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(Uproxx)   This week in "Getting Smarter and Better at Cocktail Parties with John Oliver," Mr. Oliver takes FIFA to the woodshed just in time for The World Cup. Complete with Two Girls One Cup metaphor, of course   (uproxx.com) divider line 120
    More: Interesting, cocktail party, Fifa, World Cup  
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5546 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jun 2014 at 4:42 PM (12 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-09 03:30:17 PM
[PLUG] tag misspelled.

how much is Mr Oliver paying you guys?
 
2014-06-09 03:40:18 PM
More than Game of Thrones, this is tempting me to get an HBO subscription.
 
2014-06-09 04:46:46 PM
FIFA... Isn't that what you'd name a female French poodle?
 
2014-06-09 04:58:44 PM
"Bribery and FIFA go together like peanut butter and jelly"
 
2014-06-09 05:02:08 PM
Not to knock John Oliver, who I really enjoy, I can't understand his leaving the Daily Show for this knockoff.

While the bits I've seen are good, I think the Daily Show is much better and offered him greater exposure if not the seat behind the desk. And I suspect his total viewership is way down.
 
2014-06-09 05:05:16 PM
World Cup story apropos of nothing:

In the 90's when the World Cup came to Orlando, the Irish were having quite the time of it. One night at a downtown bar, when "last call" was announced, the Irish decided they weren't done partying yet. They forcibly ejected all the employees, taking their keys and locking the doors as they and everyone else inside went gangbusters.

The manager called the cops, who took one look and said "nope". They advised the manager to let them drink themselves silly until they were done, and submit a claim to the insurance company for damages the next day.

As it turns out though, the manager came in the next day with a spare set of keys to find the place immaculate. Everything was properly cleaned, mopped and wiped down, and the cash register was practically bursting with cash. Turns out they'd collected full price for every drink, got rid of any violent troublemakers, and cleaned up afterward. They even left a note of apology and thanks.

/CSB
 
2014-06-09 05:05:31 PM

RoyBatty: Not to knock John Oliver, who I really enjoy, I can't understand his leaving the Daily Show for this knockoff.


He gets his own show that is 100% his voice, and he gets to swear. I think it's great.
 
2014-06-09 05:06:27 PM
"That's huge for Jesus."

Awesome
 
2014-06-09 05:06:31 PM

RoyBatty: Not to knock John Oliver, who I really enjoy, I can't understand his leaving the Daily Show for this knockoff.

While the bits I've seen are good, I think the Daily Show is much better and offered him greater exposure if not the seat behind the desk. And I suspect his total viewership is way down.


You have to wonder.....

If Colbert leaving had been announced first, you figure Oliver would've been offered Colbert's spot. Then, if the HBO offer came, would he have taken it?
 
2014-06-09 05:06:52 PM
 
2014-06-09 05:07:14 PM

nmrsnr: More than Game of Thrones, this is tempting me to get an HBO subscription.


do you not understand how the internet works?
 
2014-06-09 05:07:16 PM

RoyBatty: Not to knock John Oliver, who I really enjoy, I can't understand his leaving the Daily Show for this knockoff.

While the bits I've seen are good, I think the Daily Show is much better and offered him greater exposure if not the seat behind the desk. And I suspect his total viewership is way down.


i'm guessing that all of a small pie is sometimes better than a tiny slice of a big pie.

/ the composer for a bunch of ingmar bergman films was asked why he didn't write for the symphony, and he said, why leave this small pond where I am the biggest fish, to be some small fish somewhere else?  not exactly applicable, but applicable enough.  for my low standards anyways.
 
2014-06-09 05:08:11 PM

SlothB77: [PLUG] tag misspelled.

how much is Mr Oliver paying you guys?


Less than Walking Dead, but more than Cosmos.
 
2014-06-09 05:08:38 PM

buckler: /CSB


I was in Paris for the start of the '98 World Cup. The first match was Scotland vs. Brazil. I remember all of the Brazilians were parading down the streets with banners and various musical instruments, and the Scots were all in the bars.
 
2014-06-09 05:12:32 PM

kidgenius: If Colbert leaving had been announced first, you figure Oliver would've been offered Colbert's spot. Then, if the HBO offer came, would he have taken it?


I think Oliver is great, but I don't think he could(or would want to) take over Colbert's conservative pundit schtick.
 
2014-06-09 05:14:03 PM

RoyBatty: Not to knock John Oliver, who I really enjoy, I can't understand his leaving the Daily Show for this knockoff.


There have been some key differences so far though. Like Oliver will do a full 10-15 minutes on one subject, a lot more focus on international news,  and he gets to criticize big corporations since the show isn't paid for with ad dollars.
 
2014-06-09 05:14:50 PM

nmrsnr: More than Game of Thrones, this is tempting me to get an HBO subscription.


It rhymes with "Irate Ray". I'd subscribe to HBO go if they offered it but they won't. Since I don't get cable HBO has sort of priced themselves out of the game. I'm not paying comcast 50 bucks a month plus whatever HBO costs so I can watch an hour and a half of programing a week.
 
2014-06-09 05:16:08 PM

some_beer_drinker: nmrsnr: More than Game of Thrones, this is tempting me to get an HBO subscription.

do you not understand how the internet works?


I gave up pirating a long time ago. Too much effort, too many viruses, and I don't have to try and not feel guilty through crappy justifications.
 
2014-06-09 05:16:42 PM

browntimmy: RoyBatty: Not to knock John Oliver, who I really enjoy, I can't understand his leaving the Daily Show for this knockoff.

There have been some key differences so far though. Like Oliver will do a full 10-15 minutes on one subject, a lot more focus on international news,  and he gets to criticize big corporations since the show isn't paid for with ad dollars.


So much this. Oliver has pulled no punches against GM and Comcast. It's refreshing to see unadulterated muckraking journalism for once.
 
2014-06-09 05:18:12 PM

browntimmy: RoyBatty: Not to knock John Oliver, who I really enjoy, I can't understand his leaving the Daily Show for this knockoff.

There have been some key differences so far though. Like Oliver will do a full 10-15 minutes on one subject, a lot more focus on international news,  and he gets to criticize big corporations since the show isn't paid for with ad dollars.


I see that. I guess my disappointment is that the two shows are so similar in format and tone, so I don't see this as a lot of growth for Oliver, or for us.

Don't ask me what I wanted, but I was just hoping for something different.
 
2014-06-09 05:19:41 PM

nmrsnr: some_beer_drinker: nmrsnr: More than Game of Thrones, this is tempting me to get an HBO subscription.

do you not understand how the internet works?

I gave up pirating a long time ago. Too much effort, too many viruses, and I don't have to try and not feel guilty through crappy justifications.


I've never understood why people feel guilty for pirating.
 
2014-06-09 05:19:58 PM

beer4breakfast: kidgenius: If Colbert leaving had been announced first, you figure Oliver would've been offered Colbert's spot. Then, if the HBO offer came, would he have taken it?

I think Oliver is great, but I don't think he could(or would want to) take over Colbert's conservative pundit schtick.


Why would he take over the schtick?  We're just talking about the spot.  Do you think Larry Wilmore is going to do the conservative derp character when he takes over the spot?
 
2014-06-09 05:19:59 PM
I have to say... Every time I see something by John Oliver.... I learn something...
 
2014-06-09 05:20:08 PM

beer4breakfast: kidgenius: If Colbert leaving had been announced first, you figure Oliver would've been offered Colbert's spot. Then, if the HBO offer came, would he have taken it?

I think Oliver is great, but I don't think he could(or would want to) take over Colbert's conservative pundit schtick.


He met his wife at a GOP convention. Dunno how well that'd end.
 
2014-06-09 05:20:44 PM

insertsnarkyusername: I've never understood why people feel guilty for pirating.


Same reason people feel guilty for shoplifting.
 
2014-06-09 05:21:54 PM

nmrsnr: some_beer_drinker: nmrsnr: More than Game of Thrones, this is tempting me to get an HBO subscription.

do you not understand how the internet works?

I gave up pirating a long time ago. Too much effort, too many viruses, and I don't have to try and not feel guilty through crappy justifications.


eztv.it

never had a virus.
 
2014-06-09 05:22:43 PM
in fact, i am watching it now.
 
2014-06-09 05:23:31 PM

insertsnarkyusername: I've never understood why people feel guilty for pirating.


Because if you're being entertained by the show, you should probably be compensating the creators and talent somehow?  I'm not saying you should be required to have cable and support that structure, but you should at least be throwing a bit into the pot per episode, or watching commercials.  Something.

Because if everyone goes your way, there are no more shows.
 
2014-06-09 05:24:53 PM

shower_in_my_socks: insertsnarkyusername: I've never understood why people feel guilty for pirating.

Same reason people feel guilty for shoplifting.


Those aren't even remotely the same thing. If I shoplift say a 6 pack of beer that's one thing it's lost inventory that the store is out money on. If I could sit at home and magically make a copy of that 6 pack appear in front of me nothing is lost and nobody has been harmed.
 
2014-06-09 05:30:25 PM

insertsnarkyusername: I've never understood why people feel guilty for pirating.


Because the people who made the content didn't do it out of the goodness of their heart, they did it to make money, if I want to enjoy their service, I should pay something. If you don't, that either means you are disincentivizing the creation of more content that you like, or you are inflating the cost for other people to pay for your share.

I never understood why people don't feel any guilt over pirating.
 
2014-06-09 05:31:14 PM

nmrsnr: More than Game of Thrones, this is tempting me to get an HBO subscription.


Why?  When you can just watch it the next day on Fark for free?
 
2014-06-09 05:32:03 PM

insertsnarkyusername: shower_in_my_socks: insertsnarkyusername: I've never understood why people feel guilty for pirating.

Same reason people feel guilty for shoplifting.

Those aren't even remotely the same thing. If I shoplift say a 6 pack of beer that's one thing it's lost inventory that the store is out money on. If I could sit at home and magically make a copy of that 6 pack appear in front of me nothing is lost and nobody has been harmed.


That is absolute bullshiat. I'm an independent filmmaker with four documentaries in distribution. The first film that I made was self-distributed for the first few months before we found a distributor. I put it out on Amazon myself. Within days, it was already ripped and on the torrent sites. I found message boards where people were requesting a ripped version of it for them to download. It was RIGHT THERE on Amazon for them to buy - reasonably priced, and streaming, even, if they didn't want a disk. But why do that when they can just grab it for free? Those @ssholes STOLE MONEY FROM ME. Period. All of my films are self-funded. You're talking to a Farker who had money taken out of his pocket by this shiat, so don't try to defend it.
 
2014-06-09 05:32:30 PM

some_beer_drinker: nmrsnr: More than Game of Thrones, this is tempting me to get an HBO subscription.

do you not understand how the internet works?


Or, he could choose to subscribe to the service to show them how much he liked their content.
 
2014-06-09 05:34:45 PM

insertsnarkyusername: shower_in_my_socks: insertsnarkyusername: I've never understood why people feel guilty for pirating.

Same reason people feel guilty for shoplifting.

Those aren't even remotely the same thing. If I shoplift say a 6 pack of beer that's one thing it's lost inventory that the store is out money on. If I could sit at home and magically make a copy of that 6 pack appear in front of me nothing is lost and nobody has been harmed.


it's not good enough that the beer is still in the store and people still buy it there. they want ALL the money.
 
2014-06-09 05:35:14 PM

nmrsnr: Because the people who made the content didn't do it out of the goodness of their heart


He thinks the only consideration is inventory. If it's not a disk on a shelf that cost a store money to buy wholesale, then there is no loss. He completely ignores 50% of the issue.
 
2014-06-09 05:37:01 PM

nmrsnr: insertsnarkyusername: I've never understood why people feel guilty for pirating.

Because the people who made the content didn't do it out of the goodness of their heart, they did it to make money, if I want to enjoy their service, I should pay something. If you don't, that either means you are disincentivizing the creation of more content that you like, or you are inflating the cost for other people to pay for your share.

I never understood why people don't feel any guilt over pirating.


The way to combat piracy is to offer a better service for a reasonable price. Steam and GOG stopped all my video game pirating years ago by being easier, safer and reasonably priced. I subscribe to Netflix and Amazon prime and I'd subscribe to HBO Go if that was available to me. With HBO my options are to get cable and pay 60 bucks a month for a mostly useless service, not watch anything or pay 60 bucks for a season of game of thrones after it comes out. And you are right, they don't do this out of the goodness of their hearts and they are well compensated for their efforts so why should I give a shiat if they don't get a sale they weren't going to get anyway? It's a business that doesn't give a shiat about it's consumers. Why is it my responsibility to care about them?
 
2014-06-09 05:38:57 PM

insertsnarkyusername: why should I give a shiat if they don't get a sale they weren't going to get anyway?


Yeah, steal some DVDs from Walmart, and when they catch you, just tell them "Hey, I was never going to pay for this anyway." They'll totally understand. But I get it, "Greedy corporations! Blah blah blah."
 
2014-06-09 05:40:22 PM

shower_in_my_socks: insertsnarkyusername: shower_in_my_socks: insertsnarkyusername: I've never understood why people feel guilty for pirating.

Same reason people feel guilty for shoplifting.

Those aren't even remotely the same thing. If I shoplift say a 6 pack of beer that's one thing it's lost inventory that the store is out money on. If I could sit at home and magically make a copy of that 6 pack appear in front of me nothing is lost and nobody has been harmed.

That is absolute bullshiat. I'm an independent filmmaker with four documentaries in distribution. The first film that I made was self-distributed for the first few months before we found a distributor. I put it out on Amazon myself. Within days, it was already ripped and on the torrent sites. I found message boards where people were requesting a ripped version of it for them to download. It was RIGHT THERE on Amazon for them to buy - reasonably priced, and streaming, even, if they didn't want a disk. But why do that when they can just grab it for free? Those @ssholes STOLE MONEY FROM ME. Period. All of my films are self-funded. You're talking to a Farker who had money taken out of his pocket by this shiat, so don't try to defend it.


They didn't steal from you, they found your work not worth the money you were charging or they weren't sure and wanted to check it out. Plus you are talking about a group of people who probably just download all of their entertainment from that site. You didn't lose sales, you gained viewers.
 
2014-06-09 05:40:36 PM

insertsnarkyusername: It's a business that doesn't give a shiat about it's consumers. Why is it my responsibility to care about them?


You don't get to choose which laws you do and don't obey based on moral objectives to how various businesses operate.
 
2014-06-09 05:42:51 PM

insertsnarkyusername: They didn't steal from you, they found your work not worth the money you were charging or they weren't sure and wanted to check it out.


YOU DO NOT KNOW THAT. How do you know which percentage of them would have paid had there been no other option? You don't. That film has sold something like 200,000 DVDs, so yes, people found it worth paying for. You're just desperately spinning to justify your own immoral and illegal behavior.
 
2014-06-09 05:43:54 PM

shower_in_my_socks: You don't get to choose which laws you do and don't obey based on moral objectives to how various businesses operate.


Like I said "crappy justifications." I used them myself, because saying "I'm stealing this because I don't want to pay for it, but I do still want to see it." makes you sound like a dick.
 
2014-06-09 05:46:30 PM
Oh, but I really didn't mean to threadjack, so back on point:

John Oliver is awesome. FIFA is comically villainous. And I'm excited for the World Cup.
 
2014-06-09 05:47:08 PM

pute kisses like a man: RoyBatty: Not to knock John Oliver, who I really enjoy, I can't understand his leaving the Daily Show for this knockoff.

While the bits I've seen are good, I think the Daily Show is much better and offered him greater exposure if not the seat behind the desk. And I suspect his total viewership is way down.

i'm guessing that all of a small pie is sometimes better than a tiny slice of a big pie.

/ the composer for a bunch of ingmar bergman films was asked why he didn't write for the symphony, and he said, why leave this small pond where I am the biggest fish, to be some small fish somewhere else?  not exactly applicable, but applicable enough.  for my low standards anyways.


All of that, plus Oliver seems to be doing all the stories that Stewart and Colbert don't, not that they won't touch them but just there are so many stories they can't cover them all.  He gets to cover topics that nobody else does, at least in this way, and say some things on the topic few others do.  Even if it's just a Daily Show knock-off (which I don't totally agree with) he isn't going over the same material.  He's providing new content, and rather insightful content at that.

Also, he really can do some things other shows just plain can't because he's on HBO.  Being on a premium channel means there is almost literally no topic he cannot cover, no boundary he can't cross save for ones of legality.  Even though it's a comedy news program, he has more journalistic freedom than almost any other source of news out there short of blogs, and many of those are notoriously lacking in the "journalistic integrity" category.

Bottom line: I think the reason why it stands apart is because there's a surprising amount of journalism mixed in with this comedy, and Oliver is taking full advantage of the platform he's been given.

nmrsnr: insertsnarkyusername: I've never understood why people feel guilty for pirating.

Because the people who made the content didn't do it out of the goodness of their heart, they did it to make money, if I want to enjoy their service, I should pay something. If you don't, that either means you are disincentivizing the creation of more content that you like, or you are inflating the cost for other people to pay for your share.

I never understood why people don't feel any guilt over pirating.


The short version is that many people do view it as a largely victimless crime, because in many cases they wouldn't (or couldn't) have paid for the content to begin with.  If there were only X copies of the show to go around and pirating it used up one of those copies, then people would probably hesitate more.  As it is, they're taking something that someone has a literally infinite supply of, so it's not stealing.  Which is, technically, true, but that doesn't make it actually victimless.

Alright, since most of us in this thread are probably familiar with HBO shows, think back to the very first episode of Deadwood.  Seth Bullock and Sol Star are setting up their hardware store, trying to sell wares.  As they're pitching their items to people some dude comes by with a bar of soap that he purchased from nearby, breaks it open and is "surprised" to find money inside, making a big show of it.  Seth of course gets wise to the scheme and tells the guy to beat it lest he break his head open.  In that example, HBO is Seth and Sol, and the pirates are that douchebag with the soap.  Yeah, sure, they aren't stealing goods directly, but what they're doing sure as hell isn't something you should feel good about.
 
2014-06-09 05:47:44 PM

RoyBatty: Not to knock John Oliver, who I really enjoy, I can't understand his leaving the Daily Show for this knockoff.

While the bits I've seen are good, I think the Daily Show is much better and offered him greater exposure if not the seat behind the desk. And I suspect his total viewership is way down.


I don't know how long his show is, but it's refreshing to see these 13-minute exposes, while TDS seems to have to crunch everything into shorter segments, which makes them seem rushed and incomplete.
 
2014-06-09 05:50:46 PM

nmrsnr: shower_in_my_socks: You don't get to choose which laws you do and don't obey based on moral objectives to how various businesses operate.

Like I said "crappy justifications." I used them myself, because saying "I'm stealing this because I don't want to pay for it, but I do still want to see it." makes you sound like a dick.


Right. Like, I have more respect for the homeless guy whose sign says he just wants beer money. People should at least man up and cop to what they're doing rather than making lame excuses.
 
2014-06-09 05:51:59 PM

Nix Nightbird: FIFA... Isn't that what you'd name a female French poodle?


parley vous a humma humma?
 
2014-06-09 05:53:05 PM

lostcat: RoyBatty: Not to knock John Oliver, who I really enjoy, I can't understand his leaving the Daily Show for this knockoff.

While the bits I've seen are good, I think the Daily Show is much better and offered him greater exposure if not the seat behind the desk. And I suspect his total viewership is way down.

I don't know how long his show is, but it's refreshing to see these 13-minute exposes, while TDS seems to have to crunch everything into shorter segments, which makes them seem rushed and incomplete.


one of the freedoms of non commercial programming.
 
2014-06-09 05:53:26 PM

shower_in_my_socks: insertsnarkyusername: They didn't steal from you, they found your work not worth the money you were charging or they weren't sure and wanted to check it out.

YOU DO NOT KNOW THAT. How do you know which percentage of them would have paid had there been no other option? You don't. That film has sold something like 200,000 DVDs, so yes, people found it worth paying for. You're just desperately spinning to justify your own immoral and illegal behavior.


Good for you on those sales numbers. I'm not saying that everybody found it not worth paying for, I'm saying maybe those that pirated it did. You are the one that seems rather desperate here. I don't find anything immoral with what I'm doing and the illegal part is not a deterrent when the law behind it is basically unenforceable.
 
2014-06-09 05:54:30 PM

yukichigai: Bottom line: I think the reason why it stands apart is because there's a surprising amount of journalism mixed in with this comedy, and Oliver is taking full advantage of the platform he's been given.


yeah he doesn't have to worry about offending a sponsor.
 
2014-06-09 05:54:39 PM

RoyBatty: Not to knock John Oliver, who I really enjoy, I can't understand his leaving the Daily Show for this knockoff.

While the bits I've seen are good, I think the Daily Show is much better and offered him greater exposure if not the seat behind the desk. And I suspect his total viewership is way down.


He can say whatever he wants about anything. No sponsors or advertising partners to offend. That's why Bill maher loves hbo.
 
2014-06-09 05:55:55 PM

Hobodeluxe: yukichigai: Bottom line: I think the reason why it stands apart is because there's a surprising amount of journalism mixed in with this comedy, and Oliver is taking full advantage of the platform he's been given.

yeah he doesn't have to worry about offending a sponsor.


*shakes fist* lol.
 
2014-06-09 05:56:13 PM
Right Said Fred put on a good show. well done.
 
2014-06-09 06:00:52 PM

insertsnarkyusername: You didn't lose sales, you gained viewers.


in the absence of sponsors and advertising dollars, viewers are insignificant.

you didn't lose sales, you just shrank the market, because now there are people who will never purchase the product.  so, i guess you could say, you did lose sales.
 
2014-06-09 06:02:03 PM
Good for you on those sales numbers. I'm not saying that everybody found it not worth paying for, I'm saying maybe those that pirated it did. You are the one that seems rather desperate here. I don't find anything immoral with what I'm doing and the illegal part is not a deterrent when the law behind it is basically unenforceable.

As a record store owner, my business faces ruin. CD sales have dropped through the floor. People aren't buying half as many CDs as they did just a year ago. Revenue is down and costs are up. My store has survived for years, but I now face the prospect of bankruptcy. Every day I ask myself why this is happening.

I bought the store about 12 years ago. It was one of those boutique record stores that sell obscure, independent releases that no-one listens to, not even the people that buy them. I decided that to grow the business I'd need to aim for a different demographic, the family market. My store specialised in family music - stuff that the whole family could listen to. I don't sell sick stuff like Marilyn Manson or cop-killer rap, and I'm proud to have one of the most extensive Christian rock sections that I know of.

The business strategy worked. People flocked to my store, knowing that they (and their children) could safely purchase records without profanity or violent lyrics. Over the years I expanded the business and took on more clean-cut and friendly employees. It took hard work and long hours but I had achieved my dream - owning a profitable business that I had built with my own hands, from the ground up. But now, this dream is turning into a nightmare.

Every day, fewer and fewer customers enter my store to buy fewer and fewer CDs. Why is no one buying CDs? Are people not interested in music? Do people prefer to watch TV, see films, read books? I don't know. But there is one, inescapable truth - Internet piracy is mostly to blame. The statistics speak for themselves - one in three discs world wide is a pirate. On The Internet, you can find and download hundreds of dollars worth of music in just minutes. It has the potential to destroy the music industry, from artists, to record companies to stores like my own. Before you point to the supposed "economic downturn", I'll note that the book store just across from my store is doing great business. Unlike CDs, it's harder to copy books over The Internet.

A week ago, an unpleasant experience with pirates gave me an idea. In my store, I overheard a teenage patron talking to his friend.

"Dude, I'm going to put this CD on the Internet right away."

"Yeah, dude, that's really lete [sic], you'll get lots of respect."

I was fuming. So they were out to destroy the record industry from right under my nose? Fat chance. When they came to the counter to make their purchase, I grabbed the little shiat by his shirt. "So...you're going to copy this to your friends over The Internet, punk?" I asked him in my best Clint Eastwood/Dirty Harry voice.

"Uh y-yeh." He mumbled, shocked.

"That's it. What's your name? You're blacklisted. Now take yourself and your little biatch friend out of my store - and don't come back." I barked. Cravenly, they complied and scampered off.

So that's my idea - a national blacklist of pirates. If somebody cannot obey the basic rules of society, then they should be excluded from society. If pirates want to steal from the music industry, then the music industry should exclude them. It's that simple. One strike, and you're out - no reputable record store will allow you to buy another CD. If the pirates can't buy the CDS to begin with, then they won't be able to copy them over The Internet, will they? It's no different to doctors blacklisting drug dealers from buying prescription medicine.

I have just written a letter to the RIAA outlining my proposal. Suing pirates one by one isn't going far enough. Not to mention pirates use the fact that they're being sued to unfairly portray themselves as victims. A national register of pirates would make the problem far easier to deal with. People would be encouraged to give the names of suspected pirates to a hotline, similar to TIPS. Once we know the size of the problem, the police and other law enforcement agencies will be forced to take piracy seriously. They have fought the War on Drugs with skill, so why not the War on Piracy?

This evening, my daughters asked me. "Why do the other kids laugh at us?"

I wanted to tell them the truth - it's because they wear old clothes and have cheap haircuts. I can't afford anything better for them right now.

"It's because they are idiots, kids", I told them. "Don't listen to them."

When the kids went to bed, my wife asked me, "Will we be able to keep the house, David?"

I just shook my head, and tried to hold back the tears. "I don't know, Jenny. I don't know."

When my girls ask me questions like that, I feel like my heart is being wrenched out of my chest. But knowing that I'm doing the best I can to save my family and my business is some consolation.

Some people are offended by my blacklist system. I may have made my store less popular for pirates and sympathisers, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make to save my industry from destruction. I am inspired by artists such as Metallica that have taken a stand against the powerful pirate lobby. When everyone believes 2 + 2 = 5, to simply state the truth, that 2 + 2 = 4, is a courageous act.
 
2014-06-09 06:03:27 PM

insertsnarkyusername: They didn't steal from you, they found your work not worth the money you were charging or they weren't sure and wanted to check it out. Plus you are talking about a group of people who probably just download all of their entertainment from that site. You didn't lose sales, you gained viewers.


Just out of curiosity, do you routinely sneak into movie theaters? Do you a problem with those that do?
 
2014-06-09 06:05:48 PM

insertsnarkyusername: shower_in_my_socks: insertsnarkyusername: shower_in_my_socks: insertsnarkyusername: I've never understood why people feel guilty for pirating.

Same reason people feel guilty for shoplifting.

Those aren't even remotely the same thing. If I shoplift say a 6 pack of beer that's one thing it's lost inventory that the store is out money on. If I could sit at home and magically make a copy of that 6 pack appear in front of me nothing is lost and nobody has been harmed.

That is absolute bullshiat. I'm an independent filmmaker with four documentaries in distribution. The first film that I made was self-distributed for the first few months before we found a distributor. I put it out on Amazon myself. Within days, it was already ripped and on the torrent sites. I found message boards where people were requesting a ripped version of it for them to download. It was RIGHT THERE on Amazon for them to buy - reasonably priced, and streaming, even, if they didn't want a disk. But why do that when they can just grab it for free? Those @ssholes STOLE MONEY FROM ME. Period. All of my films are self-funded. You're talking to a Farker who had money taken out of his pocket by this shiat, so don't try to defend it.

They didn't steal from you, they found your work not worth the money you were charging or they weren't sure and wanted to check it out. Plus you are talking about a group of people who probably just download all of their entertainment from that site. You didn't lose sales, you gained viewers.


It's the content creator's right to make the choice of how they go about distributing that content (ie greater revenue generation or viewership), not yours. Stop being such a whiny, self entitled d-bag and pay for the stuff you watch.
 
2014-06-09 06:06:17 PM
You are just a common thief, plain and simple.  Own it.  BTW I am not saying I have never done the same thing or wouldn't again but the mental gymnastics some folks go through to rationalize/defend  their behavior cracks me up.
 
2014-06-09 06:09:29 PM
I'm amazed that this is the clip of John Oliver we're seeing today and not Right Said Fred taking down Assad.

The difference between Oliver's show and the Daily Show is that the Daily has to talk about the biggest American news stories, and does so almost every day. Oliver brings you (take downs of the) news that you don't normally even hear about in the USA, exposes corruption and hypocrisy all over the world instead of just here, and can be smarter about it because he's on premium cable and doesn't have to worry about advertisers or lowest common denominator appeal.

It's like the BBC World version of the Daily Show. I wish it was 60 minutes long.
 
2014-06-09 06:10:21 PM

Khellendros: Because if everyone goes your way, there are no more shows.


Are you telling me that HBO is getting ready to go out of business?
 
2014-06-09 06:12:38 PM

Double-oh Steven: It's like the BBC World version of the Daily Show. I wish it was 60 minutes long.


I may go to an hour-long show in the future.  HBO's contract with Oliver specifically includes an option to expand the show's length if both parties are open to it, and judging by the reception and how much fun Oliver seems to be having, I'd say it's a fair bet they might.
 
2014-06-09 06:13:25 PM

Penman: Some people are offended by my blacklist system. I may have made my store less popular for pirates and sympathisers, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make to save my industry from destruction. I am inspired by artists such as Metallica that have taken a stand against the powerful pirate lobby. When everyone believes 2 + 2 = 5, to simply state the truth, that 2 + 2 = 4, is a courageous act.


so someone was going to purchase the stuff and not download it and you stopped them? lol. you do realize that they'll just go d/l it for free right? all you did was remove one sale from the equation. and possibly more.
 
2014-06-09 06:14:14 PM
Wow, this thread got derailed big time.

Anyway, John Oliver's show is awesome. I love The Daily Show, but Last Week Tonight has more freedom and it shows, making it far more biting than I think The Daily Show is allowed to be. As others have said, Oliver doesn't have to answer to anyone, and he can curse. And since I don't really follow soccer, I learned just how corrupt the FIFA is, something I don't think would be covered on TDS.
 
2014-06-09 06:16:27 PM

BeerLion: You are just a common thief, plain and simple.  Own it.  BTW I am not saying I have never done the same thing or wouldn't again but the mental gymnastics some folks go through to rationalize/defend  their behavior cracks me up.


the labels need to make their money from the tours. the ability to record something once and make tens of millions off of it (or more) is really expecting too much for the amount of work and effort provided. especially since the actual artists only get a small fraction of the action.
 
2014-06-09 06:17:16 PM

nmrsnr: I never understood why people don't feel any guilt over pirating.


Because the distributors are intentionally neglecting demonstrably profitable monetization methods that are somewhat consumer-friendly in favor of one so consumer-unfriendly that it amounts to a price-fixing scheme?

I imagine pirating HBO shows is sort of like out-cheating someone at poker when they were playing with a marked deck to begin with, there's a certain quantity of satisfaction involved in cheating someone of 5$ a month of value when they were trying to cheat you for 150.

// Technically a pirate, since "my" cable line/DVR is shared with all 100ish people in the building, as is the TV.  If you've ever watched the TV with more than 3 people, you're probably violating your ToS and are a dirty pirate, too.  Having friends is illegal, you bastard!
 
2014-06-09 06:19:40 PM

insertsnarkyusername: shower_in_my_socks: insertsnarkyusername: I've never understood why people feel guilty for pirating.

Same reason people feel guilty for shoplifting.

Those aren't even remotely the same thing. If I shoplift say a 6 pack of beer that's one thing it's lost inventory that the store is out money on. If I could sit at home and magically make a copy of that 6 pack appear in front of me nothing is lost and nobody has been harmed.


See, and here I thought that theft was as simple as taking something that wasn't yours. As long as it doesn't change the bottom line, it's not really theft, huh? Awesome!!
So, as nmrsnr asked, do you also sneak into movie theaters? Or do you see a problem with that?
By your logic, is it ok to dabble in a bit of in-store employee theft, since that loss is routinely already figured into the cost of doing business?
By your logic, if I break into a business, and take stuff that doesn't belong to me, if the company is fully compensated by their insurance company for their financial loss, does that mean I'm not a thief?
 
2014-06-09 06:21:19 PM

Hobodeluxe: Penman: Some people are offended by my blacklist system. I may have made my store less popular for pirates and sympathisers, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make to save my industry from destruction. I am inspired by artists such as Metallica that have taken a stand against the powerful pirate lobby. When everyone believes 2 + 2 = 5, to simply state the truth, that 2 + 2 = 4, is a courageous act.

so someone was going to purchase the stuff and not download it and you stopped them? lol. you do realize that they'll just go d/l it for free right? all you did was remove one sale from the equation. and possibly more.


Dude. Guy is trolling. Don't feed it. Also, it was a lame story.
 
2014-06-09 06:24:14 PM

Khellendros: insertsnarkyusername: I've never understood why people feel guilty for pirating.

Because if you're being entertained by the show, you should probably be compensating the creators and talent somehow?  I'm not saying you should be required to have cable and support that structure, but you should at least be throwing a bit into the pot per episode, or watching commercials.  Something.

Because if everyone goes your way, there are no more shows.


I don't have cable.  And couldn't even get it until a month ago (new building) and I'm on the wrong side of the building for a satellite dish (don't get me started about my last experience with DirecTV).  How can I compensate the "creators" and "talent" (using both terms loosely) when I'm given no opportunity to do so?  Its time for these assholes to grow up and offer real choice to consumers.  But I doubt it will happen.

/NBC pulled the same shiat on the olympics
 
2014-06-09 06:25:02 PM

Hobodeluxe: Penman: Some people are offended by my blacklist system. I may have made my store less popular for pirates and sympathisers, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make to save my industry from destruction. I am inspired by artists such as Metallica that have taken a stand against the powerful pirate lobby. When everyone believes 2 + 2 = 5, to simply state the truth, that 2 + 2 = 4, is a courageous act.

so someone was going to purchase the stuff and not download it and you stopped them? lol. you do realize that they'll just go d/l it for free right? all you did was remove one sale from the equation. and possibly more.


If you believe any of that story, I'm Nigerian royalty and you can help me move $20,000,000 from my home country to yours.
 
2014-06-09 06:26:53 PM
I was in France for 98, and was in Lyon for the Scotland game (I think they were in St. Etienne).  I honestly don't remember a lot over that couple of days.  I remember my local took out the glass and brought in plastic cups (wise move in retrospect).  I do know I was so drunk that I felt it for days afterward, even without alcohol.  I did vomit, profusely, and was encouraged to keep drinking.  I remember getting blown by a Scottish brunette named Wanda while smoking a cigar.  I say "remember" but truth is I don't--there is photographic evidence, because she did it in the back pool room.  I have no idea if I came.  And probably most importantly, I remember one song we sang over and over.

"There's only one Wayne Rooney.
There's only one Wayne Rooney.
With a packet of sweets and a cheeky smile,
Rooney is a farking pedophile."

I found out later the next week, I made an international phone call home to my parents in Florida, and the entire bar sang that song.

On a more humbling note, I have to admit that after watching that video...Jesus, I feel farking educated about FIFA.  I mean, I knew Qatar bribed the fark out of them, anyone with half a brain could figure that out.  But the rest...just farking wow.
 
2014-06-09 06:27:36 PM
once upon a time labels would pay money to the djs and program managers to play their music and share it for free over the airwaves. back then kids listened to the radio and taped the songs onto a cassette and shared with their friends. and the artists' fanbase grew because of it. and the people bought tickets to see them live. and if you were good enough they would come to see you the rest of your life and you had a great life doing what you loved and getting paid good money for it.

same thing happens today only digitally and over the internet. I think it speaks to a grand sense of entitlement that labels and/or artists think that just because they made one good recording that they should make tens of millions off of the sales of that recording. now they have every legal right to that money. the corporations have made sure of that. they've spent a lot of money to make sure of it. but if I were them I wouldn't begrudge a fan if they spread my music around. Heck they may make me more fans who buy tickets to my shows. who spread it around and grow my fan base even more.
 
2014-06-09 06:30:24 PM

Jesus Farking Christ: I was in France for 98, and was in Lyon for the Scotland game (I think they were in St. Etienne).  I honestly don't remember a lot over that couple of days.  I remember my local took out the glass and brought in plastic cups (wise move in retrospect).  I do know I was so drunk that I felt it for days afterward, even without alcohol.  I did vomit, profusely, and was encouraged to keep drinking.  I remember getting blown by a Scottish brunette named Wanda while smoking a cigar.  I say "remember" but truth is I don't--there is photographic evidence, because she did it in the back pool room.  I have no idea if I came.  And probably most importantly, I remember one song we sang over and over.

"There's only one Wayne Rooney.
There's only one Wayne Rooney.
With a packet of sweets and a cheeky smile,
Rooney is a farking pedophile."

I found out later the next week, I made an international phone call home to my parents in Florida, and the entire bar sang that song.

On a more humbling note, I have to admit that after watching that video...Jesus, I feel farking educated about FIFA.  I mean, I knew Qatar bribed the fark out of them, anyone with half a brain could figure that out.  But the rest...just farking wow.


the NCAA is just as bad
 
2014-06-09 06:42:12 PM

Penman: They have fought the War on Drugs with skill, so why not the War on Piracy?


LOL, you almost had me till this.
 
2014-06-09 06:45:06 PM

insertsnarkyusername: I've never understood why people feel guilty for pirating.


Have you ever had a job where you felt your boss wasn't paying you enough for your level of work?
Ever worked for yourself and had a client try to not pay all they owed?
Ever waiting tables, worked your ass off for one, and they stiff you on the tip, or worse, the whole bill?

Pirating is a selfish act.  It denies compensation to those who create something.  True to any selfish act, if too many people also participate, the burden gets unfairly put upon those who do pay, who now have to pay a larger share,  until the entire system collapses.

Of course, the common put back to that is, I'd pay if they made something worth paying for, which is total bullshiat.  If it's worth pirating/watching/playing, then it's obviously worth paying for, since you felt it was valuable enough to go get.  You are entertained by something, thus it has value, and you should pay for it.  The same way you expect others to pay for the things you create.
 
2014-06-09 06:47:12 PM

nmrsnr: some_beer_drinker: nmrsnr: More than Game of Thrones, this is tempting me to get an HBO subscription.

do you not understand how the internet works?

I gave up pirating a long time ago. Too much effort, too many viruses, and I don't have to try and not feel guilty through crappy justifications.


It's been 10+ years since I got any malware, let alone a full blown virus, through torrenting. It's not like it was back in the day.  I personally don't really do it much, a movie once every few months that's on Netflix but only on the DVD side, or similar.
 
2014-06-09 06:52:27 PM

Penman: Why is no one buying CDs?


I'm not buying CDs because a lot of music I like isn't even available on CD, and if it is, it's usually a lot more expensive than AmazonMP3 or Bandcamp.  Admittedly, most of the stuff like isn't very popular and comes from other countries.

For an extreme example, this is $6.99 on AmazonMP3 or $33.11 for a CD directly from Amazon, or $17 plus from third party sellers. The band is Embrace of Disharmony, symphonic/avant-garde/progressive/female fronted metal from Italy
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JF2F3KQ/ref=dm_ws_ps_cdp?ie=UTF8 &q id=1402352561&s=music&sr=8-1

For popular artists, I would guess it's because you can buy singles off the internet.  Many unsophisticated music listeners don't want to listen to full albums, and others may view think the album is loaded with filler.  Bandcamp claims that on other sites, singles outsell albums 16 to 1.
 
2014-06-09 06:54:17 PM

lostcat: I don't know how long his show is, but it's refreshing to see these 13-minute exposes, while TDS seems to have to crunch everything into shorter segments, which makes them seem rushed and incomplete.


Agreed.  Some of Stewart's best work on the Daily Show was his extended crusade to get 9-11 First Responders health care covered.
 
2014-06-09 07:01:01 PM

shower_in_my_socks: You don't get to choose which laws you do and don't obey based on moral objectives to how various businesses operate.


I don't pirate but this statement pissed me off. We all get to choose which laws we obey and which we don't. No law is moral and just simply because it is a law.  Anybody who uses, 'because it's the law.' as justification for their actions isn't adult enough to be let out of the house unsupervised.
 
2014-06-09 07:15:49 PM

weddingsinger: Pirating is a selfish act. It denies compensation to those who create something. True to any selfish act, if too many people also participate, the burden gets unfairly put upon those who do pay, who now have to pay a larger share, until the entire system collapses.


But if those people were never going to buy or watch legally in the first place it's not a lost sale. If I go to a museum and see a Van Gogh I like, and print it out later on a 3D printer, it's not like the market for Van Gogh purchasers has gone down because I was never going to buy one in the first place. I've watched a few cam-rip movies in the past few weeks because they were things I was never going to see in the theater in the first place, and I may just go see one of them in the theater because the movie was much better than I thought it would be. In that sense piracy may add a sale that didn't exist beforehand.
 
2014-06-09 07:22:53 PM

Egoy3k: shower_in_my_socks: You don't get to choose which laws you do and don't obey based on moral objectives to how various businesses operate.

I don't pirate but this statement pissed me off. We all get to choose which laws we obey and which we don't. No law is moral and just simply because it is a law.  Anybody who uses, 'because it's the law.' as justification for their actions isn't adult enough to be let out of the house unsupervised.


this.

that seemed to be my parents justification for everything. because it's the law. why? because it is. that's all.

wtf? who programmed you to be a feedback loop?
 
2014-06-09 07:24:45 PM
Linking to Uproxx instead of the original youtube video makes me a sad panda.
 
2014-06-09 07:41:25 PM

nmrsnr: insertsnarkyusername: They didn't steal from you, they found your work not worth the money you were charging or they weren't sure and wanted to check it out. Plus you are talking about a group of people who probably just download all of their entertainment from that site. You didn't lose sales, you gained viewers.

Just out of curiosity, do you routinely sneak into movie theaters? Do you a problem with those that do?


When Ender's Game came out in theaters, I really wanted to see it but I could not in good conscience contribute monetarily in any way to Orson Scott Card due to his crazy bigotry.

So I paid for two tickets (I had someone with me) for an entirely different movie, then just went into room showing Ender's Game. Bought snacks at concessions and everything, just to be contributing properly.

I don't feel bad about it. Scott Card brought it upon himself.

I also later went back and saw the other movie, the one I paid for the first time, so I paid to watch that movie twice but only watched it once. I don't remember what it was, off-hand.

Okay, that's my cool story, bro.
 
2014-06-09 07:50:05 PM

Jesus Farking Christ: I was in France for 98, and was in Lyon for the Scotland game (I think they were in St. Etienne).  I honestly don't remember a lot over that couple of days.  I remember my local took out the glass and brought in plastic cups (wise move in retrospect).  I do know I was so drunk that I felt it for days afterward, even without alcohol.  I did vomit, profusely, and was encouraged to keep drinking.  I remember getting blown by a Scottish brunette named Wanda while smoking a cigar.  I say "remember" but truth is I don't--there is photographic evidence, because she did it in the back pool room.  I have no idea if I came.  And probably most importantly, I remember one song we sang over and over.

"There's only one Wayne Rooney.
There's only one Wayne Rooney.
With a packet of sweets and a cheeky smile,
Rooney is a farking pedophile."

I found out later the next week, I made an international phone call home to my parents in Florida, and the entire bar sang that song.

On a more humbling note, I have to admit that after watching that video...Jesus, I feel farking educated about FIFA.  I mean, I knew Qatar bribed the fark out of them, anyone with half a brain could figure that out.  But the rest...just farking wow.


CSB, but I'm gonna call BS. Wayne Rooney would have been about 13 in 1998 and heard of by precisely no-one at the time, least of all a bar of drunken Scots. I suggest revising your story with a more appropriate choice of English footballer.
 
2014-06-09 08:03:10 PM

ChadM89: nmrsnr: insertsnarkyusername: They didn't steal from you, they found your work not worth the money you were charging or they weren't sure and wanted to check it out. Plus you are talking about a group of people who probably just download all of their entertainment from that site. You didn't lose sales, you gained viewers.

Just out of curiosity, do you routinely sneak into movie theaters? Do you a problem with those that do?

When Ender's Game came out in theaters, I really wanted to see it but I could not in good conscience contribute monetarily in any way to Orson Scott Card due to his crazy bigotry.

So I paid for two tickets (I had someone with me) for an entirely different movie, then just went into room showing Ender's Game. Bought snacks at concessions and everything, just to be contributing properly.

I don't feel bad about it. Scott Card brought it upon himself.

I also later went back and saw the other movie, the one I paid for the first time, so I paid to watch that movie twice but only watched it once. I don't remember what it was, off-hand.

Okay, that's my cool story, bro.


You could have done your research and found out he wasn't going to get anything from the movie. Any money he made from the movie was dealt with years ago.

http://www.thewire.com/entertainment/2013/10/enders-game-movie-profit s -wont-go-orson-scott-card/71136/
 
2014-06-09 08:13:39 PM

Jaden Smith First of His Name: weddingsinger: Pirating is a selfish act. It denies compensation to those who create something. True to any selfish act, if too many people also participate, the burden gets unfairly put upon those who do pay, who now have to pay a larger share, until the entire system collapses.

But if those people were never going to buy or watch legally in the first place it's not a lost sale. If I go to a museum and see a Van Gogh I like, and print it out later on a 3D printer, it's not like the market for Van Gogh purchasers has gone down because I was never going to buy one in the first place. I've watched a few cam-rip movies in the past few weeks because they were things I was never going to see in the theater in the first place, and I may just go see one of them in the theater because the movie was much better than I thought it would be. In that sense piracy may add a sale that didn't exist beforehand.


You're comparing a rare item (a Van Gogh) to a common one, though your printing of a non-copyrighted item did cost the museum's gift shop a sale (of the poster).  Plus, it doesn't change the fact that, if you're not willing to pay for something, then just don't participate.  It's the same courtesy you would expect of other people for your own work.  That's how a society works.  If you only take without contributing, then you're just an asshole.  Justifying it by claiming you would never pay for it is bullshiat.  Then don't watch the movies at all if they're such garbage instead of rationalizing enjoying the fruits of someone's work without paying them.
 
2014-06-09 08:23:47 PM

gwowen: Excellent long-form takedown of Chuck Blazer, the US's erstwhile FIFA Committee man


What a great read. Made my day.
 
2014-06-09 08:27:37 PM

Empty H: ChadM89: nmrsnr: insertsnarkyusername: They didn't steal from you, they found your work not worth the money you were charging or they weren't sure and wanted to check it out. Plus you are talking about a group of people who probably just download all of their entertainment from that site. You didn't lose sales, you gained viewers.

Just out of curiosity, do you routinely sneak into movie theaters? Do you a problem with those that do?

When Ender's Game came out in theaters, I really wanted to see it but I could not in good conscience contribute monetarily in any way to Orson Scott Card due to his crazy bigotry.

So I paid for two tickets (I had someone with me) for an entirely different movie, then just went into room showing Ender's Game. Bought snacks at concessions and everything, just to be contributing properly.

I don't feel bad about it. Scott Card brought it upon himself.

I also later went back and saw the other movie, the one I paid for the first time, so I paid to watch that movie twice but only watched it once. I don't remember what it was, off-hand.

Okay, that's my cool story, bro.

You could have done your research and found out he wasn't going to get anything from the movie. Any money he made from the movie was dealt with years ago.

http://www.thewire.com/entertainment/2013/10/enders-game-movie-profit s -wont-go-orson-scott-card/71136/


Eh. I wasn't obsessed or anything. The whole episode went like this:

Me: 'Oh you wanna see Ender's Game? That's cool, but that Orson Scott Card sure is an asshole. Let's pay for a different movie instead and just go watch it. Cool?'

Her: 'Yeah that works.'

End of story.
 
2014-06-09 08:27:48 PM

weddingsinger: You're comparing a rare item (a Van Gogh) to a common one, though your printing of a non-copyrighted item did cost the museum's gift shop a sale (of the poster). Plus, it doesn't change the fact that, if you're not willing to pay for something, then just don't participate. It's the same courtesy you would expect of other people for your own work. That's how a society works. If you only take without contributing, then you're just an asshole. Justifying it by claiming you would never pay for it is bullshiat. Then don't watch the movies at all if they're such garbage instead of rationalizing enjoying the fruits of someone's work without paying them.


But in my non-payment I've made a lot of other people money. I paid my ISP for the subscription to download at fast speeds. I paid for the electricity to run it. I ate some Sour Patch kids that are only a movie treat. Tom Cruise may get some theatrical release money out of me because Edge of Tomorrow was pretty good even on a Chinese cam. All in all I chipped into a lot of little pots for a thing I wasn't going to bother going to the theater for anyway.

Do you run an adblocker? Do you use a DVR to skip through commercials? If so, you're enjoying the fruits of someone else's labor without paying them; we just disagree on the level of level of which it's acceptable to take without paying.
 
2014-06-09 08:28:51 PM

Penman: Every day, fewer and fewer customers enter my store to buy fewer and fewer CDs. Why is no one buying CDs? Are people not interested in music?

Bought my wife a new car (Kia Soul) that didn't come with a CD player at all.  The car comes with a USB port and can play MP3s right off a thumb drive.  Kids today generally have devices that play MP3s, not sure how many know what CDs are?  All my purchased CDs are in boxes in the garage, because it's just easier to deal with MP3s, even if I have to download them (ripping takes a lot of time).  I suppose I could sell the physical CDs for a few bucks, but I feel better knowing I did support the music that I enjoy.
 
2014-06-09 08:42:39 PM

Jaden Smith First of His Name: But in my non-payment I've made a lot of other people money. I paid my ISP for the subscription to download at fast speeds. I paid for the electricity to run it. I ate some Sour Patch kids that are only a movie treat. Tom Cruise may get some theatrical release money out of me because Edge of Tomorrow was pretty good even on a Chinese cam. All in all I chipped into a lot of little pots for a thing I wasn't going to bother going to the theater for anyway.

Do you run an adblocker? Do you use a DVR to skip through commercials? If so, you're enjoying the fruits of someone else's labor without paying them; we just disagree on the level of level of which it's acceptable to take without paying.


Congrats on paying for your internet service and electric bill, which you would have had anyway, instead of mooching that, too.

We don't have a DVR.  We don't have cable.  We watch shows through their networks portals, when we can, or for a show like Orphan Black, we simply got a season pass through Amazon.

If we want to watch, or if we want to enjoy the fruits of anyone's labor,  we pay the price we need to.  $10 for a movie ticket, DVD, or downloadable file is nothing in the scheme of things, but it does mean you're not a mooch.  I respect other people's work the same way I want them to respect mine.
 
2014-06-09 08:48:12 PM

weddingsinger: Jaden Smith First of His Name: But in my non-payment I've made a lot of other people money. I paid my ISP for the subscription to download at fast speeds. I paid for the electricity to run it. I ate some Sour Patch kids that are only a movie treat. Tom Cruise may get some theatrical release money out of me because Edge of Tomorrow was pretty good even on a Chinese cam. All in all I chipped into a lot of little pots for a thing I wasn't going to bother going to the theater for anyway.

Do you run an adblocker? Do you use a DVR to skip through commercials? If so, you're enjoying the fruits of someone else's labor without paying them; we just disagree on the level of level of which it's acceptable to take without paying.

Congrats on paying for your internet service and electric bill, which you would have had anyway, instead of mooching that, too.

We don't have a DVR.  We don't have cable.  We watch shows through their networks portals, when we can, or for a show like Orphan Black, we simply got a season pass through Amazon.

If we want to watch, or if we want to enjoy the fruits of anyone's labor,  we pay the price we need to.  $10 for a movie ticket, DVD, or downloadable file is nothing in the scheme of things, but it does mean you're not a mooch.  I respect other people's work the same way I want them to respect mine.


Are you running an adblocker?
 
2014-06-09 08:58:24 PM
No.

DVRs are part of your television service, which you pay for.

I pay almost $200/mo for my cable service (all channels including premiums, multiple rooms, all HD DVRs, plus internet and phone). I'm not pirating anything, to any degree.
 
2014-06-09 09:22:16 PM

ChadM89: I pay almost $200/mo for my cable service (all channels including premiums, multiple rooms, all HD DVRs, plus internet and phone). I'm not pirating anything, to any degree.


No, you're paying the distributor only with your subscription fee.

The  channels, the people that are providing the actual content, make most of their revenue from ads, in many cases  all of their revenue, the cable company pays them little to nothing.

If you use the DVR, distributor-provided or not, you're straight-up taking their content without paying for it.  Even after they went to all that work to localize the ads to be more potentially actually useful to you.

You pirate bastard.
 
2014-06-09 09:31:34 PM

Jim_Callahan: If you use the DVR, distributor-provided or not, you're straight-up taking their content without paying for it. Even after they went to all that work to localize the ads to be more potentially actually useful to you.

You pirate bastard.


This is a false analogy. The ad buyers could never force you to watch (you could leave the room, or, like me, mute it and read) and you could legally access the content anyway. They pay for the possibility that you will see their ad and be persuaded.

With piracy, there is no legal way for you to access the content without payment.
 
2014-06-09 09:49:27 PM

Penman: Why is no one buying CDs?


Because CDs are an increasingly obsolete and inconvenient technology, and you're not big enough to refuse to adapt. I don't use a buggy anymore, so you probably shouldn't biatch when I stop buying your whips.
 
2014-06-09 09:56:13 PM

nmrsnr: Jim_Callahan: If you use the DVR, distributor-provided or not, you're straight-up taking their content without paying for it. Even after they went to all that work to localize the ads to be more potentially actually useful to you.

You pirate bastard.

This is a false analogy. The ad buyers could never force you to watch (you could leave the room, or, like me, mute it and read) and you could legally access the content anyway. They pay for the possibility that you will see their ad and be persuaded.

With piracy, there is no legal way for you to access the content without payment.


So it's allright if you are inconvenienced in some way shape or form?
 
2014-06-09 10:04:39 PM

insertsnarkyusername: So it's allright if you are inconvenienced in some way shape or form?


Did I say anything remotely resembling that? I pointed out that his analogy of advertisers paying for content that is then delivered to you is different than content that you have to pay for yourself, because in no case were the ad buyers guaranteed your viewership, and pay for the content knowing that fact, as opposed to content providers expecting their viewers to pay, and having no other legal avenue of access.
 
2014-06-09 10:09:34 PM

nmrsnr: insertsnarkyusername: So it's allright if you are inconvenienced in some way shape or form?

Did I say anything remotely resembling that? I pointed out that his analogy of advertisers paying for content that is then delivered to you is different than content that you have to pay for yourself, because in no case were the ad buyers guaranteed your viewership, and pay for the content knowing that fact, as opposed to content providers expecting their viewers to pay, and having no other legal avenue of access.


It's not penance. What does it matter if they had the chance if you never intended to view it to begin with?
 
2014-06-09 10:15:32 PM

Jim_Callahan: ChadM89: I pay almost $200/mo for my cable service (all channels including premiums, multiple rooms, all HD DVRs, plus internet and phone). I'm not pirating anything, to any degree.

No, you're paying the distributor only with your subscription fee.

The  channels, the people that are providing the actual content, make most of their revenue from ads, in many cases  all of their revenue, the cable company pays them little to nothing.

If you use the DVR, distributor-provided or not, you're straight-up taking their content without paying for it.  Even after they went to all that work to localize the ads to be more potentially actually useful to you.

You pirate bastard.


Content providers knowingly provide their content to distributors with the understanding that DVRs exist and are being used. They supply the content regardless, willingly. They understand and agree that the end user can and often will use their DVRs to skip advertising.

What makes it piracy is that the source of the material has not given their consent for their product to be taken without payment.

There's a reason why downloading movies you haven't paid for is illegal but fast-forwarding commercials on your DVR is not, and arguing otherwise only makes you look like a fool. What did you think, that people in the thread were all going to read your nonsense and nod in agreement, incapable of the grade-school logic required to see that you have no idea what you're talking about? Jesus Christ.
 
2014-06-09 10:53:10 PM

ghare: Khellendros: Because if everyone goes your way, there are no more shows.

Are you telling me that HBO is getting ready to go out of business?


No, I'm saying that everyone can't do that and have the art survive.  If they did, there would be no shows.  Neither you, nor any other asshole who pirates the show is special.  Their choice to cheat the system isn't "ok" because others are footing the bill.  If it's not a right choice ethically for everyone, then it's not ok for him because he feels entitled to check it out and not pay just because.

Pay your bit into the pool.  Whether that's pulling it through legitimate online channels and paying your couple of dollars, or watching the commercials they throw up there.  Whatever it is that they make their revenue from.  It's no prohibitive to get most shows today.  Same for music.  Pay your part and enjoy.
 
2014-06-09 11:05:53 PM

Penman: Good for you on those sales numbers. I'm not saying that everybody found it not worth paying for, I'm saying maybe those that pirated it did. You are the one that seems rather desperate here. I don't find anything immoral with what I'm doing and the illegal part is not a deterrent when the law behind it is basically unenforceable.

As a record store owner, my business faces ruin. CD sales have dropped through the floor. People aren't buying half as many CDs as they did just a year ago. Revenue is down and costs are up. My store has survived for years, but I now face the prospect of bankruptcy. Every day I ask myself why this is happening.

I bought the store about 12 years ago. It was one of those boutique record stores that sell obscure, independent releases that no-one listens to, not even the people that buy them. I decided that to grow the business I'd need to aim for a different demographic, the family market. My store specialised in family music - stuff that the whole family could listen to. I don't sell sick stuff like Marilyn Manson or cop-killer rap, and I'm proud to have one of the most extensive Christian rock sections that I know of.

The business strategy worked. People flocked to my store, knowing that they (and their children) could safely purchase records without profanity or violent lyrics. Over the years I expanded the business and took on more clean-cut and friendly employees. It took hard work and long hours but I had achieved my dream - owning a profitable business that I had built with my own hands, from the ground up. But now, this dream is turning into a nightmare.

Every day, fewer and fewer customers enter my store to buy fewer and fewer CDs. Why is no one buying CDs? Are people not interested in music? Do people prefer to watch TV, see films, read books? I don't know. But there is one, inescapable truth - Internet piracy is mostly to blame. The statistics speak for themselves - one in three discs world wide is a pirate. On The Internet, yo ...


The only stuff I download are recs that are no longer in print, or records that were never officially released.  I buy a shiat ton of vinyl and cds (much to my gf's chagrin, as I'm running out of space).  There have been many times I've downloaded a record, it was rereleased, and I then bought the rerelease.  However, this is b/c I want the tangible object, the artwork, liner notes and all attached to the aural medium.  I prefer the analogue or the product more then the just the download, but if the former isn't available, I'll get the latter.

/remember  Tooth & Nail recs?
 
2014-06-09 11:16:32 PM

RoyBatty: Not to knock John Oliver, who I really enjoy, I can't understand his leaving the Daily Show for this knockoff.

While the bits I've seen are good, I think the Daily Show is much better and offered him greater exposure if not the seat behind the desk. And I suspect his total viewership is way down.


He's probably batting 100% with at least one long clip per show going viral. I think he'll be OK. Wish the show was am hour long but once a week format suits him.

For now I guess, got a goddamn Comcast warning cause I torrented an episode. SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY HBO*.

* without requiring me to give a dime more to Comcast then I have to!**
**goddamm monopoly around here
 
2014-06-09 11:18:56 PM

Khellendros: ghare: Khellendros: Because if everyone goes your way, there are no more shows.

Are you telling me that HBO is getting ready to go out of business?

No, I'm saying that everyone can't do that and have the art survive.  If they did, there would be no shows.  Neither you, nor any other asshole who pirates the show is special.  Their choice to cheat the system isn't "ok" because others are footing the bill.  If it's not a right choice ethically for everyone, then it's not ok for him because he feels entitled to check it out and not pay just because.

Pay your bit into the pool.  Whether that's pulling it through legitimate online channels and paying your couple of dollars, or watching the commercials they throw up there.  Whatever it is that they make their revenue from.  It's no prohibitive to get most shows today.  Same for music.  Pay your part and enjoy.


I'm completely fine with paying per episode, or a subscription to this show, or watching commercials. But I have exactly 0 of those options right now so to get HBO on Comcast for essentially 1 show I'd be paying $25 an episode, assuming no reruns.
 
2014-06-09 11:21:51 PM

StreetlightInTheGhetto: I'm completely fine with paying per episode, or a subscription to this show, or watching commercials. But I have exactly 0 of those options right now so to get HBO on Comcast for essentially 1 show I'd be paying $25 an episode, assuming no reruns.


So your issue is you have to have them NOW.  Because there will be lots of options to view them soon, as there always is.
 
2014-06-09 11:27:00 PM

weddingsinger: insertsnarkyusername: I've never understood why people feel guilty for pirating.

Have you ever had a job where you felt your boss wasn't paying you enough for your level of work?
Ever worked for yourself and had a client try to not pay all they owed?
Ever waiting tables, worked your ass off for one, and they stiff you on the tip, or worse, the whole bill?

Pirating is a selfish act.  It denies compensation to those who create something.  True to any selfish act, if too many people also participate, the burden gets unfairly put upon those who do pay, who now have to pay a larger share,  until the entire system collapses.

Of course, the common put back to that is, I'd pay if they made something worth paying for, which is total bullshiat.  If it's worth pirating/watching/playing, then it's obviously worth paying for, since you felt it was valuable enough to go get.  You are entertained by something, thus it has value, and you should pay for it.  The same way you expect others to pay for the things you create.


I donate to The Bugle so my money was going to Oliver anyway. I also donated to NPR during the BBC world report so I could give them some money in a round about way for using IP Shield to watch the Olympic opening ceremonies in full. In both cases I really didn't have a decent alternative (buying premium cable on top of normal I don't need, want, or have budgeted; NBC suuuucks and skipped the most poignant part of the ceremony because they know what I want apparently).

Again, HBO: take my damn money in a reasonable fashion already.
 
2014-06-09 11:29:55 PM

Khellendros: StreetlightInTheGhetto: I'm completely fine with paying per episode, or a subscription to this show, or watching commercials. But I have exactly 0 of those options right now so to get HBO on Comcast for essentially 1 show I'd be paying $25 an episode, assuming no reruns.

So your issue is you have to have them NOW.  Because there will be lots of options to view them soon, as there always is.


It's a current events show. Waiting for the DVD seems kind of like missing the point. Note I didn't mention torrenting Game of Thrones.
 
2014-06-10 12:39:51 AM

nmrsnr: some_beer_drinker: nmrsnr: More than Game of Thrones, this is tempting me to get an HBO subscription.

do you not understand how the internet works?

I gave up pirating a long time ago. Too much effort, too many viruses, and I don't have to try and not feel guilty through crappy justifications.


We good, but still to fully deploy our mp4 mvk virus solutions, how did you even know we was working on it ?
 
2014-06-10 05:22:22 AM
Well, this thread went all kinds of weird.

These shows seem quite educational.  Last time we had a thread like this, I had trouble getting the sound to work at home with the online video, but I found and watched the last few shows via HBO On Demand, something I usually don't even bother to look at.
 
2014-06-10 05:44:33 AM

The Numbers: Jesus Farking Christ: I was in France for 98, and was in Lyon for the Scotland game (I think they were in St. Etienne).  I honestly don't remember a lot over that couple of days.  I remember my local took out the glass and brought in plastic cups (wise move in retrospect).  I do know I was so drunk that I felt it for days afterward, even without alcohol.  I did vomit, profusely, and was encouraged to keep drinking.  I remember getting blown by a Scottish brunette named Wanda while smoking a cigar.  I say "remember" but truth is I don't--there is photographic evidence, because she did it in the back pool room.  I have no idea if I came.  And probably most importantly, I remember one song we sang over and over.

"There's only one Wayne Rooney.
There's only one Wayne Rooney.
With a packet of sweets and a cheeky smile,
Rooney is a farking pedophile."

I found out later the next week, I made an international phone call home to my parents in Florida, and the entire bar sang that song.

On a more humbling note, I have to admit that after watching that video...Jesus, I feel farking educated about FIFA.  I mean, I knew Qatar bribed the fark out of them, anyone with half a brain could figure that out.  But the rest...just farking wow.

CSB, but I'm gonna call BS. Wayne Rooney would have been about 13 in 1998 and heard of by precisely no-one at the time, least of all a bar of drunken Scots. I suggest revising your story with a more appropriate choice of English footballer.


Wayne Rooney I chose out of a hat. I have no idea who we were singing about. But thanks for trying to piss on a memory.
 
2014-06-10 07:51:13 AM

shower_in_my_socks: You don't get to choose which laws you do and don't obey based on moral objectives to how various businesses operate


Yeah you do.

You can choose not to obey any laws you want for any reason.

Now you may think he reasons are garbage, but he still has that choice.
 
2014-06-10 08:25:40 AM

shower_in_my_socks: insertsnarkyusername: They didn't steal from you, they found your work not worth the money you were charging or they weren't sure and wanted to check it out.

YOU DO NOT KNOW THAT. How do you know which percentage of them would have paid had there been no other option? You don't. That film has sold something like 200,000 DVDs, so yes, people found it worth paying for. You're just desperately spinning to justify your own immoral and illegal behavior.


What do you make per sale?  more than $1?
 
2014-06-10 09:54:56 AM

Penman: Good for you on those sales numbers. I'm not saying that everybody found it not worth paying for, I'm saying maybe those that pirated it did. You are the one that seems rather desperate here. I don't find anything immoral with what I'm doing and the illegal part is not a deterrent when the law behind it is basically unenforceable.

As a record store owner, my business faces ruin. CD sales have dropped through the floor. People aren't buying half as many CDs as they did just a year ago. Revenue is down and costs are up. My store has survived for years, but I now face the prospect of bankruptcy. Every day I ask myself why this is happening.

I bought the store about 12 years ago. It was one of those boutique record stores that sell obscure, independent releases that no-one listens to, not even the people that buy them. I decided that to grow the business I'd need to aim for a different demographic, the family market. My store specialised in family music - stuff that the whole family could listen to. I don't sell sick stuff like Marilyn Manson or cop-killer rap, and I'm proud to have one of the most extensive Christian rock sections that I know of.

The business strategy worked. People flocked to my store, knowing that they (and their children) could safely purchase records without profanity or violent lyrics. Over the years I expanded the business and took on more clean-cut and friendly employees. It took hard work and long hours but I had achieved my dream - owning a profitable business that I had built with my own hands, from the ground up. But now, this dream is turning into a nightmare.

Every day, fewer and fewer customers enter my store to buy fewer and fewer CDs. Why is no one buying CDs? Are people not interested in music? Do people prefer to watch TV, see films, read books? I don't know. But there is one, inescapable truth - Internet piracy is mostly to blame. The statistics speak for themselves - one in three discs world wide is a pirate. On The Internet, yo ...


You want this scheme to be as successful as the "war on drugs?"
 
2014-06-10 12:46:11 PM
I pirate proudly.

I found tons of good music that way.  And when those bands/artists come within range for a show, I generally buy every CD they have at the merch table.

CSB:
   The Toasters played a show at my local bar (max capacity ~200 people).  I helped out with security and after the show, Bucket (the lead singer/guitar/only founding member left) was at the merch table where CD's were $10ea, 2 for $15, 4 for $20. I said "Give me 1 of every CD you have" and handed him $100.  He only had 6 different ones and said he'd give them to me for $30.  I said keep it, cause I have 14 of your albums at home that I downloaded.  I just wanted to make sure you got the money and not some distributor or label.  He was floored that anyone who pirated would do that when I already had the music. (The CDs are in a box in my attic somewhere, still unopened)
   I've done the same thing with Less Than Jake, Reel Big Fish, Bigger Thomas and others.  I use piracy to discover acts.  If I find a movie I like, i go buy it.  If it's a giant turd of masturbatory references and marketing crap (looking at you Uwe Boll and Michael Bay), then fark em.

  The 3 biggest points I'll make and hope that content creators take from this is:
   1. If people aren't paying what you want for your product, then your product isn't priced well.
   2. The media industry (read: music, movies, magazines, newspapers, etc...) is the only industry I can think of that requires you to pay for the product before you can try it.  If I go to any store, even WalMart, and ask about a product, they'll open it up and let me look at it, try it out.  I can test drive cars.  I can try a new phone from Verizon in the store.  I can try on clothes.  I can read a chapter of a book at Barnes & Nobel.  Even if I buy too much or the wrong type of item, I can return it.  Lowe's lets me return landscaping items if I decide I don't like how it looks in my front yard.  Hell, I can even send food back at a restaurant or fast-food joint if I don't like it or it's not as good as advertised, but media demands that I pay in full before I can experience it then screams persecution if I try to actually see if it is something I would like and enjoy first.
   3. I don't want to put content creators out of business, but instead, ensure that the ones that produce quality items that entertain me get paid so that they can continue to create quality items in the future that I will enjoy.  I do not want to re-enforce content creators (or distribution/rights management firms) that I don't get entertainment from just because I can't decide if the content in question is worth buying until after I purchased it.

Also, John Oliver is hilarious.  I've only seen the clips of his show on Fark because I can't get HBO where I'm at (no cable and not paying for Satellite+HBO for 1 show)

/there might be a 4th point of "you like shiatty music" but at least it's not Bieber
 
2014-06-10 01:53:38 PM

abmoraz: The 3 biggest points I'll make and hope that content creators take from this is:
1. If people aren't paying what you want for your product, then your product isn't priced well.
2. The media industry (read: music, movies, magazines, newspapers, etc...) is the only industry I can think of that requires you to pay for the product before you can try it. If I go to any store, even WalMart, and ask about a product, they'll open it up and let me look at it, try it out. I can test drive cars. I can try a new phone from Verizon in the store. I can try on clothes.

abmoraz: 3. I don't want to put content creators out of business, but instead, ensure that the ones that produce quality items that entertain me get paid so that they can continue to create quality items in the future that I will enjoy.


You've really diluted yourself, haven't you?

Your number 1 completely ignores the basic idea of a market.  I don't play money for a Ferrari, that doesn't mean they've priced it incorrectly.  It means that the combination of my desire and their price puts me out of their market.   Sure, I want one.  Sure I wish I had one, but they're still not priced incorrectly because I can't buy it.  Music/movies, etc are entertainment.  Not necessities.  They work like luxury items.  You don't have a right to posses it at the price you demand.

And your number 2 ignores reality.  Bands put out sample tracks and parts of their music to open sources all of the time.  Free tracks to download, videos with the music on youtube, released on terrestrial and satellite radio.  All reachable by the vast proportion of society.  Even (and especially) smaller bands.  You can see trailers of movies, you can get samples or free issues of any magazine or newspaper you want.  Free for several week or months.  All of them.  After a few issues, they want you to pay, or they stop delivering.

Your number 3 isn't your farking call.  That's how a free market works.  You pay for the things you want, and if you're not willing to pay for them, you don't get them.  If others are willing to pay, that's their audience.  You don't have the right to own it at your price.  If you think Band A is only worth a dollar, because they are low quality, you're not their audience.  Don't pay, and either they'll change to get a wider audience (Goo Goo Dolls style), or they'll stay small and deal with lower profits from their fans that are willing to pay their price.

The excuse to pirate music went away when music services started offering songs for $1, and albums for $10.  With a few exceptions.

Your arguments are all lies.  Completely and utterly.  They're flimsy excuses to justify getting something for free. Sack up and admit it.
 
2014-06-10 03:41:57 PM

Khellendros: abmoraz: The 3 biggest points I'll make and hope that content creators take from this is:
1. If people aren't paying what you want for your product, then your product isn't priced well.
2. The media industry (read: music, movies, magazines, newspapers, etc...) is the only industry I can think of that requires you to pay for the product before you can try it. If I go to any store, even WalMart, and ask about a product, they'll open it up and let me look at it, try it out. I can test drive cars. I can try a new phone from Verizon in the store. I can try on clothes.
abmoraz: 3. I don't want to put content creators out of business, but instead, ensure that the ones that produce quality items that entertain me get paid so that they can continue to create quality items in the future that I will enjoy.

You've really diluted yourself, haven't you?

Your number 1 completely ignores the basic idea of a market.  I don't play money for a Ferrari, that doesn't mean they've priced it incorrectly.  It means that the combination of my desire and their price puts me out of their market.   Sure, I want one.  Sure I wish I had one, but they're still not priced incorrectly because I can't buy it.  Music/movies, etc are entertainment.  Not necessities.  They work like luxury items.  You don't have a right to posses it at the price you demand.

And your number 2 ignores reality.  Bands put out sample tracks and parts of their music to open sources all of the time.  Free tracks to download, videos with the music on youtube, released on terrestrial and satellite radio.  All reachable by the vast proportion of society.  Even (and especially) smaller bands.  You can see trailers of movies, you can get samples or free issues of any magazine or newspaper you want.  Free for several week or months.  All of them.  After a few issues, they want you to pay, or they stop delivering.

Your number 3 isn't your farking call.  That's how a free market works.  You pay for the things you want, and if yo ...


Your response to #1 completely ignores the follow-up point I made in #2.  I *CAN* test-drive a Ferrari and see if it is worth the value at the price point set by the dealer/manufacturer.  I *CANT* do that with a movie, music, show, etc...  So, as vehement as you want your argument to be, it's full of holes.

Your response to #2: is exactly what I do.  Pirating ranges from Torrents (which you seem fixated on) to using plugins to save those youtube videos (of which, the VAST majority are not put up by the artists themselves, and are, in fact, copyright infringement on their own).  As for trailors, they USED to be a good indicator of a movie, but have become a bastardized item of their own.  They are no longer a good indication of how good or bad a movie is going to be, but instead, of how much marketing the studio can stuff into the 30sec to 3min spot.  You want a compromise?  Sure, I'd propose instead of trailers, allow anyone to watch the first 3rd of a movie for free.  If they want to watch the rest, pay full price.  If not, walk away.  Not ideal, but at least it's the start of a talking point towards a solution.

Your response to #3 is almost laughable.  Of course it is my call.  It is my money.  I have every right to spend it as I see fit and use it towards businesses and causes I want to see succeed.  Your counter-argument reduces to an agrument absurdum of "Sorry Mr. Hog farmer, but you have to give money to 'Vegan's Now' and their "Anti-Bacon Campaign" because it's not your choice where you spend your money."

Your entire post is nothing but vitriol and emotion with next to no coherent points.  Your previous posts up-thread were "pay your bits into the pool" and I spelled out exactly how I did and do accomplish that.  You know what I do with the artists and movies I get that I don't like?  I delete them.  I don't reshare them.  I don't give them money.  I move along.  i sampled the work, decided it's not entertaining to me, and go find something else.  I may be in the minority of people who do pirate and do actually pay for media from it, but you will not make me feel bad about it.  I get the warm fuzzy of knowing that my money is going to and supporting artists that make products that entertain me.  That I can put my money where it can provide the best returns for all involved, and, as a side effect, it's not going to fund stuff I have, at best, no interest in and at worst, negative interest in.
 
2014-06-10 03:50:24 PM

abmoraz: Khellendros: abmoraz: The 3 biggest points I'll make and hope that content creators take from this is:
1. If people aren't paying what you want for your product, then your product isn't priced well.
2. The media industry (read: music, movies, magazines, newspapers, etc...) is the only industry I can think of that requires you to pay for the product before you can try it. If I go to any store, even WalMart, and ask about a product, they'll open it up and let me look at it, try it out. I can test drive cars. I can try a new phone from Verizon in the store. I can try on clothes.
abmoraz: 3. I don't want to put content creators out of business, but instead, ensure that the ones that produce quality items that entertain me get paid so that they can continue to create quality items in the future that I will enjoy.

You've really diluted yourself, haven't you?

Your number 1 completely ignores the basic idea of a market.  I don't play money for a Ferrari, that doesn't mean they've priced it incorrectly.  It means that the combination of my desire and their price puts me out of their market.   Sure, I want one.  Sure I wish I had one, but they're still not priced incorrectly because I can't buy it.  Music/movies, etc are entertainment.  Not necessities.  They work like luxury items.  You don't have a right to posses it at the price you demand.

And your number 2 ignores reality.  Bands put out sample tracks and parts of their music to open sources all of the time.  Free tracks to download, videos with the music on youtube, released on terrestrial and satellite radio.  All reachable by the vast proportion of society.  Even (and especially) smaller bands.  You can see trailers of movies, you can get samples or free issues of any magazine or newspaper you want.  Free for several week or months.  All of them.  After a few issues, they want you to pay, or they stop delivering.

Your number 3 isn't your farking call.  That's how a free market works.  You pay for the things you wa ...


In addition, the whole media market reeks of the same racket as those wind shield washers in the city.  They come out, run a squeegee over your windshield, then demand money for their service, whether or not they did a good job.  If you don't pay, they smash your window.

"Hey!  You listened to our song!  You owe us money!"
"But the song sucks and I deleted it."
"SUE!!!!"
 
2014-06-10 04:23:31 PM

abmoraz: I *CANT* do that with a movie, music, show, etc... So, as vehement as you want your argument to be, it's full of holes.


Your entire dancing justification aside, this is the core of your argument, and it's a lie.  You can sample a newspaper (weeks at a time), a magazine (months at a time), music from just about any artist online, on the radio, or in free released tracks, see a few minutes of a movie in trailers or behind the scenes previews, read reviews, on and on and on.  With the exception of a stage play, all media gives you ample opportunity to sample without any payment.  You don't get to watch an entire concert, and decide if you want to pay the ticket price.  You don't get to watch a movie, then afterward decide if you were entertained enough to pay for the privilege.

You started off your post with

"The media industry (read: music, movies, magazines, newspapers, etc...) is the only industry I can think of that requires you to pay for the product before you can try it."

And it's a lie.  You have access to just about anything you want through open channels, and you chose instead to steal copyright material and choose whether or not to keep it.  You're the primary reason we have to deal with insane levels of DRM and other bullshiat in media.  They're just not starting to open up to modern methods of distribution, and your entitled mentality turns it into an arms race.

You don't want to feel bad about it?  Fine, your call.  You're still a thieving asshole.  Enjoy.
 
2014-06-10 04:26:08 PM

abmoraz: In addition, the whole media market reeks of the same racket as those wind shield washers in the city. They come out, run a squeegee over your windshield, then demand money for their service, whether or not they did a good job. If you don't pay, they smash your window.

"Hey! You listened to our song! You owe us money!"
"But the song sucks and I deleted it."
"SUE!!!!"


Really?  When you turn on your radio, or hear something walking through a store, they make you pay?  Really?  They're making you listen to their products then charging you?

No, you want the ability to watch a movie and then decide if you liked it.  You want to enjoy a CD, and then decide if you will bless the artist with your money after he entertained you.  Fark off.

You want to hear an artist?  Go online and pull their free tracks, watch their music video, or sample through any of the dozens of available channels.  That's what they're there for.
 
2014-06-10 05:25:26 PM

Khellendros: No, you want the ability to watch a movie and then decide if you liked it. You want to enjoy a CD, and then decide if you will bless the artist with your money after he entertained you. Fark off.


Yes, that is exactly what I want to do, and I do it.  But your statement is not accurate.  Let me fix it for you:

Khellendros: No, you want the ability to watch a movie and then decide if you liked it. You want to enjoy a CD, and then decide if you will bless the artist with your money after IF he entertained you. Fark off.


If he entertains me, then yes, I feel I owe him compensation.  I make sure that my money goes to artists that are good, provide good products/service that are entertaining to me, and I reward them with it so that, hopefully, they continue to put out entertaining product.  What I don't do is give money to artists that float by on a single act with a ton of filler, are pushed by major marketing but the final product is horseshiat, or aren't entertaining to me.  If I go to a show advertised as a family musical and they spend 2 hours farting on stage and making sex jokes, then yeah, I'm not gonna want to give them money.  If I'm promised a thrilling tale, and it turns out to be a phone book listing, again, not gonna feel inclined to wanna part with my money for that.  At what point did we start rewarding people for just doing anything, rather than doing something well?

What you seem to want is for us to guess if a total product is going to be entertaining and worth the money based on small snippets.  My answer to that: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Lost Skull.  The trailers were amazing for it, and the movie was worse than "Manos: Hands of Fate" or "This Planet Earth".  It was so bad that South Park even lampooned it as 120 minutes of Indy being raped and showed how impossible it is to get your time and money back from something like that.

You know what I did?  Downloaded it, watched the first 15 minutes, said "Wholly shiat, this is more awful than watching S-SPAN", turned it off, deleted the file, and moved on with my life."

Let's compare that with "She's Out Of My League", a Rom-Com that usually wouldn't appeal to me based on the trailer.  I downloaded that, watched the first 15 minutes, said "This isn't that bad" and watched the rest.  I liked it, so I bought the DVD.  Never opened it, but I have it.

These are just 2 examples of MANY. Things I thought I would like, and didnt (Inception, Avatar, Grown Ups) and things I didn't think I'd like, but ended up liking (R.I.P.D., The Hulk, Date Night)

What I've done is rewarded the movie makers that make things I want to watch and do so with some effort and quality.  They get my $10/15/50 or whatever it's price is.  Some I've bought the DVD.  Some I've gone out and seen in the theatre again.  Either way, they get paid.  They (hopefully) will make more movies like that appeal to me.  What I didn't do, is fork over hard earned cash to Spielberg and Lucas for phoning it in and trying to capitalize on their names and the names of their franchise and forgoing any real attempt at entertainment for a few sparkly special effects.  They, in turn, will either decide "it's not worth our while to churn out utter shiat like this again" and stop OR put more effort into it and make something that might earn a dollar (and have some dignity).

Entertainment is a service.  And like any other service, if the service is bad, I'm not paying for it.  I'm not paying a barber who farks up my hair cut.  I'm not paying a maid service who doesn't get my house clean.  I'm not paying a landscaper that kills all my shrubs.  I'm not paying for a chef who can't cook.  I'm not paying a babysitter that doesn't watch the kids.  And I'm not paying for entertainment that doesn't entertain me.
 
2014-06-10 05:47:43 PM

RoyBatty: Not to knock John Oliver, who I really enjoy, I can't understand his leaving the Daily Show for this knockoff.

While the bits I've seen are good, I think the Daily Show is much better and offered him greater exposure if not the seat behind the desk. And I suspect his total viewership is way down.


Having your own show on HBO likely pays a lot better than being one of several correspondents on The Daily Show. Stewart reportedly recommended Oliver for the show.
 
2014-06-10 05:50:26 PM

markb289: RoyBatty: Not to knock John Oliver, who I really enjoy, I can't understand his leaving the Daily Show for this knockoff.

While the bits I've seen are good, I think the Daily Show is much better and offered him greater exposure if not the seat behind the desk. And I suspect his total viewership is way down.

Having your own show on HBO likely pays a lot better than being one of several correspondents on The Daily Show. Stewart reportedly recommended Oliver for the show.


It's probably me, since I haven't gotten HBO in years and I have no idea of how "big" HBO is anymore.
 
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