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3147 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Jun 2014 at 8:09 AM (6 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-14 03:08:51 AM
1)The government tells us what to believe; therefore we object by polarizing our thoughts against them.

2)Special interest groups buy politicians who in turn lie like rugs in whorehouses and ignore the peoples desires and rights.

3)Rights have systematically been revoked or watered down in the past 13 years since 9/11 in the form of government abuses of power for violations of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

4)The Millennial's, Gen X and Gen Y have access to the greatest form of information this planet has ever known and they abuse it by ignoring their elders, blindly following the government to be "PC", and honestly think their friends have the answers to lifes questions, not realizing that the older generation has already made the same mistakes.

5)The Millennials, Gen X and Gen Y who have the "entitlement" personality has managed to piss off the rest of us to the point where DIAF and UFIA is simply the opening gambit while praying for a plague of biblical proportions to give them the smack down emotionally they need to grow up.

Now, knowing all the above,,,,how can you, OP, expect a rational discourse?
 
2014-06-14 04:16:11 AM
*gnaws Trailtrader's leg in polite, civil fashion*
 
2014-06-14 04:52:34 AM

Trailltrader: 1)The government tells us what to believe; therefore we object by polarizing our thoughts against them.

2)Special interest groups buy politicians who in turn lie like rugs in whorehouses and ignore the peoples desires and rights.

3)Rights have systematically been revoked or watered down in the past 13 years since 9/11 in the form of government abuses of power for violations of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

4)The Millennial's, Gen X and Gen Y have access to the greatest form of information this planet has ever known and they abuse it by ignoring their elders, blindly following the government to be "PC", and honestly think their friends have the answers to lifes questions, not realizing that the older generation has already made the same mistakes.

5)The Millennials, Gen X and Gen Y who have the "entitlement" personality has managed to piss off the rest of us to the point where DIAF and UFIA is simply the opening gambit while praying for a plague of biblical proportions to give them the smack down emotionally they need to grow up.

Now, knowing all the above,,,,how can you, OP, expect a rational discourse?


Dude, we're not even on your lawn.
 
2014-06-14 05:19:34 AM
It is my assertion that a very well thought out, purposeful and strategically structured zeitgeist of "us and them" - and you can pick any us or them you want to carry a flag for, what you're all worked up about is inconsequential - has been shoved through every media outlet and televised program imaginable. for years.  From, reality shows that appeal to cranky, schadenfreude soaked idiots, to ads, to political and news programming for the expressed intent of dividing us into a nation of entitled, annoyed and blame seeking sub groups.  And it works like a charm.  BTW, Windows and Play Stations suck.  Apple and X-Box 360 RULES!  Suck it up, losers.
 
2014-06-14 05:26:19 AM
They don't care who are what you're down with.  They don't care if you're educated, they don't care if you're healthy.  They don't care if you are homeless or have a 20 room mansion.  Beater?  Mercedes?  Machts nichts.  Just keep a hair trigger hatred for whatever you're told to hate and keep shoving that money upchain, 7.99 at a time, 300,000,000.00 times a day.  Cause whatever you're down with, there's an app, a T-Shirt, a board game, a flavor or crap you sprinkle into water and a Fed. Dept. for it.  And it all makes money.
 
2014-06-14 05:30:06 AM
Sorry about the bad punctuation.  It's 5:30 in the A of M and I been mixing half the night.
 
2014-06-14 05:59:11 AM
*crawls up in bunner's lap, goes to sleep*
 
2014-06-14 06:08:48 AM
*gets out the kitty blanket*   :  )
 
2014-06-14 07:53:22 AM

Trailltrader: Now, knowing all the above,,,,how can you, OP, expect a rational discourse?


We'll never have a decent discussion again until codgers who think they know everything die off.
 
2014-06-14 07:58:48 AM
You're a terrorist, Subby.

IF YOU DONT LOVE AMURIKA, U CAN LEEVE IT!!
 
2014-06-14 08:08:08 AM

Trailltrader: 1)The government tells us what to believe; therefore we object by polarizing our thoughts against them.

2)Special interest groups buy politicians who in turn lie like rugs in whorehouses and ignore the peoples desires and rights.

3)Rights have systematically been revoked or watered down in the past 13 years since 9/11 in the form of government abuses of power for violations of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

4)The Millennial's, Gen X and Gen Y have access to the greatest form of information this planet has ever known and they abuse it by ignoring their elders, blindly following the government to be "PC", and honestly think their friends have the answers to lifes questions, not realizing that the older generation has already made the same mistakes.

5)The Millennials, Gen X and Gen Y who have the "entitlement" personality has managed to piss off the rest of us to the point where DIAF and UFIA is simply the opening gambit while praying for a plague of biblical proportions to give them the smack down emotionally they need to grow up.

Now, knowing all the above,,,,how can you, OP, expect a rational discourse?


4) Gen X is middle age now, they have plenty of life experience and wisdom to think for themselves.
5) Millennials and GenX expect the least from government.
 
2014-06-14 08:12:51 AM
Go fark yourself - civility is for pussies.
 
2014-06-14 08:18:40 AM
I accept the specific assertion of TFA that people have come to consider political labels more important in recent years.  That kind of thing is known to happen.

I find TFA's more general assertion that people choose their friends/etc based on shared social groups to a greater extent recently than historically to be dubious at best, which is the nice way of saying that whoever decided that that followed from the data is a goddamned moron.  That's how most people have always chosen their friends, dates, etc.
 
2014-06-14 08:20:07 AM

Trailltrader: 1)The government tells us what to believe; therefore we object by polarizing our thoughts against them.

2)Special interest groups buy politicians who in turn lie like rugs in whorehouses and ignore the peoples desires and rights.

3)Rights have systematically been revoked or watered down in the past 13 years since 9/11 in the form of government abuses of power for violations of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

4)The Millennial's, Gen X and Gen Y have access to the greatest form of information this planet has ever known and they abuse it by ignoring their elders, blindly following the government to be "PC", and honestly think their friends have the answers to lifes questions, not realizing that the older generation has already made the same mistakes.

5)The Millennials, Gen X and Gen Y who have the "entitlement" personality has managed to piss off the rest of us to the point where DIAF and UFIA is simply the opening gambit while praying for a plague of biblical proportions to give them the smack down emotionally they need to grow up.

Now, knowing all the above,,,,how can you, OP, expect a rational discourse?


Wow, that was the Javascript of political engagement theory.
 
2014-06-14 08:23:11 AM
FTA: You have more than a third of Republicans saying the Democratic Party is a threat to the nation, more than a quarter of Democrats saying the same thing about the Republicans.

I'm actually surprised those numbers aren't higher.
 
2014-06-14 08:23:23 AM

Trailltrader: inane tired bullshiat.

Now, knowing all the above,,,,how can you, OP, expect a rational discourse?


Knowing that the Boobies in the thread is the same old "everyone under 50 is too stupid and self absorbed to function in society" argument (which is bullshiat, but that's a different story), I do not expect a rational discourse.

/not subby
//wtf is OP, go back to 4chan
 
2014-06-14 08:23:26 AM
there is a simple explanation:

1) conservatives have moved to the extreme right - farther right than they have ever been in the history of the country - and one of the chief tenets of this new conservatism is that compromise is a sin.
2) the rest of the country - the middle and the left - has no interest in compromising with them, because their policy ideas are so far out of the mainstream that to allow them to be enacted - even a little bit - would present a danger to the fabric of the union.

but the main problem is the media. america has always had a population of fascists. in the old days, they were called the john birch society, and they were relegated to the political fringe. since the advent of fox news and the erroneous concept of "balance," these john birchers - now called the tea party - are given equal time for their loony and dangerous ideas. and the rest of the media - even NPR and MSNBC - are too afraid to call crazy crazy, so they lend credence to insane positions like climate change denial, creationism, and the dangerous notion of letting the debt ceiling lapse.
 
2014-06-14 08:25:26 AM
Polarization has gotten pretty goddam bad. Probably all the other Parties will line up against us. That's all right. These things gotta happen every four years or so, eight years. Helps to get rid of the bad blood.

www.johnnypunish.com
 
2014-06-14 08:27:19 AM

TwoBeersOneCan: //wtf is OP, go back to 4chan


I'm pretty sure that's imgurspeak.
 
2014-06-14 08:27:57 AM
Liberty for all instead of privilege for some.
 
2014-06-14 08:29:55 AM
Being close-minded afflicts all ages.
That itself might be the root of the problem. It's not always age. Hell, some people are "old" by 25.
 
2014-06-14 08:30:15 AM
We are more polarized because we can't agree on basic facts, whether about economics, human nature, or even science.  If you can't start from commonly agreed-upon facts, how do you reach any kind of reasonable ideological compromise?
 
2014-06-14 08:34:23 AM
our  appointed or elected officials are just working for small groups of people, the funny thing is when you hear the teabagger foot solider types yelling at clouds they are pissed about many of the same things people on the left and everyone in between are pissed about regarding our government being owned by special interests. There is common ground among even the most extreme groups but, hey, it's more fun to argue about the various wedge issues.
 
2014-06-14 08:35:42 AM

Clever Neologism: We are more polarized because we can't agree on basic facts, whether about economics, human nature, or even science.  If you can't start from commonly agreed-upon facts, how do you reach any kind of reasonable ideological compromise?


My ignorance is as good as your opinion - Asimov
 
2014-06-14 08:36:06 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2014-06-14 08:36:27 AM
The real answer is the speed of information, the speed of communication.

Any one else tired of the eternal doom and gloom?
 
2014-06-14 08:37:06 AM

Trailltrader: 1)The government tells us what to believe; therefore we object by polarizing our thoughts against them.


The government hasn't told me what to believe.


2)Special interest groups buy politicians who in turn lie like rugs in whorehouses and ignore the peoples desires and rights.

Yep

3)Rights have systematically been revoked or watered down in the past 13 years since 9/11 in the form of government abuses of power for violations of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.


Brought to us by your generation, no doubt.

4)The Millennial's, Gen X and Gen Y have access to the greatest form of information this planet has ever known and they abuse it by ignoring their elders, blindly following the government to be "PC", and honestly think their friends have the answers to lifes questions, not realizing that the older generation has already made the same mistakes.

I don't even know how to respond to it. The whole sentence is based entirely on a false premise. You are literally saying the same damn thing your dad said about your generation, and what his dad said about his, and so on.

Also, what does "blindly following the government to be 'pc'" even mean? Hell, what does being "politically correct" even mean? I listen to a lot of right wing talk radio to and from work. Every time one of the hosts complains about "political correctness," it's because they're defending some asshole like Donald Sterling or Cliven Bundy.

Also, are you saying 30-somethings should not consult their peers for information that they might have? What if their peers are lawyers, doctors, nurses, electricians, engineers, or hair stylists, and they have a question pertaining to those fields? I am friends with fellow 30-somethings who possess jobs in the aforementioned industries, and I consult them if I want to know what this thing on my neck is, or how to style my hair to get laid. Who I don't consult is some asshole who paints so many people with a broad brush through bigotry.

5)The Millennials, Gen X and Gen Y who have the "entitlement" personality has managed to piss off the rest of us to the point where DIAF and UFIA is simply the opening gambit while praying for a plague of biblical proportions to give them the smack down emotionally they need to grow up.

So anybody under the age of 36 or so feels entitled to...what? Tell me, what do I feel entitled to? Is it the minimum wage thing? Or what? I seriously don't see the young ones being the problem when it comes to government spending.

Now, knowing all the above,,,,how can you, OP, expect a rational discourse?

Your baseless opinions don't equal rational discourse.
 
2014-06-14 08:38:21 AM
Things are going to get one hell of a lot worse before they even begin to get any better.
 
2014-06-14 08:40:03 AM

Headso: our  appointed or elected officials are just working for small groups of people, the funny thing is when you hear the teabagger foot solider types yelling at clouds they are pissed about many of the same things people on the left and everyone in between are pissed about regarding our government being owned by special interests. There is common ground among even the most extreme groups but, hey, it's more fun to argue about the various wedge issues.


It's not wedge issues. It's the fact that the liberal response to the issues that we both agree are bad is "maybe we should raise taxes a half percent on trillionaires in order to fund an infrastructure/jobs program," while the conservative response to the same issues is "maybe we should round up all the poors and torture them to death while singing "My Country Tis of Thee" and carving Jesus' face into Mount Rushmore with a gun."
 
2014-06-14 08:40:17 AM
My side isn't polarized, it's those other guys.
 
2014-06-14 08:42:43 AM

Clever Neologism: If you can't start from commonly agreed-upon facts,


For eons, we din't have to.  The internet gave every super genius and mong with an ISP a quarter to ante up with.  And we're starting to notice a lot of crap from discourse, no matter how uncivil.

how do you reach any kind of reasonable ideological compromise?

And, not to piss on anybody's petunias, but a lot of people who got pig nasty rich by keeping millions of people happily pounding away doing stuff to MAKE them rich, never giving a thought to the broader scope of life's more profound questions, are just what the oligarchy liked.  And those people would like that to stay that way.  But it wont.  So they decided to just keep us clawing at each other and dividing us into smaller subgroups, each with a flag, a complaint and a sense of entitlement.  Ideological compromise?  Oh, dear.  Hush up with that and go make me some money.
 
2014-06-14 08:44:07 AM
EvilEgg:

5) Millennials and GenX expect the least from government.

And boy do they get it.
 
2014-06-14 08:46:41 AM
It's hard to have a civil conversation when you have 80-100 million armed civilians and 12-15 million veterans to be terrified of.
 
2014-06-14 08:49:00 AM

Poopspasm: Headso: our  appointed or elected officials are just working for small groups of people, the funny thing is when you hear the teabagger foot solider types yelling at clouds they are pissed about many of the same things people on the left and everyone in between are pissed about regarding our government being owned by special interests. There is common ground among even the most extreme groups but, hey, it's more fun to argue about the various wedge issues.

It's not wedge issues. It's the fact that the liberal response to the issues that we both agree are bad is "maybe we should raise taxes a half percent on trillionaires in order to fund an infrastructure/jobs program," while the conservative response to the same issues is "maybe we should round up all the poors and torture them to death while singing "My Country Tis of Thee" and carving Jesus' face into Mount Rushmore with a gun."


so in both cases you have a jobs program being proposed for middle class people, there's the common ground.
 
2014-06-14 08:51:44 AM
Ahem.

There are no Millennials, GenXers, GenYers, Boomers, useless old geezers, clueless punks, automagically oppressed or entitled groups in this country.  That's a con

There's just different people born and growing up at different times with different culture and technologies.  And that used to be called progress and they used to be called Americans.

And they're all getting bent over the sink by the same ruling class that desperately need every man Jack of us to believe that the guy up the road who hasn't got a pot to piss in, either is who is bending us over the sink.
 
2014-06-14 08:52:39 AM

quatchi: FTA: You have more than a third of Republicans saying the Democratic Party is a threat to the nation, more than a quarter of Democrats saying the same thing about the Republicans.

I'm actually surprised those numbers aren't higher.


Republicans actually ARE a threat, but they also project their failings on Democrats, so, yeah.
 
2014-06-14 08:52:44 AM

Trailltrader: 1)The government tells us what to believe; therefore we object by polarizing our thoughts against them.


What specifically does the government tell us to believe?


2)Special interest groups buy politicians who in turn lie like rugs in whorehouses and ignore the peoples desires and rights.

On this point, at least, there are potential solutions that we can all get behind.
 
2014-06-14 08:53:24 AM

Trailltrader: 4)The Millennial's, Gen X and Gen Y have access to the greatest form of information this planet has ever known and they abuse it by ignoring their elders, blindly following the government to be "PC", and honestly think their friends have the answers to lifes questions, not realizing that the older generation has already made the same mistakes.


What ego do you have that you decry us for blindly following one group, then demand we blindly follow yours? Age does not fundamentally denote wisdom.
 
2014-06-14 08:53:25 AM
Fix Gerrymandering.

No matter what your political persuasion (other than anarchy/libertarian) the only way to "fix" America currently is to stop gerrymandering.

Extremes have always been there lurking in the shadows, but gerrymandering actually gives them a foothold, and then everything else follows.

That being said, Right-wing extremists blow up abortion clinics and put their religion into everything, while Left-wing extremists demand higher teacher pay and better EPA standards. The two are worlds apart currently.
 
2014-06-14 08:53:30 AM
As an American farker sitting on the sidelines watching our republic tear itself apart ... Americans have lost sight of the big picture. We are all Americans. We all live together. We all want to see our Country thrive and grow. Yet, we are intent as an American family to divide ourselves into a dysfunctional family entrenching ourselves into unyielding toxic unproductive discourse that would rather burn America down to it's foundation rather than to compromise, work together and put Country first.
A leopard cannot change it's spots. We need to reign in what we have become or it won't matter in the future because we won't have one.
 
2014-06-14 08:55:52 AM
I say - Lovely weather we're having lately, wot?
 
2014-06-14 08:56:39 AM

Bloody William: you decry us for blindly following one group, then demand we blindly follow yours


False equivalency.  That's not what he said.

Bloody William: Age does not fundamentally denote wisdom.


Nor youth acuity.  Old argument.  Circular and useless except to the ruling class who promulgate by way of repetition it as a tool for divisiveness.
 
2014-06-14 09:02:23 AM
yagottabefarkinkiddinme: As an American farker sitting on the sidelines watching our republic tear itself apart ... Americans have lost sight of the big picture.

Tape this to your fridge.
 
2014-06-14 09:05:33 AM

bunner: Bloody William: you decry us for blindly following one group, then demand we blindly follow yours


False equivalency.  That's not what he said.


Then he shouldn't condemn blind loyalty and demand serious consideration and acknowledgement in the same breath. Asking to have your point of view considered is one thing. Saying everyone is wrong for completely ignoring you immediately after (well, in between) talking about how everyone is shiat morally and intellectually for other reasons is another.

bunner: Nor youth acuity.  Old argument.  Circular and useless except to the ruling class who promulgate by way of repetition it as a tool for divisiveness.


I didn't say age never denotes wisdom, but blind acceptance is foolish no matter what age you are. How about a civil discourse between generations that starts with dropping shiat like "Everyone in Gen X and Gen Y are entitled, ignorant fools who don't pay attention to me?"
 
2014-06-14 09:07:05 AM
We have always been divided.  Fifty years ago we just hid it by shaming and marginalizing the outsiders.  Society wasn't any more homogeneous then than now but these days things are a lot more fair for the chicks, homos, illeglas and attractive and successfuls.  Some old people have a problem with that.  Screw them.
 
2014-06-14 09:07:22 AM

yagottabefarkinkiddinme: We are all Americans.


Nuh-uh.  OUR side is Americans.  Them other folks ain't Americans.  Hell, they ain't even people.
 
2014-06-14 09:07:24 AM
How about we stop using wedge issues to infuriate the masses and solve the real problems in this country. Abortion is not tearing this country apart. Gun control will not dissolve this "democracy". Mexicans are not taking over the country and learning a little Spanish will not destroy your white identity.
If people could have sensible discussions without feeling personally threatened, life would be a lot better.
/or we just euthanize all the conservatives and trolls
//either way
 
2014-06-14 09:11:41 AM
Looks like jimmy callahan and flash harry have this all wrapped up. Done in a handful.
 
2014-06-14 09:12:26 AM

Bloody William: Then he shouldn't condemn blind loyalty


Everybody should condemn blind loyalty and he didn't ask for yours.

Bloody William: but blind acceptance is foolish no matter what age you are.

:  /  So which is it?


Bloody William: ow about a civil discourse between generations that starts with dropping shiat like "Everyone in Gen X and Gen Y are entitled, ignorant fools who don't pay attention to me?"


That's a blatant exaggeration, but I'm pretty sure you know that.  I think this is what he's trying to say, and if he isn't, I am.  "Go sit your ass down with the old man and shoot the sh*t with him for a while.  Follow his reasoning.  Listen to his anecdotes and experiences and don't get butthurt if he doesn't feel obliged to stop and kiss your ass rosy and tell you how smart you are every ten minutes."  You might enjoy it.
 
2014-06-14 09:13:33 AM

FlashHarry: 1) conservatives have moved to the extreme right - farther right than they have ever been in the history of the country - and one of the chief tenets of this new conservatism is that compromise is a sin.
2) the rest of the country - the middle and the left - has no interest in compromising with them, because their policy ideas are so far out of the mainstream that to allow them to be enacted - even a little bit - would present a danger to the fabric of the union.


Respectfully, I think you have a point. However, you may be painting with too broad a brush.

For example, I'm not really thrilled with Dave Brat's social conservatism. (I find it too aggressively authoritarian; my beef with everything I dislike about the right). However, I'm forced to stop and listen because of where he's coming from as an economist and his fiscal views.

Perhaps then, there's a hard core right wing that does say somethings--just enough--to attract more moderates to look them over. But voting for these guys is no easy thing, and forces a moderate to pay a heavy toll.

I'm guilty of painting with a broad brush. To my jaded eye, the left looks like a well orchestrated choir. Rarely does anyone on the left step out of line. When was the last time the liberal SCOTUS Justices disagreed on any major matter? The "Conservatives" on the other hand are far less predictable.

But like I said, I'm guilty of the same stereotyping. Intellectually, I know (and have been educated to some degree) that the left consists of a spectrum. Is it wider or narrower than the right? Seems narrower, but that could easily be attributed to personal bias or how you map out politics. /shrug

IMHO, the solution is to always take policies up one idea at a time and discuss them on the merits. And always leave personal matters off the table. Man, I would love popular, real debate programming. (And it kills me to see students turn away lecturers because of "reasons").
 
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