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(Education Week)   Judge strikes down California's laws that protect teachers from being fired over things like pregnancy, ethnicity, and insanity (working in low-income schools)   ( divider line
    More: Asinine, ethnicity, Theodore B. Olson, Golden State  
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3764 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Jun 2014 at 5:25 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

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2014-06-10 06:09:40 PM  
3 votes:

F42: Subby: Law protects from racism.

TFA: "The laws in question require teachers to be granted tenure after just two years; compel layoffs to be made on the basis of seniority;"

Subby's dumb.

He clearly meant señority.
2014-06-11 12:19:20 AM  
2 votes:

stan unusual: Damn- should have proof read my numbering in the last post.

I figured you just really like 7.
2014-06-10 05:31:22 PM  
2 votes:
This decision violates a teacher's right to not be fired for being bad at their job.
2014-06-11 12:20:22 AM  
1 vote:

stan unusual: Damn- should have proof read my numbering in the last post.

I'm a public school grad and I don't see any problem!
2014-06-10 11:08:29 PM  
1 vote:

slayer199: TuteTibiImperes: Tenure is, overall, a good thing, and helps protect teachers from incompetent administrators and crazy parents.

Scrapping the system isn't the way to go, but it wouldn't be a bad thing to find a way to streamline the removal of genuinely bad actors in the teaching community.

The problem is, of course, how do you determine who is genuinely bad in the position vs who is the victim of false accusations, office politics, or unable to do their job effectively due to non-existant or poor administrative support.

Somehow private schools manage to perform well without tenure.

How about an independent board of parents, teachers, and citizens that evaluate if a teacher is any good.

Private schools perform well for the same reasons as charter schools - they can choose who they accept.  The top students at any public school will perform as well as the top students of any charter or private school, but the public schools have total scores dragged down by all of the kids they have to accept that would never be accepted by a private or a charter.

The public schools often have better pay and better benefits than the private schools.  The only reason that the private schools find teachers at all is because the job is a cakewalk compared to teaching in a public school.
2014-06-10 08:27:32 PM  
1 vote:

justinguarini4ever: silly season: Ok, Farkers. I want you to recall every School Admin story that we have all seen on Fark. Every Zero Tolerance, Over - reliance on School Policy decision, and just brain dead School Admin plan and action.

Those are the same people deciding who is and isn't a good teacher.... IF you want good teachers to go into that job and stay. They have to have some protection other than At-Will jobs.

That is why Tenure is needed....

Tenure is fine. The current process for dismissing grossly incompetent teachers is not. Having handled EPL insurance for a school district and seen the district settle with a teacher who was caught giving the students the answers for a standardized tests for $250,000, it seems the process is messed up.

So stipulated. The real question that hasn't been asked is which is the least - worse outcome? In other words, are there more instances of all but impossible to fire teachers? Or due to the many variables that surround Teaching, that Tenure for more experienced teachers is better in the long run?

My opinion is that the impossible to fire teachers outcome is in comparatively few States. The extreme complications that are part of teaching is in all the States and the least - worse outcome is Tenure.
2014-06-10 07:42:01 PM  
1 vote:
The reality is that there are no occupations currently unionized that started out that way. Always unionization happens in response to employer abuses, whether it's substandard pay, unsafe working conditions, unacceptable treatment or inappropriate expectations. The protections put into the contracts are there because they were needed to counteract past ill treatment. Administrators and districts both have used pressure and outright harassment to control teacher behavior, and so that's why we needed the due process protections.

To those of you who have mentioned office politics --- I don't think anyone here has denied the existence of it. But there's a difference between office politics and systematic harassment of an employee with the intent to either control them or drive them out. When that happens in offices, unless it's a really small firm, the manager gets fired if he can't work with the crew. That's how it was when I work a warehouse job --- in five years we went through three managers who couldn't work with the crew. The crew knew the job better and refused to implement changes that would have reduced productivity. Luckily we had a regional manager who understood our position. None of us got fired, but some of us got harassed by the managers when we didn't play along.

This is EXACTLY the situation the protections are there for: The teachers know their jobs. The vast majority of us are not incompetent boobs or kiddy-diddlers. When an administrator wants to make a change, it's better to take into account that the crew has some expertise and use that knowledge rather than deny it.
2014-06-10 06:59:02 PM  
1 vote:

Queensowntalia: muddythinker: Why should teachers and bureaucrats have such highly protected positions?

Teachers are in an excellent position to be screwed over by manipulative parents, who exist in droves. That's why.

So very true. I've been accused of some pretty heinous things, including completely crushing a child's spirit, and utterly destroying another's joy of learning. It's amazing how fragile children can be when you don't accept their late/plagiarized work (especially when it's actually the parent's work, they hate getting down-graded for cheating).
2014-06-10 05:38:02 PM  
1 vote:

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: Compensation really needs to be merit based.  Communism just doesn't work.

Except that teachers don't get to select their students. There isn't a lot a teacher can do with a lazy child with disinterested parents.
2014-06-10 05:07:47 PM  
1 vote:
Glory, glory hallelujah
Teacher hit me with a ruler
Met her at the door
With a loaded .44
And she ain't my teacher no more.
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