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(Uproxx)   This week in "Getting Smarter and Better at Cocktail Parties with John Oliver," Mr. Oliver takes FIFA to the woodshed just in time for The World Cup. Complete with Two Girls One Cup metaphor, of course   (uproxx.com) divider line 120
    More: Interesting, cocktail party, Fifa, World Cup  
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5627 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jun 2014 at 4:42 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-09 05:55:55 PM  

Hobodeluxe: yukichigai: Bottom line: I think the reason why it stands apart is because there's a surprising amount of journalism mixed in with this comedy, and Oliver is taking full advantage of the platform he's been given.

yeah he doesn't have to worry about offending a sponsor.


*shakes fist* lol.
 
2014-06-09 05:56:13 PM  
Right Said Fred put on a good show. well done.
 
2014-06-09 06:00:52 PM  

insertsnarkyusername: You didn't lose sales, you gained viewers.


in the absence of sponsors and advertising dollars, viewers are insignificant.

you didn't lose sales, you just shrank the market, because now there are people who will never purchase the product.  so, i guess you could say, you did lose sales.
 
2014-06-09 06:02:03 PM  
Good for you on those sales numbers. I'm not saying that everybody found it not worth paying for, I'm saying maybe those that pirated it did. You are the one that seems rather desperate here. I don't find anything immoral with what I'm doing and the illegal part is not a deterrent when the law behind it is basically unenforceable.

As a record store owner, my business faces ruin. CD sales have dropped through the floor. People aren't buying half as many CDs as they did just a year ago. Revenue is down and costs are up. My store has survived for years, but I now face the prospect of bankruptcy. Every day I ask myself why this is happening.

I bought the store about 12 years ago. It was one of those boutique record stores that sell obscure, independent releases that no-one listens to, not even the people that buy them. I decided that to grow the business I'd need to aim for a different demographic, the family market. My store specialised in family music - stuff that the whole family could listen to. I don't sell sick stuff like Marilyn Manson or cop-killer rap, and I'm proud to have one of the most extensive Christian rock sections that I know of.

The business strategy worked. People flocked to my store, knowing that they (and their children) could safely purchase records without profanity or violent lyrics. Over the years I expanded the business and took on more clean-cut and friendly employees. It took hard work and long hours but I had achieved my dream - owning a profitable business that I had built with my own hands, from the ground up. But now, this dream is turning into a nightmare.

Every day, fewer and fewer customers enter my store to buy fewer and fewer CDs. Why is no one buying CDs? Are people not interested in music? Do people prefer to watch TV, see films, read books? I don't know. But there is one, inescapable truth - Internet piracy is mostly to blame. The statistics speak for themselves - one in three discs world wide is a pirate. On The Internet, you can find and download hundreds of dollars worth of music in just minutes. It has the potential to destroy the music industry, from artists, to record companies to stores like my own. Before you point to the supposed "economic downturn", I'll note that the book store just across from my store is doing great business. Unlike CDs, it's harder to copy books over The Internet.

A week ago, an unpleasant experience with pirates gave me an idea. In my store, I overheard a teenage patron talking to his friend.

"Dude, I'm going to put this CD on the Internet right away."

"Yeah, dude, that's really lete [sic], you'll get lots of respect."

I was fuming. So they were out to destroy the record industry from right under my nose? Fat chance. When they came to the counter to make their purchase, I grabbed the little shiat by his shirt. "So...you're going to copy this to your friends over The Internet, punk?" I asked him in my best Clint Eastwood/Dirty Harry voice.

"Uh y-yeh." He mumbled, shocked.

"That's it. What's your name? You're blacklisted. Now take yourself and your little biatch friend out of my store - and don't come back." I barked. Cravenly, they complied and scampered off.

So that's my idea - a national blacklist of pirates. If somebody cannot obey the basic rules of society, then they should be excluded from society. If pirates want to steal from the music industry, then the music industry should exclude them. It's that simple. One strike, and you're out - no reputable record store will allow you to buy another CD. If the pirates can't buy the CDS to begin with, then they won't be able to copy them over The Internet, will they? It's no different to doctors blacklisting drug dealers from buying prescription medicine.

I have just written a letter to the RIAA outlining my proposal. Suing pirates one by one isn't going far enough. Not to mention pirates use the fact that they're being sued to unfairly portray themselves as victims. A national register of pirates would make the problem far easier to deal with. People would be encouraged to give the names of suspected pirates to a hotline, similar to TIPS. Once we know the size of the problem, the police and other law enforcement agencies will be forced to take piracy seriously. They have fought the War on Drugs with skill, so why not the War on Piracy?

This evening, my daughters asked me. "Why do the other kids laugh at us?"

I wanted to tell them the truth - it's because they wear old clothes and have cheap haircuts. I can't afford anything better for them right now.

"It's because they are idiots, kids", I told them. "Don't listen to them."

When the kids went to bed, my wife asked me, "Will we be able to keep the house, David?"

I just shook my head, and tried to hold back the tears. "I don't know, Jenny. I don't know."

When my girls ask me questions like that, I feel like my heart is being wrenched out of my chest. But knowing that I'm doing the best I can to save my family and my business is some consolation.

Some people are offended by my blacklist system. I may have made my store less popular for pirates and sympathisers, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make to save my industry from destruction. I am inspired by artists such as Metallica that have taken a stand against the powerful pirate lobby. When everyone believes 2 + 2 = 5, to simply state the truth, that 2 + 2 = 4, is a courageous act.
 
2014-06-09 06:03:27 PM  

insertsnarkyusername: They didn't steal from you, they found your work not worth the money you were charging or they weren't sure and wanted to check it out. Plus you are talking about a group of people who probably just download all of their entertainment from that site. You didn't lose sales, you gained viewers.


Just out of curiosity, do you routinely sneak into movie theaters? Do you a problem with those that do?
 
2014-06-09 06:05:48 PM  

insertsnarkyusername: shower_in_my_socks: insertsnarkyusername: shower_in_my_socks: insertsnarkyusername: I've never understood why people feel guilty for pirating.

Same reason people feel guilty for shoplifting.

Those aren't even remotely the same thing. If I shoplift say a 6 pack of beer that's one thing it's lost inventory that the store is out money on. If I could sit at home and magically make a copy of that 6 pack appear in front of me nothing is lost and nobody has been harmed.

That is absolute bullshiat. I'm an independent filmmaker with four documentaries in distribution. The first film that I made was self-distributed for the first few months before we found a distributor. I put it out on Amazon myself. Within days, it was already ripped and on the torrent sites. I found message boards where people were requesting a ripped version of it for them to download. It was RIGHT THERE on Amazon for them to buy - reasonably priced, and streaming, even, if they didn't want a disk. But why do that when they can just grab it for free? Those @ssholes STOLE MONEY FROM ME. Period. All of my films are self-funded. You're talking to a Farker who had money taken out of his pocket by this shiat, so don't try to defend it.

They didn't steal from you, they found your work not worth the money you were charging or they weren't sure and wanted to check it out. Plus you are talking about a group of people who probably just download all of their entertainment from that site. You didn't lose sales, you gained viewers.


It's the content creator's right to make the choice of how they go about distributing that content (ie greater revenue generation or viewership), not yours. Stop being such a whiny, self entitled d-bag and pay for the stuff you watch.
 
2014-06-09 06:06:17 PM  
You are just a common thief, plain and simple.  Own it.  BTW I am not saying I have never done the same thing or wouldn't again but the mental gymnastics some folks go through to rationalize/defend  their behavior cracks me up.
 
2014-06-09 06:09:29 PM  
I'm amazed that this is the clip of John Oliver we're seeing today and not Right Said Fred taking down Assad.

The difference between Oliver's show and the Daily Show is that the Daily has to talk about the biggest American news stories, and does so almost every day. Oliver brings you (take downs of the) news that you don't normally even hear about in the USA, exposes corruption and hypocrisy all over the world instead of just here, and can be smarter about it because he's on premium cable and doesn't have to worry about advertisers or lowest common denominator appeal.

It's like the BBC World version of the Daily Show. I wish it was 60 minutes long.
 
2014-06-09 06:10:21 PM  

Khellendros: Because if everyone goes your way, there are no more shows.


Are you telling me that HBO is getting ready to go out of business?
 
2014-06-09 06:12:38 PM  

Double-oh Steven: It's like the BBC World version of the Daily Show. I wish it was 60 minutes long.


I may go to an hour-long show in the future.  HBO's contract with Oliver specifically includes an option to expand the show's length if both parties are open to it, and judging by the reception and how much fun Oliver seems to be having, I'd say it's a fair bet they might.
 
2014-06-09 06:13:25 PM  

Penman: Some people are offended by my blacklist system. I may have made my store less popular for pirates and sympathisers, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make to save my industry from destruction. I am inspired by artists such as Metallica that have taken a stand against the powerful pirate lobby. When everyone believes 2 + 2 = 5, to simply state the truth, that 2 + 2 = 4, is a courageous act.


so someone was going to purchase the stuff and not download it and you stopped them? lol. you do realize that they'll just go d/l it for free right? all you did was remove one sale from the equation. and possibly more.
 
2014-06-09 06:14:14 PM  
Wow, this thread got derailed big time.

Anyway, John Oliver's show is awesome. I love The Daily Show, but Last Week Tonight has more freedom and it shows, making it far more biting than I think The Daily Show is allowed to be. As others have said, Oliver doesn't have to answer to anyone, and he can curse. And since I don't really follow soccer, I learned just how corrupt the FIFA is, something I don't think would be covered on TDS.
 
2014-06-09 06:16:27 PM  

BeerLion: You are just a common thief, plain and simple.  Own it.  BTW I am not saying I have never done the same thing or wouldn't again but the mental gymnastics some folks go through to rationalize/defend  their behavior cracks me up.


the labels need to make their money from the tours. the ability to record something once and make tens of millions off of it (or more) is really expecting too much for the amount of work and effort provided. especially since the actual artists only get a small fraction of the action.
 
2014-06-09 06:17:16 PM  

nmrsnr: I never understood why people don't feel any guilt over pirating.


Because the distributors are intentionally neglecting demonstrably profitable monetization methods that are somewhat consumer-friendly in favor of one so consumer-unfriendly that it amounts to a price-fixing scheme?

I imagine pirating HBO shows is sort of like out-cheating someone at poker when they were playing with a marked deck to begin with, there's a certain quantity of satisfaction involved in cheating someone of 5$ a month of value when they were trying to cheat you for 150.

// Technically a pirate, since "my" cable line/DVR is shared with all 100ish people in the building, as is the TV.  If you've ever watched the TV with more than 3 people, you're probably violating your ToS and are a dirty pirate, too.  Having friends is illegal, you bastard!
 
2014-06-09 06:19:40 PM  

insertsnarkyusername: shower_in_my_socks: insertsnarkyusername: I've never understood why people feel guilty for pirating.

Same reason people feel guilty for shoplifting.

Those aren't even remotely the same thing. If I shoplift say a 6 pack of beer that's one thing it's lost inventory that the store is out money on. If I could sit at home and magically make a copy of that 6 pack appear in front of me nothing is lost and nobody has been harmed.


See, and here I thought that theft was as simple as taking something that wasn't yours. As long as it doesn't change the bottom line, it's not really theft, huh? Awesome!!
So, as nmrsnr asked, do you also sneak into movie theaters? Or do you see a problem with that?
By your logic, is it ok to dabble in a bit of in-store employee theft, since that loss is routinely already figured into the cost of doing business?
By your logic, if I break into a business, and take stuff that doesn't belong to me, if the company is fully compensated by their insurance company for their financial loss, does that mean I'm not a thief?
 
2014-06-09 06:21:19 PM  

Hobodeluxe: Penman: Some people are offended by my blacklist system. I may have made my store less popular for pirates and sympathisers, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make to save my industry from destruction. I am inspired by artists such as Metallica that have taken a stand against the powerful pirate lobby. When everyone believes 2 + 2 = 5, to simply state the truth, that 2 + 2 = 4, is a courageous act.

so someone was going to purchase the stuff and not download it and you stopped them? lol. you do realize that they'll just go d/l it for free right? all you did was remove one sale from the equation. and possibly more.


Dude. Guy is trolling. Don't feed it. Also, it was a lame story.
 
2014-06-09 06:24:14 PM  

Khellendros: insertsnarkyusername: I've never understood why people feel guilty for pirating.

Because if you're being entertained by the show, you should probably be compensating the creators and talent somehow?  I'm not saying you should be required to have cable and support that structure, but you should at least be throwing a bit into the pot per episode, or watching commercials.  Something.

Because if everyone goes your way, there are no more shows.


I don't have cable.  And couldn't even get it until a month ago (new building) and I'm on the wrong side of the building for a satellite dish (don't get me started about my last experience with DirecTV).  How can I compensate the "creators" and "talent" (using both terms loosely) when I'm given no opportunity to do so?  Its time for these assholes to grow up and offer real choice to consumers.  But I doubt it will happen.

/NBC pulled the same shiat on the olympics
 
2014-06-09 06:25:02 PM  

Hobodeluxe: Penman: Some people are offended by my blacklist system. I may have made my store less popular for pirates and sympathisers, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make to save my industry from destruction. I am inspired by artists such as Metallica that have taken a stand against the powerful pirate lobby. When everyone believes 2 + 2 = 5, to simply state the truth, that 2 + 2 = 4, is a courageous act.

so someone was going to purchase the stuff and not download it and you stopped them? lol. you do realize that they'll just go d/l it for free right? all you did was remove one sale from the equation. and possibly more.


If you believe any of that story, I'm Nigerian royalty and you can help me move $20,000,000 from my home country to yours.
 
2014-06-09 06:26:53 PM  
I was in France for 98, and was in Lyon for the Scotland game (I think they were in St. Etienne).  I honestly don't remember a lot over that couple of days.  I remember my local took out the glass and brought in plastic cups (wise move in retrospect).  I do know I was so drunk that I felt it for days afterward, even without alcohol.  I did vomit, profusely, and was encouraged to keep drinking.  I remember getting blown by a Scottish brunette named Wanda while smoking a cigar.  I say "remember" but truth is I don't--there is photographic evidence, because she did it in the back pool room.  I have no idea if I came.  And probably most importantly, I remember one song we sang over and over.

"There's only one Wayne Rooney.
There's only one Wayne Rooney.
With a packet of sweets and a cheeky smile,
Rooney is a farking pedophile."

I found out later the next week, I made an international phone call home to my parents in Florida, and the entire bar sang that song.

On a more humbling note, I have to admit that after watching that video...Jesus, I feel farking educated about FIFA.  I mean, I knew Qatar bribed the fark out of them, anyone with half a brain could figure that out.  But the rest...just farking wow.
 
2014-06-09 06:27:36 PM  
once upon a time labels would pay money to the djs and program managers to play their music and share it for free over the airwaves. back then kids listened to the radio and taped the songs onto a cassette and shared with their friends. and the artists' fanbase grew because of it. and the people bought tickets to see them live. and if you were good enough they would come to see you the rest of your life and you had a great life doing what you loved and getting paid good money for it.

same thing happens today only digitally and over the internet. I think it speaks to a grand sense of entitlement that labels and/or artists think that just because they made one good recording that they should make tens of millions off of the sales of that recording. now they have every legal right to that money. the corporations have made sure of that. they've spent a lot of money to make sure of it. but if I were them I wouldn't begrudge a fan if they spread my music around. Heck they may make me more fans who buy tickets to my shows. who spread it around and grow my fan base even more.
 
2014-06-09 06:30:24 PM  

Jesus Farking Christ: I was in France for 98, and was in Lyon for the Scotland game (I think they were in St. Etienne).  I honestly don't remember a lot over that couple of days.  I remember my local took out the glass and brought in plastic cups (wise move in retrospect).  I do know I was so drunk that I felt it for days afterward, even without alcohol.  I did vomit, profusely, and was encouraged to keep drinking.  I remember getting blown by a Scottish brunette named Wanda while smoking a cigar.  I say "remember" but truth is I don't--there is photographic evidence, because she did it in the back pool room.  I have no idea if I came.  And probably most importantly, I remember one song we sang over and over.

"There's only one Wayne Rooney.
There's only one Wayne Rooney.
With a packet of sweets and a cheeky smile,
Rooney is a farking pedophile."

I found out later the next week, I made an international phone call home to my parents in Florida, and the entire bar sang that song.

On a more humbling note, I have to admit that after watching that video...Jesus, I feel farking educated about FIFA.  I mean, I knew Qatar bribed the fark out of them, anyone with half a brain could figure that out.  But the rest...just farking wow.


the NCAA is just as bad
 
2014-06-09 06:42:12 PM  

Penman: They have fought the War on Drugs with skill, so why not the War on Piracy?


LOL, you almost had me till this.
 
2014-06-09 06:45:06 PM  

insertsnarkyusername: I've never understood why people feel guilty for pirating.


Have you ever had a job where you felt your boss wasn't paying you enough for your level of work?
Ever worked for yourself and had a client try to not pay all they owed?
Ever waiting tables, worked your ass off for one, and they stiff you on the tip, or worse, the whole bill?

Pirating is a selfish act.  It denies compensation to those who create something.  True to any selfish act, if too many people also participate, the burden gets unfairly put upon those who do pay, who now have to pay a larger share,  until the entire system collapses.

Of course, the common put back to that is, I'd pay if they made something worth paying for, which is total bullshiat.  If it's worth pirating/watching/playing, then it's obviously worth paying for, since you felt it was valuable enough to go get.  You are entertained by something, thus it has value, and you should pay for it.  The same way you expect others to pay for the things you create.
 
2014-06-09 06:47:12 PM  

nmrsnr: some_beer_drinker: nmrsnr: More than Game of Thrones, this is tempting me to get an HBO subscription.

do you not understand how the internet works?

I gave up pirating a long time ago. Too much effort, too many viruses, and I don't have to try and not feel guilty through crappy justifications.


It's been 10+ years since I got any malware, let alone a full blown virus, through torrenting. It's not like it was back in the day.  I personally don't really do it much, a movie once every few months that's on Netflix but only on the DVD side, or similar.
 
2014-06-09 06:52:27 PM  

Penman: Why is no one buying CDs?


I'm not buying CDs because a lot of music I like isn't even available on CD, and if it is, it's usually a lot more expensive than AmazonMP3 or Bandcamp.  Admittedly, most of the stuff like isn't very popular and comes from other countries.

For an extreme example, this is $6.99 on AmazonMP3 or $33.11 for a CD directly from Amazon, or $17 plus from third party sellers. The band is Embrace of Disharmony, symphonic/avant-garde/progressive/female fronted metal from Italy
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JF2F3KQ/ref=dm_ws_ps_cdp?ie=UTF8 &q id=1402352561&s=music&sr=8-1

For popular artists, I would guess it's because you can buy singles off the internet.  Many unsophisticated music listeners don't want to listen to full albums, and others may view think the album is loaded with filler.  Bandcamp claims that on other sites, singles outsell albums 16 to 1.
 
2014-06-09 06:54:17 PM  

lostcat: I don't know how long his show is, but it's refreshing to see these 13-minute exposes, while TDS seems to have to crunch everything into shorter segments, which makes them seem rushed and incomplete.


Agreed.  Some of Stewart's best work on the Daily Show was his extended crusade to get 9-11 First Responders health care covered.
 
2014-06-09 07:01:01 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: You don't get to choose which laws you do and don't obey based on moral objectives to how various businesses operate.


I don't pirate but this statement pissed me off. We all get to choose which laws we obey and which we don't. No law is moral and just simply because it is a law.  Anybody who uses, 'because it's the law.' as justification for their actions isn't adult enough to be let out of the house unsupervised.
 
2014-06-09 07:15:49 PM  

weddingsinger: Pirating is a selfish act. It denies compensation to those who create something. True to any selfish act, if too many people also participate, the burden gets unfairly put upon those who do pay, who now have to pay a larger share, until the entire system collapses.


But if those people were never going to buy or watch legally in the first place it's not a lost sale. If I go to a museum and see a Van Gogh I like, and print it out later on a 3D printer, it's not like the market for Van Gogh purchasers has gone down because I was never going to buy one in the first place. I've watched a few cam-rip movies in the past few weeks because they were things I was never going to see in the theater in the first place, and I may just go see one of them in the theater because the movie was much better than I thought it would be. In that sense piracy may add a sale that didn't exist beforehand.
 
2014-06-09 07:22:53 PM  

Egoy3k: shower_in_my_socks: You don't get to choose which laws you do and don't obey based on moral objectives to how various businesses operate.

I don't pirate but this statement pissed me off. We all get to choose which laws we obey and which we don't. No law is moral and just simply because it is a law.  Anybody who uses, 'because it's the law.' as justification for their actions isn't adult enough to be let out of the house unsupervised.


this.

that seemed to be my parents justification for everything. because it's the law. why? because it is. that's all.

wtf? who programmed you to be a feedback loop?
 
2014-06-09 07:24:45 PM  
Linking to Uproxx instead of the original youtube video makes me a sad panda.
 
2014-06-09 07:41:25 PM  

nmrsnr: insertsnarkyusername: They didn't steal from you, they found your work not worth the money you were charging or they weren't sure and wanted to check it out. Plus you are talking about a group of people who probably just download all of their entertainment from that site. You didn't lose sales, you gained viewers.

Just out of curiosity, do you routinely sneak into movie theaters? Do you a problem with those that do?


When Ender's Game came out in theaters, I really wanted to see it but I could not in good conscience contribute monetarily in any way to Orson Scott Card due to his crazy bigotry.

So I paid for two tickets (I had someone with me) for an entirely different movie, then just went into room showing Ender's Game. Bought snacks at concessions and everything, just to be contributing properly.

I don't feel bad about it. Scott Card brought it upon himself.

I also later went back and saw the other movie, the one I paid for the first time, so I paid to watch that movie twice but only watched it once. I don't remember what it was, off-hand.

Okay, that's my cool story, bro.
 
2014-06-09 07:50:05 PM  

Jesus Farking Christ: I was in France for 98, and was in Lyon for the Scotland game (I think they were in St. Etienne).  I honestly don't remember a lot over that couple of days.  I remember my local took out the glass and brought in plastic cups (wise move in retrospect).  I do know I was so drunk that I felt it for days afterward, even without alcohol.  I did vomit, profusely, and was encouraged to keep drinking.  I remember getting blown by a Scottish brunette named Wanda while smoking a cigar.  I say "remember" but truth is I don't--there is photographic evidence, because she did it in the back pool room.  I have no idea if I came.  And probably most importantly, I remember one song we sang over and over.

"There's only one Wayne Rooney.
There's only one Wayne Rooney.
With a packet of sweets and a cheeky smile,
Rooney is a farking pedophile."

I found out later the next week, I made an international phone call home to my parents in Florida, and the entire bar sang that song.

On a more humbling note, I have to admit that after watching that video...Jesus, I feel farking educated about FIFA.  I mean, I knew Qatar bribed the fark out of them, anyone with half a brain could figure that out.  But the rest...just farking wow.


CSB, but I'm gonna call BS. Wayne Rooney would have been about 13 in 1998 and heard of by precisely no-one at the time, least of all a bar of drunken Scots. I suggest revising your story with a more appropriate choice of English footballer.
 
2014-06-09 08:03:10 PM  

ChadM89: nmrsnr: insertsnarkyusername: They didn't steal from you, they found your work not worth the money you were charging or they weren't sure and wanted to check it out. Plus you are talking about a group of people who probably just download all of their entertainment from that site. You didn't lose sales, you gained viewers.

Just out of curiosity, do you routinely sneak into movie theaters? Do you a problem with those that do?

When Ender's Game came out in theaters, I really wanted to see it but I could not in good conscience contribute monetarily in any way to Orson Scott Card due to his crazy bigotry.

So I paid for two tickets (I had someone with me) for an entirely different movie, then just went into room showing Ender's Game. Bought snacks at concessions and everything, just to be contributing properly.

I don't feel bad about it. Scott Card brought it upon himself.

I also later went back and saw the other movie, the one I paid for the first time, so I paid to watch that movie twice but only watched it once. I don't remember what it was, off-hand.

Okay, that's my cool story, bro.


You could have done your research and found out he wasn't going to get anything from the movie. Any money he made from the movie was dealt with years ago.

http://www.thewire.com/entertainment/2013/10/enders-game-movie-profit s -wont-go-orson-scott-card/71136/
 
2014-06-09 08:13:39 PM  

Jaden Smith First of His Name: weddingsinger: Pirating is a selfish act. It denies compensation to those who create something. True to any selfish act, if too many people also participate, the burden gets unfairly put upon those who do pay, who now have to pay a larger share, until the entire system collapses.

But if those people were never going to buy or watch legally in the first place it's not a lost sale. If I go to a museum and see a Van Gogh I like, and print it out later on a 3D printer, it's not like the market for Van Gogh purchasers has gone down because I was never going to buy one in the first place. I've watched a few cam-rip movies in the past few weeks because they were things I was never going to see in the theater in the first place, and I may just go see one of them in the theater because the movie was much better than I thought it would be. In that sense piracy may add a sale that didn't exist beforehand.


You're comparing a rare item (a Van Gogh) to a common one, though your printing of a non-copyrighted item did cost the museum's gift shop a sale (of the poster).  Plus, it doesn't change the fact that, if you're not willing to pay for something, then just don't participate.  It's the same courtesy you would expect of other people for your own work.  That's how a society works.  If you only take without contributing, then you're just an asshole.  Justifying it by claiming you would never pay for it is bullshiat.  Then don't watch the movies at all if they're such garbage instead of rationalizing enjoying the fruits of someone's work without paying them.
 
2014-06-09 08:23:47 PM  

gwowen: Excellent long-form takedown of Chuck Blazer, the US's erstwhile FIFA Committee man


What a great read. Made my day.
 
2014-06-09 08:27:37 PM  

Empty H: ChadM89: nmrsnr: insertsnarkyusername: They didn't steal from you, they found your work not worth the money you were charging or they weren't sure and wanted to check it out. Plus you are talking about a group of people who probably just download all of their entertainment from that site. You didn't lose sales, you gained viewers.

Just out of curiosity, do you routinely sneak into movie theaters? Do you a problem with those that do?

When Ender's Game came out in theaters, I really wanted to see it but I could not in good conscience contribute monetarily in any way to Orson Scott Card due to his crazy bigotry.

So I paid for two tickets (I had someone with me) for an entirely different movie, then just went into room showing Ender's Game. Bought snacks at concessions and everything, just to be contributing properly.

I don't feel bad about it. Scott Card brought it upon himself.

I also later went back and saw the other movie, the one I paid for the first time, so I paid to watch that movie twice but only watched it once. I don't remember what it was, off-hand.

Okay, that's my cool story, bro.

You could have done your research and found out he wasn't going to get anything from the movie. Any money he made from the movie was dealt with years ago.

http://www.thewire.com/entertainment/2013/10/enders-game-movie-profit s -wont-go-orson-scott-card/71136/


Eh. I wasn't obsessed or anything. The whole episode went like this:

Me: 'Oh you wanna see Ender's Game? That's cool, but that Orson Scott Card sure is an asshole. Let's pay for a different movie instead and just go watch it. Cool?'

Her: 'Yeah that works.'

End of story.
 
2014-06-09 08:27:48 PM  

weddingsinger: You're comparing a rare item (a Van Gogh) to a common one, though your printing of a non-copyrighted item did cost the museum's gift shop a sale (of the poster). Plus, it doesn't change the fact that, if you're not willing to pay for something, then just don't participate. It's the same courtesy you would expect of other people for your own work. That's how a society works. If you only take without contributing, then you're just an asshole. Justifying it by claiming you would never pay for it is bullshiat. Then don't watch the movies at all if they're such garbage instead of rationalizing enjoying the fruits of someone's work without paying them.


But in my non-payment I've made a lot of other people money. I paid my ISP for the subscription to download at fast speeds. I paid for the electricity to run it. I ate some Sour Patch kids that are only a movie treat. Tom Cruise may get some theatrical release money out of me because Edge of Tomorrow was pretty good even on a Chinese cam. All in all I chipped into a lot of little pots for a thing I wasn't going to bother going to the theater for anyway.

Do you run an adblocker? Do you use a DVR to skip through commercials? If so, you're enjoying the fruits of someone else's labor without paying them; we just disagree on the level of level of which it's acceptable to take without paying.
 
2014-06-09 08:28:51 PM  

Penman: Every day, fewer and fewer customers enter my store to buy fewer and fewer CDs. Why is no one buying CDs? Are people not interested in music?

Bought my wife a new car (Kia Soul) that didn't come with a CD player at all.  The car comes with a USB port and can play MP3s right off a thumb drive.  Kids today generally have devices that play MP3s, not sure how many know what CDs are?  All my purchased CDs are in boxes in the garage, because it's just easier to deal with MP3s, even if I have to download them (ripping takes a lot of time).  I suppose I could sell the physical CDs for a few bucks, but I feel better knowing I did support the music that I enjoy.
 
2014-06-09 08:42:39 PM  

Jaden Smith First of His Name: But in my non-payment I've made a lot of other people money. I paid my ISP for the subscription to download at fast speeds. I paid for the electricity to run it. I ate some Sour Patch kids that are only a movie treat. Tom Cruise may get some theatrical release money out of me because Edge of Tomorrow was pretty good even on a Chinese cam. All in all I chipped into a lot of little pots for a thing I wasn't going to bother going to the theater for anyway.

Do you run an adblocker? Do you use a DVR to skip through commercials? If so, you're enjoying the fruits of someone else's labor without paying them; we just disagree on the level of level of which it's acceptable to take without paying.


Congrats on paying for your internet service and electric bill, which you would have had anyway, instead of mooching that, too.

We don't have a DVR.  We don't have cable.  We watch shows through their networks portals, when we can, or for a show like Orphan Black, we simply got a season pass through Amazon.

If we want to watch, or if we want to enjoy the fruits of anyone's labor,  we pay the price we need to.  $10 for a movie ticket, DVD, or downloadable file is nothing in the scheme of things, but it does mean you're not a mooch.  I respect other people's work the same way I want them to respect mine.
 
2014-06-09 08:48:12 PM  

weddingsinger: Jaden Smith First of His Name: But in my non-payment I've made a lot of other people money. I paid my ISP for the subscription to download at fast speeds. I paid for the electricity to run it. I ate some Sour Patch kids that are only a movie treat. Tom Cruise may get some theatrical release money out of me because Edge of Tomorrow was pretty good even on a Chinese cam. All in all I chipped into a lot of little pots for a thing I wasn't going to bother going to the theater for anyway.

Do you run an adblocker? Do you use a DVR to skip through commercials? If so, you're enjoying the fruits of someone else's labor without paying them; we just disagree on the level of level of which it's acceptable to take without paying.

Congrats on paying for your internet service and electric bill, which you would have had anyway, instead of mooching that, too.

We don't have a DVR.  We don't have cable.  We watch shows through their networks portals, when we can, or for a show like Orphan Black, we simply got a season pass through Amazon.

If we want to watch, or if we want to enjoy the fruits of anyone's labor,  we pay the price we need to.  $10 for a movie ticket, DVD, or downloadable file is nothing in the scheme of things, but it does mean you're not a mooch.  I respect other people's work the same way I want them to respect mine.


Are you running an adblocker?
 
2014-06-09 08:58:24 PM  
No.

DVRs are part of your television service, which you pay for.

I pay almost $200/mo for my cable service (all channels including premiums, multiple rooms, all HD DVRs, plus internet and phone). I'm not pirating anything, to any degree.
 
2014-06-09 09:22:16 PM  

ChadM89: I pay almost $200/mo for my cable service (all channels including premiums, multiple rooms, all HD DVRs, plus internet and phone). I'm not pirating anything, to any degree.


No, you're paying the distributor only with your subscription fee.

The  channels, the people that are providing the actual content, make most of their revenue from ads, in many cases  all of their revenue, the cable company pays them little to nothing.

If you use the DVR, distributor-provided or not, you're straight-up taking their content without paying for it.  Even after they went to all that work to localize the ads to be more potentially actually useful to you.

You pirate bastard.
 
2014-06-09 09:31:34 PM  

Jim_Callahan: If you use the DVR, distributor-provided or not, you're straight-up taking their content without paying for it. Even after they went to all that work to localize the ads to be more potentially actually useful to you.

You pirate bastard.


This is a false analogy. The ad buyers could never force you to watch (you could leave the room, or, like me, mute it and read) and you could legally access the content anyway. They pay for the possibility that you will see their ad and be persuaded.

With piracy, there is no legal way for you to access the content without payment.
 
2014-06-09 09:49:27 PM  

Penman: Why is no one buying CDs?


Because CDs are an increasingly obsolete and inconvenient technology, and you're not big enough to refuse to adapt. I don't use a buggy anymore, so you probably shouldn't biatch when I stop buying your whips.
 
2014-06-09 09:56:13 PM  

nmrsnr: Jim_Callahan: If you use the DVR, distributor-provided or not, you're straight-up taking their content without paying for it. Even after they went to all that work to localize the ads to be more potentially actually useful to you.

You pirate bastard.

This is a false analogy. The ad buyers could never force you to watch (you could leave the room, or, like me, mute it and read) and you could legally access the content anyway. They pay for the possibility that you will see their ad and be persuaded.

With piracy, there is no legal way for you to access the content without payment.


So it's allright if you are inconvenienced in some way shape or form?
 
2014-06-09 10:04:39 PM  

insertsnarkyusername: So it's allright if you are inconvenienced in some way shape or form?


Did I say anything remotely resembling that? I pointed out that his analogy of advertisers paying for content that is then delivered to you is different than content that you have to pay for yourself, because in no case were the ad buyers guaranteed your viewership, and pay for the content knowing that fact, as opposed to content providers expecting their viewers to pay, and having no other legal avenue of access.
 
2014-06-09 10:09:34 PM  

nmrsnr: insertsnarkyusername: So it's allright if you are inconvenienced in some way shape or form?

Did I say anything remotely resembling that? I pointed out that his analogy of advertisers paying for content that is then delivered to you is different than content that you have to pay for yourself, because in no case were the ad buyers guaranteed your viewership, and pay for the content knowing that fact, as opposed to content providers expecting their viewers to pay, and having no other legal avenue of access.


It's not penance. What does it matter if they had the chance if you never intended to view it to begin with?
 
2014-06-09 10:15:32 PM  

Jim_Callahan: ChadM89: I pay almost $200/mo for my cable service (all channels including premiums, multiple rooms, all HD DVRs, plus internet and phone). I'm not pirating anything, to any degree.

No, you're paying the distributor only with your subscription fee.

The  channels, the people that are providing the actual content, make most of their revenue from ads, in many cases  all of their revenue, the cable company pays them little to nothing.

If you use the DVR, distributor-provided or not, you're straight-up taking their content without paying for it.  Even after they went to all that work to localize the ads to be more potentially actually useful to you.

You pirate bastard.


Content providers knowingly provide their content to distributors with the understanding that DVRs exist and are being used. They supply the content regardless, willingly. They understand and agree that the end user can and often will use their DVRs to skip advertising.

What makes it piracy is that the source of the material has not given their consent for their product to be taken without payment.

There's a reason why downloading movies you haven't paid for is illegal but fast-forwarding commercials on your DVR is not, and arguing otherwise only makes you look like a fool. What did you think, that people in the thread were all going to read your nonsense and nod in agreement, incapable of the grade-school logic required to see that you have no idea what you're talking about? Jesus Christ.
 
2014-06-09 10:53:10 PM  

ghare: Khellendros: Because if everyone goes your way, there are no more shows.

Are you telling me that HBO is getting ready to go out of business?


No, I'm saying that everyone can't do that and have the art survive.  If they did, there would be no shows.  Neither you, nor any other asshole who pirates the show is special.  Their choice to cheat the system isn't "ok" because others are footing the bill.  If it's not a right choice ethically for everyone, then it's not ok for him because he feels entitled to check it out and not pay just because.

Pay your bit into the pool.  Whether that's pulling it through legitimate online channels and paying your couple of dollars, or watching the commercials they throw up there.  Whatever it is that they make their revenue from.  It's no prohibitive to get most shows today.  Same for music.  Pay your part and enjoy.
 
2014-06-09 11:05:53 PM  

Penman: Good for you on those sales numbers. I'm not saying that everybody found it not worth paying for, I'm saying maybe those that pirated it did. You are the one that seems rather desperate here. I don't find anything immoral with what I'm doing and the illegal part is not a deterrent when the law behind it is basically unenforceable.

As a record store owner, my business faces ruin. CD sales have dropped through the floor. People aren't buying half as many CDs as they did just a year ago. Revenue is down and costs are up. My store has survived for years, but I now face the prospect of bankruptcy. Every day I ask myself why this is happening.

I bought the store about 12 years ago. It was one of those boutique record stores that sell obscure, independent releases that no-one listens to, not even the people that buy them. I decided that to grow the business I'd need to aim for a different demographic, the family market. My store specialised in family music - stuff that the whole family could listen to. I don't sell sick stuff like Marilyn Manson or cop-killer rap, and I'm proud to have one of the most extensive Christian rock sections that I know of.

The business strategy worked. People flocked to my store, knowing that they (and their children) could safely purchase records without profanity or violent lyrics. Over the years I expanded the business and took on more clean-cut and friendly employees. It took hard work and long hours but I had achieved my dream - owning a profitable business that I had built with my own hands, from the ground up. But now, this dream is turning into a nightmare.

Every day, fewer and fewer customers enter my store to buy fewer and fewer CDs. Why is no one buying CDs? Are people not interested in music? Do people prefer to watch TV, see films, read books? I don't know. But there is one, inescapable truth - Internet piracy is mostly to blame. The statistics speak for themselves - one in three discs world wide is a pirate. On The Internet, yo ...


The only stuff I download are recs that are no longer in print, or records that were never officially released.  I buy a shiat ton of vinyl and cds (much to my gf's chagrin, as I'm running out of space).  There have been many times I've downloaded a record, it was rereleased, and I then bought the rerelease.  However, this is b/c I want the tangible object, the artwork, liner notes and all attached to the aural medium.  I prefer the analogue or the product more then the just the download, but if the former isn't available, I'll get the latter.

/remember  Tooth & Nail recs?
 
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