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(Common Dreams)   Upset about net neutrality? You probably don't understand the current world of peering and interconnection agreements, traffic shaping, zero-rate offerings, and flat out blocking, which limit the ability of users to access parts of the Internet   (commondreams.org) divider line 34
    More: Interesting, internet, risks, traffic shaping, quality of service, Telus, interest rates  
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1828 clicks; posted to Geek » on 07 Jun 2014 at 7:43 PM (46 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



34 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-06-07 04:36:49 PM  
Hell, I don't even understand the headline, subby.
 
2014-06-07 05:15:01 PM  

Darth_Lukecash: Hell, I don't even understand the headline, subby.


I don't even understand how I got here. I just mashed some keys and my magical porn box brought me to this place.
 
2014-06-07 05:20:55 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Darth_Lukecash: Hell, I don't even understand the headline, subby.

I don't even understand how I got here. I just mashed some keys and my magical porn box brought me to this place.


Fire bad!
 
2014-06-07 06:38:46 PM  
One of these days Bob Metcalfe will be right.
 
2014-06-07 06:41:29 PM  
Mommy, make the bad world go away.
 
2014-06-07 07:47:50 PM  
It's a series of tubes!
 
2014-06-07 08:16:46 PM  
The internet was created by a government agency. Who fooling who to think the net will ever be fair or not abused by any government?
 
2014-06-07 08:23:06 PM  
I know about peering. I have friends.
 
2014-06-07 08:36:53 PM  
I used to know about peering, but that pesky restraining order means I cannot enjoy my hobby....


Seriously subby, any chance you could break that down for us?  I mean you don't have to be on the same level as John Oliver last week, but....... after reading your headline, i want to end Net Neutrality along with Women's Sufferage...

/Women shouldn't sufferage...
 
2014-06-07 08:48:31 PM  

skinink: The internet was created by a government agency. Who fooling who to think the net will ever be fair or not abused by any government?


So was Tang.
 
2014-06-07 09:03:33 PM  
I trying peering once.  That was my third public lewdness citation.
 
2014-06-07 09:15:55 PM  
What has technology ever done for us?

TV off.
 
2014-06-07 09:18:21 PM  
Well, here's the thing, people complain more about their video stalling than they do about drops in quality.

So the telcos reshape the traffic to minimize the pauses, even if it means that the quality can suffer a bit occasionally.

Also, some origin servers are slow, or congested, etc. and the bandwidth provider does what it can to cache some of the data that seems popular.  They're really trying to optimize the overall experience for the user.  A happy user is one that doesn't switch to another provider.  And they like to brag about fewest complaints, etc.  (well, some have given up worrying about that because they have no competition)

So all this traffic manipulation, in a competitive market, is for your benefit.
 
2014-06-07 09:35:34 PM  

Iszael: A happy user is one that doesn't switch to another provider.


A what provider?
 
2014-06-07 09:56:12 PM  

Cpl.D: It's a series of tubes!


I'm pretty sure it's a dump truck...
 
2014-06-07 10:09:24 PM  
Iszael
So all this traffic manipulation, in a competitive market, is for your benefit.

You have a competitive market? Lucky.
 
2014-06-07 10:22:42 PM  

Representative of the unwashed masses: Cpl.D: It's a series of tubes!

I'm pretty sure it's a dump truck...


The dump truck is only involved when submitting posts to 4chan.
 
2014-06-07 11:02:01 PM  
Traffic shaping, when used properly, is a useful tool.  My router does traffic shaping. It puts torrenting at a lower priority than everything else I do so I can browse the internet or play an online game without lag. Before I got this router, doing a torrent pretty much hosed my connectivity for anything else.

Unfortunately, traffic shaping is usually what ISPs call "blocking".
 
2014-06-07 11:48:35 PM  
As great as the Nets are, how can anyone stay neutral????

Back in 20y05 I signed up for Cingular's unlimited data plan for their wifi service. For close to seven years, I had no problem with the service and was happy. Fast forward to 2012, AT&T had acquired Cingular and had discontinued the unlimited plan, but grandfathered current customers as long as they did not upgrade their equipment.

Sadly, in the summer of 2012 my wifi receiver started to fail and was completely undependable.  When it came time to upgrade, I inquired about the opportunity to keep my data plan and was told that was not an option.  Faced with this option, I chose to cancel my service... and not surprisingly, if I didn't choose to cancel my service AT&T would let me keep my unlimited plan...

Fast forward two-three months later and about six days into my current billing cycle, I had no internet access.  When I called AT&T's customer service, I was informed that my internet service had been cut off because I had exceeded 5GB of usage for the billing cycle...When I tried to alert the CS representative that I had unlimited data and was paying for unlimited data; the CS rep looked up my account and confirmed that I did indeed had unlimited data, but i had exceeded 5GB and my account would be locked until next billing cycle...

After several weeks of trying to resolve this problem, AT&T was willing to bill me for an unlimited plan as long as I only used 5GB of data..

In the end, after several more weeks of effort, I was able to cancel my AT&T plan and was credited for the early cancellation, but what made this matter worse is the fact that my "best" option at the time for data usage was Sprint... I should sue AT&T for making me deal with Sprint for the last two years... gawd, Sprint really sucks.

As these media companies try to merge, one of the requirements to approval should be offering an unlimited level of data and at a higher rate of speed than what we as a nation "enjoy."
 
2014-06-07 11:50:30 PM  

Iszael: Well, here's the thing, people complain more about their video stalling than they do about drops in quality.

So the telcos reshape the traffic to minimize the pauses, even if it means that the quality can suffer a bit occasionally.

Also, some origin servers are slow, or congested, etc. and the bandwidth provider does what it can to cache some of the data that seems popular.  They're really trying to optimize the overall experience for the user.  A happy user is one that doesn't switch to another provider.  And they like to brag about fewest complaints, etc.  (well, some have given up worrying about that because they have no competition)

So all this traffic manipulation, in a competitive market, is for your benefit.


That doesn't have much to do with our situation in America since most people have either 2 or 1 provider for broadband and that's all. We don't have the competitive market which would encourage any of what you're suggesting.

In fact, the reality for most of us here in America is quite the opposite. People don't have choices in broadband so ISP's can extort companies which rely on the internet to serve their customers like Comcast recently did to Netflix. Comcast intentionally slowed Netflix traffic until Netflix coughed up protection money. That sounds exactly nothing like the situation you described for wherever you live.
 
2014-06-07 11:54:58 PM  

jpo2269: As great as the Nets are, how can anyone stay neutral????

Back in 20y05 I signed up for Cingular's unlimited data plan for their wifi service. For close to seven years, I had no problem with the service and was happy. Fast forward to 2012, AT&T had acquired Cingular and had discontinued the unlimited plan, but grandfathered current customers as long as they did not upgrade their equipment.

Sadly, in the summer of 2012 my wifi receiver started to fail and was completely undependable.  When it came time to upgrade, I inquired about the opportunity to keep my data plan and was told that was not an option.  Faced with this option, I chose to cancel my service... and not surprisingly, if I didn't choose to cancel my service AT&T would let me keep my unlimited plan...

Fast forward two-three months later and about six days into my current billing cycle, I had no internet access.  When I called AT&T's customer service, I was informed that my internet service had been cut off because I had exceeded 5GB of usage for the billing cycle...When I tried to alert the CS representative that I had unlimited data and was paying for unlimited data; the CS rep looked up my account and confirmed that I did indeed had unlimited data, but i had exceeded 5GB and my account would be locked until next billing cycle...

After several weeks of trying to resolve this problem, AT&T was willing to bill me for an unlimited plan as long as I only used 5GB of data..

In the end, after several more weeks of effort, I was able to cancel my AT&T plan and was credited for the early cancellation, but what made this matter worse is the fact that my "best" option at the time for data usage was Sprint... I should sue AT&T for making me deal with Sprint for the last two years... gawd, Sprint really sucks.

As these media companies try to merge, one of the requirements to approval should be offering an unlimited level of data and at a higher rate of speed than what we as a nation "enjoy."


Well, I'd rather we just stopped letting them merge AND the FTC started breaking up some big telcos and banks, like they would have until we let the foxes start running the henhouse. Remember "Ma Bell"? They got too big and got broken up back in the day.

And ALSO, we need common carrier rules for ISP's like we got for long distance providers.
 
2014-06-08 12:06:39 AM  

Representative of the unwashed masses: Cpl.D: It's a series of tubes!

I'm pretty sure it's a dump truck...


Hold your tongue while saying those last two words, and it sounds like a more apt description of the web these days.
 
2014-06-08 12:30:50 AM  

Iszael: Well, here's the thing, people complain more about their video stalling than they do about drops in quality.

So the telcos reshape the traffic to minimize the pauses, even if it means that the quality can suffer a bit occasionally.

Also, some origin servers are slow, or congested, etc. and the bandwidth provider does what it can to cache some of the data that seems popular.  They're really trying to optimize the overall experience for the user.  A happy user is one that doesn't switch to another provider.  And they like to brag about fewest complaints, etc.  (well, some have given up worrying about that because they have no competition)

So all this traffic manipulation, in a competitive market, is for your benefit.


If they need to artificially limit the connection speed for certain services due to demand the solution isn't traffic shaping, it's upgrading the network so that the bottlenecks are removed.

We pay more and get lower quality service in return than pretty much any other developed nation.

news.bbcimg.co.uk

I don't want to hear Comcast tell me that they need to use deep packet inspection and traffic shaping to insure quality of service, when they're charging me more than twice as much per month as companies in pretty much everywhere else.

Turn the ISPs into common carriers and mandate line sharing.  Let other ISPs operate on the network to allow competition to drive prices down.
 
2014-06-08 01:56:50 AM  
Interestingly, if I were to graph people who lived densely populated area vs not Dense (and graphed it against Internet speeds) I think it'd look exactly the same.
 
2014-06-08 01:58:26 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: We pay more and get lower quality service in return than pretty much any other developed nation


It's not like we could let the government regulate the market to provide cheap efficient service to areas with limited chooses in service provide, that would be down right un-capitalistic  I mean if we make a level playing field that might allow for advancements in society instead of just funneling large sums of cash into the pocket of mega conglomerates, won't someone please think of the mega conglomerates.
 
2014-06-08 02:55:45 AM  
mong,

I do not necessarily disagree with you, but if the merged companies had to provide a higher level of service for a lower price, well that might not be a bad thing... Sadly, many mergers are granted with nothing more than promises...
 
2014-06-08 07:19:08 AM  

jpo2269: As great as the Nets are, how can anyone stay neutral????

Back in 20y05 I signed up for Cingular's unlimited data plan for their wifi service. For close to seven years, I had no problem with the service and was happy. Fast forward to 2012, AT&T had acquired Cingular and had discontinued the unlimited plan, but grandfathered current customers as long as they did not upgrade their equipment.

Sadly, in the summer of 2012 my wifi receiver started to fail and was completely undependable.  When it came time to upgrade, I inquired about the opportunity to keep my data plan and was told that was not an option.  Faced with this option, I chose to cancel my service... and not surprisingly, if I didn't choose to cancel my service AT&T would let me keep my unlimited plan...

Fast forward two-three months later and about six days into my current billing cycle, I had no internet access.  When I called AT&T's customer service, I was informed that my internet service had been cut off because I had exceeded 5GB of usage for the billing cycle...When I tried to alert the CS representative that I had unlimited data and was paying for unlimited data; the CS rep looked up my account and confirmed that I did indeed had unlimited data, but i had exceeded 5GB and my account would be locked until next billing cycle...

After several weeks of trying to resolve this problem, AT&T was willing to bill me for an unlimited plan as long as I only used 5GB of data..

In the end, after several more weeks of effort, I was able to cancel my AT&T plan and was credited for the early cancellation, but what made this matter worse is the fact that my "best" option at the time for data usage was Sprint... I should sue AT&T for making me deal with Sprint for the last two years... gawd, Sprint really sucks.

As these media companies try to merge, one of the requirements to approval should be offering an unlimited level of data and at a higher rate of speed than what we as a nation "enjoy."


Thanks for telling this story. I'll be sure to avoid AT&T when I switch wireless carriers later this year.

Verizon did something similar when I upgraded my phone, except they made me accept a cap to get 4G service, and my bill was too high. Even though they lowered the amount to be more competitive, I'm still switching if I can get a better deal.
 
2014-06-08 10:21:50 AM  
I hate people who try to bedazzle us with BS - and forward articles that are just corporate mumbo-jumbo without even understanding the 'science' and 'reality' themselves.

Net Neutrality has worked up until now very well, thank you.  Now corporations are trying to get their greedy hands in the cookie jar.
 
2014-06-08 10:59:04 AM  
All I want to know is; will youporn load faster?
 
2014-06-08 11:26:09 AM  

jpo2269: Back in 20y05 I signed up for Cingular's unlimited data plan for their wifi service.


I'm still trying to wrap my head around this part.
 
2014-06-08 11:40:38 AM  

jpo2269: As great as the Nets are, how can anyone stay neutral????

Back in 20y05 I signed up for Cingular's unlimited data plan for their wifi service. For close to seven years, I had no problem with the service and was happy. Fast forward to 2012, AT&T had acquired Cingular and had discontinued the unlimited plan, but grandfathered current customers as long as they did not upgrade their equipment.

Sadly, in the summer of 2012 my wifi receiver started to fail and was completely undependable.  When it came time to upgrade, I inquired about the opportunity to keep my data plan and was told that was not an option.  Faced with this option, I chose to cancel my service... and not surprisingly, if I didn't choose to cancel my service AT&T would let me keep my unlimited plan...

Fast forward two-three months later and about six days into my current billing cycle, I had no internet access.  When I called AT&T's customer service, I was informed that my internet service had been cut off because I had exceeded 5GB of usage for the billing cycle...When I tried to alert the CS representative that I had unlimited data and was paying for unlimited data; the CS rep looked up my account and confirmed that I did indeed had unlimited data, but i had exceeded 5GB and my account would be locked until next billing cycle...

After several weeks of trying to resolve this problem, AT&T was willing to bill me for an unlimited plan as long as I only used 5GB of data..

In the end, after several more weeks of effort, I was able to cancel my AT&T plan and was credited for the early cancellation, but what made this matter worse is the fact that my "best" option at the time for data usage was Sprint... I should sue AT&T for making me deal with Sprint for the last two years... gawd, Sprint really sucks.

As these media companies try to merge, one of the requirements to approval should be offering an unlimited level of data and at a higher rate of speed than what we as a nation "enjoy."


SBC and bell south owned Cingular together. And they bought at&t wireless around 2004 then in 2006 rebranded it as att wireless

Then in 2006 SBC bought bell south and branded all their companies as att.
 
2014-06-08 02:57:31 PM  

destardi: I hate people who try to bedazzle us with BS - and forward articles that are just corporate mumbo-jumbo without even understanding the 'science' and 'reality' themselves.

Net Neutrality has worked up until now very well, thank you.  Now corporations are trying to get their greedy hands in the cookie jar.


So.. that's pretty much the gist of the article.  It just also includes in the peering agreement facet of things, as somewhere else needing regulation.
 
2014-06-08 03:06:17 PM  
One of these days Comcast is just going to start leaving flaming bags of crap on our doorsteps.
 
2014-06-08 04:06:26 PM  
I drtfa, but I agree with the headline.  Even with net neutrality, peering agreements are common.  When I heard about Netflix paying Comcast I was hoping to find out that it was Netflix's idea; "Hey, we are having trouble with this one route, can we set up peering to get around it?"

Nope, it was more like Netflix: "Hey Comcast, what's up with this route?"
Comcast: "Gee, we would like to look into that, but we just don't have the resources. If you pay for peering, we will."

Even if net neutrality becomes 'law' (note the quotes), ISPs will still have dozens of technical excuses why data isn't flowing freely.
 
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