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(Daily Mail)   Pop quiz hotshot. Armed robbers are using your daughter as a human shield. What do you do? What do you do?   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 458
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18828 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Jun 2014 at 4:36 AM (13 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-12 09:05:15 AM

phenn: Dimensio: soporific: Dimensio: Elliot8654: Yay! Instead of anyone getting a fair trial or actually figuring out what caused this or how to make it better, we just kill people!

I am pleased that I am not the only person who recognize that killing someone who is allegedly threatening the life of a family member denies that person due process and a fair trial.

Again I ask, what should the father have done? What, in your view, is the correct action to take in this situation?

Since you believe that what he did was wrong, what was the right choice?

Contact law enforcement. The duty of police is to protect citizens.

If they had done that, I can almost guarantee you that girl would be dead right now. The second LE shows up, it would have gone from home invasion to all-out shoot out. Seriously. The father acted properly. The criminals did not.


Where in the article were either the robbers or the daughter described as being dogs?
 
2014-06-12 09:05:28 AM

Elliot8654: phenn: Dimensio: soporific: Dimensio: Elliot8654: Yay! Instead of anyone getting a fair trial or actually figuring out what caused this or how to make it better, we just kill people!

I am pleased that I am not the only person who recognize that killing someone who is allegedly threatening the life of a family member denies that person due process and a fair trial.

Again I ask, what should the father have done? What, in your view, is the correct action to take in this situation?

Since you believe that what he did was wrong, what was the right choice?

Contact law enforcement. The duty of police is to protect citizens.

If they had done that, I can almost guarantee you that girl would be dead right now. The second LE shows up, it would have gone from home invasion to all-out shoot out. Seriously. The father acted properly. The criminals did not.

Um, dad made it a shootout.
He just, like Han, shot first.


It's not a shootout if the other party doesn't fire back.
 
2014-06-12 09:05:52 AM

Elliot8654: Um, dad made it a shootout.
He just, like Han, shot first.


Not at all. He diffused the situation. He put a stop to it.
 
2014-06-12 09:06:54 AM
Considering how screwed up society is. I was expecting the father to be arrested for murder, and the daughter to be brought up on charges of being an accessory.
 
2014-06-12 09:06:59 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Call Liam Neeson?


Why?  It sounds like dad was quite capable of handling the situation.

One bad guy dead, another bad guy shot, daughter unhurt.

That's some seriously fine shooting.

TheGregiss: Yeah! Why mass shootings are so rare and incidents like in the article are the norm!


Civilians using firearms to protect themselves are far more common than mass shootings.  They just don't get round the clock, live from the scene media coverage.
 
2014-06-12 09:07:11 AM

Dimensio: Elliot8654: Yay! Instead of anyone getting a fair trial or actually figuring out what caused this or how to make it better, we just kill people!

I am pleased that I am not the only person who recognize that killing someone who is allegedly threatening the life of a family member denies that person due process and a fair trial.


Dimensio, I generally enjoy your posts but this is plain old stupid.

Do you really think the type of behavior on the aggressors part was A-OK?  Did you read that one of the perps was on trial for murder but charges were dismissed because of witness intimidation?   Some people are not entitled to the courtesy of "their day in court" when they choose to exhibit such behavior.

Sometimes, what has to be done in the moment gets done in the moment.  Did you read that the parents of the girl were not charged with any crime?  What does that tell you?
 
2014-06-12 09:08:35 AM

Cold_Sassy: Dimensio: Elliot8654: Yay! Instead of anyone getting a fair trial or actually figuring out what caused this or how to make it better, we just kill people!

I am pleased that I am not the only person who recognize that killing someone who is allegedly threatening the life of a family member denies that person due process and a fair trial.

Dimensio, I generally enjoy your posts but this is plain old stupid.

Do you really think the type of behavior on the aggressors part was A-OK?  Did you read that one of the perps was on trial for murder but charges were dismissed because of witness intimidation?   Some people are not entitled to the courtesy of "their day in court" when they choose to exhibit such behavior.

Sometimes, what has to be done in the moment gets done in the moment.  Did you read that the parents of the girl were not charged with any crime?  What does that tell you?


He's been sarcastitrolling all morning. You just bit, as did I yesterday. Haha
 
2014-06-12 09:08:42 AM
FTFH: Father shoots dead armed robbers using his teenage daughter as human shield during home invasion

So, the father is shooting armed robbers who are already dead, while using his teenage daughter as a human shield while he is conducting a home invasion?

/someone got paid to write that headline.
 
2014-06-12 09:08:44 AM

Cold_Sassy: Dimensio: Elliot8654: Yay! Instead of anyone getting a fair trial or actually figuring out what caused this or how to make it better, we just kill people!

I am pleased that I am not the only person who recognize that killing someone who is allegedly threatening the life of a family member denies that person due process and a fair trial.

Dimensio, I generally enjoy your posts but this is plain old stupid.

Do you really think the type of behavior on the aggressors part was A-OK?  Did you read that one of the perps was on trial for murder but charges were dismissed because of witness intimidation?   Some people are not entitled to the courtesy of "their day in court" when they choose to exhibit such behavior.

Sometimes, what has to be done in the moment gets done in the moment.  Did you read that the parents of the girl were not charged with any crime?  What does that tell you?


"Some people are not entitled to their day in court"?

So you don't believe in all the amendments in the bill of rights, just the 2nd?
 
2014-06-12 09:09:47 AM

stirfrybry: white knighting for thugs who took a hostage. You farkers are unreal


You need to search for posts by Dimensio.  You've seriously misread him.

/He's very skilled.  So much so that only the highest quality sarcasm meters work.
 
2014-06-12 09:10:01 AM

starsrift: phenn: Desperate hoodlums don't have the money to purchase illegal firearms [your emphasis]

Tell me you're kidding.

When you can't buy guns, where do bad guys get guns from?
How many robberies - home or storefront - are performed without guns even in the USA?
Sure, organized crime has access to firearms, but they also have access to grenades and other things. So no, I'm not kidding.

I notice you were unable to answer my question of whether or not this was responsible gun use. I can only assume that means that you agree that this is NOT responsible gun use, and hence, as I originally stated, a fantasy for 'gun nuts', though perhaps you disagree with my scatological descriptor of 'masturbatory'. Please enjoy the quibble, but I'm glad we agree.



First off, your scenario is based on many assumptions provided by TFA and you. In that situation you can't give the intruder the benefit of the doubt, or just assume he doesn't want to hurt anyone, most people can't even tell when their being lied to in a normal situation.The end result is his daughter is unharmed, and the bad guy who chose to put everyone's lives in danger, including his own, is dead. And the other criminal is shot and in custody (who was released on murder charges last Jan). The father was a crack-shot perhaps with some training, if not a good bit of practice. The mother obviously didn't help atleast given the details.

What makes you think the firearms the criminals were using weren't illegal? You can outlaw guns like drugs, criminals will still get them. They don't recognize any laws imposed on them. How you gonna be a tru G if you ain't got no gat? If you're anybody in a street gang you got a gun. The hip hop culture idolizes guns, and the gang violence associated with it seems to be the prime source of gun violence. A weekend in Detroit can trump a mass shooting.
This also makes an example out of the criminal to other would be criminals...don't mess with an innocent guys family or house, your ass may get shot and killed.

I'd be ok if we could magically make all guns vanish, but if you make all guns illegal tomorrow, you are only disarming everyone except dangerous white militia groups and black gangs who do not recognize gun laws imposed on them.
 
2014-06-12 09:11:41 AM

Elliot8654: Son of Thunder: Elliot8654:
Your study has a range of 6x it's base study value, and has methodology which, if I had used anything like that for my masters thesis, would have gotten my research shot down like a ww2 fighter plane.

Specifics. Seeing as how you're such a better researcher than the National Research Council, I'm sure you can do much better than "Because I say so and it's all an NRA conspiracy".

I hope you understand, this subject is practically impossible to objectively study, for several reasons:

1) the nra has lobbied to add major roadblocks and outright prevent research into this matter.
2) There is no way to measure effective "deterrence" by firearm, where someone decides not to commit a crime due to the potential of a firearm.
3) events can only occur once in the real world, making trials of "would a gun be more or less beneficial" impossible, as a retrial of events can not happen.


So you don't actually see any specific methodological flaws, you just reject the entire approach because criminological research is hard.

You must have specialized in the kind of economics that don't involve looking at actual human behavior.
 
2014-06-12 09:12:29 AM

Dimensio: Dimensio: 

Contact law enforcement. The duty of police is to protect citizens.


Not at all.  http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html?_r=0
 
2014-06-12 09:12:54 AM

Elliot8654: Cold_Sassy: Dimensio: Elliot8654: Yay! Instead of anyone getting a fair trial or actually figuring out what caused this or how to make it better, we just kill people!

I am pleased that I am not the only person who recognize that killing someone who is allegedly threatening the life of a family member denies that person due process and a fair trial.

Dimensio, I generally enjoy your posts but this is plain old stupid.

Do you really think the type of behavior on the aggressors part was A-OK?  Did you read that one of the perps was on trial for murder but charges were dismissed because of witness intimidation?   Some people are not entitled to the courtesy of "their day in court" when they choose to exhibit such behavior.

Sometimes, what has to be done in the moment gets done in the moment.  Did you read that the parents of the girl were not charged with any crime?  What does that tell you?

"Some people are not entitled to their day in court"?

So you don't believe in all the amendments in the bill of rights, just the 2nd?


The burglars/hostage takers made their own bed.

Had they ceased life threatening action earlier, they would've got their day in court.

So yeah, I agree with the other poster too.
 
2014-06-12 09:13:27 AM
www.texasfred.net
 
2014-06-12 09:14:27 AM

Elliot8654: Cold_Sassy: Dimensio: Elliot8654: Yay! Instead of anyone getting a fair trial or actually figuring out what caused this or how to make it better, we just kill people!

I am pleased that I am not the only person who recognize that killing someone who is allegedly threatening the life of a family member denies that person due process and a fair trial.

Dimensio, I generally enjoy your posts but this is plain old stupid.

Do you really think the type of behavior on the aggressors part was A-OK?  Did you read that one of the perps was on trial for murder but charges were dismissed because of witness intimidation?   Some people are not entitled to the courtesy of "their day in court" when they choose to exhibit such behavior.

Sometimes, what has to be done in the moment gets done in the moment.  Did you read that the parents of the girl were not charged with any crime?  What does that tell you?

"Some people are not entitled to their day in court"?

So you don't believe in all the amendments in the bill of rights, just the 2nd?


You got it, pal.  In this situation they didn't have any rights, except to a punishment that was neither cruel or unusual.  They really deserved worse.  But keep on trollin' by all means.
 
2014-06-12 09:15:50 AM

Elliot8654: "Some people are not entitled to their day in court"?

So you don't believe in all the amendments in the bill of rights, just the 2nd?


the amendments are restrictions on government power they aren't restrictions on an individual protecting his family from a home invasion.
 
2014-06-12 09:16:35 AM

lenfromak: Dimensio: Dimensio: 

Contact law enforcement. The duty of police is to protect citizens.

Not at all.  http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html?_r=0


BOOM!
 
2014-06-12 09:17:41 AM

Livingroom: quickly try to decide what to kill them with, my AR15 pistol with EoTech, my AR15 rifle with ACOG, or my H&K91 with Fero Z-24 scope. or, go hardcore and use one of my glocks. either way, i'm going suppressed so i dont hurt my daughter's hearing!


That's the problem
Too many decisions to make
Katana
 
2014-06-12 09:17:41 AM

Brick-House:


And the dead good guy who went back into the wal mart and got himself killed?

Or the fort hood shooter who was surrounded by good guy?

How do I tell who is a good guy with a gun and who is a bad guy with a gun before the shooting begins?
 
2014-06-12 09:18:25 AM

Headso: Elliot8654: "Some people are not entitled to their day in court"?

So you don't believe in all the amendments in the bill of rights, just the 2nd?

the amendments are restrictions on government power they aren't restrictions on an individual protecting his family from a home invasion.


Which is funny because people like him would be the first to point that out when it comes to duck dynasty/A&E or similar situations.
 
2014-06-12 09:18:39 AM

Headso: Elliot8654: "Some people are not entitled to their day in court"?

So you don't believe in all the amendments in the bill of rights, just the 2nd?

the amendments are restrictions on government power they aren't restrictions on an individual protecting his family from a home invasion.


No. They are ensuring our rights, like the right to a speedy trial for all citizens.
 
2014-06-12 09:19:29 AM
 
2014-06-12 09:19:54 AM

lenfromak: Dimensio: Dimensio:
Contact law enforcement. The duty of police is to protect citizens.

Not at all.  http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html?_r=0


That they are not accountable in any way in their duty to protect members of the public does not mean that protection of members of the public is not one of their job duties.

/This is not a strawman misrepresentation. Another Farker actually presented that argument, and was serious.
 
2014-06-12 09:20:20 AM

Elliot8654: Headso: Elliot8654: "Some people are not entitled to their day in court"?

So you don't believe in all the amendments in the bill of rights, just the 2nd?

the amendments are restrictions on government power they aren't restrictions on an individual protecting his family from a home invasion.

No. They are ensuring our rights, like the right to a speedy trial for all citizens.


I'd say these two geniuses got a speedy trial by fire, wouldn't you?
 
2014-06-12 09:20:29 AM

Elliot8654: Cold_Sassy: Dimensio: Elliot8654: Yay! Instead of anyone getting a fair trial or actually figuring out what caused this or how to make it better, we just kill people!

I am pleased that I am not the only person who recognize that killing someone who is allegedly threatening the life of a family member denies that person due process and a fair trial.

Dimensio, I generally enjoy your posts but this is plain old stupid.

Do you really think the type of behavior on the aggressors part was A-OK?  Did you read that one of the perps was on trial for murder but charges were dismissed because of witness intimidation?   Some people are not entitled to the courtesy of "their day in court" when they choose to exhibit such behavior.

Sometimes, what has to be done in the moment gets done in the moment.  Did you read that the parents of the girl were not charged with any crime?  What does that tell you?

"Some people are not entitled to their day in court"?

So you don't believe in all the amendments in the bill of rights, just the 2nd?


If someone is captured alive by law enforcement, they are have the right to a trial.  The constutition doesn't guarantee you the right to live through a gunfight when you invade someones home with a weapon.

You seem to think that the criminals right to a trial is supposed to supercede the right of self defense. It doesn't, hence why no charges were files against the father.
 
2014-06-12 09:21:03 AM
I couldn't finish reading the article over the sounds of the NRA board of directors orgasming.  I'm sure they'll want to change the focus from mass shootings to this success story.
 
2014-06-12 09:21:06 AM

JustGetItRight: Elliot8654: If you have an elderly woman who can't raise a knife, how is she supposed to use a firearm properly? It would break her wrist first.

Have you ever fired a gun?

http://gunsnfreedom.com/72-year-old-woman-shoots-intruder-who-was-be at ing-her-friend-with-a-bat/
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2011/10/22/very-afraid-66-year-old-w om an-shoots-and-kills-home-intruder/
http://easybakegunclub.com/news/1023/63-year-old-woman-shoots-and-ki ll s-armed-intruder-.html#.U5mokihNx_E
http://abc7news.com/archive/7995072/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=775HZwognE0
http://thetandd.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/elderly-woman-awaken s- to-find-intruder-shoots-at-him/article_d43aef04-2a25-11e3-ad97-001a4bc f887a.html

First page of a google search.  Six examples, aged 63-85.  All managed it just fine.


Yep, in a gun range under controlled circumstances with all the time they need.

Look at the accuracy rate of trained officers under stress. Tell me a random senior citizen under threat could do better.
 
2014-06-12 09:22:05 AM

JustGetItRight: Elliot8654: If you have an elderly woman who can't raise a knife, how is she supposed to use a firearm properly? It would break her wrist first.

Have you ever fired a gun?

http://gunsnfreedom.com/72-year-old-woman-shoots-intruder-who-was-be at ing-her-friend-with-a-bat/
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2011/10/22/very-afraid-66-year-old-w om an-shoots-and-kills-home-intruder/
http://easybakegunclub.com/news/1023/63-year-old-woman-shoots-and-ki ll s-armed-intruder-.html#.U5mokihNx_E
http://abc7news.com/archive/7995072/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=775HZwognE0
http://thetandd.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/elderly-woman-awaken s- to-find-intruder-shoots-at-him/article_d43aef04-2a25-11e3-ad97-001a4bc f887a.html

First page of a google search.  Six examples, aged 63-85.  All managed it just fine.


My 74-year old mother is rather skippy with a .308 and a 1911. At least when it comes to killing paper, that is.
 
2014-06-12 09:22:29 AM

sbchamp: Livingroom: quickly try to decide what to kill them with, my AR15 pistol with EoTech, my AR15 rifle with ACOG, or my H&K91 with Fero Z-24 scope. or, go hardcore and use one of my glocks. either way, i'm going suppressed so i dont hurt my daughter's hearing!

That's the problem
Too many decisions to make
Katana


Of the four firearms that I own, I own a silencer for only one of them, thus making my decision simple:
I would hold fire; I have no children, nor am I even married, thus having my "daughter" held hostage would be indication of some form of psychosis.
 
2014-06-12 09:22:41 AM

Dimensio: Spanky McStupid: Dimensio: Evidently the father referenced in the article decided to appoint himself judge, jury and executioner.

Not quite up to "hurr-durr" standards.  4/10

I have a cold and I was awake later than I should have been at the time.


You did fine.  Snagged at least a half dozen in just  a few minutes.
 
2014-06-12 09:23:35 AM

Elliot8654: Headso: Elliot8654: "Some people are not entitled to their day in court"?

So you don't believe in all the amendments in the bill of rights, just the 2nd?

the amendments are restrictions on government power they aren't restrictions on an individual protecting his family from a home invasion.

No. They are ensuring our rights, like the right to a speedy trial for all citizens.


They ensure the government can't legislate them away.... "congress shall make no law'... "shall not be infringed" .... are examples of the type of verbiage in the amendments.
 
2014-06-12 09:23:43 AM

trevzie: Elliot8654: Cold_Sassy: Dimensio: Elliot8654: Yay! Instead of anyone getting a fair trial or actually figuring out what caused this or how to make it better, we just kill people!

I am pleased that I am not the only person who recognize that killing someone who is allegedly threatening the life of a family member denies that person due process and a fair trial.

Dimensio, I generally enjoy your posts but this is plain old stupid.

Do you really think the type of behavior on the aggressors part was A-OK?  Did you read that one of the perps was on trial for murder but charges were dismissed because of witness intimidation?   Some people are not entitled to the courtesy of "their day in court" when they choose to exhibit such behavior.

Sometimes, what has to be done in the moment gets done in the moment.  Did you read that the parents of the girl were not charged with any crime?  What does that tell you?

"Some people are not entitled to their day in court"?

So you don't believe in all the amendments in the bill of rights, just the 2nd?

If someone is captured alive by law enforcement, they are have the right to a trial.  The constutition doesn't guarantee you the right to live through a gunfight when you invade someones home with a weapon.

You seem to think that the criminals right to a trial is supposed to supercede the right of self defense. It doesn't, hence why no charges were files against the father.


Ya know what? Fine.
I think I need to move back to England.
I find it absolutely amazing that this country is so absolutely gung ho for bring able to shoot other people.

Even if America did license and control guns, from the sounds of it you would just invent new ways to kill each other.
 
2014-06-12 09:24:37 AM

Elliot8654: Ya know what? Fine.
I think I need to move back to England.
I find it absolutely amazing that this country is so absolutely gung ho for bring able to shoot other people.


You would certainly be safer in England, if your profession is armed robbery.
 
2014-06-12 09:26:59 AM

Dimensio: Evidently the father referenced in the article decided to appoint himself judge, jury and executioner.


And you have a problem with this? I know whose house I'm coming to when I want to steal some shiat. YOURS MOTHERFARKER!
 
2014-06-12 09:27:16 AM

Elliot8654: trevzie: Elliot8654: Cold_Sassy: Dimensio: Elliot8654: Yay! Instead of anyone getting a fair trial or actually figuring out what caused this or how to make it better, we just kill people!

I am pleased that I am not the only person who recognize that killing someone who is allegedly threatening the life of a family member denies that person due process and a fair trial.

Dimensio, I generally enjoy your posts but this is plain old stupid.

Do you really think the type of behavior on the aggressors part was A-OK?  Did you read that one of the perps was on trial for murder but charges were dismissed because of witness intimidation?   Some people are not entitled to the courtesy of "their day in court" when they choose to exhibit such behavior.

Sometimes, what has to be done in the moment gets done in the moment.  Did you read that the parents of the girl were not charged with any crime?  What does that tell you?

"Some people are not entitled to their day in court"?

So you don't believe in all the amendments in the bill of rights, just the 2nd?

If someone is captured alive by law enforcement, they are have the right to a trial.  The constutition doesn't guarantee you the right to live through a gunfight when you invade someones home with a weapon.

You seem to think that the criminals right to a trial is supposed to supercede the right of self defense. It doesn't, hence why no charges were files against the father.

Ya know what? Fine.
I think I need to move back to England.
I find it absolutely amazing that this country is so absolutely gung ho for bring able to shoot other people.

Even if America did license and control guns, from the sounds of it you would just invent new ways to kill each other.


Good.

I don't want people living here who think the rights of others to a fair trial supersedes my right to defend myself or family.

In the good ole USA, actions have consequences. Don't want to die? You can start by not being a shiatty person to begin with and don't threaten the lives of others. It's simple, really.
 
2014-06-12 09:28:07 AM

Elliot8654: I think I need to move back to England.


shiningrocksoftware.com
 
2014-06-12 09:28:09 AM

Dimensio: Elliot8654: Ya know what? Fine.
I think I need to move back to England.
I find it absolutely amazing that this country is so absolutely gung ho for bring able to shoot other people.

You would certainly be safer in England, if your profession is armed robbery.


How do you not understand this? If someone steals something, they can be arrested and return it. If they break something, you can make them pay for it.

Killing people isn't something we can fix or undo. It's basic.

I get the need to defend yourself. I do. But America is the only country who subscribes to "peace through superior firepower" in its own city streets.
 
2014-06-12 09:30:10 AM

Click Click D'oh: Elliot8654: I think I need to move back to England.


Go look up all factors of societal health, and tell me America is still the best country ever.

The only "freedom" you have that the rest of the world doesn't is its so much easier to get a gun. Go look up what other countries have. Check out Germany.
 
2014-06-12 09:31:31 AM

Elliot8654: How do you not understand this? If someone steals something, they can be arrested and return it. If they break something, you can make them pay for it.

Killing people isn't something we can fix or undo. It's basic.

I get the need to defend yourself. I do. But America is the only country who subscribes to "peace through superior firepower" in its own city streets.


How do YOU not get it? Someone had this man's daughter and was holding a gun to her farking head! It probably had zero to do with killing the dude (mentally) and EVERYTHING to do with saving her life.

Jebus.
 
2014-06-12 09:32:36 AM

Elliot8654: trevzie: Elliot8654: Cold_Sassy: Dimensio: Elliot8654: Yay! Instead of anyone getting a fair trial or actually figuring out what caused this or how to make it better, we just kill people!

I am pleased that I am not the only person who recognize that killing someone who is allegedly threatening the life of a family member denies that person due process and a fair trial.

Dimensio, I generally enjoy your posts but this is plain old stupid.

Do you really think the type of behavior on the aggressors part was A-OK?  Did you read that one of the perps was on trial for murder but charges were dismissed because of witness intimidation?   Some people are not entitled to the courtesy of "their day in court" when they choose to exhibit such behavior.

Sometimes, what has to be done in the moment gets done in the moment.  Did you read that the parents of the girl were not charged with any crime?  What does that tell you?

"Some people are not entitled to their day in court"?

So you don't believe in all the amendments in the bill of rights, just the 2nd?

If someone is captured alive by law enforcement, they are have the right to a trial.  The constutition doesn't guarantee you the right to live through a gunfight when you invade someones home with a weapon.

You seem to think that the criminals right to a trial is supposed to supercede the right of self defense. It doesn't, hence why no charges were files against the father.

Ya know what? Fine.
I think I need to move back to England.
I find it absolutely amazing that this country is so absolutely gung ho for bring able to shoot other people.

Even if America did license and control guns, from the sounds of it you would just invent new ways to kill each other.


It's a good deterrent to home invasion, when you can legally be killed for it. I don't have a problem with it.  If the criminals have a problem with it, they might want to choose a different type of crime.
 
2014-06-12 09:33:35 AM

Elliot8654: Look at the accuracy rate of trained officers under stress. Tell me a random senior citizen under threat could do better.


Actually, civilians (of all ages) do seem to do a better job of choosing to engage a bad guy that a lot of LE.

It is very, very hard to find cases where a civilian using a weapon to resist crime shoots an innocent bystander (I know of on in Texas, but no others).  It is, unfortunately, pretty easy to find examples of LE doing so.

I honestly don't know why.  It is probably a combination of civilians being more cautious when choosing to use their weapons (know they're not trained, no duty to act, fear of injury/lawsuit) and the fact that while a LEO might be trained and confident, depending on the state, he might only have to qualify once or twice a year and not get much range time unless he does it while off duty whereas many gun owners shoot far more often.
 
2014-06-12 09:33:49 AM

phenn: Elliot8654: How do you not understand this? If someone steals something, they can be arrested and return it. If they break something, you can make them pay for it.

Killing people isn't something we can fix or undo. It's basic.

I get the need to defend yourself. I do. But America is the only country who subscribes to "peace through superior firepower" in its own city streets.

How do YOU not get it? Someone had this man's daughter and was holding a gun to her farking head! It probably had zero to do with killing the dude (mentally) and EVERYTHING to do with saving her life.

Jebus.


I get it. I get it. Defend your daughter.
It's the whole societal love affair with guns and power.

This one case isn't the point. What happens when the guys who break in are armored and with ak47's? Then your average family will be stocking anti tank rounds.

It's a big dumb escalation that is happening almost nowhere else in the world.
 
2014-06-12 09:35:30 AM
I consider myself liberal, but it really pisses me off when other libs say the father should have called 911.

You have 2 choices in that situation: die, or shoot the piece of garbage.

There's nothing else. No intermediate step.

Proper gun control shown by mom and dad.

/never fired a gun
 
2014-06-12 09:35:33 AM

Elliot8654: ....tell me America is still the best country ever.


Do you have this in merry 'ol England?

4.bp.blogspot.com

Thought not.

So...

sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk
 
2014-06-12 09:35:52 AM

Witness99: Clearly, the right thing to do in a situation like this is to lock the door and call 911. When they break in, you call a "time out" because it's going to take the police 15 minutes to get there. You say calm down everybody, you don't want to do anything you would regret. Let's take a breather, have a beer and allow cooler heads to prevail. Also, would you mind leaving your firearms outside as this is a gun free zone (point to the sign to validate your claim).

This way, nobody gets killed, raped, hurt or robbed. You've done the civil thing rather than arrogantly appointing yourself judge, jury and executioner. And you've taught those two young men a lesson in manners, which they will need to legitimately attract the affections of those like your daughter.


That was beautiful.

Thank you.
 
2014-06-12 09:38:00 AM

skozlaw: Oh, look. A jerkoff thread for all the wannabe he-men who sit around beating off to the thought of getting in a gunfight in their front yard.



Go get 'em you mighty heroes of the jizz-stained keyboard.


"Have you taken the picture? TAKE THE GODDAMN PICTURE."
 
2014-06-12 09:38:18 AM

Click Click D'oh: Elliot8654: ....tell me America is still the best country ever.

Do you have this in merry 'ol England?



Thought not.

So...


You don't have it here either.

What America seems to have in abundance is delusion.
 
2014-06-12 09:39:31 AM

mdeesnuts: WraithSama: But seriously, though, if I were in that situation, I would never have enough confidence in my aim to shoot at a target who is using my child as a shield

Spend the $150-200 on a laser and get to the range once a month. Drink 3 Five Hour Energys 20 minutes before you hit the range to simulate the adrinaline rush.

http://www.crimsontracelaser.com/

/but holy shiat, I can't imagine pulling the trigger either


I like Pat Mcnamaras training course.

He makes you run around and lift heavy things and throw them around before shooting so your arms are tired and you're breathing and heart rate is increased.
 
2014-06-12 09:43:03 AM

Elliot8654: Dimensio: Elliot8654: Ya know what? Fine.
I think I need to move back to England.
I find it absolutely amazing that this country is so absolutely gung ho for bring able to shoot other people.

You would certainly be safer in England, if your profession is armed robbery.

How do you not understand this? If someone steals something, they can be arrested and return it. If they break something, you can make them pay for it.

Killing people isn't something we can fix or undo. It's basic.

I get the need to defend yourself. I do. But America is the only country who subscribes to "peace through superior firepower" in its own city streets.


And in England you will likely spend time in prison for defending yourself.  fark that.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1461346/Five-years-in-prison-f o r-acting-in-self-defence.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munir_Hussain_and_victims'_rights

You can go back to your "utopia"
 
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