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(CBS Los Angeles 2)   If Baghdad falls, today's gas prices will "look like a bargain in a couple weeks". Happy vacation season, everyone   (losangeles.cbslocal.com) divider line 86
    More: Scary, Baghdad, head of government, KNX  
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8662 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jun 2014 at 5:01 PM (26 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-06-14 05:21:39 PM  
16 votes:

zerkalo: And another civil war begins. It's gonna be armagheddon, millions slaughtered


Don't know about millions- maybe over the entire timeframe. But it was obvious what was going to happen at the outset.

The US keeps thinking they can do this thing where they go in with the military, kick some ass for a while, spend a bunch of money and then put in whatever government they want.

It simply doesn't work. Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan... the last time we managed to actually install a new government in a defeated enemy nation was pretty much Japan.

And nobody's willing to consider the price required to do it again. I've said it before and I'll stand by it- unless you're willing to see at least 15% of an entire generation dead, you're not going to win. If you want to completely destroy a government and replace it, you have to be willing to destroy their society and that means killing a lot of people. Whether it's bullets, bombs or nukes, you have to be willing to murder entire cities, not just individuals or small areas.

Until we remember that to defeat an enemy means to kill enough of them that the entire culture is broken, we'll keep coming back here. You can't engage in nation-building unless you're willing to engage in nation-destroying.

The reason we're so bad at it is that we can't stomach the cost unless it's imposed on us, as it was in World War II. When it's our own choice, we're not willing to do what's necessary to actually accomplish the goal. And that's why it's always been a bad idea, and will continue to be one because we spend blood and treasure for nothing.
2014-06-14 05:17:41 PM  
9 votes:
Which is absolute profiteering bull crap, as only 3% of US oil is imported from Iraq.
Farking treasonous, self-serving actions by the US oil industry.
2014-06-14 01:38:53 PM  
9 votes:
If we do nothing, gas prices go up.
If we do something, gas prices go up.
If the sun rises...
2014-06-14 05:09:58 PM  
7 votes:
All I'm saying is, next time we go to war for oil. Let's get some oil.
2014-06-14 05:34:04 PM  
5 votes:
Well then Obama gets his wish, why are y'all biatchin?

1.bp.blogspot.com
2014-06-14 06:09:16 PM  
4 votes:

rikkards: But yet the majority of oil imported into the US comes from Canada.


dilbert.com
2014-06-14 05:55:44 PM  
4 votes:
I really, really wish Obama would step up to the podium and say:

"Know what? We tried. We farking tried. It's come to the point that the United States has two options now...one, we turn Iraq into a glass parking lot, but we're not doing that. Our only other option is to bring everyone home. That's what we're doing. I'm sorry for the people that sided with us, but we honestly can't afford to police your country anymore, especially when a lot of the population sides with power-hungry assholes who are smart enough to make race and religion their bread and butter. If that's what you want, that's what you get.

"I get it, WE get it. You don't want us here. We're leaving. Good luck, you'll need it."
2014-06-14 06:38:08 PM  
3 votes:

zepher: The Bestest: zepher: "Al Qaeda has been decimated"
- Barack Obama, Nov. 1 2012

Is this incorrect?

You can't be serious.
There have been Al Qaeda flags being raised in every city ISIS has taken over.
You think Al Qaeda is really not out there anymore?


A lot of people think of Al Qaeda as a monolithic entity, a centrally controlled organization with coordinated activity all over. That's incorrect. "Al Qaeda" means "The Base" or maybe "The Foundation". it's not an umbrella organization, and isn't a central controlling entity. It's a network of affiliated, independent and sometimes opposed groups. Some are more militant and violent than others.

Al Qaeda supports these groups, but is not itself these groups. ISIS is not Al Qaeda, nor is ISIL- although it's not clear to me that those two are separate, they seem to be.
2014-06-14 05:50:24 PM  
3 votes:

hasty ambush: Well then Obama gets his wish, why are y'all biatchin?

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 333x400]


That would really be the best thing for this country in the long run.  Can you imagine the investment in alternative energies if fossil fuel costs tripled?  A solar panel on every house, new nuc facilities would be built, it would finally be profitable to collect the massive amount of natural gas that now is just burned in the field.  Hell, we'd be energy independent within 5 years and could be totally green within 20.  To bad the politicians don't have the guts to let it happen.
2014-06-14 05:34:05 PM  
3 votes:

some_beer_drinker: sounds hawt. let's get some boots on the ground.


Joking aside, I'm deadly serious. Unless the US is willing to commit to the kind of scale of warfare that we saw in WWII- utter devastation on a massive scale and concomitant casualties, we're just not going to have the results people seem to think we will. Unless you're willing to accept that we'd have to do what was done in Dresden, Osaka, Kassel, Darmstadt, London, and Berlin- completely destroy cities and commit the resources to see that it's actually done, and follow it up with, as you so prosaically put it, "boots on the ground", we're not going to see success in any "regime change" we ever attempt militarily.
2014-06-14 05:26:57 PM  
3 votes:
I drive less than 250 miles per year but when fuel prices go up then the price of everything goes up regardless of what you do personally
2014-06-14 05:14:19 PM  
3 votes:

Fark like a Barsoomian: All I'm saying is, next time we go to war for oil. Let's get some oil.


We should get the oil upfront.
2014-06-14 05:06:59 PM  
3 votes:

iheartscotch: Most of the current gas price is based on futures and speculation. But, I'd definitely refrain from fueling up within 48 hours of Baghdad's fall; if it happens.


They are going to speculate the SHIAT out of gas prices
2014-06-14 11:01:27 PM  
2 votes:

BolshyGreatYarblocks: But...but....but.....shale oil makes us a net oil exporter!!!!  We're the new Saudi Arabia!!!!


Nationalization of oil would end this. But socialism or something.
2014-06-14 10:39:15 PM  
2 votes:
ecx.images-amazon.com
//still relevant
2014-06-14 08:47:14 PM  
2 votes:
I better start practicing my "Nelson Muntz Laugh" for when the Metro Bus I'm riding on passes by those gas stations filled with scowling soccer Moms filling up their H2s.
2014-06-14 07:55:53 PM  
2 votes:
If you add the cost of our recent wars-for-oil to the cost of gas, we've been paying $10 per gallon for the last decade anyways.
2014-06-14 07:10:55 PM  
2 votes:

Cyclometh: zerkalo: And another civil war begins. It's gonna be armagheddon, millions slaughtered

Don't know about millions- maybe over the entire timeframe. But it was obvious what was going to happen at the outset.

The US keeps thinking they can do this thing where they go in with the military, kick some ass for a while, spend a bunch of money and then put in whatever government they want.

It simply doesn't work. Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan... the last time we managed to actually install a new government in a defeated enemy nation was pretty much Japan.

And nobody's willing to consider the price required to do it again. I've said it before and I'll stand by it- unless you're willing to see at least 15% of an entire generation dead, you're not going to win. If you want to completely destroy a government and replace it, you have to be willing to destroy their society and that means killing a lot of people. Whether it's bullets, bombs or nukes, you have to be willing to murder entire cities, not just individuals or small areas.

Until we remember that to defeat an enemy means to kill enough of them that the entire culture is broken, we'll keep coming back here. You can't engage in nation-building unless you're willing to engage in nation-destroying.

The reason we're so bad at it is that we can't stomach the cost unless it's imposed on us, as it was in World War II. When it's our own choice, we're not willing to do what's necessary to actually accomplish the goal. And that's why it's always been a bad idea, and will continue to be one because we spend blood and treasure for nothing.


Sadly, yes. Right on all points.
2014-06-14 06:13:48 PM  
2 votes:

Saturn5: rikkards: But yet the majority of oil imported into the US comes from Canada.


Scott Adams is pretty smug for someone who doesn't grasp the concept of supply and demand.
2014-06-14 06:13:30 PM  
2 votes:

RanDomino: Nemosomen: "If Baghdad falls" is a mighty big "if."  ISIS holds Tikrit?  Does that city support the current regime, or were they more supportive of Saddam Hussein al Tikriti's regime?

Baghdad might not fall, but it might need to be renamed "Mogadishu North".


It definitely won't fall. ISIS only has a few thousand men and they're overstretched already. The reason all the other cities "fell" is because a significantly larger (30K soldiers) and better equipped (tanks, air power) Iraqi security force was also majority Sunni, and not the least bit interested in fighting to support a corrupt and sectarian shiate government in Baghdad. (Imagine that those wacky Tea Party "we're gonna go arrest Obama" movements was making its way through Texas: the Texas National Guard would be far more likely to clear the road to DC for them than they would be to fight them.)

On the other hand, Baghdad is in a majority Shia area, and the able-bodied Shia men there will have no reluctance to defend the city vigorously. Ultimately, we're going to wind up with the sort of Sunni/Shia partitioning that we should've done in the first place
2014-06-14 06:11:56 PM  
2 votes:

jaytkay: "I think they're in the last throes, if you will, of the insurgency."
-- Dick Cheney, July 20, 2005


At the time they were.

But since we're posting snippy quotes, how about a few that are more relevant?

"I am very optimistic about -- about Iraq. I mean, this could be one of the great achievements of this administration. "
- Joe Biden, On CNN, February 2010

"Al Qaeda has been decimated"
- Barack Obama, Nov. 1 2012
2014-06-14 06:10:12 PM  
2 votes:
For all those talking about how the US is a net exporter of oil:

You're  technically correct (the best kind?) but failing to take into account that our refineries- which produce gasoline- are not typically set up or designed to refine the type of oil we produce domestically.

We export it because we can't refine it cheaply here. We could retool the infrastructure to do so but that comes with its own costs.

So for now we're still very much dependent on oil from foreign sources for our fuels.
2014-06-14 05:50:46 PM  
2 votes:
Millions of people chased from their homes as an authoritarian government composed of hard-line religious fundamentalists seizes huge swaths of territory in a country recently controlled by our own military in a vicious ~5 year insurgency? "Meh"

Gas prices could be affected? "OH GOD NO WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING!"
2014-06-14 05:36:38 PM  
2 votes:
The US is a net exporter of oil.
2014-06-14 05:18:18 PM  
2 votes:

IgG4: Was Iraq actually exporting any oil?


Well, for the Chinese, they were. We just provided the blood.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/03/world/middleeast/china-reaps-bigge st -benefits-of-iraq-oil-boom.html?pagewanted=all
2014-06-14 05:16:48 PM  
2 votes:
Obama planned this so he can okay the Keystone pipeline and look like he's a hero.
2014-06-14 04:52:03 PM  
2 votes:
2k8,

Thx 4 b'n my gf.

<3,
PRNCE WLM
2014-06-15 12:47:43 PM  
1 votes:
I see I mad a typo using  to, not too. THIS SITE NEEDS AN EDIT COMMENTS FEATURE, DREW!
2014-06-15 12:46:25 PM  
1 votes:
Iraq is some lines the British Empire drew on a map. There is nothing to make the people inside those lines a nation, as their ethnic tribal and religious differences are to great for them to overcome. The only thing that can hold together such a mishmash is a dictator like Marshall Tito in Yugoslavia, or dare I say, Saddam Hussein. Even though he was wicked and cruel, he kept order and stability in the region, and was a bulwark against Iran. Dumbya Bush's misadventure was a terrible disaster all the way around. What we need to do now is just keep our hands off, and wait until the next strongman rises to power.
2014-06-14 11:26:21 PM  
1 votes:

oh_please: Our only other option is to bring everyone home.


And leave our native contract interpreters and their families to be massacred by their neighbors.
2014-06-14 11:11:36 PM  
1 votes:
Well, now the rest of the country gets to feel what it's like to live in California when it comes to gas prices.

Your wages will stay the same and you'll be paying about 4.50/gal.

Except that those of us stuck behind enemy lines will be paying over 5/gal..

/sigh
2014-06-14 11:03:30 PM  
1 votes:

Phil Moskowitz: You shiatheads know that when they name something in public it's to get you scared of it, right? ISIS is a name, you should be afraid, you should pay attention to the viet cong, I mean ISIS.


I don't get why they gave a Muslim group the Greek name for an Egyptian goddess who was worshiped more than 2,500 years prior to the foundation of Islam.
2014-06-14 10:59:03 PM  
1 votes:
The oil cartels are rubbing their hands together in anticipation of another bullshiat excuse to fleece us. Then they'll leverage that to convince a few morons that Keystone XL would fix everything.

Watch.

Just. Farking. Watch.
2014-06-14 10:58:20 PM  
1 votes:

Matthew Keene: moeburn: I know what happens to l-ion batteries when you puncture them.


CSB: Last week I was building a battery pack and my co-worker accidentally shorted a lithium 18650 battery. This caused so much current to flow that it shorted internally and discharged itself in about one minute. It got hot as fark, but didn't burn. Those things are a LOT safer than they were a couple of years ago.

/CSB
2014-06-14 09:44:29 PM  
1 votes:
I knew those pieces of shiat would do this.  I'd take my broken ass back there now if only to shoot every Iraqi farker I see.
2014-06-14 09:16:29 PM  
1 votes:
You shiatheads know that when they name something in public it's to get you scared of it, right? ISIS is a name, you should be afraid, you should pay attention to the viet cong, I mean ISIS.
2014-06-14 09:16:25 PM  
1 votes:

Cyclometh: zerkalo: And another civil war begins. It's gonna be armagheddon, millions slaughtered

Don't know about millions- maybe over the entire timeframe. But it was obvious what was going to happen at the outset.

The US keeps thinking they can do this thing where they go in with the military, kick some ass for a while, spend a bunch of money and then put in whatever government they want.

It simply doesn't work. Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan... the last time we managed to actually install a new government in a defeated enemy nation was pretty much Japan.

And nobody's willing to consider the price required to do it again. I've said it before and I'll stand by it- unless you're willing to see at least 15% of an entire generation dead, you're not going to win. If you want to completely destroy a government and replace it, you have to be willing to destroy their society and that means killing a lot of people. Whether it's bullets, bombs or nukes, you have to be willing to murder entire cities, not just individuals or small areas.

Until we remember that to defeat an enemy means to kill enough of them that the entire culture is broken, we'll keep coming back here. You can't engage in nation-building unless you're willing to engage in nation-destroying.

The reason we're so bad at it is that we can't stomach the cost unless it's imposed on us, as it was in World War II. When it's our own choice, we're not willing to do what's necessary to actually accomplish the goal. And that's why it's always been a bad idea, and will continue to be one because we spend blood and treasure for nothing.


A very rational and sane description of why every war we've  gotten into since 2 has been a debacle. Killing people to stop those people from killing people doesn't work if you are not one of those peoples.
2014-06-14 09:15:15 PM  
1 votes:
Gas prices work as follows:

People have gas to sell. They want to make as much money as possible. They will use world events as a reason to raise prices, but never to lower them. They don't care what you think.
2014-06-14 09:08:04 PM  
1 votes:
Some day you farking people will stop falling for the scare tactics of the hedge fund investors. You'll either do that, or you'll just watch the economic system collapse like the goat sacrificing Romans who didn't see the germanic tribes coming.
2014-06-14 09:06:50 PM  
1 votes:

timelady: Cyclometh: gnosis301: Cyclometh: Japan's kind of a special case because nukes changed the game; look what happened to Japanese culture in the wake of those.

Go on.

To be fair, I'm oversimplifying things- this is Fark, after all. But it's quite clear that Japanese culture changed radically after its defeat and the occupation. There are arguments to be made that pre-war Japan wasn't all that different from post-war in many ways, and that the militaristic expansion and conquest phase it entered into that culminated in WWII was historically, maybe not an aberration, but not exactly typical.

But it's pretty clear that Japan's defeat required something pretty devastating, and that has had effects on its culture ever since.

Unless we're willing to conquer and occupy- and that means a lot of death or as someone else pointed out several generations of occupation (and probably more violence to suppress insurgency), none of which the US seems willing to do of late, believing (wrongly) that we can get to these places of changing a society without paying such a toll.

The one point I will raise to your otherwise excellent argument is that Japan was relatively isolated - China and Korea weren't allies. Germany had it's own issues, and was a totally separate culture (yes, I am not mentioning Italy). Here, despite the factions,(see below for further discussion), of Sunni, Shia and Kurd, they are above all Muslim - and that would mean, if the country of Iran were nuked, ever Muslim would be outraged - from Iraq to Saudi Arabia. Well, at leastpublicly, to appease their populace.

The Iranian issue post Saddam Hussein is more akin to the landscape post Tito/Yugoslavia. A factional, religious nightmare held together by iron gripped dictatorship. Remove that, and it explodes back into factional discord, each of which will fight for control. The US and allies (sadly, Australia was one) stepped into that quagmire, then into a worse one with tribal factions in Afghanistan.

/ one shoul ...


I assume you meant Iraq, not Iran. Anyway, there was this concept invented by Claude Levi-Strauss called structural-functionalism. It's essentially that you don't find people engaging in many cultural practices that don't mostly work for most of them most of the time. So when you see a fairly persistent totalitarian regime, you might consider that maybe it's that way because the other options are worse, and take a bit of care when acting to topple it. Of course, the opportunistic politicians, media hacks, and various flavors of ideologues and demagogues beating the drums for wars are either unaware of the structural-functionalist perspective, or choose to ignore it.
2014-06-14 08:57:54 PM  
1 votes:
On one of the financial shows today it was stated that the Saudis could increase production by not too much and it would completely cover any Iraq oil not making it on to the market.
2014-06-14 08:55:15 PM  
1 votes:
I give up.

LOL
2014-06-14 08:54:39 PM  
1 votes:
Auto correct whips me again!

Shiate = shiate
2014-06-14 08:52:23 PM  
1 votes:
Sunni dang nabbit.
2014-06-14 08:51:47 PM  
1 votes:

Nemosomen: "If Baghdad falls" is a mighty big "if."  ISIS holds Tikrit?  Does that city support the current regime, or were they more supportive of Saddam Hussein al Tikriti's regime?


Bingo.

Sunny cities fell easily to ISIS.

shiate cities aren't gonna capitulate so easily.
2014-06-14 08:28:46 PM  
1 votes:

zerkalo: Isis already holds Tikrit. Whether or not they can keep it is up in the air. Gas be going up either way




Tikrit is where Donald Rumsfeld said Saddam kept his WMDs.

If ISIS finds them, the stuff might really hit the fan.
2014-06-14 08:24:54 PM  
1 votes:

Cyclometh: gnosis301: Cyclometh: Japan's kind of a special case because nukes changed the game; look what happened to Japanese culture in the wake of those.

Go on.

To be fair, I'm oversimplifying things- this is Fark, after all. But it's quite clear that Japanese culture changed radically after its defeat and the occupation. There are arguments to be made that pre-war Japan wasn't all that different from post-war in many ways, and that the militaristic expansion and conquest phase it entered into that culminated in WWII was historically, maybe not an aberration, but not exactly typical.

But it's pretty clear that Japan's defeat required something pretty devastating, and that has had effects on its culture ever since.

Unless we're willing to conquer and occupy- and that means a lot of death or as someone else pointed out several generations of occupation (and probably more violence to suppress insurgency), none of which the US seems willing to do of late, believing (wrongly) that we can get to these places of changing a society without paying such a toll.


The one point I will raise to your otherwise excellent argument is that Japan was relatively isolated - China and Korea weren't allies. Germany had it's own issues, and was a totally separate culture (yes, I am not mentioning Italy). Here, despite the factions,(see below for further discussion), of Sunni, Shia and Kurd, they are above all Muslim - and that would mean, if the country of Iran were nuked, ever Muslim would be outraged - from Iraq to Saudi Arabia. Well, at leastpublicly, to appease their populace.

The Iranian issue post Saddam Hussein is more akin to the landscape post Tito/Yugoslavia. A factional, religious nightmare held together by iron gripped dictatorship. Remove that, and it explodes back into factional discord, each of which will fight for control. The US and allies (sadly, Australia was one) stepped into that quagmire, then into a worse one with tribal factions in Afghanistan.

/ one should not fight a land war in Central Asia
// or choose the wine glass with Ipocane
2014-06-14 07:04:45 PM  
1 votes:

ravenlore: fusillade762: gnosis301: Cyclometh: Japan's kind of a special case because nukes changed the game; look what happened to Japanese culture in the wake of those.

Go on.

Tentacle porn? Or did they have that before they got nuked?

"Dream of the Fisherman's Wife" is OLD.


Created in 1814.

/why the fark do I know that?
2014-06-14 07:02:52 PM  
1 votes:

fusillade762: gnosis301: Cyclometh: Japan's kind of a special case because nukes changed the game; look what happened to Japanese culture in the wake of those.

Go on.

Tentacle porn? Or did they have that before they got nuked?


"Dream of the Fisherman's Wife" is OLD.
2014-06-14 07:01:52 PM  
1 votes:

gnosis301: Cyclometh: Japan's kind of a special case because nukes changed the game; look what happened to Japanese culture in the wake of those.

Go on.


Tentacle porn? Or did they have that before they got nuked?
2014-06-14 06:59:51 PM  
1 votes:

Cyclometh: zepher: The Bestest: zepher: "Al Qaeda has been decimated"
- Barack Obama, Nov. 1 2012

Is this incorrect?

You can't be serious.
There have been Al Qaeda flags being raised in every city ISIS has taken over.
You think Al Qaeda is really not out there anymore?

A lot of people think of Al Qaeda as a monolithic entity, a centrally controlled organization with coordinated activity all over. That's incorrect. "Al Qaeda" means "The Base" or maybe "The Foundation". it's not an umbrella organization, and isn't a central controlling entity. It's a network of affiliated, independent and sometimes opposed groups. Some are more militant and violent than others.

Al Qaeda supports these groups, but is not itself these groups. ISIS is not Al Qaeda, nor is ISIL- although it's not clear to me that those two are separate, they seem to be.


Didn't Al Qaeda renounce them for being too violent? Or was that a different group? I can't keep my terrorist cliques straight these days.
2014-06-14 06:57:54 PM  
1 votes:

hasty ambush: Well then Obama gets his wish, why are y'all biatchin?

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 333x400]


They both can DIA(gasoline)F.

/drives a diesel, gets 52 mpg, suck it.
2014-06-14 06:52:10 PM  
1 votes:

Close2TheEdge: Except that despite all the right-wingers trying to gin up ISIS to either a) embarrass Obama, B) whip up sentiment for yet another military incursion, or C) all of the above, Baghdad is not about to fall anytime soon.  The group is likely to get wiped out by a combination force of Kurds, shiate militia groups, and Iran.  And then the country will be partitioned into three regions as probably should have happened 5 years ago.


You misspelled 75 years ago.
2014-06-14 06:47:32 PM  
1 votes:

caeroe: I'm late to the party but anyway...

Saddam should have been left in power. Ever heard of the expression "the devil you know"? At least with him we knew he could control the religious whackjobs.
It's a shame we can't sit back and let the two muslim factions kill each other, because of farking oil prices.


Oil prices, (or rather Saddam's threat to stop trading on the USD) is specifically why (the -real- reason, anyway) he was deposed.
2014-06-14 06:45:42 PM  
1 votes:
Except that despite all the right-wingers trying to gin up ISIS to either a) embarrass Obama, B) whip up sentiment for yet another military incursion, or C) all of the above, Baghdad is not about to fall anytime soon.  The group is likely to get wiped out by a combination force of Kurds, shiate militia groups, and Iran.  And then the country will be partitioned into three regions as probably should have happened 5 years ago.
2014-06-14 06:43:02 PM  
1 votes:

zepher: The Bestest: zepher: "Al Qaeda has been decimated"
- Barack Obama, Nov. 1 2012

Is this incorrect?

You can't be serious.
There have been Al Qaeda flags being raised in every city ISIS has taken over.
You think Al Qaeda is really not out there anymore?


Still around? Sure, but I don't think it's incorrect to say they've been decimated either (by the literal definition of the word). AQ and ISIS also.. don't really get along. They have similar goals and are both Sunni, but they clash on methodology.

If it's true that "AQ flags are popping up", then it's in ISIS' wake, not in cooperation.
2014-06-14 06:35:28 PM  
1 votes:

RanDomino: destrip: Iraq was under the power of a greedy dictator for years, gas prices were cheap and stable ($1.29-1.39 from the 80s - early 2000s)
We took over Iraq, gas prices went up to unprecedented highs (remember, most gas pumps were, by design, incapable of registering more than $1.99 a gallon?)
Iraq achieved "independence," gas prices stayed up.
Iraq has issues again, gas prices go up.
Something doesn't quite add up here.

As far as the yahoos taking over cities there, there are relatively few roads between cities. As the "militants" are a bunch of towelheads riding around in Toyota pickups, why can't we, or the Iraqi army for that matter, just bomb or blockade the main highways leading into Baghdad? If the militants can't get there they can't take anything over. Blast 'em into the stone age like we did to Saddam's army when they were fleeing Kuwait during Desert Storm.

Better yet, go high tech and use an EMP weapon to disable the pickups!

I didn't know Tom Clancy was a Farker.


I didn't know Tom Clancy was alive
2014-06-14 06:25:33 PM  
1 votes:

Pattuq: Oil prices are part of a big game being played by rich assholes.  They reflect the emotions of investors and not the actual state of the world.

The US imports over double the amount of petroleum from Canada than it does from the next highest source - Saudi Arabia.  Iraq doesn't even factor into the numbers.  Only about 13% of America's oil actually comes from the Middle East.

People have this impression that all the oil comes from the ME, and that if some Saudi or Iraqi guy has a bad day he can fark over the entire country with a phone call.  That is exaggerated.   I would say people should be more worried about gas prices when a Canadian hockey team loses a game, or when moose stampedes damage the oil facilities.


You do realize that the reason for this is that oil is fungible, right?  If the price of oil in Saudi Arabia plummets, we would start buying it from there, so Canada would then lower its price to whatever Saudi Arabia was charging, plus the shipping differential  (Theoretically - Oil is not perfectly fungible, and diversification of source is advantageous - which is why we don't import 100% of our oil from Canada).
2014-06-14 06:23:54 PM  
1 votes:

oh_please: I really, really wish Obama would step up to the podium and say:

"Know what? We tried. We farking tried. It's come to the point that the United States has two options now...one, we turn Iraq into a glass parking lot, but we're not doing that. Our only other option is to bring everyone home. That's what we're doing. I'm sorry for the people that sided with us, but we honestly can't afford to police your country anymore, especially when a lot of the population sides with power-hungry assholes who are smart enough to make race and religion their bread and butter. If that's what you want, that's what you get.

"I get it, WE get it. You don't want us here. We're leaving. Good luck, you'll need it."


oh_please

thanks for the lol.  i hope you did it for teh lulz.
2014-06-14 06:22:50 PM  
1 votes:

BigLuca: Uzzah:
On the other hand, Baghdad is in a majority Shia area, and the able-bodied Shia men there will have no reluctance to defend the city vigorously. Ultimately, we're going to wind up with the sort of Sunni/Shia partitioning that we should've done in the first place

You seem knowledgeable, so let me ask you a question.  What are the odds Iran would get involved?  I mean, if the Sunni uprising actually did threaten Baghdad, wouldn't they step in?


Iran is already involved.
2014-06-14 06:20:15 PM  
1 votes:
Harper must be rubbing his pudgy white hands together with glee, though. Higher oil prices are great for Alberta and that is pretty much all he cares about except the Arctic, which will eventually replace Alberta's conventional oil and high cost non-conventional oil. He's an economist. A right-wing economist. A right-wing economist with the political instincts of a ruthless XIXth century plutocrat.
2014-06-14 06:05:11 PM  
1 votes:

destrip: Iraq was under the power of a greedy dictator for years, gas prices were cheap and stable ($1.29-1.39 from the 80s - early 2000s)
We took over Iraq, gas prices went up to unprecedented highs (remember, most gas pumps were, by design, incapable of registering more than $1.99 a gallon?)
Iraq achieved "independence," gas prices stayed up.
Iraq has issues again, gas prices go up.
Something doesn't quite add up here.

As far as the yahoos taking over cities there, there are relatively few roads between cities. As the "militants" are a bunch of towelheads riding around in Toyota pickups, why can't we, or the Iraqi army for that matter, just bomb or blockade the main highways leading into Baghdad? If the militants can't get there they can't take anything over. Blast 'em into the stone age like we did to Saddam's army when they were fleeing Kuwait during Desert Storm.

Better yet, go high tech and use an EMP weapon to disable the pickups!


I didn't know Tom Clancy was a Farker.
2014-06-14 06:00:21 PM  
1 votes:

Laobaojun: Which is absolute profiteering bull crap, as only 3% of US oil is imported from Iraq.
Farking treasonous, self-serving actions by the US oil industry.


Oil industry?
You mean all of the commodities speculators on Wall Street are actually Oil Company employees?
Learn something new every day.
2014-06-14 05:57:27 PM  
1 votes:
Oil prices are part of a big game being played by rich assholes.  They reflect the emotions of investors and not the actual state of the world.

The US imports over double the amount of petroleum from Canada than it does from the next highest source - Saudi Arabia.  Iraq doesn't even factor into the numbers.  Only about 13% of America's oil actually comes from the Middle East.

People have this impression that all the oil comes from the ME, and that if some Saudi or Iraqi guy has a bad day he can fark over the entire country with a phone call.  That is exaggerated.   I would say people should be more worried about gas prices when a Canadian hockey team loses a game, or when moose stampedes damage the oil facilities.
2014-06-14 05:56:00 PM  
1 votes:
Iraq was under the power of a greedy dictator for years, gas prices were cheap and stable ($1.29-1.39 from the 80s - early 2000s)
We took over Iraq, gas prices went up to unprecedented highs (remember, most gas pumps were, by design, incapable of registering more than $1.99 a gallon?)
Iraq achieved "independence," gas prices stayed up.
Iraq has issues again, gas prices go up.
Something doesn't quite add up here.

As far as the yahoos taking over cities there, there are relatively few roads between cities. As the "militants" are a bunch of towelheads riding around in Toyota pickups, why can't we, or the Iraqi army for that matter, just bomb or blockade the main highways leading into Baghdad? If the militants can't get there they can't take anything over. Blast 'em into the stone age like we did to Saddam's army when they were fleeing Kuwait during Desert Storm.

Better yet, go high tech and use an EMP weapon to disable the pickups!
2014-06-14 05:55:50 PM  
1 votes:

Nemosomen: "If Baghdad falls" is a mighty big "if."  ISIS holds Tikrit?  Does that city support the current regime, or were they more supportive of Saddam Hussein al Tikriti's regime?


Baghdad might not fall, but it might need to be renamed "Mogadishu North".

jaytkay: The stated goal was liberating the Iraqis from dictatorship.


The "stated goal" was to eliminate Iraq's nonexistent WMDs.
2014-06-14 05:50:58 PM  
1 votes:

jaytkay: The stated goal was liberating the Iraqis from dictatorship.


Actually, that's not correct. That was the post hoc justification. And even if it were, it's been unsuccessful and only looks to get worse.
2014-06-14 05:49:49 PM  
1 votes:

People_are_Idiots: You buy gas in another form, so electricity, food, toiletries, etc... Goes up.


The economy absorbs indirect costs more effectively over the other commodities I purchase. Yes, other costs go up, but when gas goes from $3.75 a gallon to $6.50 a gallon (just to give some numbers), my transportation costs don't go up by that much, nor do my other costs spike as high.

Besides which, if I drove a gas-using vehicle, I'd  still be paying extra for the gas as well as additional costs as other goods go up in price. So I'm still ahead of the game.
2014-06-14 05:46:31 PM  
1 votes:

CruJones: Baghdad is not going to fall.  There's not that many of these guys, and can probably be handled exclusively by air.  Also, their troops probably won't all run away this time.  Maybe.


cdn.frontpagemag.com
2014-06-14 05:45:22 PM  
1 votes:

jaytkay: In order to successfully liberate the Iraqi people, we should have killed them all. Thanks for your insight.


You're missing the point. I'm saying that we could never have "liberated" anything or anyone unless we were willing to kill enough people to completely destroy their culture and society. The choice to go into Iraq was the wrong one because the cost of achieving the victory conditions was never considered and could never have been paid.

I'm not arguing that we should have killed more people in Iraq. I'm saying that if you look at history, it should have been clear that the only way to achieve the stated goal was to do so. And that maybe knowing that we shouldn't have tried.

Because now, here we are. And yes, I told you so.
2014-06-14 05:44:52 PM  
1 votes:
"If Baghdad falls" is a mighty big "if."  ISIS holds Tikrit?  Does that city support the current regime, or were they more supportive of Saddam Hussein al Tikriti's regime?
2014-06-14 05:44:08 PM  
1 votes:
So... they finally admit it.  And here all this time I thought it was really aboot getting rid of a dictator and freedom fries.
2014-06-14 05:43:19 PM  
1 votes:
Baghdad is not going to fall.  There's not that many of these guys, and can probably be handled exclusively by air.  Also, their troops probably won't all run away this time.  Maybe.
2014-06-14 05:39:11 PM  
1 votes:

Red Shirt Blues: Germany lost about 10%, Japan 4%. Both were crushed.


10% is the minimum- generally the majority will need to be military-age men. Japan's kind of a special case because nukes changed the game; look what happened to Japanese culture in the wake of those. Still, if you're willing to pop a few nukes, you could get the same result with lower overall casualties.

The point is that war's not clean, and unless we're willing to get our hands really bloody, it's a bad choice. Probably a bad choice even then, but if you're aware of the costs going in and that unless you pay those costs that success is impossible, maybe we could see some alternatives on the table.
2014-06-14 05:28:21 PM  
1 votes:
The only way directly it can affect my family, is my wife is the only one who drives, I do not. I just ride my bike. Mostly to about a 3 mile radius or so. I understand prices for groceries, bike parts, etc will go up, but not as much of a direct impact to my wallet. Plus, living in a "poor" state helps.
2014-06-14 05:21:44 PM  
1 votes:

Laobaojun: Which is absolute profiteering bull crap, as only 3% of US oil is imported from Iraq.
Farking treasonous, self-serving actions by the US oil industry.


www.freewilliamsburg.com

Cry sum moar, peasant. I ain't done fapping! HUR HUR HUR HUR HUR!!
2014-06-14 05:20:31 PM  
1 votes:

Laobaojun: Which is absolute profiteering bull crap, as only 3% of US oil is imported from Iraq.
Farking treasonous, self-serving actions by the US oil industry.


But if someone else (China) can't get their oil, and Iran is functionally offline, the global price will go up. No matter how many holes we drill in North Dakota.
2014-06-14 05:16:43 PM  
1 votes:
i say let them fall, they knew what they were getting into.
2014-06-14 05:16:26 PM  
1 votes:
But I've been assured by many Fark Independents our involvement in Iraq had nothing to do with oil. So this can't possibly be true.
2014-06-14 05:15:21 PM  
1 votes:
And another civil war begins. It's gonna be armagheddon, millions slaughtered
2014-06-14 05:15:18 PM  
1 votes:

MaudlinMutantMollusk: IgG4: Was Iraq actually exporting any oil?

Yeah... I was wondering just how big a contributor they are myself

/found this: Iraq was the sixth largest net exporter of petroleum liquids in the world in 2012, with the majority of its oil exports going to the United States and to refineries in Asia.


But yet the majority of oil imported into the US comes from Canada.
2014-06-14 05:06:21 PM  
1 votes:
Heh. Glad I drive a Volt. Haven't bought gas in over six months and only twice in the last year.
2014-06-14 05:04:33 PM  
1 votes:
Isis already holds Tikrit. Whether or not they can keep it is up in the air. Gas be going up either way
2014-06-14 04:52:26 PM  
1 votes:
Most of the current gas price is based on futures and speculation. But, I'd definitely refrain from fueling up within 48 hours of Baghdad's fall; if it happens.
2014-06-14 04:45:45 PM  
1 votes:
Mission accomplished?
2014-06-14 03:49:40 PM  
1 votes:

phillydrifter: 2k8


Is it really that much more difficult to type "2008?"

It's one extra keystroke.
 
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