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(Gawker)   Sgt Bowe Bergdahl, who was first a missing American hero, then AWOL, then a peaceful man trying help Afghans who got caught, then a traitorous deserter Muslim, is now a Randian objectivist who was mentally unfit to serve in the first place   (gawker.com) divider line 61
    More: Weird, Bowe Bergdahl, Atlas Shrugged, conservative media, Taliban  
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2002 clicks; posted to Politics » on 11 Jun 2014 at 4:02 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2014-06-11 12:43:19 PM  
13 votes:
All these "revelations" that come and go seem to have conspired to make me feel the exact same way:
1. We as a country get our POWs back and sometimes that takes an unpleasant prisoner swap
2. If he's got personal, legal or professional problems, the solution to them didn't involve leaving him with the Haqqani Network.

Simple as that.
2014-06-11 01:25:41 PM  
7 votes:
Yeah, sorry, I refuse to engage in any of this "Real American" bullsh*t. No Americans are "realer" than other Americans and therefore more deserving of services and aid from our government. The very idea that some people think this is appalling.
2014-06-11 01:28:27 PM  
5 votes:
Seeing as how this is based on stuff that he actually allegedly wrote, it would seem a bit more credible. But Rand may not have been his only influence, and he's still unable to make any statements or respond to critics, so perhaps its still best to leave him the hell alone until he's out of the farking hospital. Doesn't change the fact that the exchange was a good thing.
2014-06-11 04:14:49 PM  
4 votes:
Sometimes I wish I could see into a parallel universe, just to see what the outrage would have been if the headlines were "The only confirmed POW, Sgt. Bergdahl, has been labeled a deserter, despite not having enough evidence to charge him for the last five years, and will be left in Afganistan as the military pulls out their forces."
2014-06-11 02:59:56 PM  
4 votes:

dittybopper: I'm withholding judgement, because I think there is too much that we really don't know at this point about the events of the day that he was captured, and what he was thinking at the time.


This implies that the he might not have been deserving of rescue, or that the cost of his freedom depends on his personality. Both of those things are things I would protest.

It's one thing to argue that the price was too high. We certainly would not have traded him for a nuclear weapon, and we absolutely would have traded him for a piece of Bazooka bubble gum, so where in the middle you draw the line is one of policy that is certainly debatable.

What I don't believe is debatable is whether the price is freedom should somehow be dependent on how deserving he is. Freedom from capture is not something one should deserve, it's something the government owes it's citizens. So whether the five prisoners for him was a worthwhile trade is arguable (I think yes), but it would be debatable regardless of who Bergdahl is, what his motivations were, or what happened that caused his capture. All of this claptrap about what he was thinking is, to my mind, completely irrelevant, and is just being used for people to justify being angry at Obama for something they would applaud from anyone else.
2014-06-11 02:13:41 PM  
4 votes:

dittybopper: And if any one of us is in a position to judge, McCain is, having been there.


Except that McCain supposedly OK'd the deal a couple of years ago when this was first set in motion, after speaking with then-Senator John Kerry. After the deal was done, he went two-faced and started the public outrage act.
2014-06-11 06:39:24 PM  
3 votes:

Noam Chimpsky:  got several of his platoon killed trying to find him.


Stop vomiting this debunked lie.
2014-06-11 04:27:00 PM  
3 votes:
Who farking cares. He's an American being held by the Taliban. He needed to be brought home. I'm glad the trade was made. Now WE can deal with him one way or another.
2014-06-11 04:15:11 PM  
3 votes:

21-7-b: "No, Mr. President, a soldier expressing horrid anti-American beliefs - even boldly putting them in writing and unabashedly firing off his messages while in uniform, just three days before he left his unit on foot - is not 'honorable service.' Unless that is your standard."

Ms Palin, you really are the most giving person on the planet


Because I really needed to hear what a woman who quit halfway through her job had to say about a deserter.
2014-06-11 02:25:39 PM  
3 votes:
For those that really dig into the right-wing sphere, and I guess the left-wing sphere as well... is there a perception that "the left" is hailing Bowe Bergdahl as a bona-fide hero or something?  I've not seen that.  That Obama had a Rose Garden speech with the Bergdahl parents has more to do with us getting our last POW back, but I didn't even hear that address so maybe accolades were issued that I've not heard of.

Because I'm not supporting getting Bergdahl back because he was or is a hero; I'm supporting getting him back because that's what we should do.
2014-06-11 01:58:15 PM  
3 votes:

factoryconnection: All these "revelations" that come and go seem to have conspired to make me feel the exact same way:
1. We as a country get our POWs back and sometimes that takes an unpleasant prisoner swap
2. If he's got personal, legal or professional problems, the solution to them didn't involve leaving him with the Haqqani Network.

Simple as that.


This is what even the right wing fellow veteran friends of mine don't get. We always have tried to get our POWs back. For John McCain to come out and decry this, when he was freed as part of a prisoner exchange laid out in farking writing in the Paris Peace Accord, is the height of either hypocrisy or being a pure douchenozzle. Or in his case maybe both at the same time.
2014-06-11 01:31:02 PM  
3 votes:

Somacandra: Seeing as how this is based on stuff that he actually allegedly wrote, it would seem a bit more credible.


That, and the fact that he wrote the Ayn Rand email just THREE DAYS before he left. It gives us insight into his frame of mind right before he disappeared, and his frame of mind was "Fark this shiat. Atlas Shrugged, biatches. I'm looking out for #1 from now on."
2014-06-11 01:15:14 PM  
3 votes:

21-7-b: "No, Mr. President, a soldier expressing horrid anti-American beliefs - even boldly putting them in writing and unabashedly firing off his messages while in uniform, just three days before he left his unit on foot - is not 'honorable service.' Unless that is your standard."

Ms Palin, you really are the most giving person on the planet


Didn't her son only go into the Army under the "Enlist or Go to Jail" option?

/Yes, I know that that no longer "officially" happens.
2014-06-11 06:25:49 PM  
2 votes:
Remember when we drone struck that American turned Al Qaeda supporter and pretty much every R said that was the worst thing since Hitler? They said we should have gone in and arrested that man and put him up for trial instead of just killing him.

The same people are saying that we shouldn't have done a prisoner swap even if it means we can bring him home and put him on trial if he had done some kind of wrong doing. They would have rather have him stay in jail. 

These people make my head spin faster than a spectator at a tennis match.
2014-06-11 04:09:06 PM  
2 votes:

dittybopper: Somacandra: dittybopper: Even though we really don't know much solid about the Bergdahl case yet, we know enough to realize that there is a fundamental difference between the two  situations.

If we don't yet know enough to state the facts regarding the loss/capture of Bergfart, then by definition we do not know enough to tell whether there is a fundamental difference.

Sure we do.  We do know one walked away from his post and spent at a minimum at least 5 hours, and quite likely more, wandering around the Afghan countryside.

TIMELINE: 0430z BLACKFOOT TOC REPORTS SOLDIER IS MISSING
...
UPDATE: 1012z GUARDRAIL REPORTS PICKED UP LLVI TRAFFIC AT GRID VB 6597 3366 THAT STATES (UIM INDICATES THAT AN AMERICAN SOLDIER IS TALKING AND IS LOOKING FOR SOMEONE WHO SPEAKS ENGLISH. INDICATES AMERICAN SOLDIER HAS CAMERA)

So he goes missing sometime before 0430 Zulu time, and at 1012 Zulu a Guardrail aircraft reports "low level voice intercept" traffic about an American soldier who is walking around with a camera and looking for someone who speaks English.

This is a Guardrail RC-12 aircraft:

[dev.defense-update.com image 520x347]

It's specifically designed to intercept communications at a tactical level.  I have friends that have flown them (including missions in Iraq and Afghanistan).


Or it mean they've *captured* someone who is now asking to speak with someone who speaks english.

Why on earth is that not a possibility?
2014-06-11 03:14:56 PM  
2 votes:

nmrsnr: dittybopper: I'm withholding judgement, because I think there is too much that we really don't know at this point about the events of the day that he was captured, and what he was thinking at the time.

This implies that the he might not have been deserving of rescue, or that the cost of his freedom depends on his personality. Both of those things are things I would protest.

It's one thing to argue that the price was too high. We certainly would not have traded him for a nuclear weapon, and we absolutely would have traded him for a piece of Bazooka bubble gum, so where in the middle you draw the line is one of policy that is certainly debatable.

What I don't believe is debatable is whether the price is freedom should somehow be dependent on how deserving he is. Freedom from capture is not something one should deserve, it's something the government owes it's citizens. So whether the five prisoners for him was a worthwhile trade is arguable (I think yes), but it would be debatable regardless of who Bergdahl is, what his motivations were, or what happened that caused his capture. All of this claptrap about what he was thinking is, to my mind, completely irrelevant, and is just being used for people to justify being angry at Obama for something they would applaud from anyone else.


I think regeardless, getting him back was the right thing to do.

I also think that if there is substance to the charges we've been hearing in the press, that he deserves a court martial so he can get his due process. I think it's absolutely awful that he's getting this trial in the press because some people don't like Obama.
2014-06-11 02:48:45 PM  
2 votes:

dittybopper: Lionel Mandrake: Without making the exchange, we would never know.  If you want answers to those questions, the exchange is necessary.

That's not necessarily true.  Just because *WE* don't know, that doesn't mean that the information isn't out there.  I'm sure the NSA has been vacuuming up every communication it possibly could relating to Bergdahl.  We got to see some summaries of that sort of thing in the Wikileaks document about his capture, but that almost certainly isn't the sum total.

Plus, we don't know what the initial military investigation found.  Often it's best to interview people immediately after the events in question.  We don't know if he left a note or not.

That's all stuff that "we", meaning the Farkers discussing it here and now, don't know, but that's not necessarily stuff that "We", in the context of the United States, don't know.

But in the end, your argument sounds suspiciously like "we have to pass it to find out what's in it".  Maybe it was a good deal.  Maybe it wasn't.  But if you're going to ask me to buy a pig in a poke, you have to have some pretty compelling evidence that it's a Wilbur-level of porcine pulchritude.

Right now, neither you nor I have that.


I have enough evidence to say it was good to make the exchange.

If he is found to be a deserter and even a traitor, I will support punishing him,  Severely.  But I will still support having made the deal

Some people will disagree, of course, but I do not believe it is even possible that any further information would have the ability to cause me to change my mind and force me to conclude "we should have left him there"
2014-06-11 02:40:12 PM  
2 votes:

factoryconnection: is there a perception that "the left" is hailing Bowe Bergdahl as a bona-fide hero or something?


It certainly looks that way. But remember, this is a political ideology that views being "neutral" as the diametric opposite of its own positions. For example, being secular - government neutrality on and non-involvement in religious matters - is to them anti-religion. So if you challenge any aspect of their narrative, whether a fact or an opinion, then you are de facto taking the diametrically opposed opinion.

Bergdahl hasn't been proven to be a deserter? Oh, well, then I guess you think he's a hero! These Taliban guys weren't hardcore, inveterate killers, but politicians or bureaucrats who may have been involved in decision-making that led to people being killed? Oh, well then I guess you'd be happy to hang out with them in Qatar for a few weeks!
2014-06-11 02:20:15 PM  
2 votes:

dittybopper: There is a difference between the two:


No, they were both American POWs. Until they return home and answer for their actions before and during captivity, there is no difference between any POWs.
2014-06-11 01:49:46 PM  
2 votes:

Three Crooked Squirrels: Sgt Otter: 21-7-b: "No, Mr. President, a soldier expressing horrid anti-American beliefs - even boldly putting them in writing and unabashedly firing off his messages while in uniform, just three days before he left his unit on foot - is not 'honorable service.' Unless that is your standard."

Ms Palin, you really are the most giving person on the planet

Didn't her son only go into the Army under the "Enlist or Go to Jail" option?

/Yes, I know that that no longer "officially" happens.

Cite? Never heard that.


There was an incident of vandalism in the Wasilla school district, where the brake lines of a bunch of school buses were cut, as a "prank."  IIRC, there was four teens arrested.  Three 18 year old seniors, and one unnamed 17 year old minor.  The three seniors were Track's best friends and hockey teammates, and they were basically a joined-at-the-hip deal, so it widely assumed he was the "unnamed minor."  The damage was in the tens of thousands, so it wasn't waved off as "boys will be boys," even when your mom is the Governor.

I remember hearing about it around the election from a few Alaska farkers who said it was the worst kept secret in town.  I did some googling, and it only pops up on loony left-wing blogs.  Take it with a large grain of salt.
2014-06-11 01:06:09 PM  
2 votes:
Who the fark cares? Bring him back and try him if the facts warrant.
2014-06-11 12:36:30 PM  
2 votes:
Uh, well, this seems like it's based on more evidence than any other theory I've seen so far.
2014-06-12 08:30:22 AM  
1 votes:
Being a Randian is pretty much diagnostic for being crazy.

Of course, it's also diagnostic for being so stupid you have a brain disorder, which I guess is kind of crazy
2014-06-12 03:49:21 AM  
1 votes:

Irving Maimway: factoryconnection: All these "revelations" that come and go seem to have conspired to make me feel the exact same way:
1. We as a country get our POWs back and sometimes that takes an unpleasant prisoner swap
2. If he's got personal, legal or professional problems, the solution to them didn't involve leaving him with the Haqqani Network.

Simple as that.

This is what even the right wing fellow veteran friends of mine don't get. We always have tried to get our POWs back. For John McCain to come out and decry this, when he was freed as part of a prisoner exchange laid out in farking writing in the Paris Peace Accord, is the height of either hypocrisy or being a pure douchenozzle. Or in his case maybe both at the same time.


Being a modern Republican.
Obama is playing them like a bugle.  He's just managed to make the Republicans prove that they put politics first, and to decry beards.
2014-06-12 01:00:32 AM  
1 votes:
Really, at this point, if you're still taking the Republican Party position on this, you are a farking tool.

The Obama administration is sending a strong message that the war in Afghanistan is bullshiat, and we need to get out of there.

You're welcome to keep kissing hardliner ass by talking more shiat on this.

It's settled as far as reality is concerned.
2014-06-11 11:49:07 PM  
1 votes:

factoryconnection: All these "revelations" that come and go seem to have conspired to make me feel the exact same way:
1. We as a country get our POWs back and sometimes that takes an unpleasant prisoner swap
2. If he's got personal, legal or professional problems, the solution to them didn't involve leaving him with the Haqqani Network.

Simple as that.


You sanity and reasonable viewpoints fill me with the rage borne of a thousand suns.

// Has anyone looked this up?  Are there precedents wherein we turned our backs on one or more soldiers captured in a time of war and still living, because some loud mouthed cretins didn't like their fathers' grooming habits?  This is despicable, and I'm ashamed that these evil people hold so much sway in our country.
2014-06-11 11:38:51 PM  
1 votes:

clemarchives.files.wordpress.com

"Throughout the centuries there were men who took first steps down new roads armed with nothing but their own vision."


/Explains the whole leaving behind his weapon and NVGs thing.
2014-06-11 11:19:38 PM  
1 votes:

edmo: All I know is it could have been much worse for Obama. Imagine if FOXNews found out he hadn't tried to rescue the guy...


Obama should have learned long ago that the TeaTards like people who talk in tough but ultimately empty platitudes, but absolutely refuse to ever express any concrete policies or actions of any kind.

If he had loudly and boldly said ev "no-one will be left behind", and then just left him there, the Republican Tea Party would practically forget he wasn't one of them.
2014-06-11 09:45:03 PM  
1 votes:
I hope Congress' medical insurance covers severe whiplash:

On June 27 [2009], he sent an e-mail to his friends titled "Who is John Galt?," a reference to the hero of Ayn Rand's novel "Atlas Shrugged," about individualism in a dystopian America.
"I will serve no bandit, nor lair, for i know John Galt, and understand ..." Bergdahl wrote. "This life is too short to serve those who compromise value, and its ethics. i am done compromising."


What could possibly have happened in 2009 to the country and military of the United States that would make a Randian throw a fit and ragequit?
Might it be the same event that has other Randian-types in the federal government upset?

/"We must support our soldiers! Bring him home!"
//"You brought him home, Obama? But..he's a DESERTER and we hate him!"
///"Oh...maybe he deserted because he hates Obama, too? PATRIOT! Why did you wait so long to bring him back, Obama?!?!?"
////"And quit eating those dang crackers like you own the place!..."
2014-06-11 09:05:43 PM  
1 votes:
Conservatives sure do seem to like the idea of honoring soldiers in a very general sense, but when the rubber meets the road they are all party-over-honor and will throw any soldier under a bus, then back over him twice.
2014-06-11 08:23:25 PM  
1 votes:
Well that's no shock. This is why you wait until details come out before you scream how somebody is a traitor and needs to die.

Part of me thinks when Bergdahl has his say and more details come out republicans will go from "Impeach Obama for freeing this traitor." to "Obama didn't rescue our guy. It was a team of brave American heroes who rescued him. Obama had nothing to do with it."
2014-06-11 07:51:08 PM  
1 votes:
All I know is it could have been much worse for Obama. Imagine if FOXNews found out he hadn't tried to rescue the guy...
2014-06-11 07:24:20 PM  
1 votes:

Giltric: If someone breaks into prison, would you want the police to rescue them?


Why would the prison keep them? If they don't belong there, the prison isn't going to want them. Actually, I would imagine breaking into a prison is actually a crime (can't have people breaking in and delivering drugs or weapons to the inmates), so they'd probably get 'rescued' (arrested) by the police. After being tried, they might end up in prison anyway.

Did you have a point?
2014-06-11 06:43:02 PM  
1 votes:

Cyclometh: Noam Chimpsky:  got several of his platoon killed trying to find him.

Stop vomiting this debunked lie.


Dude, between him, giltric and SunsetLament, they have DEFINED the word troll. Pay them no mind - they've been paid too much already. They offer nothing.
2014-06-11 06:20:32 PM  
1 votes:
So wait, Rand isn't the shining light of Conservative ideology anymore? 

I am so confused.
2014-06-11 05:43:52 PM  
1 votes:

dittybopper: Somacandra: Doesn't change the fact that the exchange was a good thing.

That of course remains to be seen.


In the face of historical obstructionism, including the closing of Gitmo, Obama managed to reduce the amount of prisoners being held without charges, from other presidents, and get an American soldier back.

This is not a question anymore. If you question at all the return of an American soldier to American hands, you're wrong. It's only being debated because Obama.

/oh yeah, remember when Bush released over 500 of these same types of prisoners (not leaders, unless you like "leader of accounting" as a title) for nothing? Or the fact that most if not all of those prisoners will be released when we're done in Afghanistan?
2014-06-11 05:27:09 PM  
1 votes:

Giltric: If someone breaks into prison, would you want the police to rescue them?


The law would pretty much dictate that they have to.
2014-06-11 05:20:54 PM  
1 votes:

Saners: A black man is worth 2/5 of a person,


hey racist, a black man is worth 3/5ths of a person.
2014-06-11 05:11:43 PM  
1 votes:

Dog Welder: we can Predator Drone the five guys


In-N-Out fan?
2014-06-11 05:06:38 PM  
1 votes:
Dude gets back from a 6 year stay in hell and is welcomed backwith weeks of wall to coverage about what an asshole he is for no readily apparent reason.

fark everyone who participated in this. I hope you all get bone cancer.
2014-06-11 05:00:34 PM  
1 votes:

theknuckler_33: Who farking cares. He's an American being held by the Taliban. He needed to be brought home. I'm glad the trade was made. Now WE can deal with him one way or another.


And since they're no longer at Gitmo, we can Predator Drone the five guys we let go as soon as they step out of line. It's a win / win.
2014-06-11 04:53:46 PM  
1 votes:
Traitor. Nutjob. Hippy.

I'm beginning to think that this guy might actually just be unimaginably stupid.
Bf+
2014-06-11 04:44:54 PM  
1 votes:

Bane of Broone: Somacandra: Doctor Funkenstein: Diogenes: That dude wears more hats than N0bummer.

Indeed.  And there's only one way to approach this conundrum.  It's time to befart his name.   It's the only way to be sure.  Fartgent Blowe Buttdookhl!

Bergfart.

Not to be confused with

Fartghazi.

I can't stop giggling.

Tee hee



bunkstrutts.files.wordpress.com
Bf+
2014-06-11 04:40:57 PM  
1 votes:
Sooo... Row 6, Column 2?

img.fark.net

/Maybe our government shouldn't have interfered.
//So confused now...
2014-06-11 04:38:25 PM  
1 votes:

rohar: Somehow that's so much easier to see in retrospect when we've aged a bit huh? But this man speaks truth. We did what we did for 1 reason, to kill. A lot. Not for our own reasons. How is this Sgt. any less of a man than I am? I can assure you I had the same doubts that he did at one point. I simply didn't have the physical opportunity he did.

My honorable discharge will stand, his is being questioned. Why?


Because it is a convenient vehicle for them to attack the president with.

Seriously. That's the only reason they care.
2014-06-11 04:37:21 PM  
1 votes:
The details are irrelevant to whether or not he should be brought home.

You can't abandon a soldier and citizen to die in enemy hands based on nothing but allegations and without giving him a trial and a chance to defend himself.

If you can recover him by trading five individuals who can't/won't be brought to trial, so be it.


The frightening and disgusting revelation from this whole ordeal is that many on the Right seem passionate about the United States punishing people indefinitely, illegally, and without trial. They think that about Berhdahl, and they think that about the captives in Guantanamo.

That behavior is farking shameful.
2014-06-11 04:36:04 PM  
1 votes:

21-7-b: "No, Mr. President, a soldier expressing horrid anti-American beliefs - even boldly putting them in writing and unabashedly firing off his messages while in uniform, just three days before he left his unit on foot - is not 'honorable service.' Unless that is your standard."

Ms Palin, you really are the most giving person on the planet


She's a devout patriot just like her secessionist husband.
2014-06-11 04:26:42 PM  
1 votes:

BSABSVR: Bith Set Me Up: I thought Republicans loved Ayn Rand?

If Bergdahl really was a Randian, he will be right wing hero in 48 hours.


Only because it will take that long to spin the facts so that Obama is somehow still at fault.
2014-06-11 04:23:41 PM  
1 votes:

IlGreven: If they had any brains, they'd be CPTs, not PFCs.


In my experience, the CPTs and LTs were actually worse. Most of the enlisted guys were just young punks who hadn't really thought about anything seriously enough to have formed a cogent philosophy- but some had. The officers were far less likely to have done any self-examination. The older ones- who'd lasted a while and had some perspective, sure. Met a few really smart majors and colonels. But younger officers were just as bad as the rank and file.

I thought I was going to get court-martialed (well, not really but the guy was REALLY pissed) when I explained to the super-fundy Christian lieutenant, after having been harangued about God for most of a morning, about how I didn't understand how he could reconcile his religious belief in a peaceful and loving God who loved all people with the fact that he was in an organization of murderers.

I was afraid his head was going to pop when I pointed out that everything we did was done with the goal of being more efficient killers. We weren't in the business of peace, we were in the business of death, and we were VERY good at it. Training day in and day out to jump out of airplanes in any conditions, anywhere in the world, in 18 hours or less, loaded to kill anything we see. We were trained, efficient, and ruthless killers. We were paid, housed, fed and clothed in order to make sure we were always in peak murdering form.

He had never even thought about it.
2014-06-11 04:19:02 PM  
1 votes:
An Army official told the Post that the service had been aware of his prior military record before he enlisted. As the paper notes, that sort of a discharge usually precludes future military service.


Yeah, but they lowered the bar waaaaaay down to the ground to get bodies over to Iraq and Afghanistan when they figured out that it wasn't going to be a "cakewalk". It really doesn't surprise me that something like this happens. The only surprise is that it didn't happen earlier.
2014-06-11 04:16:28 PM  
1 votes:

Saners: Sometimes I wish I could see into a parallel universe, just to see what the outrage would have been if the headlines were "The only confirmed POW, Sgt. Bergdahl, has been labeled a deserter, despite not having enough evidence to charge him for the last five years, and will be left in Afganistan as the military pulls out their forces."


We were in that universe until he was released.
2014-06-11 04:15:18 PM  
1 votes:
I'm beginning to suspect that he might be a human being with flaws, some of which are serious.
2014-06-11 04:13:10 PM  
1 votes:

21-7-b: "No, Mr. President, a soldier expressing horrid anti-American beliefs - even boldly putting them in writing and unabashedly firing off his messages while in uniform, just three days before he left his unit on foot - is not 'honorable service.' Unless that is your standard."

Ms Palin, you really are the most giving person on the planet


"Todd and I are praying for Private First Class Bowe Bergdahl, his family, and all of his fellow soldiers who are putting their lives on the line to defend our freedom and protect democracy abroad," Governor Palin said. "The capture of Private Bergdahl and the bombings in Jakarta prove that we have not defeated terrorism, and that radical extremists will stop at nothing to attack Westerners and our ideals."

Seems like it was her standard in 2009...
2014-06-11 04:11:55 PM  
1 votes:
A young man steeped in a culture of violence and power who goes into his society's military had pro-objectivist ideas? Well, stop the farking presses.

Jesus, you people are stupid. Seriously, dangerously, stupid. If you cashiered everyone in the modern military who had some weird/stupid political ideas or was easily swayed into one political philosophy or another, you wouldn't have a military.

I speak from personal experience as a combat veteran of the 82nd Airborne. Trust me, you really don't want to know what ideology some 19 year old kid from Outer farkhole, Arkansas thinks is the right one. They're not hired for their political savvy, they're farking soliders.

I could tell you some stories about what passes for political thinking in the rank and file.
2014-06-11 03:41:18 PM  
1 votes:

dittybopper: As near was we can tell with Bergdahl, so far (and this is subject to change), he simply walked off post and started wandering around the Afghan countryside, asking people if they spoke any English. We don't know his motivation for that yet.


From everything I heard, the bolded part above shouldn't be possible, that you can't just walk out of a base on a whim.
2014-06-11 02:16:19 PM  
1 votes:

dittybopper: Even though we really don't know much solid about the Bergdahl case yet, we know enough to realize that there is a fundamental difference between the two  situations.


If we don't yet know enough to state the facts regarding the loss/capture of Bergfart, then by definition we do not know enough to tell whether there is a fundamental difference.
2014-06-11 02:08:24 PM  
1 votes:

dittybopper: Somacandra: Doesn't change the fact that the exchange was a good thing.

That of course remains to be seen.


No, it doesn't.  The exchange was good.

I'm withholding judgement, because I think there is too much that we really don't know at this point about the events of the day that he was captured, and what he was thinking at the time.

^^At that is why^^

Without making the exchange, we would never know.  If you want answers to those questions, the exchange is necessary.
2014-06-11 01:30:40 PM  
1 votes:

Three Crooked Squirrels: Who the fark cares? Bring him back and try him if the facts warrant.


Its a terrible book, but you still can't prosecute someone for reading  Atlas Shrugged.
2014-06-11 01:28:53 PM  
1 votes:
No wonder the GOP didn't want us to bring him home.
2014-06-11 01:03:30 PM  
1 votes:
Farking afghans...

www.knittingpark.com
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-06-11 12:54:39 PM  
1 votes:
Randian objectivist who was mentally unfit to serve in the first place

I think those are prefect qualifications for cannon fodder.
 
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