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(The Daily Beast)   John McCain (R-eality challenged): We won the Iraq war. Obama lost it   (thedailybeast.com) divider line 83
    More: Asinine, John McCain, Iraq, Morning Joe  
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1022 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 Jun 2014 at 11:08 AM (23 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-06-13 10:21:56 AM  
19 votes:
mccain is in-farking-sane.

here's the deal: iraq is a european construct, created out of the desert after WWI by drawing lines on a map. those lines enclosed three historically antithetical factions: sunnis, shiates and kurds. stability was maintained initially through a colonial government, a strong monarchy and then through a brutal dictatorship. when we removed that dictatorship in 2003, it was inevitable that the country would fall apart. and that is what's happening now.

iraq should never have been a country in the first place, except maybe as a smaller sunni country, with the rest going to syria and an independent kurdistan.
2014-06-13 11:25:07 AM  
11 votes:

We "won"?


We attacked a country that had been under embargo for a decade, based solely on manufactured motive - lies, as normal people call them - and rabidly defended our "right" to basically raze the Iraqi infrastructure so that corporations could move in for the oil. We then installed a puppet government that would ensure that the oil would remain in the hands of those corporations, even as we committed atrocities that guaranteed the enmity of the population. We didn't "win" anything.

Bush put us in an untenable position. Leaving Iraq means that this outcome was inevitable, but staying in Iraq only postponed that inevitability, at high cost and with dwindling support. Frankly, Obama's taken way too long to get this done - we should've been gone at least two years ago. Of course, we should also have closed Gitmo, apologized to the EU, stopped illegal domestic and foreign surveillance, unwound the USA PATRIOT Act, and so on, and so on, but, given that much of that has nothing to do with Obama, it's going to be hard to make all that happen.

The legislative branch, not the executive branch, controls the money, and it's money that runs the world now. Money's upset that their enforcers - our military - are leaving Iraq, and so money's paid lapdogs are coming out to bark about it.

McCain is a lapdog. Nothing more. He's in deep for screwing up and giving Obama the Presidency, because he couldn't make Sarah Palin happen, and so he's repaying the campaign debts by barking for the folks that continue to hold his friggin' leash.
2014-06-13 10:52:36 AM  
6 votes:

ginandbacon: I'm curious as to when, exactly, we had this thing won. And when, exactly, we lost it.


We lost it the day we went in
2014-06-13 11:29:39 AM  
5 votes:
This is the same farking idiot who went to the Al Daura market protected by three infantry battalions, a Stryker platoon, a cavalry troop, an attack helicopter squadron, Delta Force, and an Iraqi National Police battalion, while he was wearing farking body armor and declared it safer than an Indiana farmers' market.
2014-06-13 11:33:50 AM  
4 votes:

qorkfiend: MBrady: raerae1980: Thanks Bush.

Can't believe I actually supported going to war. At least I never voted for him.

also be sure to thank: 0bama, both clintons, Biden, Kennedy, Reid, and every other democrat in congress who voted for going to war.  Not to mention Germany, France, the UK, and just about every nation in the UN.

/at least Bush asked congress first, eh?

You do realize that Obama wasn't a Senator in 2003, yes? And that the only opposition to the war at all came from Democrats, and it was the GOP who were fully united behind the idea?

Also, you are asserting that there was a UN Security Council resolution for intervention in Iraq? That's hilarious.


He's also full of sh*t. France did not support it. Anyone remember 'Freedom Fries'?
2014-06-13 10:56:39 AM  
4 votes:

FlashHarry: mccain is in-farking-sane.

here's the deal: iraq is a european construct, created out of the desert after WWI by drawing lines on a map. those lines enclosed three historically antithetical factions: sunnis, shiates and kurds. stability was maintained initially through a colonial government, a strong monarchy and then through a brutal dictatorship. when we removed that dictatorship in 2003, it was inevitable that the country would fall apart. and that is what's happening now.

iraq should never have been a country in the first place, except maybe as a smaller sunni country, with the rest going to syria and an independent kurdistan.


Same problem in Africa, really.  Arbitrary borders drawn up by foreigners that in no way represent the real ethnic, tribal or religious groups.  See also:  division of India and Pakistan
2014-06-13 11:41:48 AM  
3 votes:
So even John McCain admits since the start of the Iraq war are only options were to keep troops in a middle eastern country forever fighting and dying, or leave and see the country revert to its natural state.

Sorry John, if we have to keep troops in a country forever fighting, it does not mean we 'had it won'.
2014-06-13 11:37:40 AM  
3 votes:

Nadie_AZ: qorkfiend: MBrady: raerae1980: Thanks Bush.

Can't believe I actually supported going to war. At least I never voted for him.

also be sure to thank: 0bama, both clintons, Biden, Kennedy, Reid, and every other democrat in congress who voted for going to war.  Not to mention Germany, France, the UK, and just about every nation in the UN.

/at least Bush asked congress first, eh?

You do realize that Obama wasn't a Senator in 2003, yes? And that the only opposition to the war at all came from Democrats, and it was the GOP who were fully united behind the idea?

Also, you are asserting that there was a UN Security Council resolution for intervention in Iraq? That's hilarious.

He's also full of sh*t. France did not support it. Anyone remember 'Freedom Fries'?


I remember, because, I used to listen to talk radio, being told that ANYONE who did not support the war or Bush was a traitor and unamerican.
2014-06-13 11:29:44 AM  
3 votes:
fark you John...you're a shell of the man you think you are
2014-06-13 11:13:10 AM  
3 votes:
I am reminded to again give thanks this man, with Palin as VP, isn't sitting as Commander in Chief
2014-06-13 10:24:25 AM  
3 votes:
What he said^
2014-06-13 01:39:20 PM  
2 votes:
Hey guys, remember that time that McCain criticized Obama for not arming the rebels in Syria?

Do you think he realizes that the people he wanted to arm 6 months ago are the same people who are attacking Iraq right now?  Because that would be pretty embarrassing if he failed to make that connection.....
2014-06-13 01:00:38 PM  
2 votes:

The Why Not Guy: MBrady: also be sure to thank: 0bama, both clintons, Biden, Kennedy, Reid, and every other democrat in congress who voted for going to war.

Check your history. Barack Obama wasn't a Senator until 2005.

And as for the rest, when President Bush stood on the flight deck of the USS Lincoln, with a "mission accomplished" banner waving in the breeze, did you say "hey wait a second, some of this glory belongs to the Democrats, too"? I'll bet you didn't. I'll bet what you said was more like "I'm glad the Republicans are taking it to the terrorists unlike those wimpy Democrats."


They did not vote to "go to war", rather President Bush asked congress for the authorization to go to war because he said he needed it as a bargaining chip in forcing Saddam Husein and Iraq into giving up the WMDs we now know never existed. Bush said war would be a last resort and he would not abuse it. of course as soon as he got it he declared the UN reports stating that Iraq was in compliance as lies and invaded anyway.

So to say the Democrats voted "for the Iraq war" is intellectually dishonest. It's kind of like posting the picture of Reagan with the Mujahedin and claiming it was the Taliban and/or Al Queda without acknowledging all the nuance behind the actual reality.

The irony is President Obama asked for the same courtesy regarding Syria and the Republicans blocked it in order to make President Obama look bad, and undermine him on the international stage. Of course now the same Republicans are criticizing him for not using force. Of course if he did without congressional authorization (which he is constitutionally allowed to do) he would have been called a war mongering dictator by the same Republicans. It's just like they were criticizing President Obama for leaving Berghdal in Afghanistan before they crityicized President Obama for freeing Berghdal.

This is just another example of the political equivalent of "haters gonna hate".
2014-06-13 11:45:34 AM  
2 votes:
It should be noted that John McCain's definition of "winning" includes an open-ended, permanent occupation against the wishes of the country in question.
2014-06-13 11:41:10 AM  
2 votes:
raerae1980:
I remember, because, I used to listen to talk radio, being told that ANYONE who did not support the war or Bush was a traitor and unamerican.

Back in the days of blinding rage in the wake of the most devastating terrorist attack in our history.  I supported the war at first based largely on that kind of sentiment.  I was dead wrong, and I'm not afraid to admit being wrong.  Not sure what the hell we should do about it now though.
2014-06-13 11:38:54 AM  
2 votes:

Noam Chimpsky: parasol: Noam Chimpsky: Why are the Democrats letting an al qaeda army march across an allied nation conquering towns and leaving beheaded bodies in their wake?

okay - this made me laugh

Wow. You have a very dark sense of humor if you thought that was funny. I suppose it's funny until it's your family and friends that gets beheaded in a blitzkrieging al qaeda army's wake.


It is funny in that you asked why "the Democrats are...." as if the "democrats" in any position of power aren't stymied at every turn by the GOP - as in "Fartbama ren**ged on his pledge to end the war" or better "If he is for it, we're agin'it" OR as if "the Democrats" didn't bring this possibility up beforehand and were poo-poo'd
It is funny that you think ISIS is Al Qaeda.
It is funny in an ironic way that you view that country as an "allied nation in need of US intervention" when they have asked us to leave
It is amusing that so many "not Democrats" are appalled at the bloodshed in the wake of what was a predicable outcome but defend the NRA as if they were providing famine relief.

Is my humor dark? or am I faced with the option of laughing at the cartoon-like antics of "not Democrats" who demand the other party "fix"  things and thus wash their hands of all fault, all action and all critical thinking?

It is either laugh and vote as often as is legal - or become a spiteful, one-sided, judgmental a** on an open forum demanding "someone else do something because I am sure it will fail and I really want to watch and be right"

/why do so many find beheadings so grim and objectionable? and what are the odds they mocked the Newtown officer who resigned citing PTSD as being "just interested in disability payments"?
2014-06-13 11:38:14 AM  
2 votes:

llortcM_yllort: DjangoStonereaver: MaudlinMutantMollusk: ginandbacon: I'm curious as to when, exactly, we had this thing won. And when, exactly, we lost it.

We lost it the day we went in the GOP stole the 2000 election.

FTFY

raerae1980: Thanks Bush.

Can't believe I actually supported going to war. At least I never voted for him.

I really wanted to believe them when they said Saddam had WMDs, and was even willing to forgive them
flip flopping on whether they were nukes or gas.

Once they went in and found none, I wish I could say I was shocked.

Well, Gore wanted to overthrow Saddam too even if he wanted the US to do a better job coalition building first and about half of the Democrats voted to support it.  What makes you so sure President Gore wouldn't have done the same thing?


Assuming that Saddam didn't do anything to overtly provoke the US (and he wasn't that stupid),
I don't think Gore would have gone to the mattresses.  He'd have done what Clinton did: continued the
No-Fly zones and economic sanctions.

The GOP wanted the war to get revenge on Saddam for not stepping down after the first Gulf War,
pure and simple.
2014-06-13 11:30:16 AM  
2 votes:

Sirsky: The U.S.-Iraq Status of Forces Agreement (official name: Agreement Between the United States of America and the Republic of Iraq On the Withdrawal of United States Forces from Iraq and the Organization of Their Activities during Their Temporary Presence in Iraq) was a status of forces agreement (SOFA) between Iraq and the United States, signed by President George W. Bush in 2008. It established that U.S. combat forces would withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011.

Source


Doesn't matter. It's Obama's fault, as far as Congress is concerned. 2014 is an election year, and so Obama can do nothing right. He'll be blamed for not pulling out our troops by 2011, for pulling our troops out now, for not pulling all of them out immediately, for pulling them out in a staggered manner according to Bush's agreement, for anything that they feel may give them a leg up in the elections.

We're going to see more and more of this crap.
2014-06-13 11:27:34 AM  
2 votes:

MBrady: raerae1980: Thanks Bush.

Can't believe I actually supported going to war. At least I never voted for him.

also be sure to thank: 0bama, both clintons, Biden, Kennedy, Reid, and every other democrat in congress who voted for going to war.  Not to mention Germany, France, the UK, and just about every nation in the UN.

/at least Bush asked congress first, eh?


It was Bush's war and will always be Bush's war.
2014-06-13 11:26:45 AM  
2 votes:

FormlessOne: We "won"?
We attacked a country that had been under embargo for a decade, based solely on manufactured motive - lies, as normal people call them - and rabidly defended our "right" to basically raze the Iraqi infrastructure so that corporations could move in for the oil. We then installed a puppet government that would ensure that the oil would remain in the hands of those corporations, even as we committed atrocities that guaranteed the enmity of the population. We didn't "win" anything.

Bush put us in an untenable position. Leaving Iraq means that this outcome was inevitable, but staying in Iraq only postponed that inevitability, at high cost and with dwindling support. Frankly, Obama's taken way too long to get this done - we should've been gone at least two years ago. Of course, we should also have closed Gitmo, apologized to the EU, stopped illegal domestic and foreign surveillance, unwound the USA PATRIOT Act, and so on, and so on, but, given that much of that has nothing to do with Obama, it's going to be hard to make all that happen.

The legislative branch, not the executive branch, controls the money, and it's money that runs the world now. Money's upset that their enforcers - our military - are leaving Iraq, and so money's paid lapdogs are coming out to bark about it.

McCain is a lapdog. Nothing more. He's in deep for screwing up and giving Obama the Presidency, because he couldn't make Sarah Palin happen, and so he's repaying the campaign debts by barking for the folks that continue to hold his friggin' leash.


"The people of (the United States) have been led in Mesopotamia into a trap from which it will be hard to escape with dignity and honor."

Lawrence of Arabia knew. 100 years ago he knew. And we still don't understand or give a sh*t.
2014-06-13 11:24:08 AM  
2 votes:
Utterly not surprised ...

chartroose.files.wordpress.com
2014-06-13 11:21:49 AM  
2 votes:

StopDaddy: Anyone with a lick of knowledge about that region knew as soon we left the shiat was going to get real again. Whether it happened on Obama's watch or Hillary's or Jeb's <snicker> is moot. The insurgents knew we'd get tired and leave and it'd be time to make their move.

We won battles. We didn't win the war.


Anybody with a lick of knowledge about the region should have known that a soon as Saddam was removed as dictator shiat was going to get real there.
2014-06-13 11:21:06 AM  
2 votes:

StopDaddy: Anyone with a lick of knowledge about that region knew as soon we left the shiat was going to get real again. Whether it happened on Obama's watch or Hillary's or Jeb's <snicker> is moot. The insurgents knew we'd get tired and leave and it'd be time to make their move.

We won battles. We didn't win the war.


And it will happen in Afghanistan too. I don't see how this is surprising to anyone.
2014-06-13 11:20:16 AM  
2 votes:

salvador.hardin: McCain: Sarah Palin is capable of functioning as the Commander in Chief of our armed forces.


2.bp.blogspot.com
2014-06-13 11:19:53 AM  
2 votes:
Anyone with a lick of knowledge about that region knew as soon we left the shiat was going to get real again. Whether it happened on Obama's watch or Hillary's or Jeb's <snicker> is moot. The insurgents knew we'd get tired and leave and it'd be time to make their move.

We won battles. We didn't win the war.
2014-06-13 11:17:44 AM  
2 votes:
sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net

media.cagle.com
2014-06-13 11:13:46 AM  
2 votes:

MaudlinMutantMollusk: ginandbacon: I'm curious as to when, exactly, we had this thing won. And when, exactly, we lost it.

We lost it the day we went in

the GOP stole the 2000 election.

FTFY

raerae1980: Thanks Bush.

Can't believe I actually supported going to war. At least I never voted for him.


I really wanted to believe them when they said Saddam had WMDs, and was even willing to forgive them
flip flopping on whether they were nukes or gas.

Once they went in and found none, I wish I could say I was shocked.
2014-06-13 11:12:19 AM  
2 votes:

nekom: Same problem in Africa, really.


having lived in nigeria as a kid, i can vouch for this.
2014-06-13 10:59:03 AM  
2 votes:

FlashHarry: mccain is in-farking-sane senile.


ftfy
2014-06-13 10:41:51 AM  
2 votes:
I'm curious as to when, exactly, we had this thing won. And when, exactly, we lost it.
2014-06-13 10:32:05 AM  
2 votes:
Technically I guess we won the war. Unfortunately, like usual, nobody cared enough to think beyond blowing shiat up.

In addition to the above comments, middle eastern people don't have the cultural foundation to have real, successful democracies. I say that as a man of middle eastern descent. They need time to change their whole culture and mindset. You can't just shove elections at them and say "you're a democracy now! Have fun!"
2014-06-13 10:27:09 AM  
2 votes:
2.bp.blogspot.com
2014-06-13 05:23:00 PM  
1 votes:
How about forced retirement for senators over a certain age? McCain should be the example...
2014-06-13 03:47:02 PM  
1 votes:

SunsetLament: If it wasn't dangerous and sad, it would be hilarious how incredibly skilled Democrat politicians are at losing wars.

www.archives.com

www.truman.gov
www.fireandreamitchell.com

Frown on your shennanigans
2014-06-13 02:09:06 PM  
1 votes:
If the war was won, if the country was stable, we didn't need to stay.

But it wasn't stable and it was never going to be no matter how long we stayed or how many people we fed to the meat grinder.

Sometimes the only winning move is not to play.
2014-06-13 01:24:44 PM  
1 votes:

what_now: MBrady: raerae1980: Thanks Bush.

Can't believe I actually supported going to war. At least I never voted for him.

also be sure to thank: 0bama, both clintons, Biden, Kennedy, Reid, and every other democrat in congress who voted for going to war.  Not to mention Germany, France, the UK, and just about every nation in the UN.

/at least Bush asked congress first, eh?

Obama didn't vote on the IWR. He wasn't in Congress. And Germany didn't send troops to Iraq.

but you're close to being right.


2.bp.blogspot.com
2014-06-13 01:18:40 PM  
1 votes:
PanicMan:
I was worse. I looked at all the evidence, and decided there was no reason to go to war. But then when Bush said we have to go in, I believed him. Even after everything I knew about politics and human nature, I had to believe the President wouldn't lie about something so important. I never even liked him, but I believed him.

I was wrong and stupid. I only hope I don't make the same mistake again.


For me, it was Gen. Powell.  I had a great respect for that man, which is now forever tarnished.  Plus I was just pissed.  It's so easy to think well, the Muslims attacked us, so we have to hit them back without really thinking the whole thing through.  I was wrong, along with a whole lot of other people at the time.  What I don't understand is why people are STILL committed to the idea that it was a good idea, at this late hour and with the benefit of hindsight.  I guess some people just can't deal with having been wrong.
2014-06-13 12:41:18 PM  
1 votes:

nekom: raerae1980:
I remember, because, I used to listen to talk radio, being told that ANYONE who did not support the war or Bush was a traitor and unamerican.

Back in the days of blinding rage in the wake of the most devastating terrorist attack in our history.  I supported the war at first based largely on that kind of sentiment.  I was dead wrong, and I'm not afraid to admit being wrong.  Not sure what the hell we should do about it now though.


I was worse. I looked at all the evidence, and decided there was no reason to go to war. But then when Bush said we have to go in, I believed him. Even after everything I knew about politics and human nature, I had to believe the President wouldn't lie about something so important. I never even liked him, but I believed him.

I was wrong and stupid. I only hope I don't make the same mistake again.
2014-06-13 12:38:17 PM  
1 votes:

RyogaM: after America spent 10 years, $2.5 T. and the lives of over 4000 American soldiers


That, more than anything, defines that we 'lost' the Iraq 'war'.  $2.5 trillion in original dollars, and hundreds of billions every year since - just like Reagan got away with ballooning the national debt, W made it far worse.

Millions for defense but not one cent for tribute
has become
Trillions for offense but not one cent for making healthcare available to poor people
2014-06-13 12:32:34 PM  
1 votes:
John McCain should be forced to go to every high school graduation and give a speech that uses the phrase:

I believe that a percentage of you should give your lives in our efforts to provide the Iraq we want. Never you mind that their own citizens are dropping their weapons and refusing to defend themselves. We need a larger proportion of US solider deaths as we move into the future and you are perfect candidates. Your parents will grieve, but we must, at all cost, do what we can to salvage former President Bush's legacy, destroy President Obama's, pacify oil companies and defense contractors.
2014-06-13 12:32:27 PM  
1 votes:

MBrady: also be sure to thank: 0bama, both clintons, Biden, Kennedy, Reid, and every other democrat in congress who voted for going to war.


Check your history. Barack Obama wasn't a Senator until 2005.

And as for the rest, when President Bush stood on the flight deck of the USS Lincoln, with a "mission accomplished" banner waving in the breeze, did you say "hey wait a second, some of this glory belongs to the Democrats, too"? I'll bet you didn't. I'll bet what you said was more like "I'm glad the Republicans are taking it to the terrorists unlike those wimpy Democrats."
2014-06-13 12:29:36 PM  
1 votes:

llortcM_yllort: Lord_Baull: MBrady: raerae1980: Thanks Bush.

Can't believe I actually supported going to war. At least I never voted for him.

also be sure to thank: 0bama, both clintons, Biden, Kennedy, Reid, and every other democrat in congress who voted for going to war.  Not to mention Germany, France, the UK, and just about every nation in the UN.

/at least Bush asked congress first, eh?


Is this satire?

There are a lot of questionable names in that list (Obama, France, and Germany are the most glaring), but both Clintons did support the war.  Hillary Clinton voted for it and has since said that her decision made sense at the time.  It was one of the major reasons she lost the 2008 primary.  Slick Willy wanted to remove Saddam in 1998.  Criticizing the Clintons over their position in Iraq is completely fair game.


Sen. Ted Kennedy (assuming that's the right "Kennedy") voted against it.  He said it was one of his proudest votes in his career.

I spent a couple of years in Iraq.  I worked with the Iraqi National Police.  The NPs were more interested in looting houses than searching them,  more interested in making arrests to settle personal scores than pacifying the insurgency, and more interested in sneaking off to steal shiat out of our trucks than learning COIN tactics during our joint training sessions.

Throwing American troops back in there will just keep delaying the inevitable.
2014-06-13 12:10:41 PM  
1 votes:

ginandbacon: I'm curious as to when, exactly, we had this thing won. And when, exactly, we lost it.


Answer for the first part: see the aircraft carrier image above*

Answer for the second part: January 20th, 2009*

*not valid in this realm of reality
2014-06-13 12:09:48 PM  
1 votes:
The great political lesson from the War on Drugs : Success wins you nothing. Failure is the only way to stay in business.

If we are successful in the War on Terror, then the bureaucracy that conducts that war becomes unnecessary. In order to ensure that Homeland Security and the TSA last well into the next century, we need a steady supply of dangerous-looking foreigners we can point at in order to whip up a froth of mindless political sloganeering. Fortunately there is the Middle East, the dangerest. We have planted the seeds - shiat, we have an entire orchard - of virulent anti-Americanism that will probably outlive America itself. In order to protect us from this self-made menace, Our Glorious Leaders need to restore a medieval level of social stratification, wherein the lords will provide minimal subsistence only to those peasants who demonstrate their fealty and obsequiousness to their proven masters in ways that you can be certain will be made known to you when the time comes. Until then, keep working, drink as much as possible, and pretend you are the captain of your fate. You can even call yourself a Sovereign Citizen, that's good for a laugh.
2014-06-13 12:07:02 PM  
1 votes:

STFU JMcC YOU COCK



This growing chorus of "things were great in Iraq before 0bongo" is hilarious...and sad
2014-06-13 11:59:47 AM  
1 votes:
Shut up, McCain, you cock.
2014-06-13 11:57:53 AM  
1 votes:
In the past ten years I've been spit on, called an unamerican traitor, and openly mocked and threatened because I fought the Iraq war.

I have to laugh because now the same idiots are trying to claim that the mess they started is someone else's fault.
2014-06-13 11:57:11 AM  
1 votes:

ALL GIRLS AGREE TO PULL PANTIES DOWN: Lord_Baull: ALL GIRLS AGREE TO PULL PANTIES DOWN: FTFY.


Actuallly, I was considering bolding the entire sentence, but the "both clintons" caught my eye.

True.  Plus, the "every Democrat (and Republican) in Congress that voted for it" is based on two assumptions:

1.  The "inaccurate" intelligence given to Congress of Iraq's WMDs was presented in good faith, and not cherry-picked specifically to support an          invasion.

2.  The Authorization of Force bill was presented in good faith, which stated the Bush administration would explore every possible diplomatic resolution,         and only use force as an absolute last resort, and that the Bush administration was not secretly intending to invade no matter what..

Here's a hint.  They weren't.


I remember the Authorization of Force bill.  'This is just something to show Saddam that we're serious.  We won't actually use it unless we really, really have to.'  As soon as it passed, 'Unleash the Ultimatums!'
2014-06-13 11:56:08 AM  
1 votes:

Nabb1: Upon what basis do you think that he would not have enacted them?


You honestly think the Democrats would have drawn up the PATRIOT Act and passed it through Congress?

Nabb1: You want to excuse him for purely hypothetical reasons,


And you're assigning blame for purely hypothetical reasons. See above.
2014-06-13 11:51:20 AM  
1 votes:

FormlessOne: Frankly, Obama's taken way too long to get this done - we should've been gone at least two years ago.


Uhhh...we left over 2 years ago. Heckuva job there.
2014-06-13 11:47:56 AM  
1 votes:

Nabb1: Lord_Baull: Nabb1: FormlessOne: stopped illegal domestic and foreign surveillance, unwound the USA PATRIOT Act, and so on, and so on, but, given that much of that has nothing to do with Obama

Oh, bullshiat, those are both things this President has very much embraced and he owns it just as much as Bush.


We share a lot in common. I, too, bitterly complain when a president uses the expanded powers a predecessor and Congress gave him.

Poor guy just can't help himself, can he? Is there anything he's responsible for or is he just a puppet of the Bush Administration's nefarious plots?



Do I like Obama continuing Bush's policies? Absolutely not. Is it funny that you think Obama would have enacted those policies if they had not existed before? Absolutely.
2014-06-13 11:45:36 AM  
1 votes:
WAR IS PEACE!
2014-06-13 11:43:47 AM  
1 votes:

Aldon: So even John McCain admits since the start of the Iraq war are only options were to keep troops in a middle eastern country forever fighting and dying, or leave and see the country revert to its natural state.

Sorry John, if we have to keep troops in a country forever fighting, it does not mean we 'had it won'.


What it means is that Shinseki was right. Strange that nobody is mentioning that.
2014-06-13 11:43:13 AM  
1 votes:
Fark John McCain. He is a douche of mythical proportion.

He should have had a lifetime suite at the Hanoi Hilton.

He is the one person that exceeds 43 on my list of despicable, evil people.

/crappy pilot
//crappier politician
///crappiest as a human
2014-06-13 11:41:56 AM  
1 votes:

dinch: Noam Chimpsky: What does that have to do with an al qaeda army blitzkrieging across an allied nation in 2014?

You keep using this term. Why do you keep using this term? Al Qaeda came out and said that the tactics ISIS has been using are over the top. They are not the same group.



I'm pretty sure it's because the Bush Administration told him Al Qaeda was actively working with Saddam, which is why we have to invade.
2014-06-13 11:39:57 AM  
1 votes:

Nabb1: FormlessOne: stopped illegal domestic and foreign surveillance, unwound the USA PATRIOT Act, and so on, and so on, but, given that much of that has nothing to do with Obama

Oh, bullshiat, those are both things this President has very much embraced and he owns it just as much as Bush.



We share a lot in common. I, too, bitterly complain when a president uses the expanded powers a predecessor and Congress gave him.
2014-06-13 11:39:37 AM  
1 votes:
Oh, go crash another jet.
2014-06-13 11:38:53 AM  
1 votes:

Noam Chimpsky: Sirsky: The U.S.-Iraq Status of Forces Agreement (official name: Agreement Between the United States of America and the Republic of Iraq On the Withdrawal of United States Forces from Iraq and the Organization of Their Activities during Their Temporary Presence in Iraq) was a status of forces agreement (SOFA) between Iraq and the United States, signed by President George W. Bush in 2008. It established that U.S. combat forces would withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011.

Source

What does that have to do with an al qaeda army blitzkrieging across an allied nation in 2014?


You keep using this term. Why do you keep using this term? Al Qaeda came out and said that the tactics ISIS has been using are over the top. They are not the same group.
2014-06-13 11:36:07 AM  
1 votes:

Quasar: Technically I guess we won the war. Unfortunately, like usual, nobody cared enough to think beyond blowing shiat up.

In addition to the above comments, middle eastern people don't have the cultural foundation to have real, successful democracies. I say that as a man of middle eastern descent. They need time to change their whole culture and mindset. You can't just shove elections at them and say "you're a democracy now! Have fun!"


Someone said yesterday that the United States wanted democracy for Iraq more than Iraqis wanted democracy for Iraq.

That's abundantly clear.
2014-06-13 11:32:48 AM  
1 votes:

MBrady: raerae1980: Thanks Bush.

Can't believe I actually supported going to war. At least I never voted for him.

also be sure to thank: 0bama, both clintons, Biden, Kennedy, Reid, and every other democrat in congress who voted for going to war.  Not to mention Germany, France, the UK, and just about every nation in the UN.

/at least Bush asked congress first, eh?


You do realize that Obama wasn't a Senator in 2003, yes? And that the only opposition to the war at all came from Democrats, and it was the GOP who were fully united behind the idea?

Also, you are asserting that there was a UN Security Council resolution for intervention in Iraq? That's hilarious.
2014-06-13 11:30:30 AM  
1 votes:

All you need to know about McCain is this:



i865.photobucket.com


Even after the "illegitimate black baby" stuff allegedly started by Karl "Turd Blossom" Rove, he still sucked up to Dumbya and his cronies.
The man has no shame.
2014-06-13 11:30:22 AM  
1 votes:
I miss last week, when we were praising Bush for brokering the deal to pull the U.S. out of Iraq.
2014-06-13 11:28:39 AM  
1 votes:

MBrady: raerae1980: Thanks Bush.

Can't believe I actually supported going to war. At least I never voted for him.

also be sure to thank: 0bama, both clintons, Biden, Kennedy, Reid, and every other democrat in congress who voted for going to war.  Not to mention Germany, France, the UK, and just about every nation in the UN.

/at least Bush asked congress first, eh?


On the list of key words that indicate you have nothing useful to add.

Also includes: teatard, conservittard, libtard, etc...
2014-06-13 11:26:50 AM  
1 votes:

grumpfuff: [cdn.thedailybeast.com image 800x500]


Is he using his cheeks for storage now?


He's certainly not using his brain for storage anymore.
2014-06-13 11:26:43 AM  
1 votes:

FlashHarry: mccain is in-farking-sane.

here's the deal: iraq is a european construct, created out of the desert after WWI by drawing lines on a map. those lines enclosed three historically antithetical factions: sunnis, shiates and kurds. stability was maintained initially through a colonial government, a strong monarchy and then through a brutal dictatorship. when we removed that dictatorship in 2003, it was inevitable that the country would fall apart. and that is what's happening now.

iraq should never have been a country in the first place, except maybe as a smaller sunni country, with the rest going to syria and an independent kurdistan.

⇑↑ THIS!! ↑&Arr;

nekom: FlashHarry: mccain is in-farking-sane.

Same problem in Africa, really.  Arbitrary borders drawn up by foreigners that in no way represent the real ethnic, tribal or religious groups.  See also:  division of India and Pakistan

Cartographers may be among the most unwittingly dangerous people on the planet.
2014-06-13 11:22:39 AM  
1 votes:
The U.S.-Iraq Status of Forces Agreement (official name: Agreement Between the United States of America and the Republic of Iraq On the Withdrawal of United States Forces from Iraq and the Organization of Their Activities during Their Temporary Presence in Iraq) was a status of forces agreement (SOFA) between Iraq and the United States, signed by President George W. Bush in 2008. It established that U.S. combat forces would withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011.

Source
2014-06-13 11:21:38 AM  
1 votes:

Noam Chimpsky: parasol: Noam Chimpsky: Why are the Democrats letting an al qaeda army march across an allied nation conquering towns and leaving beheaded bodies in their wake?

okay - this made me laugh

Wow. You have a very dark sense of humor if you thought that was funny. I suppose it's funny until it's your family and friends that gets beheaded in a blitzkrieging al qaeda army's wake.


Pants on head.
2014-06-13 11:20:03 AM  
1 votes:
I never saw you raise your arms in victory John.
2014-06-13 11:19:47 AM  
1 votes:

MaudlinMutantMollusk: ginandbacon: I'm curious as to when, exactly, we had this thing won. And when, exactly, we lost it.

We lost it the day we went in Marjorie Cheney did not orally swallow a load of semen and Dick Cheney was born nine months later.


FTFY
2014-06-13 11:19:22 AM  
1 votes:

DjangoStonereaver: raerae1980: Thanks Bush.

Can't believe I actually supported going to war. At least I never voted for him.


I really wanted to believe them when they said Saddam had WMDs, and was even willing to forgive them
flip flopping on whether they were nukes or gas.

Once they went in and found none, I wish I could say I was shocked.


I was sure that, even if Iraq somehow had either type of weapon, they had no way of using it offensively.  Our nation had flown air patrols over their nation for a decade.. they could do nothing.
2014-06-13 11:19:21 AM  
1 votes:
He was part of the gang of idiots that thought Iraq would be like postwar Germany.
2014-06-13 11:17:04 AM  
1 votes:

beb004: raerae1980: Isn't McCain retiring soon? He's too old to be effective in government.

He's talking about running in 2016. Fark, I hope not!


Nooooooooo!!!!!!
2014-06-13 11:16:09 AM  
1 votes:

Noam Chimpsky: Why are the Democrats letting an al qaeda army march across an allied nation conquering towns and leaving beheaded bodies in their wake?


Because the U.S has no authority in a sovereign country. If they ask for help then the U.S can do something, but until then it is up to the Iraqi government to stop them.
2014-06-13 11:15:03 AM  
1 votes:
John "100 years in Iraq" McCain? Nope.
2014-06-13 11:13:13 AM  
1 votes:

raerae1980: Isn't McCain retiring soon? He's too old to be effective in government.


That's true for anyone over retirement age.
2014-06-13 11:11:59 AM  
1 votes:

FlashHarry: mccain is in-farking-sane.

here's the deal: iraq is a european construct, created out of the desert after WWI by drawing lines on a map. those lines enclosed three historically antithetical factions: sunnis, shiates and kurds. stability was maintained initially through a colonial government, a strong monarchy and then through a brutal dictatorship. when we removed that dictatorship in 2003, it was inevitable that the country would fall apart. and that is what's happening now.

iraq should never have been a country in the first place, except maybe as a smaller sunni country, with the rest going to syria and an independent kurdistan.


Except that now it is an OPEC nation, a very large oil producer, one of the largest in the world, and splitting it up geographically may be easy, but those folks aren't going to want to give up that oil revenue, and therein lies the problem - how do you split up oil money when the production of it isn't really spread out in the same way the ethnic and religious groups are?
2014-06-13 11:09:51 AM  
1 votes:
Okay, we're now back into the "you didn't believe, which was the real problem" territory that these idiots do with every stupid war.
2014-06-13 11:04:42 AM  
1 votes:
Isn't McCain retiring soon? He's too old to be effective in government.
2014-06-13 10:57:58 AM  
1 votes:
Thanks Bush.

Can't believe I actually supported going to war. At least I never voted for him.
2014-06-13 10:57:57 AM  
1 votes:

MaudlinMutantMollusk: What he said^


Why is that so goddamn hard for certain people to get?
2014-06-13 10:47:26 AM  
1 votes:
And the reason we didn't leave behind a residual force is because the Iraqi government wouldn't let us. We wanted to have any service member tried in a military court for crimes committed there, and they disagreed. Hence we were invited to leave.
2014-06-13 10:31:33 AM  
1 votes:
Done in one.
2014-06-13 10:30:47 AM  
1 votes:
So what happens if we decide to let them go it alone...no intervention from the US? Can we consider that approach?
 
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