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(Deadspin)   Eleven of the 12 biggest groups of bandwagon fans in baseball are forced to suffer the DH rule   (deadspin.com) divider line 64
    More: Obvious, Major League Baseball, Emory University, statistical model  
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1729 clicks; posted to Sports » on 13 Jun 2014 at 3:54 PM (15 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-13 01:05:18 PM
As a Yankee fan I'll say we should be higher on the list.  Since the Yankees have missed the playoffs only twice since 95 it just isn't as noticeable.
 
2014-06-13 01:17:15 PM
"Bandwagon?" That. Is. Crap. In this day and age where the dollar doesn't go far unless your surname is "Onepercent" it is not the duty of the fan base to sell out stadiums when the local team blows. Sorry owners, it is incumbent on YOU to field a consumable product -- especially in pro sports when you could have the absolute minimum payroll and yet you absorb a ton of cash through TV money and from more successful franchises. I salute a fan base that turns away from garbage.

Instead of "bandwagon," use "non-moran."

/Not a Phillies fan.
//Rockies "fan." Will be more interested when we get competent ownership.
///No accounting for Miami.
 
2014-06-13 01:44:01 PM
I'm not sure it's fair for the A's to be near the top of the list.  As a Giants fan, I don't go to a lot of A's games, but when I have gone, I can't say that I've noticed a difference of more than a couple thousand fans per game between years when the A's are leading the division and the years when they aren't so good.  Oh, wait, I guess a couple thousand fans is actually about a 25% difference in Oakland...

And while we're on the subject of Bay Area baseball, I don't quite understand what the criteria are if the Giants are only in the middle of the pack.  Good years and bad, there are very, very few games at AT&T Park that aren't completely sold out.  In fact, the Giants set a new N.L. record for consecutive home sellouts earlier this season, and that streak has continued since then, so that they've now sold out damn near 300 home games in a row, dating back to October 1, 2010.  Yes, this includes two World Series title years and this season in which they have the best record in MLB, but it also includes the 2011 season, when the Giants flat-out sucked, and last season, when they sucked only slightly less.  The bottom line is that ever since the ballpark opened in 2000, damn near every game has been completely sold out, good years and bad (despite some of the highest ticket prices in baseball).  And though I went to games there all the time, you can't really blame people for not wanting to subject themselves to games at the swirling pit of hell that was Candlestick Park in the years before AT&T Park opened.
 
2014-06-13 01:51:12 PM

Wadded Beef: Instead of "bandwagon," use "non-moran."


Since it's comparing teams to other teams, and each team prices its product to maximize profits given the local economy, I'd say it's a useful metric to determine how fickle the fan bases are relative to one another.

Now maybe Philly fans are just "smarter" than everyone else and won't pay to watch their team suck, but I really, really doubt that's what's happening here.  It probably speaks more to how enjoyable the ballpark experience (including the weather, the ease of travel to and from the park, parking, game times)  is regardless of how well the teams is playing.
 
2014-06-13 02:03:43 PM
Once again, a good showing for the Cardinals. I won't use the phrase that you all love to hate here, though.
 
2014-06-13 02:50:32 PM
Well there you go, the Miami Marlins have one of the strongest fanbases in all of baseball.

And San Francisco changed the spelling of the city's name.
 
jbc [TotalFark]
2014-06-13 03:00:46 PM

IAmRight: Well there you go, the Miami Marlins have one of the strongest fanbases in all of baseball.

And San Francisco changed the spelling of the city's name.


And the best fans in baseball are so good they get an extra capital letter.
 
2014-06-13 04:01:55 PM

IAmRight: Well there you go, the Miami Marlins have one of the strongest fanbases in all of baseball.

And San Francisco changed the spelling of the city's name.


Someone didn't read the words in the article...
 
2014-06-13 04:05:37 PM
So it just includes Ballpark attendance figures, and doesn't account for people watching at home, in bars, or buying merchandise?
 
2014-06-13 04:09:43 PM

Nefarious: As a Yankee fan I'll say we should be higher on the list.  Since the Yankees have missed the playoffs only twice since 95 it just isn't as noticeable.


my biggest gripe about the Yankees is that their announce team treats every play like the most spectacular play in sports history, even if the inning before, the opponent did the exact same thing.  Then it's the most routine play in baseball.
 
2014-06-13 04:10:47 PM
The DH rule is great.

In fact, every single position should have the opportunity for a DH. The 9 best hitters vs the 9 best fielders. If you happen to be good playing both ways, all the power to you. You probably deserve a bigger contract.

This is the way football works. In stop-and-go sports, it makes total sense to sub out players at will.

/Screw tradition, I want the highest level of competition
 
2014-06-13 04:11:53 PM

IAmRight: Well there you go, the Miami Marlins have one of the strongest fanbases in all of baseball.

And San Francisco changed the spelling of the city's name.


pbs.twimg.com

/speaking of bandwagon fans ...
 
2014-06-13 04:13:22 PM
Also, as someone who lives in Toronto, let me attest that this city jumps on any bandwagon when their team shows any sign of doing well.

If champions were crowned in the first 25% of a season, Toronto would be a sports heaven.
 
2014-06-13 04:18:48 PM
Bandwagon? Who wants to spend their money on a horrible product? If you'd offer to give me a ticket when ML Carr was running the Celtics into the ground so the team would have a better lottery pick to get Tim Duncan, I wouldn't have gone. The few Celtics games I watched on tv, the team was horrible. Sports is like any other thing you spend money on. I wouldn't spend money to see a movie getting bad reviews.
 
2014-06-13 04:19:48 PM
If they use a DH they're not playing baseball.
 
2014-06-13 04:20:25 PM

ManateeGag: my biggest gripe about the Yankees is that their announce team treats every play like the most spectacular play in sports history, even if the inning before, the opponent did the exact same thing.  Then it's the most routine play in baseball.


Are you talking about the YES crew or the radio tandem?
 
2014-06-13 04:22:54 PM

The Bestest: ManateeGag: my biggest gripe about the Yankees is that their announce team treats every play like the most spectacular play in sports history, even if the inning before, the opponent did the exact same thing.  Then it's the most routine play in baseball.

Are you talking about the YES crew or the radio tandem?


The YES Team - the Radio guy isn't that much better.
 
2014-06-13 04:27:01 PM
I don't know which surprises me more: That the Indians are sixth ... or that they're below two other teams in the AL Central (Tigers and White Sox).
 
2014-06-13 04:33:04 PM

notyoucoach: If they use a DH they're not playing baseball.


There are only two baseball leagues in the whole world?
 
2014-06-13 04:36:26 PM

dameron: Wadded Beef: Instead of "bandwagon," use "non-moran."

Since it's comparing teams to other teams, and each team prices its product to maximize profits given the local economy, I'd say it's a useful metric to determine how fickle the fan bases are relative to one another.

Now maybe Philly fans are just "smarter" than everyone else and won't pay to watch their team suck, but I really, really doubt that's what's happening here.  It probably speaks more to how enjoyable the ballpark experience (including the weather, the ease of travel to and from the park, parking, game times)  is regardless of how well the teams is playing.


No, that's exactly what's happening in Philly.  The ballpark experience down there is still one of the best in the league.  It's the product on the field that is keeping fans away this year.
 
2014-06-13 04:37:59 PM
People like watching teams win?  Weird.
 
2014-06-13 04:39:23 PM
#4 White Sox.

I don't consider myself bandwagon; I consider myself poor enough that I won't go unless I think I'll see a good game, starting with the team I care about.

/Sox fans: sign up for the Kid's Club. We signed up both of my daughters, and they sent us 19 free tickets to be used on certain dates. They're not even all against crap teams! Also removable tattoos and beach balls! Four of them!
 
2014-06-13 05:13:39 PM

IAmRight: Well there you go, the Miami Marlins have one of the strongest fanbases in all of baseball.

And San Francisco changed the spelling of the city's name.


Not quite.  Since no one in Miami watches the Marlins win or lose, there isn't a bandwagon.  I imagine if their data started in 2003 instead of 1998, the Indians would have the same problem.
 
2014-06-13 05:14:07 PM
I wonder how much higher the Brewers would be if they used older data? Since 2004, they have not been below 2 million, but from 2003 back to 1969, they only hit 2 million once, which was 2001, the year Miller Park opened. County Stadium held about 10k more people too.
 
2014-06-13 05:31:36 PM

skrame: #4 White Sox.

I don't consider myself bandwagon; I consider myself poor enough that I won't go unless I think I'll see a good game, starting with the team I care about.


White Sox fan here, too.  Indeed- many of the fans still follow the team, but refuse to go to games when they suck.  Though they did use the term "win sensitivity" in the chart- that's a more apt title.
 
2014-06-13 05:34:19 PM

DeWayne Mann: There are only two baseball leagues in the whole world?


What I gather from watching games on ESPN and MLB Network, the only teams that exist are in the AL East.
 
2014-06-13 05:36:55 PM
As a long time Orioles fan, I don't really see a lot of the bandwagon fans people are talking about.  Yes I see a lot more people than the good old Mora, Roberts, Tejada days, but I still see an assload of "Yankees" and "Sawx" fans at Orioles games.  I think a lot of the people going there now are people who just use to watch on TV or listen on the radio, but didn't get to the stadium since "why bother paying to watch the team lose".

I do miss my 5$ seat.
 
2014-06-13 05:39:32 PM
If I couldn't get tickets for free whenever I wanted (multiple family members work for them), I would never set foot in Coors Field until the Monforts sell and O'dowd and crew are sent packing. They're just lucky that as long as the weather is nice people go to the games. Coors Field is seen more as a place to hangout as opposed to a place where you go to watch the Rockies win. The upper "Party Deck" they just built is a testament to that.
 
2014-06-13 05:41:50 PM

Communist_Manifesto: Coors Wrigley Field is seen more as a place to hangout as opposed to a place where you go to watch the Rockies Cubs win.


Works that way, too.
 
Al!
2014-06-13 05:42:44 PM

DeWayne Mann: notyoucoach: If they use a DH they're not playing baseball.

There are only two baseball leagues in the whole world?


Only 2 that actually play baseball.  Everyone that bats plays the field in actual baseball, and vice-versa, with very few exceptions (substitutions, injuries etc.)  Also, real baseball only has 9 positions.  "Batter" is not a position.
 
2014-06-13 05:45:17 PM
As an A's fan, I can say that it's not that I'm a bandwagon fan (been a fan since 1983 or so) but more that with the Coliseum being a figurative shiathole since the Raiders came back, and a literal one more recently, there's little reason to go to games unless there's a high* chance of seeing some good baseball.

I've been to more A's away games than home games in the last 10 years. Thank the baseball gods for interleague and the Giants having a decent ballpark.

*: does not refer to sitting in the upper deck during a lazy August evening
 
2014-06-13 05:46:56 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: Communist_Manifesto: Coors Wrigley Field is seen more as a place to hangout as opposed to a place where you go to watch the Rockies Cubs win.

Works that way, too.


It's amazing that it works so well. I actually think that the Monforts are using the Cubs as inspiration. They've seen that all they have to do to maintain their money fountain is to make the stadium the attraction while they play off the "we'll be good eventually, we swears we really try" card to keep a modicum of rubes coming back to empty their pockets.
 
2014-06-13 05:48:10 PM

Al!: "Batter" is not a position.


And yet it's pretty much the only talent required for a non-pitcher to make the big leagues.

/any semi-athletic person can play most of the fielding positions
 
rka
2014-06-13 05:49:13 PM

Communist_Manifesto: Coors Field is seen more as a place to hangout as opposed to a place where you go to watch the Rockies win.


I never can figure why people think this is a problem.
 
2014-06-13 05:54:07 PM

IAmRight: any semi-athletic person can play most of the fielding positions


You've obviously never had to watch Dan Uggla play second base.
 
2014-06-13 05:54:12 PM

rka: Communist_Manifesto: Coors Field is seen more as a place to hangout as opposed to a place where you go to watch the Rockies win.

I never can figure why people think this is a problem.


Because the owners know it and they know they don't have to put a good team on the field to maintain attendance numbers and the revenues associated with them. If you want to pay a cover fee to have a baseball game on in the background while you drink over priced beer that's your prerogative though. Although if you don't care if the Rockies win or not I don't know why you would go unless you're a fan of the opposing team.
 
2014-06-13 05:56:05 PM

homarjr: The DH rule is great.

In fact, every single position should have the opportunity for a DH. The 9 best hitters vs the 9 best fielders. If you happen to be good playing both ways, all the power to you. You probably deserve a bigger contract.

This is the way football works. In stop-and-go sports, it makes total sense to sub out players at will.

/Screw tradition, I want the highest level of competition


This guy, he's alright
 
2014-06-13 05:56:36 PM

Al!: DeWayne Mann: notyoucoach: If they use a DH they're not playing baseball.

There are only two baseball leagues in the whole world?

Only 2 that actually play baseball.  Everyone that bats plays the field in actual baseball, and vice-versa, with very few exceptions (substitutions, injuries etc.)  Also, real baseball only has 9 positions.  "Batter" is not a position.


Well then "real baseball" must be a terribly boring sport with no real fans, if it can only support 2 leagues.

Shoot, there's more Women's Basketball leagues than that.
 
2014-06-13 06:13:40 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: IAmRight: any semi-athletic person can play most of the fielding positions

You've obviously never had to watch Dan Uggla play second base or swing a bat the last 2 years


you are a terribly hurtful man

/and I guess right in this instance
 
2014-06-13 06:21:13 PM

DeWayne Mann: Al!: DeWayne Mann: notyoucoach: If they use a DH they're not playing baseball.

There are only two baseball leagues in the whole world?

Only 2 that actually play baseball.  Everyone that bats plays the field in actual baseball, and vice-versa, with very few exceptions (substitutions, injuries etc.)  Also, real baseball only has 9 positions.  "Batter" is not a position.

Well then "real baseball" must be a terribly boring sport with no real fans, if it can only support 2 leagues.


If I want to watch a fat guy in his forties strike out I'd go to Hooters.
 
2014-06-13 06:29:28 PM

show me: Once again, a good showing for the Cardinals. I won't use the phrase that you all love to hate here, though.


The way I read that article was, read the explanation bits at the top, look at the first team, and start scrolling. As I kept scrolling, and scrolling, I made quiet "mm hmmm" noises to myself, not seeing the logo I was looking for...and there it was, sitting on top of the Yankees, to which I exclaimed aloud "You're damn right."
 
rka
2014-06-13 06:35:27 PM

Communist_Manifesto: rka: Communist_Manifesto: Coors Field is seen more as a place to hangout as opposed to a place where you go to watch the Rockies win.

I never can figure why people think this is a problem.

Because the owners know it and they know they don't have to put a good team on the field to maintain attendance numbers and the revenues associated with them. If you want to pay a cover fee to have a baseball game on in the background while you drink over priced beer that's your prerogative though. Although if you don't care if the Rockies win or not I don't know why you would go unless you're a fan of the opposing team.


The Rockies winning or losing doesn't deter from the fact that Coors Field and downtown Denver in general can be a fun place to hang out. It's better when they win, but I'm not getting hung up on the fortunes of any pro team. They ain't family.

I think the "we need to stay away until the team shrivels and dies only to be reborn anew" type of fandom is idiotic anyways. I like the Rockies, I like Coors Field. I see no reason to be a militant about it though.
 
2014-06-13 06:42:47 PM

rka: Communist_Manifesto: rka: Communist_Manifesto: Coors Field is seen more as a place to hangout as opposed to a place where you go to watch the Rockies win.

I never can figure why people think this is a problem.

Because the owners know it and they know they don't have to put a good team on the field to maintain attendance numbers and the revenues associated with them. If you want to pay a cover fee to have a baseball game on in the background while you drink over priced beer that's your prerogative though. Although if you don't care if the Rockies win or not I don't know why you would go unless you're a fan of the opposing team.

The Rockies winning or losing doesn't deter from the fact that Coors Field and downtown Denver in general can be a fun place to hang out. It's better when they win, but I'm not getting hung up on the fortunes of any pro team. They ain't family.

I think the "we need to stay away until the team shrivels and dies only to be reborn anew" type of fandom is idiotic anyways. I like the Rockies, I like Coors Field. I see no reason to be a militant about it though.


Well I guess it must be nice to have no standards. Can't ever be disappointed that way huh?
 
Al!
2014-06-13 07:07:01 PM

DeWayne Mann: Al!: DeWayne Mann: notyoucoach: If they use a DH they're not playing baseball.

There are only two baseball leagues in the whole world?

Only 2 that actually play baseball.  Everyone that bats plays the field in actual baseball, and vice-versa, with very few exceptions (substitutions, injuries etc.)  Also, real baseball only has 9 positions.  "Batter" is not a position.

Well then "real baseball" must be a terribly boring sport with no real fans, if it can only support 2 leagues.

Shoot, there's more Women's Basketball leagues than that.


And more people go to see the Cubs play each year than watch all of womens professional baskteball games combined.

Ok.  Gripes about the DH rule:

1) Encourages "Barnball" in that the pitcher is not held accountable for beaning batters by having to stand in the box himself (Only 2 of the top 10 HBP teams are NL teams, and all but 2 AL teams are in the top 20, and going back 5 years, only 1 year saw more NL teams in the top 10)
2) Encourages old men to play long after they are actually physically able to play because it's easy to go swing a bat a few times a day 5 days a week
3) In a very crowded talent pool, it takes a position away from younger talents because of #2.  Trust the new guy no one knows or the old man who you know is going to hit 20 HR, even though his average is .249?
4) Dampens the batting talent across the league as a whole, as pitchers in the AL don't practice batting, thus suck if they play on an NL team
 
2014-06-13 07:32:42 PM

Al!: 3) In a very crowded talent pool, it takes a position away from younger talents because of #2.  Trust the new guy no one knows or the old man who you know is going to hit 20 HR, even though his average is .249?


Not really.  Without the DH, you don't have any extra players since the pitcher will bat instead.  No young player would lose their shot since that shot wouldn't even be there without the DH.

Al!: 4) Dampens the batting talent across the league as a whole, as pitchers in the AL don't practice batting, thus suck if they play on an NL team


Are the NL pitchers really better hitters than their AL counterparts?  Besides, isn't the whole point of the DH is that it increases batting talent since you're replacing a pitcher who can't hit for shiat with a forty year old who can at least hit above replacement and knock a few dingers?
 
2014-06-13 07:45:35 PM

show me: Once again, a good showing for the Cardinals. I won't use the phrase that you all love to hate here, though.


No need. The fact that you had to come here and pat yourself on the back pretty much says it all.
 
2014-06-13 08:12:54 PM

Al!: 2) Encourages old men to play long after they are actually physically able to play because it's easy to go swing a bat a few times a day 5 days a week
3) In a very crowded talent pool, it takes a position away from younger talents because of #2.  Trust the new guy no one knows or the old man who you know is going to hit 20 HR, even though his average is .249?


Aside from the errors mentioned above in this thinking, doesn't the suggestion that a guy can bat .249 as a hitter only kind of show that it's not easy to "go swing a bat a few times five days a week"? Again, the difficulty level as far as major league baseball goes:

1. Pitching
2. Hitting
8. Catching
23. Middle infield defense
24. Center field defense
40. Corner infield defense
1000. Corner outfield defense

Spaces added to provide some level of scale of difficulty. You could find more than a million people who could play adequate MLB-caliber RF or LF. But barely any of those could hit a MLB pitch to save their lives.

/also, it's 6-7 days a week
 
Al!
2014-06-13 08:31:48 PM

IAmRight: Al!: 2) Encourages old men to play long after they are actually physically able to play because it's easy to go swing a bat a few times a day 5 days a week
3) In a very crowded talent pool, it takes a position away from younger talents because of #2.  Trust the new guy no one knows or the old man who you know is going to hit 20 HR, even though his average is .249?

Aside from the errors mentioned above in this thinking, doesn't the suggestion that a guy can bat .249 as a hitter only kind of show that it's not easy to "go swing a bat a few times five days a week"? Again, the difficulty level as far as major league baseball goes:

1. Pitching
2. Hitting
8. Catching
23. Middle infield defense
24. Center field defense
40. Corner infield defense
1000. Corner outfield defense

Spaces added to provide some level of scale of difficulty. You could find more than a million people who could play adequate MLB-caliber RF or LF. But barely any of those could hit a MLB pitch to save their lives.

/also, it's 6-7 days a week


I was referring to the difference between hitting and playing the field.  Playing the field you have to have an accurate, strong arm and you have to be able to sprint at a moments notice, while occasionally diving.  While batting you have to swing a bat, sometimes you have to give a solid effort into running to the next base, other times you just jog around.  Sometimes you have to swing the bat 6 or 7 times in a single inning.

As for the 6-7 days a week, those old guys can't play every day, even if they are just swinging the bat and jogging the bases.  All but the best of them will sit out 1 in 5 games.  Even Frank Thomas regularly sat 20-30 games a season.
 
2014-06-13 08:49:03 PM
Edgar Martinez should be in the HOF.
 
2014-06-13 09:27:31 PM

whither_apophis: Edgar Martinez should be in the HOF.


This.
 
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