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(The Mary Sue)   DC Comics writer complains his conservative politics lost him jobs. Frank Miller rolls eyes   (themarysue.com) divider line 78
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2345 clicks; posted to Geek » on 10 Jun 2014 at 8:54 PM (11 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-10 05:26:46 PM
Article, of course, made no mention as to how DC sucks nowadays...
 
2014-06-10 05:27:36 PM
Stupid.

Even if you have politics interfering with your thought process. It shouldn't interfere with your imagination. Heinlen for example was a lifetime liberal but somehow managed to write books like "Starship Troopers" which is incredibly pro-fascist if not tongue in cheek.

Oh wait, we're talking about a conservative now aren't we... yeah, generally that type isn't that creative.
 
2014-06-10 05:43:19 PM
Well, it could have also been because he was an un-empathetic, loudmouth, douche bag.

...oh, wait.
 
2014-06-10 05:55:33 PM
While his conservative views may have cost him a job here or there, I don't believe that's why he's not getting work at the big two.

Both Marvel and DC have pretty much quit using the great writers and artists from the 80s and 90s across the board. Every now and then, you'll see a book from the big two by Dan Jurgens or someone like that, and Peter David has his one X-Title, and Mark Waid has Daredevil, but that's about it.

When was the last time you saw a book written by Roger Stern? William Messner-Loebs? Jerry Ordway writing or on art? John Byrne?  Hell, even Kurt Busiek, outside of Astro City?

The guys who did the best books of the 80s and 90s didn't lose their touch, they just aren't used anymore because the mostly bad artists DC and Marvel use for everything now are much cheaper, and the writers don't really matter because editorial dictates everything so anyone can be tasked to knock out a script since they don't really have to come up with any ideas or anything, just fill in some dialogue balloons.
 
2014-06-10 05:57:17 PM
Conservative superheros?  So, Superman would Heat-Vision anyone smoking pot but would be completely oblivious to banks and other financial institutions ripping off and stealing from the public through shady land deals and other funny-money schemes because they were "the banks"?
 
2014-06-10 05:58:34 PM
Sounds like it's just a matter if him not wanting to do what his editors told him to do, and the editors not wanting to use his ideas in comics.

It's less political and more for artistic reasons it seems.
 
MBK [TotalFark]
2014-06-10 06:36:59 PM
This is how the conversation probably went:

DC: "Hey, a lot of people are dealing with AIDS right now, we should write a storyline that discusses it..."

Writer: "LIBERAL MEDIA LIBERAL MEDIA LIBERAL MEDIA"
 
2014-06-10 07:06:38 PM

MBK: This is how the conversation probably went:

DC: "Hey, a lot of people are dealing with AIDS right now, we should write a storyline that discusses it..."

Writer: "LIBERAL MEDIA LIBERAL MEDIA LIBERAL MEDIA"


 I believe this was the quote that started it all...

I don't want to expect to be able to shield my kids from the subject of homosexuality as the media seems intent on bringing into my home and nothing short of cutting the electricity and boarding the windows will stop it. But I DON'T want my kids reading about it in comics. I don't want Judd Winnick or Grant Morrison or the nimrod who wrote this 'Rawhide Kid' comic informing my kids about the many facets and lifestyle choices out there in the world. I'd like to be the one to talk to them about it when they're older and I feel the time is right. I especially object to them using characters familiar to my kids to present this worldview. Could you please leave the Beast and Green Lantern alone?"

So, basically, in a time when Judd Winick was Gaying up and AIDSifying everything in Green Lantern and Green Arrow that he could, and there was a Rawhide Kid book that made the Rawhide Kid a real raw hide kid, Dixon was speaking about being a responsible parent, trying to monitor what his children were reading, and in a roundabout way lamenting the fact that the direct market ghettoization of comics and narrowing the audience down to a few hundred thousand people has made what was once a medium for all ages into something for 20 and 30 somethings.

Naturally, people went apeshiat, even though his comics work never leaned right or left and his personal views didn't seep into the comics the way they ruined, say, Steve Ditko.

/IIRC, Dixon never really showed anyone in his books having sex, gay, straight, or otherwise. The one time he really dealt with the topic was the Spoiler getting teen pregnant and giving up her kid.
 
2014-06-10 07:22:37 PM

FirstNationalBastard: and there was a Rawhide Kid book that made the Rawhide Kid a real raw hide kid


He was made out of rawhide? I'm guessing his enemy was the average pet dog?
 
2014-06-10 08:33:36 PM
Would someone be kind enough to explain the Frank Miller rolling his eyes reference?
 
2014-06-10 08:45:05 PM

InterruptingQuirk: Would someone be kind enough to explain the Frank Miller rolling his eyes reference?


Frank Miller lost his mind and went completely bugfark nuts after 9/11, to the point of delaying the final part of Dark Knight Strikes Back for a year to give it a post-9/11 rewrite.

He eventually wrote a Batman comic which was a masturbatory fantasy about Batman fighting Al Qaeda and maybe even killing Osama Bin Laden. But, DC was smart enough to not want to go near that with a 10 foot pole, so Miller released it as "Holy Terror" with a different lead character that was a not even thinly veiled Batman.

Oh, and

fc03.deviantart.net

/of course, if you want a creator who truly hates women, look up Dave Sim.
 
2014-06-10 08:47:30 PM

FirstNationalBastard: Frank Miller lost his mind and went completely bugfark nuts after 9/11


That happened to a lot of writers and comedians.
 
2014-06-10 08:51:04 PM

FirstNationalBastard: Frank Miller lost his mind


FirstNationalBastard: Oh, and


Wow. These latest Batman and 300 films have a different light on them now. I feel a little weird now too. I'm going to go ask my wife if I can give her a hug now.
 
2014-06-10 09:22:39 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: Stupid.

Even if you have politics interfering with your thought process. It shouldn't interfere with your imagination. Heinlen for example was a lifetime liberal but somehow managed to write books like "Starship Troopers" which is incredibly pro-fascist if not tongue in cheek.

Oh wait, we're talking about a conservative now aren't we... yeah, generally that type isn't that creative.


I only saw Starship Troopers as a movie (yeah yeah) but that movie was very ANTI-fascist.

Is the movie just a complete 180 from the book?
 
2014-06-10 09:29:48 PM

NateAsbestos: Because People in power are Stupid: Stupid.

Even if you have politics interfering with your thought process. It shouldn't interfere with your imagination. Heinlen for example was a lifetime liberal but somehow managed to write books like "Starship Troopers" which is incredibly pro-fascist if not tongue in cheek.

Oh wait, we're talking about a conservative now aren't we... yeah, generally that type isn't that creative.

I only saw Starship Troopers as a movie (yeah yeah) but that movie was very ANTI-fascist.

Is the movie just a complete 180 from the book?


Yes and no. The movie was a parody of the book. The book was very subtle in its implications while the movie knocked you over the head with them. Great book btw.
 
2014-06-10 09:31:46 PM

NateAsbestos: Because People in power are Stupid: Stupid.

Even if you have politics interfering with your thought process. It shouldn't interfere with your imagination. Heinlen for example was a lifetime liberal but somehow managed to write books like "Starship Troopers" which is incredibly pro-fascist if not tongue in cheek.

Oh wait, we're talking about a conservative now aren't we... yeah, generally that type isn't that creative.

I only saw Starship Troopers as a movie (yeah yeah) but that movie was very ANTI-fascist.

Is the movie just a complete 180 from the book?


Must... Resist... Urge to... Nerdrage... Over Starship Troopers...

Breathe... Breathe...

Yes, the movie is very different from the book.
 
2014-06-10 09:32:58 PM
 
2014-06-10 09:33:55 PM
Doesn't this happen every couple of months? Conservative in entertainment industry complains s/he's surrounded by liberals who treated him/her poorly and didn't give him/her jobs..?

Yeah, we get it. You're blaming your sucky artistic talents on other people. Cry me a river, conservative who manages to make a living doing something other people would kill to do.
 
2014-06-10 09:41:57 PM
I always found Chuck Dixon's stories...boring to the point of being borderline unreadable.
 
2014-06-10 09:46:53 PM

MindStalker: Yes and no. The movie was a parody of the book. The book was very subtle in its implications while the movie knocked you over the head with them. Great book btw.


I wouldn't say that it knocked you over the head. I think most people saw it as a straight ahead action movie with the humans being the good guys and Doogie Howser only wore Nazi uniform because he had fabulous taste.
 
2014-06-10 10:04:42 PM
Hey Frank I have an idea.  Start your own comic so that you can present your Real Murcan JenYouWine Hee-Roes any way you want.
 
2014-06-10 10:12:40 PM

Mugato: MindStalker: Yes and no. The movie was a parody of the book. The book was very subtle in its implications while the movie knocked you over the head with them. Great book btw.

I wouldn't say that it knocked you over the head. I think most people saw it as a straight ahead action movie with the humans being the good guys and Doogie Howser only wore Nazi uniform because he had fabulous taste.


Verhoven was unfamiliar with the book and pretty much just used some character names and the name of the book.  The script for the movie was originally called "Bug Hunt at Outpost Nine".  Verhoven didn't even bother to read the book.

 They are two very different stories.
 
2014-06-10 10:17:48 PM

Nix Nightbird: Doesn't this happen every couple of months? Conservative in entertainment industry complains s/he's surrounded by liberals who treated him/her poorly and didn't give him/her jobs..?

Yeah, we get it. You're blaming your sucky artistic talents on other people. Cry me a river, conservative who manages to make a living doing something other people would kill to do.


So, you hear frequent stories, from various entertainment media, in which an artist complains that their politics makes them a target for mistreatment from those who hold to different politics, and your conclusion is... They're all bad artists? All of them? It never occurs to you that maybe you're hearing so many of these stories because this sort of thing actually happens?
 
2014-06-10 10:19:35 PM
As we all know, comics have a very liberal bias. You hardly ever see true objectivism, like if some billionaire was to "privatize world peace" and mock an inept government in the process. Or maybe if another one decides even the local government is too corrupt and incompetent, so he sets about getting justice without them. Maybe the government decides to get really expansive and invasive because they've been invaded by socialists, and one lone hero has to assemble his own militia to stop them. Who knows? Maybe somebody goes full-on renegade and sets about getting a collection of guns that would make Charlton Heston's corpse get a boner, using it to do the things cops won't.

Nah, Chuck. They wouldn't make any stories like that.
 
2014-06-10 10:47:44 PM
Everyone knows that superman is just socialist propaganda foisted on us by teh joos
 
2014-06-10 10:50:26 PM
"This weekend, Dixon and artist  Paul Rivoche (whose graphic novel adaptation of a popular conservative reading of the Great Depression hit shelves in the last month) "

What's the title? "F*CK Those Poors!"?
 
2014-06-10 11:00:53 PM

Son of Thunder: Nix Nightbird: Doesn't this happen every couple of months? Conservative in entertainment industry complains s/he's surrounded by liberals who treated him/her poorly and didn't give him/her jobs..?

Yeah, we get it. You're blaming your sucky artistic talents on other people. Cry me a river, conservative who manages to make a living doing something other people would kill to do.

So, you hear frequent stories, from various entertainment media, in which an artist complains that their politics makes them a target for mistreatment from those who hold to different politics, and your conclusion is... They're all bad artists? All of them? It never occurs to you that maybe you're hearing so many of these stories because this sort of thing actually happens?


Personally, my conclusion is that some people will blame anybody but themselves when their fortunes turn.
 
2014-06-10 11:20:00 PM

NateAsbestos: I only saw Starship Troopers as a movie (yeah yeah) but that movie was very ANTI-fascist.

Is the movie just a complete 180 from the book?


It was more... orthogonal to the book, in terms of themes.

The book was a fairly straight-faced exploration of a possible way that future societies would deal with the issues of democratic breakdown as the voting population expands, social balkanization as information became more ubiquitous, etc.  Where in The Moon is a Harsh Mistress posited that we'd basically roll with it and split up with little fanfare, maybe to the point of letting individuals do whatever, Starship Troopers went the other way and posited that we'd try to force the issue of unity by going to a militaristic technocracy that's always kind of looking for an external enemy.

It's more an exploratory work than advocating anything (being a fairly hard science fiction novel) but because Heinlein is very good at not writing his own values into every character like a lot of shiattier authors do and his viewpoint character is a true believer as proud of his nation as anybody else, a lot of really,  really stupid people have taken it as seriously supporting a variant of fascism.  Which sort of makes you wonder if they don't know that Moon (Libertarian), Job: A comedy of Justice (Anarchy), Stranger in a strange land (communist utopia), Lazarus Long (Corporatist), etc are all written by the same guy.

That said... the main enduring legacy of the work in pop culture terms is the badass power armor the space marines wear and their battle with the hive-mind/insectoid enemies.  And, space marines in general, ST pretty much invented the version Warhammer 40k rips off wholesale (though he didn't come up with 'marines, but in spaaaaace in itself).

The movie was an in-name-only military space opera that kept the bugs-aliens... and that's about it.  You've see it, they make the nation essentially a communist propaganda state with fascist trappings, take out all the interesting military history/tactics and the eventual obsolescence of the Marines (a fairly major theme/plot point in the books), and add psychic Neil Patrick Harris.  Can't argue it's not awesome in a campy, fun way, but it has more thematic relationship to Spaceballs than the novel it takes its name from.

hamdinger: like if some billionaire was to "privatize world peace" and mock an inept government in the process.


Iron man was released in 1963 with the explicit purpose of being Stan Lee's giant raised middle finger to his hippie co-workers, basically Daddy Warbucks as a more literal superhero.  Likewise, the Punisher was intended as a reaction/deconstruction of genre norms.

If your argument for comics being objectivist stems from a set of characters who owe their very existence to the fact that the creators wanted to do something intentionally against the grain of the predominant genre culture, you may want to re-think that a bit.

// Though I think you're sore of arguing at right-angles to what the guy is saying, his position is that he wanted to write characters that were essentially unambiguously in the right (according to the narrative, at least, obviously everything breaks to fridge logic in the end) and that he could have gotten away with that if he'd agreed with his boss's politics on what constitutes 'right', but because he didn't always his boss was always breathing down his neck to amend things to that the character suffered 'consequences' for shiat that he considered already resolved.  That's... actually not an unreasonable complaint, and far from an uncommon one for writers.  Editors messing with your shiat too much gets annoying, apparently.
 
2014-06-10 11:30:38 PM

Jim_Callahan: Iron man was released in 1963 with the explicit purpose of being Stan Lee's giant raised middle finger to his hippie co-workers, basically Daddy Warbucks as a more literal superhero


So was Peter Parker Stan Lee's giant raised middle finger to his conservative bosses as well, or are you talking out your ass?

Stan Lee is alive and well and he has never made such a claim, and he talks a LOT.
 
2014-06-10 11:30:38 PM
Almost by definition, if you are a "conservative" in this day and age, you're a prick.

He was fired because he was a prick, and they didn't like him. That's a legitimate reason to fire somebody.
 
2014-06-10 11:45:05 PM
Writing someone else's IP, follow instructions.

Or write your own characters and publish on the internet. It's not the old days when you depended on DC to distribute your stuff. He's got enough name recognition to get some buzz.
 
2014-06-10 11:54:48 PM

FirstNationalBastard: Oh, and


Hey, look, someone posted a completely useless webcomic made by a talentless hack.

Frank Miller can only write whores?

I guess Comissioner Yindel, Carrie Fisher, McKenna, Sarah Essen, Martha Washington, Elektra, etc are all whores.
 
2014-06-11 12:03:40 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2014-06-11 12:13:54 AM

hamdinger: [i.imgur.com image 850x1326]


Perfect. Infinitely better criticism than the "whores" comic.
 
2014-06-11 12:21:26 AM

hamdinger: [i.imgur.com image 850x1326]


*golfclap*

un4gvn666: hamdinger: [i.imgur.com image 850x1326]

Perfect. Infinitely better criticism than the "whores" comic.


Exactly. And this one not only shows more art skills, but it's much more poignant due to the DKR era Miller-style that was used.
 
2014-06-11 12:32:53 AM

Son of Thunder: Nix Nightbird: Doesn't this happen every couple of months? Conservative in entertainment industry complains s/he's surrounded by liberals who treated him/her poorly and didn't give him/her jobs..?

Yeah, we get it. You're blaming your sucky artistic talents on other people. Cry me a river, conservative who manages to make a living doing something other people would kill to do.

So, you hear frequent stories, from various entertainment media, in which an artist complains that their politics makes them a target for mistreatment from those who hold to different politics, and your conclusion is... They're all bad artists? All of them? It never occurs to you that maybe you're hearing so many of these stories because this sort of thing actually happens?



Yes. You're right. Victoria Jackson, Rob Schneider, and Kelsey Grammer are entertainment geniuses.


/Actually, I was totally surprised and disappointed to learn that Jon Cryer is a Republican. WTF, Duckie?!
 
2014-06-11 12:41:07 AM

Nix Nightbird: Son of Thunder: Nix Nightbird: Doesn't this happen every couple of months? Conservative in entertainment industry complains s/he's surrounded by liberals who treated him/her poorly and didn't give him/her jobs..?

Yeah, we get it. You're blaming your sucky artistic talents on other people. Cry me a river, conservative who manages to make a living doing something other people would kill to do.

So, you hear frequent stories, from various entertainment media, in which an artist complains that their politics makes them a target for mistreatment from those who hold to different politics, and your conclusion is... They're all bad artists? All of them? It never occurs to you that maybe you're hearing so many of these stories because this sort of thing actually happens?


Yes. You're right. Victoria Jackson, Rob Schneider, and Kelsey Grammer are entertainment geniuses.


/Actually, I was totally surprised and disappointed to learn that Jon Cryer is a Republican. WTF, Duckie?!


Yeah, what ever happened to that guy?

/anybody remember clint eastwood?
 
2014-06-11 12:48:38 AM
You know who's more conservative than Chuck Dixon? The guy who writes this:

static.comicvine.com

Do a good job writing, and no one cares what your political point of view is.
 
2014-06-11 12:51:53 AM
Even the Wall Street Urinal this week wrote that "there is no competition for liberal democracies."

So get over it or join the Taliban.
 
2014-06-11 01:16:49 AM
people still buy comics?
 
2014-06-11 01:29:55 AM

The Martian Manhandler: You know who's more conservative than Chuck Dixon? The guy who writes this:

[static.comicvine.com image 600x928]

Do a good job writing, and no one cares what your political point of view is.


Pity the writing started declining rather quickly after Homelands.   They really should have ended on 100 with Mr. Dark trapped forever as their own amusing statue.
 
2014-06-11 01:32:13 AM

Fano: Everyone knows that superman is just socialist propaganda foisted on us by teh joos


I thought he was a Christ metaphor.
 
2014-06-11 01:46:54 AM

FirstNationalBastard: When was the last time you saw a book written by Roger Stern? William Messner-Loebs? Jerry Ordway writing or on art? John Byrne?  Hell, even Kurt Busiek, outside of Astro City?


Roger Stern did several books for Marvel relatively recently, including a few issues of Amazing Spider-Man and a Captain America limited series. John Byrne doesn't work at either of the Big Two anymore because he is a crazy, irascible old man who is impossible to deal with (just look at his website). Kurt Busiek mostly does his own thing and got sidelined by mercury poisoning for several years, so he wasn't writing anything at all. Ordway did a Human Bomb series for DC in 2012, and Messner-Loebs had some health problems recently but is currently doing newspaper cartoons and some work for Boom! Studios.

Also, keep in mind that all these guys you grew up reading are at least in their sixties. Of course they don't write as much as they used to.

The guys who did the best books of the 80s and 90s didn't lose their touch, they just aren't used anymore because the mostly bad artists DC and Marvel use for everything now are much cheaper, and the writers don't really matter because editorial dictates everything so anyone can be tasked to knock out a script since they don't really have to come up with any ideas or anything, just fill in some dialogue balloons.

That's got to be a twenty-year-old complaint at Marvel. They really don't do that anymore. They have these big writers' summits where they get together every so often and bounce ideas off each other to determine where the whole line goes.

Granted, at DC, it's Dan Didio and Geoff Johns's world and everyone else just has to live in it.
 
2014-06-11 02:02:20 AM
Frank Miller also wrote the Martha Washington books, which are about a black woman from the slums who ends up fighting corporations which have grown in to powerful quasi-state powers for an explicitly liberal POTUS who is depicted in the story as being competent. She actually gets sent to South America to literally fight to protect the rainforest from greedy corporations out to destroy it.

It's strange to read Martha Washington now, considering how Frank Miller is now. He really took a sharp turn off the deep end at some point, but there was clearly a time when he wasn't such a conservative nut.
 
2014-06-11 02:14:42 AM
There is nothing wrong with the conservative mindset.  But there is a bunch wrong with the Republican party.
 
2014-06-11 02:47:23 AM

Ambivalence: Fano: Everyone knows that superman is just socialist propaganda foisted on us by teh joos

I thought he was a Christ metaphor.


Newsflash: Jesus Christ was probably the first Socialist.
 
2014-06-11 03:14:58 AM
Wait.... So Batman isn't supposed to be how conservatives see the world?

Going by the last movie, I thought liberals want to steal all your stuff, trash you home, and put you on trial, cops and people who run charities are bad guys or craven cowards (who of course would shun public service like real men if only they had the guts to do so), everyone else is greedy and venal, broken backs can be healed entirely with bed rest, the rope/social safety net is what keeps people from climbing out of the giant metaphor for crime and poverty, and Anne Hathaway really ought to grab them and tell them they've already done too much.

Mind you, I was bored out of my skull watching that movie.  After I noticed the theme I was just playing spot the pattern, so it's likely I saw stuff that wasn't there just to distract myself from fixing the dialogue in my head.
 
2014-06-11 03:49:53 AM

NateAsbestos: Because People in power are Stupid: Stupid.

Even if you have politics interfering with your thought process. It shouldn't interfere with your imagination. Heinlen for example was a lifetime liberal but somehow managed to write books like "Starship Troopers" which is incredibly pro-fascist if not tongue in cheek.

Oh wait, we're talking about a conservative now aren't we... yeah, generally that type isn't that creative.

I only saw Starship Troopers as a movie (yeah yeah) but that movie was very ANTI-fascist.

Is the movie just a complete 180 from the book?


The book wasn't pro-fascism, but it did put forward a fairly reasonable right-wing society. The only place it actually fell down was when addressing the question, "Why limit the vote to military vets?" and answered, "Because it works", with a throwaway suggestion of "exercise of the vote is an exercise of power, and military folks are trained to exercise power".
As didactic sci-fi goes, it's pretty good. Love him or hate him, Heinlein was no slouch.

The movie was mindless pap.
 
2014-06-11 03:54:14 AM

FirstNationalBastard: Naturally, people went apeshiat, even though his comics work never leaned right or left and his personal views didn't seep into the comics the way they ruined, say, Steve Ditko.

/IIRC, Dixon never really showed anyone in his books having sex, gay, straight, or otherwise. The one time he really dealt with the topic was the Spoiler getting teen pregnant and giving up her kid.


Yeah when Stephanie went to Planned Parenthood when she was considering whether to keep the baby or not he dealt with it in an impartial way.

The PP rep that she spoke to didn't spend all her time trying to talk her into an abortion for no reason.

And Steph totally didn't walk out of their with a snarky not-writers-mouthpeice quip of "oh so you're only 'pro-choice' if people make the choices you want them to."

That didn't happen, clearly.

/big Steph fan
//But that scene was Sally Floyd levels of soapboxing
 
2014-06-11 04:07:24 AM
I like Dixon. His run on the Batbooks, and Robin in particular were fantastic.

Serious politics have no place in mainstream books. At all. Indie books, alterna-books, sure. But not with the capes. That just makes you a douche, no matter what you believe in.

Count me in as a Stephanie Brown fan, her pregnancy aside. At least she took responsibility and had her child. Though why Tim found her viable is beyond me. Stephanie was a great Batgirl, and I wish we'd gotten to see her grow, especially contrasted against who Tim was becoming.  fark the New52, even if she's finally back.

/loved TDKR

 

Commander Lysdexic: FirstNationalBastard: Naturally, people went apeshiat, even though his comics work never leaned right or left and his personal views didn't seep into the comics the way they ruined, say, Steve Ditko.

/IIRC, Dixon never really showed anyone in his books having sex, gay, straight, or otherwise. The one time he really dealt with the topic was the Spoiler getting teen pregnant and giving up her kid.

Yeah when Stephanie went to Planned Parenthood when she was considering whether to keep the baby or not he dealt with it in an impartial way.

The PP rep that she spoke to didn't spend all her time trying to talk her into an abortion for no reason.

And Steph totally didn't walk out of their with a snarky not-writers-mouthpeice quip of "oh so you're only 'pro-choice' if people make the choices you want them to."

That didn't happen, clearly.

/big Steph fan
//But that scene was Sally Floyd levels of soapboxing


Sally Floyd...from Marvel? The biatch who supported Registration?
 
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