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(The Daily Beast)   How the situation in Iraq is going to get worse when the US starts bombing insurgents opposed to the government, not better. In fact, it's already being called Vietnam 2.0   (thedailybeast.com) divider line 134
    More: Obvious, United States, Iraq, Iraqi government, Vietnam, South Vietnamese, Mosul, Iraqi security forces, American wars  
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1143 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 Jun 2014 at 1:44 PM (27 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-13 10:29:06 AM  
At this point, is anyone other than Cheney still claiming the war was a good idea?
 
2014-06-13 10:31:09 AM  
Let's suppose the government is going to do X, which is convenient since I have a whole article against them doing X.
 
2014-06-13 10:38:32 AM  
Can we ask the French to come in and clean it up like we tried to do for them in Vietnam?
 
2014-06-13 10:50:08 AM  
What do you mean "already"?
 
2014-06-13 11:03:20 AM  
www.troll.me
 
2014-06-13 11:04:36 AM  
What did they compare military quagmires to before Vietnam?
 
2014-06-13 11:18:44 AM  

nekom: At this point, is anyone other than Cheney still claiming the war was a good idea?


Other war criminals?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-06-13 11:24:52 AM  

nekom: At this point, is anyone other than Cheney still claiming the war was a good idea?


I think things have switched to the "you're glad that this happened" strategy.  That's usually what people say when they screw up badly, but don't want to take the blame for their screw up.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-06-13 11:25:55 AM  

Chris Ween: What did they compare military quagmires to before Vietnam?


The previous quagmire, WW I.  Now we get to retire Vietnam and compare them to Iraq.
 
2014-06-13 11:31:27 AM  
If we don't act quickly, the dominoes could start falling and soon the entire middle east could turn communist. Then it's a matter of time until it's at our shores.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-06-13 11:31:54 AM  
It's actually a lot like Vietnam.  We tried to fight the war ourselves and realized that it would take a thousand years, so we handed it over to the locals who ended up losing.

Then all the horrible disasters that were going to happen if we didn't fight or lost the war didn't happen and we realized that it was all for nothing.
 
2014-06-13 11:37:09 AM  
Why do we care? What objective is at risk now that we were willing to go to war over back when? None.

That's without debating the objectives that were put forth at the time.
 
2014-06-13 11:53:11 AM  
I notice that some of the GOP's bullshiatterati are now claiming "Well, WE won that war."

Then again these are also the people who truly believe that the Berlin Wall fell only because Ronald Reagan gave it a wink, snap-point and Charo-style hip thrust.
 
2014-06-13 11:54:56 AM  
Just to be clear, Obama is Pol Pot in this scenario, right?
 
2014-06-13 12:02:36 PM  

Eddie Adams from Torrance: Just to be clear, Obama is Pol Pot in this scenario, right?


Yes....and Sarah Palin is President
 
2014-06-13 12:08:14 PM  
I suggest that we had and still have no business invading countries to install a government we would rather have.
 
2014-06-13 01:36:59 PM  

vpb: It's actually a lot like Vietnam.  We tried to fight the war ourselves and realized that it would take a thousand years, so we handed it over to the locals who ended up losing.

Then all the horrible disasters that were going to happen if we didn't fight or lost the war didn't happen and we realized that it was all for nothing.


And we learned nothing.

Hello Syria!
 
2014-06-13 01:46:15 PM  
When Colin Powell (originally) smartly warned us all "if you break it, you own it," he neglected to mention what a farking lemon the merchandise was.
 
2014-06-13 01:46:33 PM  
Thanks Obama
 
2014-06-13 01:48:33 PM  
Another Vietnam?


...does this mean music will get good again?
 
2014-06-13 01:49:31 PM  

Diogenes: When Colin Powell (originally) smartly warned us all "if you break it, you own it," he neglected to mention what a farking lemon the merchandise was.


Fu*k that guy. He's arguably the worst of the bunch since he clearly knew the reasons for invading were bullshiat, but went in front of the UN and the American people anyway and lied his ass off. Piece of sh*t.
 
2014-06-13 01:50:29 PM  
So is this just a nostalgia thing for McCain?
 
2014-06-13 01:51:55 PM  
and we are droning Pakistan again

/war
/war never changes ends
 
2014-06-13 01:52:28 PM  

vpb: Chris Ween: What did they compare military quagmires to before Vietnam?

The previous quagmire, WW I.  Now we get to retire Vietnam and compare them to Iraq.


I thought they compared it to the Crimean War?  Or is that military bungles, not quagmires?
 
2014-06-13 01:53:19 PM  

meat0918: vpb: Chris Ween: What did they compare military quagmires to before Vietnam?

The previous quagmire, WW I.  Now we get to retire Vietnam and compare them to Iraq.

I thought they compared it to the Crimean War?  Or is that military bungles, not quagmires?


You know what, I have my wars completely mixed up.
 
2014-06-13 01:53:46 PM  

MurphyMurphy: Another Vietnam?


...does this mean music will get good again?


Lol, at this noob who mistakes his nostaligia for good music.

//In no way a defense of the pop music of the 2010s
 
2014-06-13 01:54:29 PM  

MurphyMurphy: Another Vietnam?


...does this mean music will get good again?


Unfortunately, the lack of a draft pretty much insulated everyone but the military from ever being directly influenced by the war.  Our culture was barely touched.
 
2014-06-13 01:54:33 PM  

Chris Ween: What did they compare military quagmires to before Vietnam?


the phillipines occupation, if we're talking strictly americans
 
2014-06-13 01:57:09 PM  
It was already "Bush's Vietnam."

And two decades and 4 trillion dollars later, this is an excellent example why the US cannot engage in "nationbuilding."

We barely won WWII. The illusion that we can wage imperialistic police actions with "democracy" as a flimsy pretense should have been a lesson learned in 1953 with Korea, let alone 1973 with Vietnam and now this shiat.
 
2014-06-13 01:57:59 PM  

vpb: It's actually a lot like Vietnam.  We tried to fight the war ourselves and realized that it would take a thousand years, so we handed it over to the locals who ended up losing.

Then all the horrible disasters that were going to happen if we didn't fight or lost the war didn't happen and we realized that it was all for nothing.


All for nothing?  Nah.. we enriched Halliburton and all those defense contractors.
 
2014-06-13 01:59:48 PM  

nekom: At this point, is anyone other than Cheney still claiming the war was a good idea?


Lots of people are out today saying it was awesome until Obama farked it up. Does that count?
 
2014-06-13 02:00:33 PM  
Well, you go to war with the lies you have.
 
2014-06-13 02:02:01 PM  

vpb: Chris Ween: What did they compare military quagmires to before Vietnam?

The previous quagmire, WW I.  Now we get to retire Vietnam and compare them to Iraq.


The modern high commitment military quagmire or protractacred proxy war is only possible with two large wealthy nations such as Russia and America in Vietnam, or one really farkin stupid wealthy nation like America in Iraq. The people who supported invading Iraq should have to wear a sign warning the rest of us not to trust their judgement and also pay for it with increased taxes.
 
2014-06-13 02:02:17 PM  
Gee it might be enough to get Iran to put the whole "death to America" bit away and want to be our allies again.

And that is more or less what we need here, strong regional players who have their acts together. Without that you are just playing in the sand.
 
2014-06-13 02:02:18 PM  
What do you mean already? Most of us have been calling it Vietnam 2 since the WMD lies or before. A big farking waste of time that we should have never even started in the first place. The Great Patriotic hurpadurp war that broke America.

Hopefully Obama stops pandering to to the hurpublicans and says "fark you iraq, go eat a dick" and keeps the bombs at home.
 
2014-06-13 02:03:19 PM  
upload.wikimedia.org

I tried to tell you, but you bastards wouldn't listen...
 
2014-06-13 02:03:27 PM  
We'd be out of Iraq by now if this war were exactly like Vietnam, as our campuses and streets would be burning by now.Parents would be dreading their sons coming of age only to be shipped off to a slaughter and powerful politicians would be scrambling to get their sons a gig with the national guard stateside.This country would benefit greatly by reestablishing the draft,as visions of 1968 scare the shiat out of politicians and make them much less likely to fark around where they don't belong.
 
2014-06-13 02:04:29 PM  
McCain is the one saying "I told you so", when the real person who should be saying such is Biden.  He predicted (and wanted to encourage) a Shia/Sunni/Kurd split with a loose federal government in Baghdad years ago.
 
2014-06-13 02:05:08 PM  

whidbey: It was already "Bush's Vietnam."

And two decades and 4 trillion dollars later, this is an excellent example why the US cannot engage in "nationbuilding."

We barely won WWII. The illusion that we can wage imperialistic police actions with "democracy" as a flimsy pretense should have been a lesson learned in 1953 with Korea, let alone 1973 with Vietnam and now this shiat.


we didn't even try to nation build. arguably the iraq provisional authority did the opposite. most of its decisions involved tearing down the economic and civil national structures that we hadn't blown up and then not actually replacing them with anything else.
 
2014-06-13 02:05:23 PM  
Iraq Is Vietnam 2.0...

Is this a repeat from 2003?
 
2014-06-13 02:05:37 PM  

hammettman: Well, you go to war with the lies you have.


Turns out Saddam was the only leader to tell the truth when he said of the US attacking Iraq "will open the gates of hell"
 
2014-06-13 02:07:49 PM  

kapaso: vpb: Chris Ween: What did they compare military quagmires to before Vietnam?

The previous quagmire, WW I.  Now we get to retire Vietnam and compare them to Iraq.

The modern high commitment military quagmire or protractacred proxy war is only possible with two large wealthy nations such as Russia and America in Vietnam, or one really farkin stupid wealthy nation like America in Iraq. The people who supported invading Iraq should have to wear a sign warning the rest of us not to trust their judgement and also pay for it with increased taxes.


I supported it when it started. I was frightened, angry, and foolish enough to believe that the administration wasn't psychotic enough to lie just to start a war. I regret that more every day.
 
2014-06-13 02:08:19 PM  

Chris Ween: What did they compare military quagmires to before Vietnam?


Gallipoli

It's what got Churchill fired in disgrace
 
2014-06-13 02:08:36 PM  
The US is better off just staying on the sidelines and watching.  The Iranians are going batshiat over the prospect of having a radical Sunni state on their southern border.  As soon as they get into the heavily Shi'ite areas, they'll intervene.  Which may have been the plan all along....
 
2014-06-13 02:08:52 PM  
Oh man, this is gonna be so fun. See, at first, the only way we could be conned into this bullsh*t was for a bunch of guys to be all "THEY'RE GONNA WMD YOUR CHILDREN! MUSHROOM CLOUD! MUSHROOM CLOUD!" but now, all they have to do is point out how since we've already sunk trillions into this sh*thole, we can't LEAVE, if we leave, it'll undo all our hard work just barely keeping that sh*thole from sinking into mass civil war. We have to stay there forever babysitting these f*cking assholes, or it will have ALL BEEN FOR NAUGHT. Can't have that. Can't have that bullsh*t war have been COMPLETELY pointless. Then those f*cking asshole liberals will have been right all along. And that, my friends, is the real tragedy here.
 
2014-06-13 02:10:45 PM  

neongoats: Hopefully Obama stops pandering to to the hurpublicans and says "fark you iraq, go eat a dick" and keeps the bombs at home.


So far, that's what's he's done.

The issue is that it would, um, be a Very Bad Thing in general if a group so extreme they got kicked out of Al Queda took over much of Iraq.  That being said, the ISIS seems to have no interest in terroristic attacks outside the Middle East, which makes their methods different from Al Queda and much less of a direct security problem for the United States.
 
2014-06-13 02:11:39 PM  

whidbey: We barely won WWII


Wat?
 
2014-06-13 02:12:36 PM  

whidbey: It was already "Bush's Vietnam."

And two decades and 4 trillion dollars later, this is an excellent example why the US cannot engage in "nationbuilding."

We barely won WWII. The illusion that we can wage imperialistic police actions with "democracy" as a flimsy pretense should have been a lesson learned in 1953 with Korea, let alone 1973 with Vietnam and now this shiat.


You're going to have to clarify that.
 
2014-06-13 02:20:03 PM  

Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: Chris Ween: What did they compare military quagmires to before Vietnam?

Gallipoli

It's what got Churchill fired in disgrace


It got Churchill fired, and it did turn into a quagmire.  However, compared to what was going on in France, it was a much smaller-scale quagmire.  Plus, it damn near worked.  If just a few more things had gone right, they would have seized the peninsula, which almost certainly would have meant the fall of Istanbul, and therefore Turkey would have been knocked out of the war.

World history would have been far, far different if just a few more men had kept their wits on a few hilltops at a few critical moments.
 
2014-06-13 02:20:23 PM  
Yeah, "Vietnam 2.0" makes no sense here. We're at LEAST at Vietnam 4.0 or 4.5 by now.
 
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