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(Slate)   Hillary Clinton has been right all along about pretty much everything, according to the new memoir by Hillary Clinton   (slate.com) divider line 84
    More: Obvious, Bill Clinton, memoirs, Defense Secretary Robert Gates, China Seas, Leon Panetta  
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605 clicks; posted to Politics » on 06 Jun 2014 at 9:11 PM (29 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-07 12:37:02 AM  

Somacandra: beakerxf: Of course...her personality is too abrasive to cajole needed compromises out of Congress.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x293] [upload.wikimedia.org image 220x276]

Farker, please. She's actually milquetoast compared to almost everyone who's held the office.  She only 'seems abrasive' because she's female and speaking from a position of power. Americans by and large are still not used to that.


"Farker please" - I like that.

I was only referring to stories I've heard about she's hard on her underlings, but you may be right that there is a gender bias.
 
2014-06-07 12:37:25 AM  
Or maybe you're just a racist.

Or maybe you're just a poopyhead.

Bag it, I'm out, Craigy Ferg is coming on...
 
2014-06-07 12:42:35 AM  

mark12A: It had everything to do with his race. Anybody who seriously questioned Obama's qualifications to be president were summarily dismissed as racists. Nothing more.


They/you deserved it.
 
2014-06-07 12:47:45 AM  

Nemo's Brother: Biden's two big platforms has been as a strong advocate for the continuation of the war on drugs, and the promotion of banks. Usury is currently legal in two states; Nevada and Delaware.  Biden helped bring in the new bankruptcy laws in the middle 2000s that resulted in a record number of bankruptcies.

He is a banker shill and tool of the industrial prison complex that has turned our nation into something that is anything but free and just.

But since he is an asshole you guys like him. Since you're all assholes.  And partisan tools.


The main thing I was referring to was his knowledgeable but cautious take on foreign policy. He knows what he's talking about, and he'd rather see if we can be involved militarily in other countries as little as possible. He's also in favor of some reasonable gun control, such as background checks for private sales.

His domestic stances I don't agree with would be outweighed by Warren's populism. Besides, it's quite silly to blame Delaware state laws on someone like Biden that never held statewide office. Senators don't make laws in their home states, and the only office Biden ever held in Delaware was County Councilman.

It's also quite silly to imply I'm a partisan tool just after I've made statements critical of the presumptive nominee, and explained the qualities I'd like to see in a President instead.

I'm not saying I'd never vote for someone with an (R) after their name, I'm saying that a person I might agree with on more issues than I agree with Hillary on could never make it out of the Republican primaries in the current political climate. That doesn't make me a partisan tool, it makes me someone who is stating their own position relative to the stated Republican platform.
 
2014-06-07 12:49:43 AM  

Nemo's Brother: beakerxf: firefly212: Erm... Iraq, PATRIOT Act, NSA Re-auth... I'm not really on team Hillary if Russ Feingold or Elizabeth Warren run.

I'm not thrilled by a Clinton run either, but in terms of experience, she's better than Warren,   I love what Warren is trying to do in the Senate, but she has zero foreign policy experience and the pundits will jump all over her for it.   I think she can do so much more good staying where she's at.

Hillary has a long and varied experience.   Of course, the Clinton name will alienate some voters and her personality is too abrasive to cajole needed compromises out of Congress.   (Though, I don't think even Jesus could get our current legislature to compromise.)

On paper, Bush Sr. may be the most qualified President of our lifetimes.

He was ok.


Yes, he was ok and as time has gone on history has soften its view on his term.   His decision to pull out of Iraq rather than trying to nation was definitely the right call in hindsight.  Having the balls to raise taxes even though it was political suicide is something we haven't seen in a long time and we have quite the deficit to show for it.

I know experience doesn't equal qualified.  But I have to wonder that of Obama had more political experience before becoming president, how much more he could have accomplished.
 
2014-06-07 12:50:45 AM  

mark12A: He IS the very definition of an Affirmative Action hire.


i.imgur.com
 
2014-06-07 01:00:16 AM  

Nemo's Brother: On paper, Bush Sr. may be the most qualified President of our lifetimes.


On paper, Nixon could give Bush Sr. a run for his money. On paper Nixon may have been the most successful politician of the last half of the 20th century. Reagan got elected Governor with the help of some used-car dealer salesmen. He had almost no prior experience in politics. He got national recognition running against Gerald Ford from the right. Nixon was far more successful than Reagan and for much longer than Bush Sr. Its just that his presidency ended so badly everyone just remembers that part. But Nixon still got Bill Clinton to talk to him about foreign policy by threatening to criticize him in an op-ed. That is serious influence.
 
2014-06-07 01:12:37 AM  

Somacandra: But Nixon still got Bill Clinton to talk to him about foreign policy by threatening to criticize him in an op-ed. That is serious influence.


I really don't understand why. Nixon had an old skool paranoid Cold War mindset regarding foreign policy. Why anyone would suck up to that, not to mention overlook the utter political disgrace, is a bit puzzling.

But then again, Clinton was a center-right leaning policy maker and probably (stupidly) respected Nixon like a lot of people did.
 
2014-06-07 01:14:09 AM  

Somacandra: On paper, Nixon could give Bush Sr. a run for his money. On paper Nixon may have been the most successful politician of the last half of the 20th century. Reagan got elected Governor with the help of some used-car dealer salesmen. He had almost no prior experience in politics. He got national recognition running against Gerald Ford from the right. Nixon was far more successful than Reagan and for much longer than Bush Sr. Its just that his presidency ended so badly everyone just remembers that part. But Nixon still got Bill Clinton to talk to him about foreign policy by threatening to criticize him in an op-ed. That is serious influence.


Nixon did some really good things, like sign into law the EPA and get us out of Vietnam. Nixon also did some horrible things with long-lasting consequences, like sign into law HMO's. His presidency up until Watergate was kind of a wash as far accomplishments go in my opinion, but I don't know that a different person would have done the same good things he did, and might have done more bad things..
 
2014-06-07 02:06:09 AM  

Mrbogey: Hillary Clinton is the end product of the American political system. A resume of pablum marketed to folks who are slowly convinced it's good enough. A vane petty egotistical amoralist who should never be given any measure of power.


For whom do you plan on voting?
 
2014-06-07 02:13:46 AM  

acohn: Mrbogey: Hillary Clinton is the end product of the American political system. A resume of pablum marketed to folks who are slowly convinced it's good enough. A vane petty egotistical amoralist who should never be given any measure of power.

For whom do you plan on voting?


Well, y'see, both sides are bad, so...
 
2014-06-07 02:34:58 AM  

ox45tallboy: Somacandra: On paper, Nixon could give Bush Sr. a run for his money. On paper Nixon may have been the most successful politician of the last half of the 20th century. Reagan got elected Governor with the help of some used-car dealer salesmen. He had almost no prior experience in politics. He got national recognition running against Gerald Ford from the right. Nixon was far more successful than Reagan and for much longer than Bush Sr. Its just that his presidency ended so badly everyone just remembers that part. But Nixon still got Bill Clinton to talk to him about foreign policy by threatening to criticize him in an op-ed. That is serious influence.

Nixon did some really good things, like sign into law the EPA and get us out of Vietnam. Nixon also did some horrible things with long-lasting consequences, like sign into law HMO's. His presidency up until Watergate was kind of a wash as far accomplishments go in my opinion, but I don't know that a different person would have done the same good things he did, and might have done more bad things..


Nixon actually kept us in Vietnam longer than we had to be, and ultimately settled with the North Vietnamese on the exact same terms that were there to be had in 1968.
 
2014-06-07 02:50:11 AM  

forgotmydamnusername: Nixon actually kept us in Vietnam longer than we had to be, and ultimately settled with the North Vietnamese on the exact same terms that were there to be had in 1968.


And Obama could have gotten us out of Iraq and Afghanistan sooner as well. The point is that the other guy would have kept us there, and it worked out better than it could have.
 
2014-06-07 02:57:58 AM  

forgotmydamnusername: ox45tallboy: Somacandra: On paper, Nixon could give Bush Sr. a run for his money. On paper Nixon may have been the most successful politician of the last half of the 20th century. Reagan got elected Governor with the help of some used-car dealer salesmen. He had almost no prior experience in politics. He got national recognition running against Gerald Ford from the right. Nixon was far more successful than Reagan and for much longer than Bush Sr. Its just that his presidency ended so badly everyone just remembers that part. But Nixon still got Bill Clinton to talk to him about foreign policy by threatening to criticize him in an op-ed. That is serious influence.

Nixon did some really good things, like sign into law the EPA and get us out of Vietnam. Nixon also did some horrible things with long-lasting consequences, like sign into law HMO's. His presidency up until Watergate was kind of a wash as far accomplishments go in my opinion, but I don't know that a different person would have done the same good things he did, and might have done more bad things..

Nixon actually kept us in Vietnam longer than we had to be, and ultimately settled with the North Vietnamese on the exact same terms that were there to be had in 1968.


Not to mention that one of Nixon's big selling points to be elected in '68 was a promise to end the war. Which he made worse.

Oh and I love the "Nixon created the EPA" hindsight. The truth is he had no choice given the state of the country, socially on the verge of collapse.
 
2014-06-07 03:00:51 AM  
Nice to see the Fark Independents exercising some division of labor in these Clinton threads. M12 in this one and CptDan in the other.
 
2014-06-07 04:01:12 AM  
I'll vote for her, unless Mr. Biden promises, as president, to replace the armored Cadillac limo with an armored '77 Firebird. Then everything's on the table.
 
2014-06-07 04:32:57 AM  
This just in - those who prefer being slapped in the face repeatedly with a halibut to being raped by a syphlitic baboon tend to vote Democrat.
 
2014-06-07 08:00:01 AM  
2016 America is ready for a documented lair, possibly alcoholic,with a very poor memory of current events.
Wall Street loves her ( bought a paid off by Goldman Sachs)
Main Street loves her (populist speech and the black kid on her knee/ may substitute Hispanic/Mexican child in southwestern states.)

Fark the rest of the world we have a quota to fill.

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
 
2014-06-07 08:51:51 AM  
But Robert Gates' memoir was the defining dissertation on Obama's inner circle
 
2014-06-07 08:53:42 AM  
When has Clinton ever taking a risky or unpopular position about anything? Her entire political career after the "Hillarycare" thing (which her actual involvement in was overblown; it was less about her being involved than Congress being left out of the sausage making process that doomed the bill) she's been one of the most risk-averse politicians in Washington. She never coauthored any bills in the Senate besides things like naming post offices. She never tried the sort of overt and costly efforts to broker a peace deal with Iran or settle the Israel/Palestinian situation that Kerry has been doing since he took over at State.

She keeps a holding pattern and hopes that it is enough that she avoids having things blow up on her. While there is definitely an argument to be made that America could use less push for risky policies and maintaining a holding pattern, I don't think that's enough to justify and win her the support she wants though.
 
2014-06-07 09:01:03 AM  

mark12A: Ditto for Iran. The rest of the Middle East will arm up with nukes because the Obamessiah's admin doesn't seem interested AT ALL at stopping Iran from getting nukes. At some point Israel will pre-empt to prevent their own destruction. And the Middle East will blow up. All because of eight years of Amateur Night at the White House.


Really? They have less than a fifth of the weapons grade nuclear materials they would need to build even one bomb, and that number has been falling, not rising, since we brokered a deal with them back in November.
 
2014-06-07 10:02:42 AM  
a1.mzstatic.com
 
2014-06-07 10:06:49 AM  
My Wife has been right all along about pretty much everything, according to the new memoir by My Wife
 
2014-06-07 10:18:26 AM  

Fark It: At one point she writes, "Your critics can actually teach you lessons your friends can't or won't. I try to sort out the motivation for criticism whether partisan, ideological, commercial, or sexist, analyze it to see what I might learn from it, and discard the rest." It would have been fascinating to see some evidence of this in the book.

Kind of surprising to see this kind of assessment of a Hillary product from Slate.  I wonder how long it will take for someone to call the author a misogynist.

It sounds like the book is a banal, by-the-numbers corporate product that exists for boomers to swoon over.  Like a Hillary Clinton campaign....


img.fark.net
 
2014-06-07 11:15:20 AM  

ox45tallboy: forgotmydamnusername: Nixon actually kept us in Vietnam longer than we had to be, and ultimately settled with the North Vietnamese on the exact same terms that were there to be had in 1968.

And Obama could have gotten us out of Iraq and Afghanistan sooner as well. The point is that the other guy would have kept us there, and it worked out better than it could have.


Nixon actually had Kissinger sabotage the '68 talks, in exchange for a post in his administration when he won. Humphrey would have had us out sooner. Nixon even illegally expanded the war into Laos and Cambodia. Obama did kill OBL in Pakistan, and there have been a few cross-border drone strikes, but the scale is not even remotely close to Nixon's wholesale carpet bombings and incursions.
 
2014-06-07 11:28:56 AM  

acohn: Mrbogey: Hillary Clinton is the end product of the American political system. A resume of pablum marketed to folks who are slowly convinced it's good enough. A vane petty egotistical amoralist who should never be given any measure of power.

For whom do you plan on voting?


Hopefully someone not named clinton. She is absolutely everything that was described in that post.
 
2014-06-07 11:50:02 AM  

make me some tea: Fark It: At one point she writes, "Your critics can actually teach you lessons your friends can't or won't. I try to sort out the motivation for criticism whether partisan, ideological, commercial, or sexist, analyze it to see what I might learn from it, and discard the rest." It would have been fascinating to see some evidence of this in the book.

Kind of surprising to see this kind of assessment of a Hillary product from Slate.  I wonder how long it will take for someone to call the author a misogynist.

It sounds like the book is a banal, by-the-numbers corporate product that exists for boomers to swoon over.  Like a Hillary Clinton campaign....

I know plenty of people would like to see Hillary be President, but I've personally never been too thrilled with her. I'll hold my nose and vote for her anyway I guess.


Same here. I feel like the 2008 election was sort of bait and switch. I voted for Obama, but I got Hillary anyway, and I'm not just talking about the ACA instead of single payer. He took a rightward step right into Hillary's platform. That said, it's still better than what we had or anything that a candidate from the current Republican Party would give us. And I am looking at you, Supreme Court.
 
2014-06-07 12:21:03 PM  

ox45tallboy: forgotmydamnusername: Nixon actually kept us in Vietnam longer than we had to be, and ultimately settled with the North Vietnamese on the exact same terms that were there to be had in 1968.

And Obama could have gotten us out of Iraq and Afghanistan sooner as well. The point is that the other guy would have kept us there, and it worked out better than it could have.


Actually, no. Nixon sabotaged the negotiated peace efforts in 1968 because it would be to his political benefit if we remained in the war, by calling the South Vietnamese and promising they would get a better deal if he became President than if they agreed to a peace deal then. The North Vietnamese had made concessions, and the South would have accepted that and struck a deal had Nixon not interfered. The South walked out entirely due to Nixon's representations. His interference at that point was directly and solely responsible for the war continuing as long as it did, and he is singularly responsible for every death in that war after 1968. Had it not been for Nixon committing treason (which is not too strong a word), we would have been out under Johnson's leadership. Johnson knew about it, and the reason we've learned so much recently is that the White House tapes of him discussing it were just recently released. Johnson made the decision, in consultation with Humphrey, to not release the evidence because it would be incredibly disruptive to the country, and because at the time, it looked like Democrats were going to win anyway.
 
2014-06-07 12:37:08 PM  

acohn: or whom do you plan on voting?


Who do we got?
 
2014-06-07 01:51:51 PM  
Sarah Pal- wait hold on
Chris Chris- ummm hang on a sec
Mitt Rahahahahahahahah, sorry I couldn't get through that one
Rick Santorum
Ted Cruz

Take your choice!
 
2014-06-07 02:05:33 PM  

Eddie Barzoom: Sarah Pal- wait hold on
Chris Chris- ummm hang on a sec
Mitt Rahahahahahahahah, sorry I couldn't get through that one
Rick Santorum
Ted Cruz

Take your choice!


This is the problem with people complaining about Obama. Sure, he has some deficiencies. Who was he running against, though? Pandering farkhead corporate criminal Romney? The clueless, impulsive, morally bankrupt, unhealthy old codger McCain, with the vindictive, paranoid and stupid demagogue Sarah Palin waiting in the wings? Jeb Bush vs. Obama in 2012 might have been a tossup for me, despite the unfortunate last name. That isn't what we got.
 
2014-06-07 08:59:41 PM  

Mrbogey: acohn: or whom do you plan on voting?

Who do we got?


Realistically, what we got is a figurehead, no matter who runs.  This country's now a corporatocracy.
 
2014-06-07 09:18:16 PM  

acohn: Mrbogey: acohn: or whom do you plan on voting?

Who do we got?

Realistically, what we got is a figurehead, no matter who runs.  This country's now a corporatocracy.


Here's who I am voting for:
c1.staticflickr.com
She's patriotic, and I like her stance on shipping.
 
2014-06-08 06:13:25 AM  

Snarfangel: acohn: Mrbogey: acohn: or whom do you plan on voting?

Who do we got?

Realistically, what we got is a figurehead, no matter who runs.  This country's now a corporatocracy.

Here's who I am voting for:

She's patriotic, and I like her stance on shipping.


She looks fat.
 
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