Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(CNN)   Meh: Average salary last year was $52,100. WTFark: Average CEO compensation rose to $15.2 million, or 296X the average worker   ( money.cnn.com) divider line
    More: Sick, CEO, Lawrence Mishel, stock market crash, restricted stock, executive compensation  
•       •       •

716 clicks; posted to Business » on 13 Jun 2014 at 8:50 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



112 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Newest | Show all

 
2014-06-13 07:06:35 AM  
In before:  "But they need that money to recruit talented people", "take it up with the BOD", and "higher wages for workers are the socialism".
 
2014-06-13 07:17:00 AM  
good for them, they worked hard and earned that extra money. now i have to get back to my menial job before someone sees me using the interwebs
 
2014-06-13 07:30:00 AM  
It's a large reason for the divisive politics of the US. The growing economic disparity between the very wealthy and the rest of us makes voters grumpy. Grumpy Democrats blame corrupt financial companies and multinational corporations. Grumpy Republicans blame corrupt politicians and poor folks getting food stamps. In fact, it's the concentration of wealth in the hands of a tiny number of elites.

Private property and capitalism can increase productivity and real wages. However, at times, they bring excesses that demand correction or that period of increased productivity ends.
 
2014-06-13 07:32:33 AM  
I'd probably be making that $15.2M if I didn't hate golf. Oh well, it's worth it.
 
2014-06-13 07:44:57 AM  
"The real owners are the big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians, they're an irrelevancy. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They've long since bought and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the statehouses, the city halls. They've got the judges in their back pockets. And they own all the big media companies, so that they control just about all of the news and information you hear. They've got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying lobbying to get what they want. Well, we know what they want; they want more for themselves and less for everybody else."

"But I'll tell you what they don't want.  They don't want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don't want well-informed, well-educated people capable of critical thinking. They're not interested in that. That doesn't help them. That's against their interests. They don't want people who are smart enough to sit around the kitchen table and figure out how badly they're getting farked by a system that threw them overboard 30 farking years ago.

"You know what they want? Obedient workers people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork but just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shiattier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it. And, now, they're coming for your Social Security. They want your farking retirement money. They want it back, so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street. And you know something? They'll get it. They'll get it all, sooner or later, because they own this farking place. It's a big club, and you ain't in it. You and I are not in the big club."

"This country is finished."
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-06-13 07:45:48 AM  
Delay:
Private property and capitalism can increase productivity and real wages. However, at times, they bring excesses that demand correction or that period of increased productivity ends.

Those times are 100% of the time when you let the wealthy make all the rules.
 
2014-06-13 07:52:06 AM  
Well sure. They do 296 times the work. Did you see Days of Future Past? To a CEO us regular workers move like normal people do to Quicksilver.
 
2014-06-13 07:53:05 AM  
Private-sector, non-supervisory workers, meanwhile, earned an average of $52,100.

so that's not exactly "average salary". IIRC my company technically lists me as some sort of manager even th
 
2014-06-13 07:54:20 AM  
Well shiat, thanks iphone keyboard.
As I was saying, I'm technically considered a supervisor to get around laws about overtime or some such. I think.
 
2014-06-13 07:55:49 AM  

Delay: It's a large reason for the divisive politics of the US. The growing economic disparity between the very wealthy and the rest of us makes voters grumpy. Grumpy Democrats blame corrupt financial companies and multinational corporations. Grumpy Republicans blame corrupt politicians and poor folks getting food stamps. In fact, it's the concentration of wealth in the hands of a tiny number of elites.

Private property and capitalism can increase productivity and real wages. However, at times, they bring excesses that demand correction or that period of increased productivity ends.


Exactly. The capitalists have played the proletariat and the petite bourgeoisie against each other. Someone warned us about this...
 
2014-06-13 08:00:01 AM  

Sybarite: Well sure. They do 296 times the work. Did you see Days of Future Past? To a CEO us regular workers move like normal people do to Quicksilver.


You could be the combo scientist/CEO/one man marketing team like Bolivar Trask was. That dude earns his pay check.

/ still confused by the part where Mystique breaks into his office and morphs back into her normal form. For one, why wouldn't she stay in disguise? Two, she reaches up to get files out of his filing cabinets. There's no way that little dude would use such a tall cabinet. Maybe he has somebody making 0.005% of his salary there to get files for him?
 
2014-06-13 08:04:29 AM  
THIS is the biggest reason the economy has been growing so slowly. Hear me out...

An individual can only generate so much demand. There's only so much food to be eaten, cars to be driven, houses to be lived in, etc. Once you get beyond an income that satisfies those demands, and that income starts accumulating or sitting in investments (as it's doing now with both companies and individuals) then it starts freezing the economy.

That's because the economy works when I, an average person, am providing something of value to my average-person neighbor, and he in turn is providing something of value to me. But if I have less money (because it's all in the pockets of the super-rich) then that means I have less demands, I'm not going out and spending as much, which in turn means the economy is slower than it should be.

The corrective measure is higher taxes on the super-rich, to get that money away from them, back to the average person so he can turn around and satisfy more demands, ask for more things of value from his neighbor. Another fix would be to raise the interest rate that is charged banks to borrow from the Fed to something greater than 0% so that they aren't just sitting on the money or loaning it back to the government at 3% or so.

The wealthy should be in favor of this, but they're short-sighted and focused only on next month's profits. And the only way they can get that is by increasing prices on everything. Thus the middle and lower classes get squeezed even more.

And what's worse is that water carriers like Fox News and Rush have so many people convinced that the wealthy SHOULD have all the money that we've reached virtual gridlock in this nation in our political system, and these fixes will almost assuredly never get implemented in this climate.
 
2014-06-13 08:19:50 AM  
Do you mean, "My spending is your income, and your spending is my income?" Fox News tells me that's not capitalism that's socialism.
 
2014-06-13 08:24:26 AM  

serial_crusher: / still confused by the part where Mystique breaks into his office and morphs back into her normal form. For one, why wouldn't she stay in disguise? Two, she reaches up to get files out of his filing cabinets. There's no way that little dude would use such a tall cabinet. Maybe he has somebody making 0.005% of his salary there to get files for him?


Here's the one I didn't get.  why not keep quicksilver around?  You're trying to stop an assassination and here you have someone willing to help you that can literally pluck bullets out of the air.  Seems like he would be useful to have around, right?
 
2014-06-13 08:49:02 AM  
Let's do some math here, people.

There are more at least 500 workers earning $52,100 or at least $26,050,000
There is 1 CEO earning $15,200,000.

Plus each one of those 500 workers gets a compensation package, be it health care, pension funding, etc.  With the CEO, you're only giving 1 person a compensation package.  Not to mention that you're looking at 499 fewer computers, desks, chairs, parking spots.  The list goes on.

Seems to me that the CEO is a bargain in comparison.  You're paying 499 fewer employees at least $25,000,000 less.

Don't go blaming the CEO if you can't explain it out.
 
2014-06-13 08:55:58 AM  
Start your own corporations and you can pay your CEO and all other employees as much or as little as you want.

Until then, go fark yourselves.
 
2014-06-13 08:58:45 AM  

SurfaceTension: THIS is the biggest reason the economy has been growing so slowly. Hear me out...

An individual can only generate so much demand. There's only so much food to be eaten, cars to be driven, houses to be lived in, etc. Once you get beyond an income that satisfies those demands, and that income starts accumulating or sitting in investments (as it's doing now with both companies and individuals) then it starts freezing the economy.

That's because the economy works when I, an average person, am providing something of value to my average-person neighbor, and he in turn is providing something of value to me. But if I have less money (because it's all in the pockets of the super-rich) then that means I have less demands, I'm not going out and spending as much, which in turn means the economy is slower than it should be.

The corrective measure is higher taxes on the super-rich, to get that money away from them, back to the average person so he can turn around and satisfy more demands, ask for more things of value from his neighbor. Another fix would be to raise the interest rate that is charged banks to borrow from the Fed to something greater than 0% so that they aren't just sitting on the money or loaning it back to the government at 3% or so.

The wealthy should be in favor of this, but they're short-sighted and focused only on next month's profits. And the only way they can get that is by increasing prices on everything. Thus the middle and lower classes get squeezed even more.

And what's worse is that water carriers like Fox News and Rush have so many people convinced that the wealthy SHOULD have all the money that we've reached virtual gridlock in this nation in our political system, and these fixes will almost assuredly never get implemented in this climate.


All those investments fund spending you dummy. Do you think cash just sits in a vault? No, it goes to companies or goverments who spend the money on wages, capital expenditure, or recycle it otherwise back into the economy.

Even the funds "loaned back to the government at 3%" fund all the government spending you guys seem to think is so beneficial.

Cripes.
 
2014-06-13 09:02:16 AM  
I'm not sure why it matters. Sure, if there were two CEOs doing the same job in the same company and not getting the same money, that is one thing. Comparing different categories of jobs in the same company to each other doesn't make as much sense. If so, baseball players on a team should only be making what their batting coach makes.
 
2014-06-13 09:03:28 AM  
Don't care what anyone else is able to demand in salary.  Don't care what you make either, yes you.  Even if it is twice what I make doing what I consider to be the same job.  Good for you.  I hope the CEO where I work makes $50 million this year.

/not a Republican
/not a good little leftist crybaby either
 
2014-06-13 09:05:12 AM  

serial_crusher: Private-sector, non-supervisory workers, meanwhile, earned an average of $52,100.

so that's not exactly "average salary". IIRC my company technically lists me as some sort of manager even th


That way they don't have to pay you overtime though. My company would cry if they had to pay me ot. I cry that they don't considering the hour I put in, in the last few months..
 
2014-06-13 09:10:57 AM  
Nobody is worth a salary of 15 million dollars a years. That's confiscation. Anybody that tells you otherwise is part of the problem.
 
2014-06-13 09:11:18 AM  

serial_crusher: Private-sector, non-supervisory workers, meanwhile, earned an average of $52,100.

so that's not exactly "average salary". IIRC my company technically lists me as some sort of manager even th


It's average compensation (wonder if it includes non-cash benefits?) for the companies in the survey. That's way higher than median household income and even higher than per capita GDP by some measures.

Also, why would you need to be a "manager" to get no overtime? There have been plenty of places I've worked where everybody was salaried, and nobody got overtime even if they work over 40 hours. I was going to say you might have some weird state laws, but your profile says you're in Texas, which has a reputation for being business-friendly with its labor laws.
 
2014-06-13 09:15:29 AM  

padraig: Nobody is worth a salary of 15 million dollars a years. That's confiscation. Anybody that tells you otherwise is part of the problem.


But those sports players are talented.
 
2014-06-13 09:16:34 AM  

I_Am_Weasel: Plus each one of those 500 workers gets a compensation package, be it health care, pension funding, etc.


Just found the report that TFA was talking about (which it didn't link to, harrumph)  http://www.epi.org/publication/methodology-measuring-ceo-compensation - ratio/:

We therefore develop a measure of the annual compensation of typical domestic workers in the key industry of each firm in our sample. We derive this measure by identifying the average hourly earnings of production and nonsupervisory workers in an industry, and then converting that figure to a full-time, full-year wage plus benefits, which is the measure of annual compensation.

It doesn't look like they accounted for pensions, but there are not many companies that still offer that.
 
2014-06-13 09:19:37 AM  

Arkanaut: serial_crusher: Private-sector, non-supervisory workers, meanwhile, earned an average of $52,100.

so that's not exactly "average salary". IIRC my company technically lists me as some sort of manager even th

It's average compensation (wonder if it includes non-cash benefits?) for the companies in the survey. That's way higher than median household income and even higher than per capita GDP by some measures.

Also, why would you need to be a "manager" to get no overtime? There have been plenty of places I've worked where everybody was salaried, and nobody got overtime even if they work over 40 hours. I was going to say you might have some weird state laws, but your profile says you're in Texas, which has a reputation for being business-friendly with its labor laws.


Company's based in California so we follow a lot of their rules.  Shrug, I probably misheard something.  I let the HR people do their thing and I do mine.
 
2014-06-13 09:21:46 AM  
I'm a CEO.  I wonder if they included my compensation in their study.  I'm guessing not.

/I'd really drag the class average down.....
 
2014-06-13 09:29:17 AM  
Average CEOs of what class?  Who did they sample?

There are a lot, a majority of "CEOs" who don't make anywhere near $152m
 
2014-06-13 09:29:38 AM  
In all seriousness, I'd like to see a study that compares "value" across an organization, from avg worker to CEO. Cross-matched against salary ratio would be interesting.

Seems to me that if a CEO is dealing with a value that is 296x the average worker, then this is about what it should be in terms of a value equation.   It seems like more and more articles are focusing on the individual as if there is some inherent equality that should exist on an individual basis, and that is just not the way it works.

Sure, I know there are situations where CEOs still get millions while a company is losing money, but that is a different set of questions.  It is conceivable that a CEO can be delivering value in a loss situation, meaning if not for that particular CEO, the company would have lost more money, thus justifying their pay.

If anyone know of such value based research, it would be interesting.  Too lazy to google for it right now.
 
2014-06-13 09:30:20 AM  

padraig: Nobody is worth a salary of 15 million dollars a years. That's confiscation. Anybody that tells you otherwise is part of the problem.


What if that person brings $30m of revenue into a company?

That person isn't worth $15m?
 
2014-06-13 09:30:33 AM  
Has anyone investigated whether global warming climate change is somehow responsible for this?

Because I wouldn't be surprised.
 
2014-06-13 09:30:54 AM  

MugzyBrown: Average CEOs of what class?  Who did they sample?

There are a lot, a majority of "CEOs" who don't make anywhere near $152m


According to the study it's looking at "CEOs at the top 350 firms based on sales ... each year for 1992-2012"
 
2014-06-13 09:31:53 AM  

MugzyBrown: padraig: Nobody is worth a salary of 15 million dollars a years. That's confiscation. Anybody that tells you otherwise is part of the problem.

What if that person brings $30m of revenue into a company?

That person isn't worth $15m?


Revenue or profit?
 
2014-06-13 09:33:11 AM  
Oh look, this thread again.  Listen, I'm as disgusted as everyone else with the massive income disparity this nation appears to be indulging.  I also agree that if things don't change, long-term prospects for both sides of the income disparity divide look less than optimistic.  But, I've grown bored of hearing people snark and biatch about it without offering a viable solution.

So, honestly, what can we do to address the issue?  What regulations on CEO pay could the Government pass on corporations that would not get challenged and ultimately defeated in court?  This isn't a case where raising the minimum wage is going to affect significant change (they should do that anyway but it isn't going to solve this problem)  I can't see the government legally mandating that Corporations redistribute income between the CEO and workers.  So farkers, what is the answer?
 
2014-06-13 09:36:26 AM  

dccc: In all seriousness, I'd like to see a study that compares "value" across an organization, from avg worker to CEO. Cross-matched against salary ratio would be interesting.

Seems to me that if a CEO is dealing with a value that is 296x the average worker, then this is about what it should be in terms of a value equation.   It seems like more and more articles are focusing on the individual as if there is some inherent equality that should exist on an individual basis, and that is just not the way it works.

Sure, I know there are situations where CEOs still get millions while a company is losing money, but that is a different set of questions.  It is conceivable that a CEO can be delivering value in a loss situation, meaning if not for that particular CEO, the company would have lost more money, thus justifying their pay.

If anyone know of such value based research, it would be interesting.  Too lazy to google for it right now.



That is definitely hard to quantify, that's the issue.

For me though it's easy to do a gut check. Your salary is a representation of your value to society/employer.  I'm a smart guy, have an MBA, good experience etc.. In my job let's say I'm at 100k. I'm pretty sure that I couldn't go find 4 dudes making 25k a piece and have them go my job as well I as do it. Now, compare me to a low/mid CEO making 2 million a year. Likely that guy has a degree from an IVY league school and more experience, maybe a few more IQ points or skills. In that scenario he makes 20x what I make. Could 20 of me do his job as well or better? I have to assume so.

Now of course to be fair most jobs can't be done by committee. Having all of the skills/smarts in one body is key. However, what if I could be paid 500k, and stick the rest of the money into hiring better line workers. Maybe I'd only be 80% as effective as Mr. Ceo, but would my company do better?
 
2014-06-13 09:36:48 AM  

Arkanaut: According to the study it's looking at "CEOs at the top 350 firms based on sales ... each year for 1992-2012"


I obviously missed that.

So we're talking huge companies.

Anyway, CEOs are often compensated with stock options.  The federal reserve has made it's policy of zero interest rate which encourages money to be invested, thus the stockmarket has been pumped and pumped.  That's why top CEOs compensation is so high.

Arkanaut: Revenue or profit?


Ok, profit.
 
2014-06-13 09:37:01 AM  

padraig: Nobody is worth a salary of 15 million dollars a years. That's confiscation. Anybody that tells you otherwise is part of the problem.


A large part of the compensation isn't base salary. A lot of the pay growth is due to stock options and the performance of the stock market overall is responsible for much of the CEO compensation growth.
 
2014-06-13 09:37:07 AM  

v2micca: So farkers, what is the answer?


History will tell you.
 
2014-06-13 09:42:05 AM  

MugzyBrown: padraig: Nobody is worth a salary of 15 million dollars a years. That's confiscation. Anybody that tells you otherwise is part of the problem.

What if that person brings $30m of revenue into a company?

That person isn't worth $15m?


No. You do not deserve half the revenue you bring as compensation. Create your own company if that's what you want.
 
2014-06-13 09:43:59 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: v2micca: So farkers, what is the answer?

History will tell you.


Did you miss the part where I said I'm bored with the standard snarking and biatching, or did you just not give a fark?
 
2014-06-13 09:45:03 AM  

padraig: No. You do not deserve half the revenue you bring as compensation. Create your own company if that's what you want.


Ya know who would disagree with you?  The owner of that company.

If I own a company, I would be more than happy to pay somebody $15mm who is giving me $30mm.

Sure maybe this guy can open his own company, but sometimes that detracts for their ability to bring in revenue.
 
2014-06-13 09:49:48 AM  
HotWingConspiracy: v2micca: So farkers, what is the answer?

History will tell you.


History tells me that there will be a big crash.  The politically connected major players will be bailed out with tax payer money and we'll repeat the exercise in a few years.
 
2014-06-13 09:57:28 AM  
Uhh... we have been here before, lets try what has worked before, going back to the Wisconsin Idea

1912 Wisconsin Idea book

A big part of the Wisconsin Idea was preventing Stage 3 of this picture:
www.library.wisc.edu
 
2014-06-13 10:06:48 AM  

pkellmey: padraig: Nobody is worth a salary of 15 million dollars a years. That's confiscation. Anybody that tells you otherwise is part of the problem.

But those sports players are talented.


And that actor is considered attractive and reads a script well.
 
2014-06-13 10:10:12 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Do you think cash just sits in a vault?


Actually, at this point a lot of it is just sitting in a vault.  Corporations right now have more cash on hand than they know what to do with.  They aren't investing because there is no demand because nobody has any money, because the corporations don't want to pay living wages so they can have more money.

Back when Henry Ford was an alive, he made sure his employees were well compensated, which created a demand for the products he built, which fueled the economy.  We've gone 180 degrees from the days of Henry Ford.
 
2014-06-13 10:11:32 AM  

syberpud: pkellmey: padraig: Nobody is worth a salary of 15 million dollars a years. That's confiscation. Anybody that tells you otherwise is part of the problem.

But those sports players are talented.

And that actor is considered attractive and reads a script well.


And that other one has a television show about her life, even though she really doesn't do anything of much value.
 
2014-06-13 10:13:08 AM  

padraig: MugzyBrown: padraig: Nobody is worth a salary of 15 million dollars a years. That's confiscation. Anybody that tells you otherwise is part of the problem.

What if that person brings $30m of revenue into a company?

That person isn't worth $15m?

No. You do not deserve half the revenue you bring as compensation. Create your own company if that's what you want.


Maybe he already did and thats why he gets the 15 million.
 
2014-06-13 10:17:44 AM  

Dog Welder: Debeo Summa Credo: Do you think cash just sits in a vault?

Actually, at this point a lot of it is just sitting in a vault.  Corporations right now have more cash on hand than they know what to do with.  They aren't investing because there is no demand because nobody has any money, because the corporations don't want to pay living wages so they can have more money.

Back when Henry Ford was an alive, he made sure his employees were well compensated, which created a demand for the products he built, which fueled the economy.  We've gone 180 degrees from the days of Henry Ford.


An average salary of 51k does allow you to buy an iphone if you work for Apple.

But you dont need a new Iphone each week....you proabbly dont need a new phone every time Apple releases a new model of iphone either.

How many cars per year was the average Ford employee buying from the company? I mean they could only drive one at a time....


People waste a huge amount of money on frivolous things and then blame the company they work for for not compensating them enough when they need money for necessities.

/inb4 refrigerator!!!
 
2014-06-13 10:18:40 AM  
The median income for all persons earning reportable income in 2012 was $27,811.   The article only discusses average compensation for workers in the industries from whence the CEO wages were extracted.  Neither number is an accurate national average.  My guess is that the CEO numbers nationally would be lower too.   Staying with them though...the average CEO earns 547 times more than the average individual wage earner in the US.


The more you know...
 
2014-06-13 10:20:51 AM  

v2micca: Oh look, this thread again.  Listen, I'm as disgusted as everyone else with the massive income disparity this nation appears to be indulging.  I also agree that if things don't change, long-term prospects for both sides of the income disparity divide look less than optimistic.  But, I've grown bored of hearing people snark and biatch about it without offering a viable solution.

So, honestly, what can we do to address the issue?  What regulations on CEO pay could the Government pass on corporations that would not get challenged and ultimately defeated in court?  This isn't a case where raising the minimum wage is going to affect significant change (they should do that anyway but it isn't going to solve this problem)  I can't see the government legally mandating that Corporations redistribute income between the CEO and workers.  So farkers, what is the answer?


You do what we used to do

Tax the shiat out of income and wealth at the higher levels

This way real growth is realized when more money goes into (is invested) the middle class.

Henry Ford could have paid his workers shiat and cut corners on every turn of his business, squirreling away every dime he could while trying to squeeze a half point gain by next quarter to bolster his capital gains

But he didnt, because the policies and economics of the times didnt reward that shiat the way it does today

This isnt a great mystery. These arent uncharted waters ffs, so stop pretending they are.

Its this simple: Look at what we've done since the Gordon Gecko 80's and say "well that was a bad idea, lets undo some of this insanity"

Tax capital gains alongside income.
Cut payroll taxes drastically,
zero fed income tax withheld under 30k,
tax insane wealth.
Done.
 
2014-06-13 10:32:19 AM  
damn, CEO's have bills too!  geez.
 
Displayed 50 of 112 comments


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Newest | Show all


View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





Top Commented
Javascript is required to view headlines in widget.

In Other Media
  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report