If it's not a shooting, it's an armed robbery.

Unfortunately, there aren't too many other places open 24 hours a day.


Settle down, Beavis. There are probably three shootings at Waffle House in the metro Atlanta area per year. There are at LEAST 100 Waffle Houses in metro Atlanta (probably more like 200). You might justifiably feel a little nervous at a Waffle House in the more run-down parts of town at 3 a.m., but other than that, your odds of seeing a shooting at Waffle House are infinitessimal. You want to be nervous about something real, consider that you drive in Atlanta.
 
2014-06-15 02:50:01 PM

LazyMedia: Giltric: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: DrBrownCow: According to a different article, he did not have a permit to have a concealed handgun.

So, just a plain old Responsible Gun Owner.

Probably a guy with prior felonies who votes democrat 98% of the time.

Own that shiat son.

Convicted felons can vote now? Do tell. And you could shorten what you really mean with just one word. We all know what it is; own that shiat.


Georgia law allows convicted felons to vote after serving their prison term plus any additional parole plus any additional probation time.

/I was surprised.
//Most states that disenfranchise felons permanently enacted such laws specifically to reduce the number of blacks who could vote.
 
2014-06-15 02:58:59 PM
I have been going to Waffle Houses in the Atlanta area since 1989.  The first one I went to was after restaurant work when I was 18 and in a dangerous area of Fulton county.  The 3rd shift cook always had a .45.  Then many years afterward, many other cooks had guns at several other places.  Mostly it was because Waffle House is often the target of robberies during the 3rd shift.  It seemed normal to me that they would carry a gun.
   The cook in the article would have been just fine if the other guy had pulled a gun first.  The area celebrates when an armed robber gets shot in the act.  But this guy just had a glass of water.   Killing someone over having someone step on his pride is murder.  That is a good argument for not accepting everyone being armed. .
 
2014-06-15 03:00:23 PM
A felon can claim self defense, but will still be guilty of unlawful posession of a firearm.

There's a giggle-inducing loophole in Georgia law about that. If you were convicted of antitrust violations or restraint of trade, the state can give you back your firearms-owning privileges even if the feds haven't. All other ex-felons have to get the feds to let them own guns first.
 
2014-06-15 03:06:36 PM

LazyMedia: A felon can claim self defense, but will still be guilty of unlawful posession of a firearm.

There's a giggle-inducing loophole in Georgia law about that. If you were convicted of antitrust violations or restraint of trade, the state can give you back your firearms-owning privileges even if the feds haven't. All other ex-felons have to get the feds to let them own guns first.


How, exactly, does Georgia state law supersede the federal prohibition?
 
2014-06-15 03:10:57 PM
And this is why the "Legal system" grinds so slowly Thankful we don't have any "Awful houses" around. What kind of "club" let's these people in. I bet the "victim" thought he was being a real stud, until he saw that flash.
 You don't kill them, just wing them. At least when I feel the need to carry a firearm, not very often at all, just try to avoid those places, at least I do it wearing a shirt with a built in holster. Have A valid CCP, and don't stir anything up. Unless you're in a movie theatre in Tampa.
 
2014-06-15 03:14:23 PM

joshik72: Georgia has a "Stand Your Ground" law:

http://www.georgiapacking.org/GaCode/ ?title=16&chapter=3&section=23.1

Could this apply here in the shooter's defense? If the cook felt "legimately threatened" by the behavior of the belligerent customer, would SYG grant him the right to shoot?


Not if he's black.
 
2014-06-15 03:17:25 PM

Dimensio: LazyMedia: A felon can claim self defense, but will still be guilty of unlawful posession of a firearm.

There's a giggle-inducing loophole in Georgia law about that. If you were convicted of antitrust violations or restraint of trade, the state can give you back your firearms-owning privileges even if the feds haven't. All other ex-felons have to get the feds to let them own guns first.

How, exactly, does Georgia state law supersede the federal prohibition?


I'm not sure, but here's the code section:

(d) A person who has been convicted of a felony, but who has been granted relief from the disabilities imposed by the laws of the United States with respect to the acquisition, receipt, transfer, shipment, or possession of firearms by the secretary of the United States Department of the Treasury pursuant to 18 U.S.C. Section 925, shall, upon presenting to the Board of Public Safety proof that the relief has been granted and it being established from proof submitted by the applicant to the satisfaction of the Board of Public Safety that the circumstances regarding the conviction and the applicant's record and reputation are such that the acquisition, receipt, transfer, shipment, or possession of firearms by the person would not present a threat to the safety of the citizens of Georgia and that the granting of the relief sought would not be contrary to the public interest, be granted relief from the disabilities imposed by this Code section. A person who has been convicted under federal or state law of a felony pertaining to antitrust violations, unfair trade practices, or restraint of trade shall, upon presenting to the Board of Public Safety proof, and it being established from said proof, submitted by the applicant to the satisfaction of the Board of Public Safety that the circumstances regarding the conviction and the applicant's record and reputation are such that the acquisition, receipt, transfer, shipment, or possession of firearms by the person would not present a threat to the safety of the citizens of Georgia and that the granting of the relief sought would not be contrary to the public interest, be granted relief from the disabilities imposed by this Code section. A record that the relief has been granted by the board shall be entered upon the criminal history of the person maintained by the Georgia Crime Information Center and the board shall maintain a list of the names of such persons which shall be open for public inspection.
 
2014-06-15 03:29:19 PM
Not a single picture of Steven Seagal anywhere? Bizarro Fark is a weird place.
 
2014-06-15 03:30:48 PM

LazyMedia: 99.998er: wellreadneck: I'm fairly certain the "I'm gonna fire you up" threat had more to do with the shooting than this "just a glass of water" angle being played up.

This article implies the cook said "I'm gonna fire you up", however the AJC says the diner said it.

From AJC:
After that, Haley said the two men "got into it with the cook and the guy that got shot, he threatened the cook. He told him, you come outside and I'm going to fire you up, which basically meant he wanted to shoot him."

The law doesn't allow you to shoot people because you fear that they're going to shoot you in the future, but unfortunately, many MANY convicted killers shoot for that very reason, believing it to be an act of self defense. Most "gang violence" killings are just personal disputes between those who are "keepin' it real."


I agree with you. Regardless who said what, it is still a senseless killing. The law itself is way too ambiguous. I feel it gives a false sense of righteousness, like the guy in Florida that killed the kid at the convenience store for playing his music too loud.

I do feel for the WH kid, however. Shiat job, shiat shift, shiat neighborhood, shiat customers. I would bet he took Marta to & from work. I would carry a gun too if I had to live like that, and I have never owned a gun in my life.
 
2014-06-15 03:34:37 PM

LazyMedia: Giltric: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: DrBrownCow: According to a different article, he did not have a permit to have a concealed handgun.

So, just a plain old Responsible Gun Owner.

Probably a guy with prior felonies who votes democrat 98% of the time.

Own that shiat son.

Convicted felons can vote now? Do tell. And you could shorten what you really mean with just one word. We all know what it is; own that shiat.


Statistics say a certain segment of the population disproportionately makes up a majority of the statistics of perpetrators of gun homicide. Do you have a cite to counter my claim? Facts having a liberal bias and all that. Maybe its a grand conspiracy perpetrated by Whitey. AKA The Man. I mean when someone says "responsible gun owner" are you running out to find the token picture of the protester with the placard that says we came unarmed this time in order to vilify as many people as possible?

In Georgia a convicted felon can vote after the terms of their incarceration or probation are met.

In some states you can vote from jail.
 
2014-06-15 03:38:16 PM

99.998er: I do feel for the WH kid, however. Shiat job, shiat shift, shiat neighborhood, shiat customers. I would bet he took Marta to & from work. I would carry a gun too if I had to live like that, and I have never owned a gun in my life.


What if the guy is working at the waffle house because nobody else will hire him because of priors?

Is it Waffle Houses fault he is working their or his?
 
2014-06-15 04:10:57 PM

unknownshooter: How many times can they punch you before it's ok to shoot?


According to a large number of Farkers, they're entitled to punch you until you're dead. Then, once they've used lethal force on you, you're justified in responding with lethal force. Until then, however, if you don't just take your beating like a man, you're a GUN PUSSY LOL, SHOULD JUST FIGHT LIKE A MAN, STUPID RACIST.
 
2014-06-15 04:20:00 PM

UNC_Samurai: To be fair, the customer asked for scattered and chunked.


+3 would snicker again
 
2014-06-15 05:03:09 PM

Giltric: 99.998er: I do feel for the WH kid, however. Shiat job, shiat shift, shiat neighborhood, shiat customers. I would bet he took Marta to & from work. I would carry a gun too if I had to live like that, and I have never owned a gun in my life.

What if the guy is working at the waffle house because nobody else will hire him because of priors?

Is it Waffle Houses fault he is working their or his?


No, of course not. His orthopedic surgeon father and attorney mother bent over backwards for him. Sent him to the finest schools, provided him with a luxury import car, and a generous allowance. He had all the opportunity in the world, but his true calling was hash browns, you twat.

Some people are not as fortunate as you. Once you are the bottom it is nearly impossible to climb back up to ground level. At least this guy was trying to make an honest living. Did anybody say no to Martha Stewart when she got out of prison for a felony? No, and I wonder why. Get off your bootstrappy BS and try to understand how hard it can be on someone born with little chance of success. And yes, before you say it, I know it has been done before and it can be done. However the odds are stacked heavily against him.
 
2014-06-15 06:12:27 PM

AngryDragon: Giltric: cook seems like a felon based on priors through a google search

Can felons claim SYG with a  firearm when the possession of a firearm makes them a prohibited person based on prior felonies?

They were recently trying to pass a law that allows felons to shoot people in Georgia but I havent followed up on the law.

No they can't.  SYG, Castle Doctrine, et. al. are only valid if the shooter is acting lawfully.  A felon in possession of a firearm is universally in violation of the law, in fact committing a felony.


Not quite. The SCOTUS has ruled that a felon can pick up and use a firearm in legitimate self defense even if he's barred from possessing it. Legitimate self defense trumps it under "choice of evils". He can't own it, can't carry it, so on and so forth, but he doesn't give up his right to self defense.
 
2014-06-15 11:34:20 PM

Dragonflew: Elliot8654: Yep. So if someone throws water at you, murder them.

This actually seems to be the conclusion the gun nuts in this thread have come to.


Really? Please show me where any gun rights advocate said that this was a justified shooting based merely on the fact that someone threw a glass of water in the cook's face.  I'm sure you can point to one, yes?
 
2014-06-16 09:04:05 AM
Amateur.  Around here, one of the waffle house's gets a drop by threat via grenade at least twice a year.  Both times it was live, but the police were able to successfully talk him/her out of pulling the pin.
 
2014-06-16 12:01:40 PM

doglover: Poverty and lack of social mobility breeds violence. Violent places make children grow up into people violent. Violent people do things like this. You see this trend in every epoch in every nation in every history book.

But yes, guns are the problem.


Guns are not the problem.  People with guns is the problem.
 
2014-06-16 01:49:32 PM
Order up: double hashbrowns capped, smothered, and diving for covered!
 
2014-06-16 03:52:43 PM

skinink: "What does this sticky note mean, that my next pickup is here in the Waffle House?"

[lifeoblog.files.wordpress.com image 850x477]


"He brought his biatch to the Waffle Hut!"
 
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