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(Gawker)   Sgt Bowe Bergdahl, who was first a missing American hero, then AWOL, then a peaceful man trying help Afghans who got caught, then a traitorous deserter Muslim, is now a Randian objectivist who was mentally unfit to serve in the first place   (gawker.com ) divider line
    More: Weird, Bowe Bergdahl, Atlas Shrugged, conservative media, Taliban  
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2021 clicks; posted to Politics » on 11 Jun 2014 at 4:02 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-11 03:32:23 PM  

SurfaceTension: I also think that if there is substance to the charges we've been hearing in the press, that he deserves a court martial so he can get his due process. I think it's absolutely awful that he's getting this trial in the press because some people don't like Obama.


This I certainly agree 100% with.
 
2014-06-11 03:41:18 PM  

dittybopper: As near was we can tell with Bergdahl, so far (and this is subject to change), he simply walked off post and started wandering around the Afghan countryside, asking people if they spoke any English. We don't know his motivation for that yet.


From everything I heard, the bolded part above shouldn't be possible, that you can't just walk out of a base on a whim.
 
2014-06-11 04:04:31 PM  
If this story is spun anymore, you could take it to Vegas.
 
2014-06-11 04:08:07 PM  
What does the Army have against tattoos? Are they more of a Navy thing?
 
2014-06-11 04:09:06 PM  

dittybopper: Somacandra: dittybopper: Even though we really don't know much solid about the Bergdahl case yet, we know enough to realize that there is a fundamental difference between the two  situations.

If we don't yet know enough to state the facts regarding the loss/capture of Bergfart, then by definition we do not know enough to tell whether there is a fundamental difference.

Sure we do.  We do know one walked away from his post and spent at a minimum at least 5 hours, and quite likely more, wandering around the Afghan countryside.

TIMELINE: 0430z BLACKFOOT TOC REPORTS SOLDIER IS MISSING
...
UPDATE: 1012z GUARDRAIL REPORTS PICKED UP LLVI TRAFFIC AT GRID VB 6597 3366 THAT STATES (UIM INDICATES THAT AN AMERICAN SOLDIER IS TALKING AND IS LOOKING FOR SOMEONE WHO SPEAKS ENGLISH. INDICATES AMERICAN SOLDIER HAS CAMERA)

So he goes missing sometime before 0430 Zulu time, and at 1012 Zulu a Guardrail aircraft reports "low level voice intercept" traffic about an American soldier who is walking around with a camera and looking for someone who speaks English.

This is a Guardrail RC-12 aircraft:

[dev.defense-update.com image 520x347]

It's specifically designed to intercept communications at a tactical level.  I have friends that have flown them (including missions in Iraq and Afghanistan).


Or it mean they've *captured* someone who is now asking to speak with someone who speaks english.

Why on earth is that not a possibility?
 
2014-06-11 04:10:35 PM  
I thought Republicans loved Ayn Rand?
 
2014-06-11 04:10:48 PM  

Wendy's Chili: What does the Army have against tattoos? Are they more of a Navy thing?


As true to the Navy as Rum, sodomy and lashes.
 
2014-06-11 04:11:10 PM  

21-7-b: "No, Mr. President, a soldier expressing horrid anti-American beliefs - even boldly putting them in writing and unabashedly firing off his messages while in uniform, just three days before he left his unit on foot - is not 'honorable service.' Unless that is your standard."

Ms Palin, you really are the most giving person on the planet


Support Our Republican Troops
 
2014-06-11 04:11:55 PM  
A young man steeped in a culture of violence and power who goes into his society's military had pro-objectivist ideas? Well, stop the farking presses.

Jesus, you people are stupid. Seriously, dangerously, stupid. If you cashiered everyone in the modern military who had some weird/stupid political ideas or was easily swayed into one political philosophy or another, you wouldn't have a military.

I speak from personal experience as a combat veteran of the 82nd Airborne. Trust me, you really don't want to know what ideology some 19 year old kid from Outer farkhole, Arkansas thinks is the right one. They're not hired for their political savvy, they're farking soliders.

I could tell you some stories about what passes for political thinking in the rank and file.
 
2014-06-11 04:12:52 PM  
Leave Bergdahl alone!
 
2014-06-11 04:13:10 PM  

21-7-b: "No, Mr. President, a soldier expressing horrid anti-American beliefs - even boldly putting them in writing and unabashedly firing off his messages while in uniform, just three days before he left his unit on foot - is not 'honorable service.' Unless that is your standard."

Ms Palin, you really are the most giving person on the planet


"Todd and I are praying for Private First Class Bowe Bergdahl, his family, and all of his fellow soldiers who are putting their lives on the line to defend our freedom and protect democracy abroad," Governor Palin said. "The capture of Private Bergdahl and the bombings in Jakarta prove that we have not defeated terrorism, and that radical extremists will stop at nothing to attack Westerners and our ideals."

Seems like it was her standard in 2009...
 
2014-06-11 04:13:44 PM  

dittybopper: I swear his middle name must be "Rorschach".


The streets are extended gutters, and the gutters are full of blood, and when the drains finally scab over? All the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists, and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"

And I'll look down and whisper: "Insha'Allah."
 
2014-06-11 04:14:49 PM  

dittybopper: Lionel Mandrake: I have enough evidence to say it was good to make the exchange.

If he is found to be a deserter and even a traitor, I will support punishing him,  Severely.  But I will still support having made the deal

Some people will disagree, of course, but I do not believe it is even possible that any further information would have the ability to cause me to change my mind and force me to conclude "we should have left him there"

And that is where we disagree.  I'm open to welcoming him home as a "hero" if the situation warrants it.  I'm also open to the idea that leaving him there could have been the best option, or the "least bad" option, depending.



What facts could come out that could justify leaving him in captivity?  Remember that we now know he tried to escape twice.
 
2014-06-11 04:14:49 PM  
Sometimes I wish I could see into a parallel universe, just to see what the outrage would have been if the headlines were "The only confirmed POW, Sgt. Bergdahl, has been labeled a deserter, despite not having enough evidence to charge him for the last five years, and will be left in Afganistan as the military pulls out their forces."
 
2014-06-11 04:15:11 PM  

21-7-b: "No, Mr. President, a soldier expressing horrid anti-American beliefs - even boldly putting them in writing and unabashedly firing off his messages while in uniform, just three days before he left his unit on foot - is not 'honorable service.' Unless that is your standard."

Ms Palin, you really are the most giving person on the planet


Because I really needed to hear what a woman who quit halfway through her job had to say about a deserter.
 
2014-06-11 04:15:18 PM  
I'm beginning to suspect that he might be a human being with flaws, some of which are serious.
 
2014-06-11 04:15:38 PM  

Somacandra: Doctor Funkenstein: Diogenes: That dude wears more hats than N0bummer.

Indeed.  And there's only one way to approach this conundrum.  It's time to befart his name.   It's the only way to be sure.  Fartgent Blowe Buttdookhl!

Bergfart.

Not to be confused with

Fartghazi.


I can't stop giggling.

Tee hee
 
2014-06-11 04:16:28 PM  

Saners: Sometimes I wish I could see into a parallel universe, just to see what the outrage would have been if the headlines were "The only confirmed POW, Sgt. Bergdahl, has been labeled a deserter, despite not having enough evidence to charge him for the last five years, and will be left in Afganistan as the military pulls out their forces."


We were in that universe until he was released.
 
2014-06-11 04:16:56 PM  

Cyclometh: A young man steeped in a culture of violence and power who goes into his society's military had pro-objectivist ideas? Well, stop the farking presses.

Jesus, you people are stupid. Seriously, dangerously, stupid. If you cashiered everyone in the modern military who had some weird/stupid political ideas or was easily swayed into one political philosophy or another, you wouldn't have a military.

I speak from personal experience as a combat veteran of the 82nd Airborne. Trust me, you really don't want to know what ideology some 19 year old kid from Outer farkhole, Arkansas thinks is the right one. They're not hired for their political savvy, they're farking soliders.

I could tell you some stories about what passes for political thinking in the rank and file.


If they had any brains, they'd be CPTs, not PFCs.
 
2014-06-11 04:17:50 PM  

Rapmaster2000: I don't care about his words or actions. The important thing is his father's Talibeard.


A Talibeard that spews hateful Pashto and Arabic!

And is there any other kind of Pashto and Arabi? I don't think so!

/Now, ancient Sumerian?
/You asked me to enter the holy cloister,
The giparu,
and I went inside, I the high priestess
Enheduanna!
I carried the ritual basket and sang
Your praise.
Now I am banished among the lepers.
Even I cannot live with you.
Shadows approach the light of day, the light
Is darkened around me,
Shadows approach the daylight,
Covering the day with sandstorm.
My soft mouth of honey is suddenly confused.
My beautiful face is dust.
 
2014-06-11 04:19:02 PM  
An Army official told the Post that the service had been aware of his prior military record before he enlisted. As the paper notes, that sort of a discharge usually precludes future military service.


Yeah, but they lowered the bar waaaaaay down to the ground to get bodies over to Iraq and Afghanistan when they figured out that it wasn't going to be a "cakewalk". It really doesn't surprise me that something like this happens. The only surprise is that it didn't happen earlier.
 
2014-06-11 04:19:31 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: dittybopper: And if any one of us is in a position to judge, McCain is, having been there.

Except that McCain supposedly OK'd the deal a couple of years ago when this was first set in motion, after speaking with then-Senator John Kerry. After the deal was done, he went two-faced and started the public outrage act.


Isn't that how he does pretty much everything?
 
2014-06-11 04:20:17 PM  
He seems more like a Catcher in the Rye type. But I do not know him and will not judge him. I do hope he gets mental health treatment, if he needs it.
 
2014-06-11 04:20:27 PM  
I wish Bowe Bergdahl the best, but...

This story is making me laugh, and I feel bad.
 
2014-06-11 04:20:38 PM  

timujin: dittybopper: As near was we can tell with Bergdahl, so far (and this is subject to change), he simply walked off post and started wandering around the Afghan countryside, asking people if they spoke any English. We don't know his motivation for that yet.

From everything I heard, the bolded part above shouldn't be possible, that you can't just walk out of a base on a whim.


The base was a 'Small Footprint' base. The gates were guarded by the Afghanis. I'd imagine they don't question Americans walking out in the middle of the night very often.

But I think your overall point is still valid, and I'd really like to hear his immediate superiors excuses someday.
 
2014-06-11 04:22:02 PM  

Bith Set Me Up: I thought Republicans loved Ayn Rand?


If Bergdahl really was a Randian, he will be right wing hero in 48 hours.
 
2014-06-11 04:22:24 PM  
No surprise a stupid 3 trillion dollar dysfunctional foreign policy failure like Afghanistan/Iraq would launch crazy dysfunctional behavior to the forefront.
 
2014-06-11 04:23:22 PM  

dittybopper: Somacandra: dittybopper: Even though we really don't know much solid about the Bergdahl case yet, we know enough to realize that there is a fundamental difference between the two  situations.

If we don't yet know enough to state the facts regarding the loss/capture of Bergfart, then by definition we do not know enough to tell whether there is a fundamental difference.

Sure we do.  We do know one walked away from his post and spent at a minimum at least 5 hours, and quite likely more, wandering around the Afghan countryside.

TIMELINE: 0430z BLACKFOOT TOC REPORTS SOLDIER IS MISSING
...
UPDATE: 1012z GUARDRAIL REPORTS PICKED UP LLVI TRAFFIC AT GRID VB 6597 3366 THAT STATES (UIM INDICATES THAT AN AMERICAN SOLDIER IS TALKING AND IS LOOKING FOR SOMEONE WHO SPEAKS ENGLISH. INDICATES AMERICAN SOLDIER HAS CAMERA)

So he goes missing sometime before 0430 Zulu time, and at 1012 Zulu a Guardrail aircraft reports "low level voice intercept" traffic about an American soldier who is walking around with a camera and looking for someone who speaks English.

This is a Guardrail RC-12 aircraft:

[dev.defense-update.com image 520x347]

It's specifically designed to intercept communications at a tactical level.  I have friends that have flown them (including missions in Iraq and Afghanistan).


Is that a cat detector plane? I've never seen so many bleedin' aerials...
 
2014-06-11 04:23:41 PM  

IlGreven: If they had any brains, they'd be CPTs, not PFCs.


In my experience, the CPTs and LTs were actually worse. Most of the enlisted guys were just young punks who hadn't really thought about anything seriously enough to have formed a cogent philosophy- but some had. The officers were far less likely to have done any self-examination. The older ones- who'd lasted a while and had some perspective, sure. Met a few really smart majors and colonels. But younger officers were just as bad as the rank and file.

I thought I was going to get court-martialed (well, not really but the guy was REALLY pissed) when I explained to the super-fundy Christian lieutenant, after having been harangued about God for most of a morning, about how I didn't understand how he could reconcile his religious belief in a peaceful and loving God who loved all people with the fact that he was in an organization of murderers.

I was afraid his head was going to pop when I pointed out that everything we did was done with the goal of being more efficient killers. We weren't in the business of peace, we were in the business of death, and we were VERY good at it. Training day in and day out to jump out of airplanes in any conditions, anywhere in the world, in 18 hours or less, loaded to kill anything we see. We were trained, efficient, and ruthless killers. We were paid, housed, fed and clothed in order to make sure we were always in peak murdering form.

He had never even thought about it.
 
2014-06-11 04:25:46 PM  

Mantour: Wendy's Chili: What does the Army have against tattoos? Are they more of a Navy thing?

As true to the Navy as Rum, sodomy and lashes.


Sigh.  I miss my youth.
 
2014-06-11 04:26:18 PM  

whidbey: No surprise a stupid 3 trillion dollar dysfunctional foreign policy failure like Afghanistan/Iraq would launch crazy dysfunctional behavior to the forefront.


Where do you get your information?  The war paid for itself.  If not then why don't I see it in any talks about budgets in congress?  There's no way they just went and spent that off the general ledger without serious debate.  You expect me to believe that?
 
2014-06-11 04:26:42 PM  

BSABSVR: Bith Set Me Up: I thought Republicans loved Ayn Rand?

If Bergdahl really was a Randian, he will be right wing hero in 48 hours.


Only because it will take that long to spin the facts so that Obama is somehow still at fault.
 
2014-06-11 04:27:00 PM  
Who farking cares. He's an American being held by the Taliban. He needed to be brought home. I'm glad the trade was made. Now WE can deal with him one way or another.
 
2014-06-11 04:28:37 PM  

Doctor Funkenstein: Diogenes: That dude wears more hats than N0bummer.

Indeed.  And there's only one way to approach this conundrum.  It's time to befart his name.   It's the only way to be sure.  Fartgent Blowe Buttdookhl!


I just wanted to let you know - I have you farkied as "Out of the way Fartbongo! Time for Clintoot" and I specifically favorited you because of your befarting skills.
 
2014-06-11 04:30:05 PM  
It really sucks that he has obvious mental health issues.  Hard to say if it was due to combat stress, FUBAR goals in country, Catch-22 rules, being captured, threatened with death, solitary darkness for multiple days on end, or reading Ayn Rand that threw him off the page of the sane.
 
2014-06-11 04:33:02 PM  

hammettman: It really sucks that he has obvious mental health issues.  Hard to say if it was due to combat stress, FUBAR goals in country, Catch-22 rules, being captured, threatened with death, solitary darkness for multiple days on end, or reading Ayn Rand that threw him off the page of the sane.


I'm going with 'Fundy Parents'.
 
2014-06-11 04:33:23 PM  

Cyclometh: We weren't in the business of peace, we were in the business of death, and we were VERY good at it. Training day in and day out to jump out of airplanes in any conditions, anywhere in the world, in 18 hours or less, loaded to kill anything we see. We were trained, efficient, and ruthless killers. We were paid, housed, fed and clothed in order to make sure we were always in peak murdering form.


Somehow that's so much easier to see in retrospect when we've aged a bit huh?  But this man speaks truth.  We did what we did for 1 reason, to kill.  A lot.  Not for our own reasons.  How is this Sgt. any less of a man than I am?  I can assure you I had the same doubts that he did at one point.  I simply didn't have the physical opportunity he did.

My honorable discharge will stand, his is being questioned.  Why?
 
2014-06-11 04:35:05 PM  

lilbjorn: BSABSVR: Bith Set Me Up: I thought Republicans loved Ayn Rand?

If Bergdahl really was a Randian, he will be right wing hero in 48 hours.

Only because it will take that long to spin the facts so that Obama is somehow still at fault.


Obama had to get Bergdahl away from the Taliban (aka his ideological brethren) before Bergdahl taught them about objectivism and how Obama is a usurper
 
2014-06-11 04:36:04 PM  

21-7-b: "No, Mr. President, a soldier expressing horrid anti-American beliefs - even boldly putting them in writing and unabashedly firing off his messages while in uniform, just three days before he left his unit on foot - is not 'honorable service.' Unless that is your standard."

Ms Palin, you really are the most giving person on the planet


She's a devout patriot just like her secessionist husband.
 
2014-06-11 04:38:01 PM  
If only he had read that other fantasy novel instead. You know, the one about orcs.
 
2014-06-11 04:38:13 PM  
I thought they had hung him already.
 
2014-06-11 04:38:25 PM  

rohar: Somehow that's so much easier to see in retrospect when we've aged a bit huh? But this man speaks truth. We did what we did for 1 reason, to kill. A lot. Not for our own reasons. How is this Sgt. any less of a man than I am? I can assure you I had the same doubts that he did at one point. I simply didn't have the physical opportunity he did.

My honorable discharge will stand, his is being questioned. Why?


Because it is a convenient vehicle for them to attack the president with.

Seriously. That's the only reason they care.
 
2014-06-11 04:40:26 PM  
The real story doesn't matter, we'll just write a new one for him!  Whatever it takes to make a reality that agrees with us!
 
2014-06-11 04:40:28 PM  

kronicfeld: I heard that Bergdahl once burped and didn't say "excuse me."


I heard he left the latrine with no TP in it and didn't resupply it.
 
Bf+
2014-06-11 04:40:57 PM  
Sooo... Row 6, Column 2?

img.fark.net

/Maybe our government shouldn't have interfered.
//So confused now...
 
2014-06-11 04:41:00 PM  

dittybopper: I'm also open to the idea that leaving him there could have been the best option, or the "least bad" option, depending.


No. Just...no.

We are better than that.
 
2014-06-11 04:42:09 PM  

Bane of Broone: Somacandra: Doctor Funkenstein: Diogenes: That dude wears more hats than N0bummer.

Indeed.  And there's only one way to approach this conundrum.  It's time to befart his name.   It's the only way to be sure.  Fartgent Blowe Buttdookhl!

Bergfart.

Not to be confused with

Fartghazi.

I can't stop giggling.

Tee hee


fartberg

fated to sink the titanobamic
 
2014-06-11 04:43:20 PM  

xKallisti: Doctor Funkenstein: Diogenes: That dude wears more hats than N0bummer.

Indeed.  And there's only one way to approach this conundrum.  It's time to befart his name.   It's the only way to be sure.  Fartgent Blowe Buttdookhl!

I just wanted to let you know - I have you farkied as "Out of the way Fartbongo! Time for Clintoot" and I specifically favorited you because of your befarting skills.


I'm honored good, sir.  It must have been this picture that inspired that one.

i595.photobucket.com

And let there be no question.  Hillapoot Clintoot and her rumbling colon of villainy will soon be upon us, percolating butt clouds to fire across the bows of liberty when we least expect it.  The revfartolution is coming!
 
2014-06-11 04:44:38 PM  
If Obama had a white son, he would look like Bergdahl.
 
2014-06-11 04:44:42 PM  
Senator McCain, how much blood and money has Pvc Bergfart cost us in crashed airplanes and aircraft carriers set on fire for yucks?

Oh, wait, that was some other American hero. Nevermind.
 
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