If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Major League Baseball)   Jimmy Rollins takes another small step towards Cooperstown after becoming the all-time Philadelphia hit leader, passing HOF legend Mike Schmidt   (mlb.mlb.com) divider line 47
    More: Spiffy  
•       •       •

204 clicks; posted to Sports » on 15 Jun 2014 at 3:20 AM (15 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



47 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-06-15 12:22:34 AM
I don't know about Cooperstown, he's still several hundred hits short of 3,000.  He's wearing a World Series ring and he was MVP once.  He won four Gold Gloves and was on three All Star teams (all fairly early in his career).  That doesn't speak to a first ballot HOF inductee.  Perhaps fifth or sixth ballot, perhaps never.  Whatever, all that can be said that with this record in the bag is that Rollins is ever so much nearer for playing the rest of his career in another uniform.
 
2014-06-15 12:43:05 AM

Prey4reign: I don't know about Cooperstown, he's still several hundred hits short of 3,000.  He's wearing a World Series ring and he was MVP once.  He won four Gold Gloves and was on three All Star teams (all fairly early in his career).  That doesn't speak to a first ballot HOF inductee.  Perhaps fifth or sixth ballot, perhaps never.  Whatever, all that can be said that with this record in the bag is that Rollins is ever so much nearer for playing the rest of his career in another uniform.


Schmidt made some decent comments about him being on pace, but still needing 3-4 good years which honestly isn't going to happen. He'll end up being on the ballot for years but he'll most likely be hall of very good.

Now as a local HOFer, he'll get his number retired the year after he is done and he'll get in the rings of honor type setup for Philly.
 
2014-06-15 03:23:06 AM
Is this the guy who has already hit 2 inside the park home runs this year?
 
2014-06-15 03:59:55 AM
Does Philly have the oldest roster in baseball? Looking at Baseball Reference I see ages 35, 34, 35, 35, 24, 26, 26, 36. They are just a few years younger than Sandberg!
 
2014-06-15 05:05:16 AM
Who?
 
2014-06-15 05:31:46 AM

inclemency: Who?


He's a baseball player not a soccer player everyone who follows sports knows who he is.
 
2014-06-15 05:45:12 AM

Prey4reign: I don't know about Cooperstown, he's still several hundred hits short of 3,000.  He's wearing a World Series ring and he was MVP once.  He won four Gold Gloves and was on three All Star teams (all fairly early in his career).  That doesn't speak to a first ballot HOF inductee.  Perhaps fifth or sixth ballot, perhaps never.  Whatever, all that can be said that with this record in the bag is that Rollins is ever so much nearer for playing the rest of his career in another uniform.


Rollins is a shortstop so he doesn't need 3000 hits to get into the HOF because shortstops are evaluated more heavily on defense than other positions.  If he ends his career with a hit total over 2500, he's a shoo-in barring any rumors of using PEDs.

Also, Schmidt got in on primarily because he hit 548 homers in addition to his 2,234 hits and was one of the top power hitters of the 70s and 80s.  His defensive work at third base was just an additional plus.
 
2014-06-15 07:24:59 AM
HOF for Rollins?


bahahahahahahahahahaa, thats hysterical
 
2014-06-15 08:17:16 AM

Ima10urin8: HOF for Rollins?


bahahahahahahahahahaa, thats hysterical


Maybe for Seth Rollins
 
2014-06-15 09:21:46 AM
I side with TheManofPA. He'll get honored in Philly. But he's not a Hall of Famer. Maybe in 30-40% land on the ballot.
 
2014-06-15 09:36:54 AM

Ima10urin8: HOF for Rollins?


bahahahahahahahahahaa, thats hysterical


Phil_rizzuto.jpg
 
2014-06-15 10:00:04 AM

zerkalo: Does Philly have the oldest roster in baseball? Looking at Baseball Reference I see ages 35, 34, 35, 35, 24, 26, 26, 36. They are just a few years younger than Sandberg!


I think there's an average team age on b ref, and Philly is indeed old buuuuut Yankees actually managed to be one year older on avg.
 
2014-06-15 10:10:12 AM

johnny_vegas: Phil_rizzuto.jpg


Was a fabulous defensive shortstop, lost ages 25-27 to WWII, played on seven WS champions, then had a hall of fame-worthy broadcasting career and was still put in the Hall by the veterans committee 38 years after he retired.
 
2014-06-15 10:17:13 AM

WTF Indeed: johnny_vegas: Phil_rizzuto.jpg

Was a fabulous defensive shortstop, lost ages 25-27 to WWII, played on seven WS champions, then had a hall of fame-worthy broadcasting career and was still put in the Hall by the veterans committee 38 years after he retired.


exactly
 
2014-06-15 10:44:55 AM

NDP2: Prey4reign: I don't know about Cooperstown, he's still several hundred hits short of 3,000.  He's wearing a World Series ring and he was MVP once.  He won four Gold Gloves and was on three All Star teams (all fairly early in his career).  That doesn't speak to a first ballot HOF inductee.  Perhaps fifth or sixth ballot, perhaps never.  Whatever, all that can be said that with this record in the bag is that Rollins is ever so much nearer for playing the rest of his career in another uniform.

Rollins is a shortstop so he doesn't need 3000 hits to get into the HOF because shortstops are evaluated more heavily on defense than other positions.  If he ends his career with a hit total over 2500, he's a shoo-in barring any rumors of using PEDs.



Ripken and Jeter passed 3,000 hits, so the bar is set higher at short offensively than it used to be. Four gold gloves won't cut it unless he takes a big bite out of that deficit, and he's barely a .250 hitter over the past 5+ seasons.
 
2014-06-15 10:52:04 AM
I know he's second base, but if Craig Biggio is maybe a third ballot then Rollins should be a long shot.
 
2014-06-15 11:01:42 AM

dikkcor28: I know he's second base, but if Craig Biggio is maybe a third ballot then Rollins should be a long shot.


This.
 
2014-06-15 11:12:52 AM
I don't know how to feel about this.
Schmidt is my favorite baseball player of all time, so it saddens me to see one of his records broken.
On the other hand, the Phils suck so bad this year, having anything to cheer for is nice.
 
2014-06-15 11:17:09 AM
If we're talking about current or recent Phillies, there are some other candidates.

I'd argue that Chase Utley's fantastic defense and very good bat should get him a look, but he's been injured too much.  No one's getting in with 840 RBI.  (Rollins has 858, so make of that what you will.)

WAR loves Utley, who is at 60.2 over 5947 PA.  Rollins is at 43.6 over 9180.

The guy I'd like to see get more consideration is Bobby Abreu.  Please stop laughing.

From 1998 to 2009, he averaged: 301/406/497, 21 hr, 39 doubles, and 28 steals a season.  Also 104 runs and 97 rbi a season.  So that'shiatting 300 with 20+ hr, almost 30 steals, almost 40 doubles, and about 100 runs and 100 rbi for 12 straight years.  That's really, really, really good.

WAR has him at 61 over 10013 PA.

/using bWAR just because.
 
2014-06-15 11:20:11 AM

dikkcor28: I know he's second base, but if Craig Biggio is maybe a third ballot then Rollins should be a long shot.


I still don't understand why Biggio wasn't first ballot.
 
2014-06-15 11:33:44 AM

farkinglizardking: dikkcor28: I know he's second base, but if Craig Biggio is maybe a third ballot then Rollins should be a long shot.

I still don't understand why Biggio wasn't first ballot.


Because the BBWAA are a bunch of petulant pearl-clutchers
 
2014-06-15 11:43:49 AM

steamingpile: inclemency: Who?

He's a baseball player not a soccer player everyone who follows sports knows who he is.


Whooooosssssshhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!

/knows who he is, but nice unnecessary dig at soccer.
 
2014-06-15 12:00:47 PM
For everyone who missed it in the last thread about rollins:

http://www.thegoodphight.com/2014/6/13/5805742/rollins-schmidt-amaro -i diot-walks
 
2014-06-15 12:12:33 PM

DeWayne Mann: For everyone who missed it in the last thread about rollins:

http://www.thegoodphight.com/2014/6/13/5805742/rollins-schmidt-amaro -i diot-walks


Another article praising your grandma. We get it. He was great. Jeesh
 
2014-06-15 12:22:07 PM

thecpt: DeWayne Mann: For everyone who missed it in the last thread about rollins:

http://www.thegoodphight.com/2014/6/13/5805742/rollins-schmidt-amaro -i diot-walks

Another article praising your grandma. We get it. He was great. Jeesh


I actually have a hard copy of that issue of Life magazine. It's an outstanding article.

...I probably should've gotten that signed, huh?
 
2014-06-15 12:48:28 PM

DeWayne Mann: For everyone who missed it in the last thread about rollins:

http://www.thegoodphight.com/2014/6/13/5805742/rollins-schmidt-amaro -i diot-walks


So,,,, how the fark does Amaro still have a job?

The Phillies aren't, say, the Mariners or Rockies, two teams whose ownership doesn't seem THAT invested in winning (yes, the Mariners appear to be on their way up.)  As much as I like seeing the Phillies fall apart, it makes no sense to me.
 
2014-06-15 01:06:22 PM

Dafatone: DeWayne Mann: For everyone who missed it in the last thread about rollins:

http://www.thegoodphight.com/2014/6/13/5805742/rollins-schmidt-amaro -i diot-walks

So,,,, how the fark does Amaro still have a job?

The Phillies aren't, say, the Mariners or Rockies, two teams whose ownership doesn't seem THAT invested in winning (yes, the Mariners appear to be on their way up.)  As much as I like seeing the Phillies fall apart, it makes no sense to me.


I've generally been assuming "blackmail"
 
2014-06-15 01:13:14 PM

Dafatone: If we're talking about current or recent Phillies, there are some other candidates.

I'd argue that Chase Utley's fantastic defense and very good bat should get him a look, but he's been injured too much.  No one's getting in with 840 RBI.  (Rollins has 858, so make of that what you will.)

WAR loves Utley, who is at 60.2 over 5947 PA.  Rollins is at 43.6 over 9180.

The guy I'd like to see get more consideration is Bobby Abreu.  Please stop laughing.

From 1998 to 2009, he averaged: 301/406/497, 21 hr, 39 doubles, and 28 steals a season.  Also 104 runs and 97 rbi a season.  So that'shiatting 300 with 20+ hr, almost 30 steals, almost 40 doubles, and about 100 runs and 100 rbi for 12 straight years.  That's really, really, really good.

WAR has him at 61 over 10013 PA.

/using bWAR just because.


I'm not laughing at Abreu. He's not a lock, but he definitely deserves a good hard look. I'd vote for Utley too, but I agree that he probably won't get in. Rollins just wasn't actually good for long enough, though. Unless he has a much better last couple years than anyone expects, he'll fall a bit short.
 
2014-06-15 01:26:26 PM

Dafatone: DeWayne Mann: For everyone who missed it in the last thread about rollins:

http://www.thegoodphight.com/2014/6/13/5805742/rollins-schmidt-amaro -i diot-walks

So,,,, how the fark does Amaro still have a job?

The Phillies aren't, say, the Mariners or Rockies, two teams whose ownership doesn't seem THAT invested in winning (yes, the Mariners appear to be on their way up.)  As much as I like seeing the Phillies fall apart, it makes no sense to me.


Amaro will be gone after this season so hopefully they'll bottom out agin. You are right though, Phillies/Eagles do have ownership that cares about winning titles instead of just bottom line. I feel bad for my wife's family as Pirates fans. The Phillies with that young talent would have moved forward, the Pirates owner just wants people to believe, buy tickets, and then never invest more than the minimum. When they tank again, he'll just resell a rebuilding year and the latest prospect.
 
2014-06-15 02:16:26 PM

jmr61: steamingpile: inclemency: Who?

He's a baseball player not a soccer player everyone who follows sports the idiotic sport of baseball knows who he is.

FTFY

Baseball sucks.

Always has, always will.


ic.pics.livejournal.com
 
2014-06-15 03:33:34 PM

inclemency: Who?


This is the Sports tab. The Geek tab is two over.
 
2014-06-15 05:24:51 PM

dikkcor28: I know he's second base, but if Craig Biggio is maybe a third ballot then Rollins should be a long shot.


Fact: There are only three people with 3000+ hits, 350+ steals and 250+ HR.

Rickey Henderson, Derek Jeter and Craig Biggio.
 
2014-06-15 08:21:44 PM

Jakesta: inclemency: Who?

This is the Sports tab. The Geek tab is two over.


Way to read the thread before posting. Good job.

a) I'm a big baseball fan who knows who Rollins is.
b) After some other poster got all bent out of shape I explained that.

And this isn't high school, maybe I could be a geek AND a baseball fan. In fact, most hardcore baseball fans I know are geeks.

To summarize: fark you, idiot.
 
2014-06-15 08:22:39 PM
....unless you were fishing. If you were,I'd appreciate you helping take the hook out of my cheek.
 
2014-06-15 08:46:14 PM

inclemency: Jakesta: inclemency: Who?

This is the Sports tab. The Geek tab is two over.

Way to read the thread before posting. Good job.

a) I'm a big baseball fan who knows who Rollins is.
b) After some other poster got all bent out of shape I explained that.

And this isn't high school, maybe I could be a geek AND a baseball fan. In fact, most hardcore baseball fans I know are geeks.

To summarize: fark you, idiot.


Oh, I get it. By posting "Who?" you were trying to be funny. Jokes are so much better when you have to explain them.
 
2014-06-15 09:46:48 PM

DeWayne Mann: For everyone who missed it in the last thread about rollins:

http://www.thegoodphight.com/2014/6/13/5805742/rollins-schmidt-amaro -i diot-walks


I find articles like this irritating, actually. On the one hand, it's correct to say that walks matter and therefore OBP is a superior metric to batting average. On the other hand, it devotes several paragraphs to making the concept more complicated than it has to be. I think this repels people. That whole paragraph saying "a .380 OBP is better than a .320 OBP because, when you think hard about it, one is out only 62% of the time while the other is out only 68% of the time, and so you can see the former is better because outs are how you end the game and non-outs aren't" can be replaced with a simple "no shiat, Sherlock." Walks are good because they can turn into runs and we have the data to prove it.

And I find a lot of writing on BBP, Fangraphs and various SBN sites to have this flaw. You don't need to do mental pirouettes to impress upon people how deep a thinker you are. As a lot of baseball folks say, the great ones make it look easy.
 
2014-06-15 10:08:06 PM

Jakesta: inclemency: Jakesta: inclemency: Who?

This is the Sports tab. The Geek tab is two over.

Way to read the thread before posting. Good job.

a) I'm a big baseball fan who knows who Rollins is.
b) After some other poster got all bent out of shape I explained that.

And this isn't high school, maybe I could be a geek AND a baseball fan. In fact, most hardcore baseball fans I know are geeks.

To summarize: fark you, idiot.

Oh, I get it. By posting "Who?" you were trying to be funny. Jokes are so much better when you have to explain them.


I agree that explaining jokes kinda spoils them, but it's an unfortunate requirement when dealing with some people.

Some very stupid people.
 
2014-06-15 10:13:38 PM

inclemency: Jakesta: inclemency: Jakesta: inclemency: Who?

This is the Sports tab. The Geek tab is two over.

Way to read the thread before posting. Good job.

a) I'm a big baseball fan who knows who Rollins is.
b) After some other poster got all bent out of shape I explained that.

And this isn't high school, maybe I could be a geek AND a baseball fan. In fact, most hardcore baseball fans I know are geeks.

To summarize: fark you, idiot.

Oh, I get it. By posting "Who?" you were trying to be funny. Jokes are so much better when you have to explain them.

I agree that explaining jokes kinda spoils them, but it's an unfortunate requirement when dealing with some people.

Some very stupid people.


You're so cute. Trying to backpedal out of your lame attempt at humor. Please continue. I find it quite amusing.
 
2014-06-15 10:33:06 PM

Jakesta: inclemency: Jakesta: inclemency: Jakesta: inclemency: Who?

This is the Sports tab. The Geek tab is two over.

Way to read the thread before posting. Good job.

a) I'm a big baseball fan who knows who Rollins is.
b) After some other poster got all bent out of shape I explained that.

And this isn't high school, maybe I could be a geek AND a baseball fan. In fact, most hardcore baseball fans I know are geeks.

To summarize: fark you, idiot.

Oh, I get it. By posting "Who?" you were trying to be funny. Jokes are so much better when you have to explain them.

I agree that explaining jokes kinda spoils them, but it's an unfortunate requirement when dealing with some people.

Some very stupid people.

You're so cute. Trying to backpedal out of your lame attempt at humor. Please continue. I find it quite amusing.


Backpedal? You're the one who was SO DESPERATE to call me a nerd that you couldn't even read a few posts down to see the reveal before feverishly typing an unfunny and strange (because a Venn diagram of nerds and baseball fans most certainly intersects) retort that was unrequested.

Feel better soon, idiot.
 
2014-06-15 10:44:57 PM

inclemency: Jakesta: inclemency: Jakesta: inclemency: Jakesta: inclemency: Who?

This is the Sports tab. The Geek tab is two over.

Way to read the thread before posting. Good job.

a) I'm a big baseball fan who knows who Rollins is.
b) After some other poster got all bent out of shape I explained that.

And this isn't high school, maybe I could be a geek AND a baseball fan. In fact, most hardcore baseball fans I know are geeks.

To summarize: fark you, idiot.

Oh, I get it. By posting "Who?" you were trying to be funny. Jokes are so much better when you have to explain them.

I agree that explaining jokes kinda spoils them, but it's an unfortunate requirement when dealing with some people.

Some very stupid people.

You're so cute. Trying to backpedal out of your lame attempt at humor. Please continue. I find it quite amusing.

Backpedal? You're the one who was SO DESPERATE to call me a nerd that you couldn't even read a few posts down to see the reveal before feverishly typing an unfunny and strange (because a Venn diagram of nerds and baseball fans most certainly intersects) retort that was unrequested.

Feel better soon, idiot.


And he continues! Thank you. You are really making my night.
 
2014-06-15 11:01:18 PM

Jakesta: inclemency: Jakesta: inclemency: Jakesta: inclemency: Jakesta: inclemency: Who?

This is the Sports tab. The Geek tab is two over.

Way to read the thread before posting. Good job.

a) I'm a big baseball fan who knows who Rollins is.
b) After some other poster got all bent out of shape I explained that.

And this isn't high school, maybe I could be a geek AND a baseball fan. In fact, most hardcore baseball fans I know are geeks.

To summarize: fark you, idiot.

Oh, I get it. By posting "Who?" you were trying to be funny. Jokes are so much better when you have to explain them.

I agree that explaining jokes kinda spoils them, but it's an unfortunate requirement when dealing with some people.

Some very stupid people.

You're so cute. Trying to backpedal out of your lame attempt at humor. Please continue. I find it quite amusing.

Backpedal? You're the one who was SO DESPERATE to call me a nerd that you couldn't even read a few posts down to see the reveal before feverishly typing an unfunny and strange (because a Venn diagram of nerds and baseball fans most certainly intersects) retort that was unrequested.

Feel better soon, idiot.

And he continues! Thank you. You are really making my night.


Happy to be of service. Befuddled by your amusement, but happy to be of service.
 
2014-06-15 11:14:57 PM

inclemency: Jakesta: inclemency: Jakesta: inclemency: Jakesta: inclemency: Jakesta: inclemency: Who?

This is the Sports tab. The Geek tab is two over.

Way to read the thread before posting. Good job.

a) I'm a big baseball fan who knows who Rollins is.
b) After some other poster got all bent out of shape I explained that.

And this isn't high school, maybe I could be a geek AND a baseball fan. In fact, most hardcore baseball fans I know are geeks.

To summarize: fark you, idiot.

Oh, I get it. By posting "Who?" you were trying to be funny. Jokes are so much better when you have to explain them.

I agree that explaining jokes kinda spoils them, but it's an unfortunate requirement when dealing with some people.

Some very stupid people.

You're so cute. Trying to backpedal out of your lame attempt at humor. Please continue. I find it quite amusing.

Backpedal? You're the one who was SO DESPERATE to call me a nerd that you couldn't even read a few posts down to see the reveal before feverishly typing an unfunny and strange (because a Venn diagram of nerds and baseball fans most certainly intersects) retort that was unrequested.

Feel better soon, idiot.

And he continues! Thank you. You are really making my night.

Happy to be of service. Befuddled by your amusement, but happy to be of service.


Well, booze helps. Makes amusement easy
 
2014-06-15 11:23:34 PM

dikkcor28: I know he's second base, but if Craig Biggio is maybe a third ballot then Rollins should be a long shot.


Given he's gotten a while till Rollins is on the ballot, a lot can swing between now and then.  Biggio has the bad luck of being in the same first class as several of the alleged roid guys; Sosa, Bonds, and Clemens and just got caught up in that conversation not to mention it seems like a large group of potential HOF calibur guys are coming up recently. By the time Rollins is up that shouldn't be a problem.  It'll at least be on the merit of his own career and not of the integrity of others'
 
2014-06-15 11:55:49 PM
hell no.

1) the MVP he won was farking ridiculous. Pujols, Wright, Chipper or even Utley should've won it over Rollins.
2) career WAR is pretty goddamn low for a HOF'er. Allan Trammel has 70.4 career bWAR. Andruw Jones has 62.8 Rollins has 43.6 None of those dudes are hall of famers (yet)
3) he had a short peak that wasn't high. He didn't maintain dominance or near to it over a long time to offset that. he went from "ok" to "that's really decent" for 5 years, then back to "ok".
 
2014-06-16 01:23:26 AM

Jakesta: inclemency: Jakesta: inclemency: Jakesta: inclemency: Jakesta: inclemency: Jakesta: inclemency: Who?

This is the Sports tab. The Geek tab is two over.

Way to read the thread before posting. Good job.

a) I'm a big baseball fan who knows who Rollins is.
b) After some other poster got all bent out of shape I explained that.

And this isn't high school, maybe I could be a geek AND a baseball fan. In fact, most hardcore baseball fans I know are geeks.

To summarize: fark you, idiot.

Oh, I get it. By posting "Who?" you were trying to be funny. Jokes are so much better when you have to explain them.

I agree that explaining jokes kinda spoils them, but it's an unfortunate requirement when dealing with some people.

Some very stupid people.

You're so cute. Trying to backpedal out of your lame attempt at humor. Please continue. I find it quite amusing.

Backpedal? You're the one who was SO DESPERATE to call me a nerd that you couldn't even read a few posts down to see the reveal before feverishly typing an unfunny and strange (because a Venn diagram of nerds and baseball fans most certainly intersects) retort that was unrequested.

Feel better soon, idiot.

And he continues! Thank you. You are really making my night.

Happy to be of service. Befuddled by your amusement, but happy to be of service.

Well, booze helps. Makes amusement easy


Agreed. I'll put down these stones in the hopes of saving my house. It's made of glass you see.
 
2014-06-16 10:33:13 AM

neon_god: I'm not laughing at Abreu. He's not a lock, but he definitely deserves a good hard look. I'd vote for Utley too, but I agree that he probably won't get in. Rollins just wasn't actually good for long enough, though. Unless he has a much better last couple years than anyone expects, he'll fall a bit short.


Abreu has been a pretty good all-around offensive player-- solid ~25 HR power in his prime, good base stealer with an acceptable success rate, and an excellent OBP (.396).  He's one of 78 guys in all of history who have made 10,000 trips to the plate, and you take a hard look at anyone who was asked to play at the major-league level that much.  His problems:

1) He was a poor defender at a relatively easy position.  If he was even an average CF, I think he's in.
2) His main selling point (OBP) wasn't so amazing that it pulls his case by itself-- 77th all time, behind guys like John Olerud and Brian Giles.
3) The voters typically go for guys who were amazing at one thing (see yesterday's Lou Brock thread) over guys who were very good at many things, which is dumb but how things presently work.
4) He never had a high "peak".  Never even made the top 10 in the MVP voting.  Only made the All-Star game twice.  Just very steadily put up 5-6 WAR seasons in his prime, then slowly faded.

Utley needs longevity.  If he can somehow stay on the field (tough for an aging middle infielder) and have a good second act, he has an easy case.  Excellent (and underrated) defender at a premium position.  On offense, he's basically Bobby Abreu-- .288/.373/.497 for Utley, .292/.396/.477 for Abreu.  He runs well, seems well-liked, and has played his whole career in one uniform, which always sways a few more voters.  Unfortunately, Ryan Howard's bloated contract blocks the most sensible next step-- Utley pulling a Rod Carew and doing that second act at 1B.

Rollins could become the worst hitter to amass 3,000 hits.  (That's still a very good player.)  He's actually been an above-average (though never amazing) shortstop for his career, so the offensive bar is very low.  He has more power and speed than a lot of glove-first guys, so we're not talking an Ozzie Smith standard for defense.  That glove may also keep him on the field past his bat's expiration date--- after this season he'll need less than 700 hits for 3,000, which he'll probably reach if he can play until he's 40.

It's not hard to imagine Rollins finding a way to be Old Omar Vizquel for a few seasons, Philadelphia or otherwise.  He'll need to stay on the field longer, but he'll probably get in if he does.  I don't think he'll deserve it (he's neither Ozzie with the glove nor Jeter with the bat), but it's not crazy to think he'll get in.
 
2014-06-16 11:31:35 AM

chimp_ninja: neon_god: I'm not laughing at Abreu. He's not a lock, but he definitely deserves a good hard look. I'd vote for Utley too, but I agree that he probably won't get in. Rollins just wasn't actually good for long enough, though. Unless he has a much better last couple years than anyone expects, he'll fall a bit short.

Abreu has been a pretty good all-around offensive player-- solid ~25 HR power in his prime, good base stealer with an acceptable success rate, and an excellent OBP (.396).  He's one of 78 guys in all of history who have made 10,000 trips to the plate, and you take a hard look at anyone who was asked to play at the major-league level that much.  His problems:

1) He was a poor defender at a relatively easy position.  If he was even an average CF, I think he's in.
2) His main selling point (OBP) wasn't so amazing that it pulls his case by itself-- 77th all time, behind guys like John Olerud and Brian Giles.
3) The voters typically go for guys who were amazing at one thing (see yesterday's Lou Brock thread) over guys who were very good at many things, which is dumb but how things presently work.
4) He never had a high "peak".  Never even made the top 10 in the MVP voting.  Only made the All-Star game twice.  Just very steadily put up 5-6 WAR seasons in his prime, then slowly faded.

Utley needs longevity.  If he can somehow stay on the field (tough for an aging middle infielder) and have a good second act, he has an easy case.  Excellent (and underrated) defender at a premium position.  On offense, he's basically Bobby Abreu-- .288/.373/.497 for Utley, .292/.396/.477 for Abreu.  He runs well, seems well-liked, and has played his whole career in one uniform, which always sways a few more voters.  Unfortunately, Ryan Howard's bloated contract blocks the most sensible next step-- Utley pulling a Rod Carew and doing that second act at 1B.

Rollins could become the worst hitter to amass 3,000 hits.  (That's still a very good player.)  He's actually been an above-average (though never amazing) shortstop for his career, so the offensive bar is very low.  He has more power and speed than a lot of glove-first guys, so we're not talking an Ozzie Smith standard for defense.  That glove may also keep him on the field past his bat's expiration date--- after this season he'll need less than 700 hits for 3,000, which he'll probably reach if he can play until he's 40.

It's not hard to imagine Rollins finding a way to be Old Omar Vizquel for a few seasons, Philadelphia or otherwise.  He'll need to stay on the field longer, but he'll probably get in if he does.  I don't think he'll deserve it (he's neither Ozzie with the glove nor Jeter with the bat), but it's not crazy to think he'll get in.


Agree with everything you said about Abreu. I honestly kind of doubt he'll get in, I just think he deserves serious consideration. Utley, I'm also not sure. A good last leg of his career would be nice, but there really aren't any milestones for him to grab. His case will remain the same: great bat for interior infield, excellent D, good speed, hurt too much. I'd probably vote yes if he retired today, but not sure the voters will agree.
I could see Rollins getting in very easily in the way you described, but I'd like to see a higher peak from a potential HOF candidate. He was a 5 win player only twice, while Abreu did it seven times in a row and Utley cracked 7 wins 5 seasons in a row.
 
Displayed 47 of 47 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report