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(Carl Sagan Portal)   "Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey" Finale episode 13 discussion thread and drinking game. 9PM Eastern on Fox   (carlsagan.com ) divider line
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1497 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Jun 2014 at 8:00 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-09 01:46:12 AM  
I've been following the series with rapt attention. Wonderful series. I hope it opened a few eyes.
 
2014-06-09 01:47:13 AM  
Angelcatkthx:
Don't want to alarm anyone but pretty sure that's a weeping angel on the other side of the pillar he's leaning on.

So, should I burn my computer now?
 
2014-06-09 02:03:36 AM  
Cosmos BLOWS.  It is not science, it is cargo-cult science as religion.  Tyson even dresses a priest.

Don't agree with this? Then you may not even know what science really is!  Scientific American, New scientist, Bill Nye, Nova, whatever, this is all pop-science, but pop-science is not science.

I took an image of the first match google gave me for 'quatum physics homework'.  This is what it looks like:
i.imgur.com
All that jibjab and special effects in these programs and magazine are bunkum for people who haven't a clue.
 
2014-06-09 02:20:26 AM  

Boloxor the Insipid: Then you may not even know what science really is!


Sooooo by your definition only true science=  Integral Calculus?
hummmm... don't really agree with ya there sparky
 
2014-06-09 02:39:25 AM  
This not a definition, it is an example.  Specifically an example of how different actual science is from media portrayal.  This math cannot be translated into English; you might as well translate into dog barks.  That is to say, the level of science you get from Cosmos is the same level of science your dog gets from Cosmos.  That is, none.  You might both be sold on a new brand of dog food though.
What Cosmos in particular does do is political proselytizing.  It does it the same way preachers sell their religion; with interesting stories about long dead mean and proclamations about the one absolute truth.
 
2014-06-09 02:44:50 AM  
Thanks to chicken_little for being so generous!

I am sad to see the end of Cosmos. NDT did a great job continuing in Carl Sagan's footsteps. I am also glad to see that Fox took a chance and was able to put this in a prime time slot. It seems like the era of educational TV, where you ask questions, or learn something has faded. And sure, while there may 200+ channels, the big networks (FOX,CBS,ABC,NBC) still drive a lot of eyeballs.

I hope this series made kids watch in amazement. Even as a grown man who knows most of what was presented, I still learned things. I just love to learn in general. How can you not look at space everyday and not be amazed? How can you not be on this planet, and wonder how lucky you are to be here? It's those type of questions that make life worth it.
 
2014-06-09 02:57:09 AM  

Boloxor the Insipid: This not a definition, it is an example.  Specifically an example of how different actual science is from media portrayal.  This math cannot be translated into English; you might as well translate into dog barks.  That is to say, the level of science you get from Cosmos is the same level of science your dog gets from Cosmos.  That is, none.  You might both be sold on a new brand of dog food though.
What Cosmos in particular does do is political proselytizing.  It does it the same way preachers sell their religion; with interesting stories about long dead mean and proclamations about the one absolute truth.


Let me help you out here a little:

Steps of the Scientific Method:
Ask a Question
Do Background Research
Construct a Hypothesis
Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment
Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion
Communicate Your Results

 ______________________
See step one?
See the last step?
That is what Cosmos was doing.
Getting present-day people to internally ask questions about things they might not know
AND show results of questions asked by people who came before them.
 
2014-06-09 02:58:27 AM  
imgs.xkcd.com
 
2014-06-09 03:06:11 AM  

Boloxor the Insipid: Cosmos BLOWS.  It is not science, it is cargo-cult science as religion.  Tyson even dresses a priest.


Wow, that's almost evidence good enough to convince a conservative!
 
2014-06-09 03:52:59 AM  
mr lawson: ...AND show results of questions ...

To be clear, the image I posted is of the answers from physics homework.
 
2014-06-09 04:36:32 AM  

Boloxor the Insipid: This math cannot be translated into English; you might as well translate into dog barks.


The fancy <blah|blah> notation is just short-hand for a set of common calculations you do in quantum mechanics. You can translate this into typical integral calculus notation (as is done above!) which can of course be translated into English.

The math is not the interesting part, anyway. The math is a means to an end--namely, some question has been asked, and a machine (the arithmetic) gives you the answer. The science is in whether the output of the machine matches reality (and if it doesn't, trying to find adjustments to the machine such that it does).

Not every physicist knows enough about the inner-workings of the machine to go tinkering around with its workings, but they're still being scientists when they ask it questions and test them against reality.

1) We presumably have some particle whose position and momentum are described by a wave-function that the author has called 'psi'.

b) If you were to measure its location in space along the x-axis, on average you would get 0. Its average momentum would be hbar*k.

c) 68-ish% of the time, you will get between -sigma/sqrt(2) and sigma/sqrt(2) for your measurements of the position, and between (hb*k -hb/(sqrt(2)*sigma)) and (hb*k + hb/(sqrt(2)*sigma)) for your measurement of the momentum.

hbar, k, and sigma just represent numbers. Do not be afraid.

d) You expect to find its position, along the x axis, to be >0 50% of the time and <0 50% of the time.

2a) This is just book-keeping that's useful to make other calculations easier, probably to be used in the later parts of the problem. It doesn't really say anything terribly interesting on its own.
 
2014-06-09 05:03:13 AM  

mark12A: In a few hundred years there will be a big fight, when we have the capability to overtake and retrieve the Voyagers, as to whether we should just grab them and put them in a museum...


We should, if only because we don't want the whole Universe discovering what colossal dorks we used to be.

There is some truly embarrassing dreck on those gold records. Remember: They were made in the 70s.
 
2014-06-09 08:12:35 AM  

Boloxor the Insipid: This not a definition, it is an example.  Specifically an example of how different actual science is from media portrayal.  This math cannot be translated into English; you might as well translate into dog barks.  That is to say, the level of science you get from Cosmos is the same level of science your dog gets from Cosmos.  That is, none.  You might both be sold on a new brand of dog food though.
What Cosmos in particular does do is political proselytizing.  It does it the same way preachers sell their religion; with interesting stories about long dead mean and proclamations about the one absolute truth.


So, basically, you're using the same argument that Harvard used against Carl Sagan when he was denied tenure.  That he was trying to bring science to the masses by making it more accessible instead of doing hard research.

And you are wrong.  It's better to have scientists that try to explain things like the scientific method in simple terms that anyone can understand.   Sagan himself thought that the more that science is accessible by the general public (the explanations of why and how things work), the better off society was at large.  Science is no more a 'religion' than I am a flatworm.
 
2014-06-09 08:13:19 AM  

Dangl1ng: Just finished out here on the west coast, tears in my eyes. I wish Fark was able to play these threads out in the same time based on your timezone. Or maybe have an Eastern Time/Central Time/Mountain Time/Pacific Time thread set. I would have liked to share all this will you in real time. But I feel as I have been able to in a small way.


Thank you for this gift. I will wield it wisely.
 
2014-06-09 08:24:28 AM  

Ex-Texan: An apt time for a reboot of the James Burke "Connections"  show, don't you think? It has been a favorite since the late '70s when it first aired.


YES!  I loved Connections when I was a kid.

And I just watched this final episode of Cosmos.  I was... not unmoved.  OK, fine.  Pale Blue Dot got me good, and I went a little weepy.  My time zone has prevented my from watching in real-time with the threads, but I have really enjoyed reading along after I watch the episode.  Thanks, farkers.
 
2014-06-09 09:47:17 AM  

Boloxor the Insipid: Cosmos BLOWS.  It is not science, it is cargo-cult science as religion.  Tyson even dresses a priest.

Don't agree with this? Then you may not even know what science really is!  Scientific American, New scientist, Bill Nye, Nova, whatever, this is all pop-science, but pop-science is not science.

I took an image of the first match google gave me for 'quatum physics homework'.  This is what it looks like:

All that jibjab and special effects in these programs and magazine are bunkum for people who haven't a clue.


Derp Derp Derp

Go away.
 
2014-06-09 10:05:22 AM  

Boloxor the Insipid: Cosmos BLOWS.  It is not science, it is cargo-cult science as religion.  Tyson even dresses a priest.

Don't agree with this? Then you may not even know what science really is!  Scientific American, New scientist, Bill Nye, Nova, whatever, this is all pop-science, but pop-science is not science.

I took an image of the first match google gave me for 'quatum physics homework'.  This is what it looks like:
[i.imgur.com image 705x817]
All that jibjab and special effects in these programs and magazine are bunkum for people who haven't a clue.


So what you're actually saying is you have no clue what the hell you're talking about?  You did an image search and came up with a page out of a quantum mechanics text book.  Congrats.

I've got a physics degree.  Bachelors, so nothing too special.  And I can tell you this, as someone who's gone through a similar text book and mastered its content - shows like Cosmos are absolutely science.  Yes, it's the survey course.  No, you're not required to be able to solve the time dependent Schrodinger equation for a particle in a infinite potential well to understand the basics at a conversational level.

What you're calling "pop science" is the gateway to actually getting people to think scientifically, and let go of prejudice, superstitious thinking, and start making decisions that help us as an ecosystem, not a race or a social class.  And it's absolutely science.
 
2014-06-09 11:01:45 AM  

timharrod: trekkiecougar: The thought of the Voyager probes gives me chills. It's fascinating to imagine some being examining them after we're long gone. I have the greatest respect for the folks who designed and cconstructed them.

"Murmurs of Earth: The Voyager Interstellar Record" (Sagan) is the book to hunt down.

http://goldenrecord.org/ is cool in the meantime.


Wow, that is one annoying website.
 
2014-06-09 11:02:00 AM  

Boloxor the Insipid: Cosmos BLOWS.  It is not science, it is cargo-cult science as religion.  Tyson even dresses a priest.

Don't agree with this? Then you may not even know what science really is!  Scientific American, New scientist, Bill Nye, Nova, whatever, this is all pop-science, but pop-science is not science.

I took an image of the first match google gave me for 'quatum physics homework'.  This is what it looks like:
[i.imgur.com image 705x817]
All that jibjab and special effects in these programs and magazine are bunkum for people who haven't a clue.


Who crapped in your Cheerios?
 
2014-06-09 11:07:48 AM  

Boloxor the Insipid: Cosmos BLOWS.  It is not science, it is cargo-cult science as religion.  Tyson even dresses a priest.

Don't agree with this? Then you may not even know what science really is!  Scientific American, New scientist, Bill Nye, Nova, whatever, this is all pop-science, but pop-science is not science.
...
All that jibjab and special effects in these programs and magazine are bunkum for people who haven't a clue.


Thanks for the input, Dr. Cooper.  I'm sure the show you've produced is much more interesting and informative.  Please share it with us.

And Bill Nye?  Seriously?  Not that I agree that popularizing science is cargo-cult-science-as-religion, but Bill Nye is pretty much the definition of that.  Tyson may not be as eloquent as Sagan, but his heart is in the same place.  Bill Nye is Mr. Wizard The Next Generation.

And of course these programs are for people who haven't a clue.  They're designed to give them a clue.  Inspire someone to look closer, and who knows where they'll go, or where they'll take all of us.
 
2014-06-09 11:16:43 AM  

rosekolodny: And I just watched this final episode of Cosmos.  I was... not unmoved.  OK, fine.  Pale Blue Dot got me good, and I went a little weepy.  My time zone has prevented my from watching in real-time with the threads, but I have really enjoyed reading along after I watch the episode.  Thanks, farkers.


I watched this morning also, due to time zone/lack of cable.  Great stuff.  I'm surprised that no one here has commented on the empty chair in the ship of the imagination at the end.  It's like Neil saying, "Ok, I'm done here.  Who's next?"
 
2014-06-09 01:58:05 PM  

DoctorWhat: rosekolodny: And I just watched this final episode of Cosmos.  I was... not unmoved.  OK, fine.  Pale Blue Dot got me good, and I went a little weepy.  My time zone has prevented my from watching in real-time with the threads, but I have really enjoyed reading along after I watch the episode.  Thanks, farkers.

I watched this morning also, due to time zone/lack of cable.  Great stuff.  I'm surprised that no one here has commented on the empty chair in the ship of the imagination at the end.  It's like Neil saying, "Ok, I'm done here.  Who's next?"


I was thinking that this morning. A "passing of the ship" if you will.
 
2014-06-09 02:03:45 PM  

geom_00: DoctorWhat: rosekolodny: And I just watched this final episode of Cosmos.  I was... not unmoved.  OK, fine.  Pale Blue Dot got me good, and I went a little weepy.  My time zone has prevented my from watching in real-time with the threads, but I have really enjoyed reading along after I watch the episode.  Thanks, farkers.

I watched this morning also, due to time zone/lack of cable.  Great stuff.  I'm surprised that no one here has commented on the empty chair in the ship of the imagination at the end.  It's like Neil saying, "Ok, I'm done here.  Who's next?"

I was thinking that this morning. A "passing of the ship" if you will.


I was thinking "looks like they forgot to CGI in Neil and probably said shows over who cares"
 
2014-06-09 03:21:54 PM  
I saw "Pale Blue Dot" twice yesterday.  The first time, I wasn't even thinking about the show later that night.  As I watched the episode, I was like "yes, this is what I've been waiting for.  Then they started the part about Voyager and finished with "The Pale Blue Dot".  I was in shambles, tears flowing freely.  I'm sorry I didn't participate in the thread last night, I can't fark and watch tv at the same time I don't have the set up for it.  I did see that somebody mentioned amazon having pre-orders for the dvds and I said I wanted to get them last night.  I just ordered them now.

I haven't been this interested in a TV show in years, I didn't miss an episode but one (attending to some family emergency) but I caught it the next day online.  I hope my purchase will be but a small voice in a loud message to the producers.  "We want more Science."
 
2014-06-09 03:55:57 PM  
All in all, I found it to be an enjoyable series, but not re-watchable. Needed more Tyson talking to you, less CGI/voiceovers. Animated segments added no useful information. Music was utterly banal. It didn't really do anything to make it stand out from any other CGI/voiceover science doc. It basically felt like a glorified Nova ScienceNOW series.

I still re-watch the original Cosmos on occasion.
 
2014-06-09 04:17:29 PM  

RaiderFanMikeP: geom_00: DoctorWhat: rosekolodny: And I just watched this final episode of Cosmos.  I was... not unmoved.  OK, fine.  Pale Blue Dot got me good, and I went a little weepy.  My time zone has prevented my from watching in real-time with the threads, but I have really enjoyed reading along after I watch the episode.  Thanks, farkers.

I watched this morning also, due to time zone/lack of cable.  Great stuff.  I'm surprised that no one here has commented on the empty chair in the ship of the imagination at the end.  It's like Neil saying, "Ok, I'm done here.  Who's next?"

I was thinking that this morning. A "passing of the ship" if you will.

I was thinking "looks like they forgot to CGI in Neil and probably said shows over who cares"


He's passing the ship onto the viewers.
 
2014-06-09 04:18:08 PM  

Great_Milenko: And of course these programs are for people who haven't a clue.  They're designed to give them a clue.  Inspire someone to look closer, and who knows where they'll go, or where they'll take all of us.


Hell, that that insularity and elitism within the scientific community is, at least, a self-destructive endeavor, were the bookends to last night's episode. Tyson's point about the Library of Alexandria was as big an F-U to individuals like those to whom you responded, as those towards young earthers, creationists, and climate change deniers.
 
2014-06-09 04:56:39 PM  

Ex-Texan: An apt time for a reboot of the James Burke "Connections"  show, don't you think? It has been a favorite since the late '70s when it first aired.


"Connections" is one of those shows I look back on and think, "this is what helped make me who I am today." Totally changed the way I look at things.
 
2014-06-09 05:07:55 PM  

geom_00: DoctorWhat: rosekolodny: And I just watched this final episode of Cosmos.  I was... not unmoved.  OK, fine.  Pale Blue Dot got me good, and I went a little weepy.  My time zone has prevented my from watching in real-time with the threads, but I have really enjoyed reading along after I watch the episode.  Thanks, farkers.

I watched this morning also, due to time zone/lack of cable.  Great stuff.  I'm surprised that no one here has commented on the empty chair in the ship of the imagination at the end.  It's like Neil saying, "Ok, I'm done here.  Who's next?"

I was thinking that this morning. A "passing of the ship" if you will.


The original ended that way, too.
 
2014-06-09 05:55:21 PM  

GypsyJoker: geom_00: DoctorWhat: rosekolodny: And I just watched this final episode of Cosmos.  I was... not unmoved.  OK, fine.  Pale Blue Dot got me good, and I went a little weepy.  My time zone has prevented my from watching in real-time with the threads, but I have really enjoyed reading along after I watch the episode.  Thanks, farkers.

I watched this morning also, due to time zone/lack of cable.  Great stuff.  I'm surprised that no one here has commented on the empty chair in the ship of the imagination at the end.  It's like Neil saying, "Ok, I'm done here.  Who's next?"

I was thinking that this morning. A "passing of the ship" if you will.

The original ended that way, too.


http://youtu.be/T6C9taivF40?t=53m53s

Case in point.
 
2014-06-09 07:00:25 PM  

aedude01: Boloxor the Insipid: Cosmos BLOWS.  It is not science, it is cargo-cult science as religion.  Tyson even dresses a priest.

Don't agree with this? Then you may not even know what science really is!  Scientific American, New scientist, Bill Nye, Nova, whatever, this is all pop-science, but pop-science is not science.

I took an image of the first match google gave me for 'quatum physics homework'.  This is what it looks like:
[i.imgur.com image 705x817]
All that jibjab and special effects in these programs and magazine are bunkum for people who haven't a clue.

Who crapped in your Cheerios?



I volunteer
 
2014-06-09 07:11:21 PM  
I have not commented much as I have been busy on Sunday nights, but I have read each thread as I watched, then re-watched every episode.

Thank you for your comments, insights, observations and feelings.

It was very dusty in here at the end.

/This series should be an entire class in every child's education, both the original, and this version. To show what we know, what we thought we knew, and how we learned the difference.
 
2014-06-09 07:45:42 PM  

timharrod: trekkiecougar: The thought of the Voyager probes gives me chills. It's fascinating to imagine some being examining them after we're long gone. I have the greatest respect for the folks who designed and cconstructed them.

"Murmurs of Earth: The Voyager Interstellar Record" (Sagan) is the book to hunt down.

http://goldenrecord.org/ is cool in the meantime.


Cool, thanks for sharing the link.  As a record collector and dj, that would be the ultimate record to acquire (and share).
 
2014-06-09 08:12:03 PM  

chicken_little: I couldn't sponsor everyone, but I thought that more Cosmos fans should see the Cosmos TF logo while it was still there. And I want to thank Crypticsatellite, who posts Science Channel discussion threads every week and has been since back when they played Cosmos reruns on Tuesday nights. He's a hell of a satellite.


Yea!  A super satellite!
 
2014-06-09 08:17:27 PM  

chicken_little: I couldn't sponsor everyone, but I thought that more Cosmos fans should see the Cosmos TF logo while it was still there. And I want to thank Crypticsatellite, who posts Science Channel discussion threads every week and has been since back when they played Cosmos reruns on Tuesday nights. He's a hell of a satellite.


And a Super Chicken!!!!   Qu'est-ce que c'est?

uh huh uh huh uh huh
 
2014-06-09 08:31:33 PM  
Watching it now, got to the scurvy atheist dweeb.  You don't have to be an atheist to be a scientist.  It seems rather sad to have no one to thank for your discoveries besides your beautiful (gag) self.
 
2014-06-09 08:45:01 PM  
Thank you Neil deGrasse Tyson !  Thanks Ann Druyan, and all that made this show possible.
 
2014-06-09 08:57:20 PM  

IronTom: Watching it now, got to the scurvy atheist dweeb.  You don't have to be an atheist to be a scientist.  It seems rather sad to have no one to thank for your discoveries besides your beautiful (gag) self.


Guessed you missed the bit where he (and others) constantly thank those that helped them pave the way for scientists for generations to come... but you see what you want to see. And isn't that just the core of the problem.
 
2014-06-09 09:26:02 PM  

Shadow Blasko: IronTom: Watching it now, got to the scurvy atheist dweeb.  You don't have to be an atheist to be a scientist.  It seems rather sad to have no one to thank for your discoveries besides your beautiful (gag) self.

Guessed you missed the bit where he (and others) constantly thank those that helped them pave the way for scientists for generations to come... but you see what you want to see. And isn't that just the core of the problem.


what are you on about then?  I was talking about Ron Reagan, not NdT.  NdT is cool.
 
2014-06-09 11:06:28 PM  
Reboot "The Ring Of Truth" next, please.
 
2014-06-09 11:38:53 PM  
I'm sorry that I wasn't able to participate in this thread live.  This new cosmos has been a worthy successor to the original.

And, yes, Pale Blue Dot never fails to release a lot of dust into the air in my near vicinity, and I'm not ashamed to admit it.
 
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