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(Some Oreganja)   Honors student wrestler kicked out of prom & banned from graduation for being 'high' when he wasn't will get his own prom from radio station to go with his life lesson in Kafka   (alphabroadcasting.com) divider line 49
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8815 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Jun 2014 at 7:45 PM (29 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-04 05:43:11 PM  
Big deal. We all thought going to our graduation was a farking chore. Everyone should skip and party with this kid instead.
 
2014-06-04 05:54:42 PM  
The important thing is that school administrators demonstrate absolute iron fisted control over the student body, so that their charges will be ready to join a free society that tolerates diversity and differences of opinion.
 
2014-06-04 07:47:23 PM  
Link farked?
 
2014-06-04 07:48:34 PM  
said administrators and a school police officer harassed and pressured him into confessing

Now I want to know where your parents and lawyer were during all this.

/unless he was 18 already
//in which case...
///school and cops still shouldn't do that but it's legal
 
2014-06-04 07:53:01 PM  
Do not confess to anything you did not actually do. Just let them do their worst, survive it if you can, and prepare your civil suit.
 
2014-06-04 07:57:03 PM  
cdn0.sbnation.com
 
2014-06-04 07:57:09 PM  

Fark like a Barsoomian: said administrators and a school police officer harassed and pressured him into confessing

Now I want to know where your parents and lawyer were during all this.

/unless he was 18 already
//in which case...
///school and cops still shouldn't do that but it's legal


School kids, pretty much, don't have rights while in school. Plus, I'm betting the school resource officer probably didn't mirandize the kid; or did mirandize the kid, but said that they wanted to clear things up without contacting the kid's parents or something. Cops are allowed to misrepresent the truth when questioning a suspect.

/ You see this kind of stuff in a lot of cases where the accused person is brow-beaten into signing a confession. They don't realize that they can leave and they don't have to talk to the cops.
 
2014-06-04 07:57:22 PM  
Confessing to a crime you didn't commit is always a terrible idea. Why would you EVER do that? The only time it could ever, possibly, make sense is after your criminally charged, and you have consulted with an attorney... He is a highschool senior, unless he has some mental handicap, he shouldn't have had a problem resisting what ever pressure was being applied. Its not like they were water boarding him.

Also, a drug test 4 days later may not detect it even if he was high and confessed to something he did do. TFA doesn't say what drug he confessed to using, or whether the test used would be likely to detect it given the time elapsed.
 
2014-06-04 08:00:14 PM  
My HS threatened to revoke a diploma from anyone who handed the principal a golf ball (or anything else) on stage during the handshake (as had been the tradition for 30 some odd f*cking years).  It could have just as easily been handled with, "Students, we aren't doing that golf ball thing anymore."  Nobody even gave a sh*t about it--it was a faculty driven prank.
 
2014-06-04 08:00:17 PM  

iheartscotch: Fark like a Barsoomian: said administrators and a school police officer harassed and pressured him into confessing

Now I want to know where your parents and lawyer were during all this.

/unless he was 18 already
//in which case...
///school and cops still shouldn't do that but it's legal

School kids, pretty much, don't have rights while in school. Plus, I'm betting the school resource officer probably didn't mirandize the kid; or did mirandize the kid, but said that they wanted to clear things up without contacting the kid's parents or something. Cops are allowed to misrepresent the truth when questioning a suspect.

/ You see this kind of stuff in a lot of cases where the accused person is brow-beaten into signing a confession. They don't realize that they can leave and they don't have to talk to the cops.


You should know your constitutional rights by the time you are a highschool senior, whether the school taught them to you, or your parents did, or if the first 2 failed, you taught yourself because you wanted to know the basics of the country you live in.
 
2014-06-04 08:00:54 PM  
Weird, I haven't heard anything about this, and I live in Portland.
 
2014-06-04 08:02:03 PM  
Right.  He confessed to being high when he wasn't.

Instead of, for example, him actually being high or drunk, and then realizing that 4 days later, he was able to pass a drug test since whatever drug he took wouldn't have shown up 4 days later.
 
2014-06-04 08:02:04 PM  

Monty845: Confessing to a crime you didn't commit is always a terrible idea. Why would you EVER do that?


Authority figures abusing children, yadda yadda...
 
2014-06-04 08:03:41 PM  
I take comfort in the likelihood that these administrators will end up in 'zero tolerance' nursing homes.
 
2014-06-04 08:08:28 PM  

Monty845: iheartscotch: Fark like a Barsoomian: said administrators and a school police officer harassed and pressured him into confessing

Now I want to know where your parents and lawyer were during all this.

/unless he was 18 already
//in which case...
///school and cops still shouldn't do that but it's legal

School kids, pretty much, don't have rights while in school. Plus, I'm betting the school resource officer probably didn't mirandize the kid; or did mirandize the kid, but said that they wanted to clear things up without contacting the kid's parents or something. Cops are allowed to misrepresent the truth when questioning a suspect.

/ You see this kind of stuff in a lot of cases where the accused person is brow-beaten into signing a confession. They don't realize that they can leave and they don't have to talk to the cops.

You should know your constitutional rights by the time you are a highschool senior, whether the school taught them to you, or your parents did, or if the first 2 failed, you taught yourself because you wanted to know the basics of the country you live in.


Should isn't must or will. Besides, the Miranda rule/warning itself isn't actually in the constitution. It's a much more recent Supreme Court ruling.

Basically, The Miranda warning is part of a preventive criminal procedure rule that law enforcement is required to administer to protect an individual who is in custody and subject to direct questioning or its functional equivalent from a violation of his or her Fifth Amendment right against compelled self-incrimination. In Miranda v. Arizona, the Supreme Court held that the admission of an elicited incriminating statement by a suspect not informed of these rights violates the Fifth Amendment and the Sixth Amendment right to counsel.
 
2014-06-04 08:09:25 PM  
Don't be my high school. Don't be my high school. Don't be my...GODDAMMITSOMUCH. Apparently, some things just don't change, even nearly thirty years on.
 
2014-06-04 08:12:05 PM  

thamike: Monty845: Confessing to a crime you didn't commit is always a terrible idea. Why would you EVER do that?

Authority figures abusing children, yadda yadda...


"Just admit your high and we'll let you back in and forget this whole silly thing."

"Ok, I'm high. "

" cuff 'im. "
 
2014-06-04 08:13:57 PM  

iheartscotch: Monty845: iheartscotch: Fark like a Barsoomian: said administrators and a school police officer harassed and pressured him into confessing

Now I want to know where your parents and lawyer were during all this.

/unless he was 18 already
//in which case...
///school and cops still shouldn't do that but it's legal

School kids, pretty much, don't have rights while in school. Plus, I'm betting the school resource officer probably didn't mirandize the kid; or did mirandize the kid, but said that they wanted to clear things up without contacting the kid's parents or something. Cops are allowed to misrepresent the truth when questioning a suspect.

/ You see this kind of stuff in a lot of cases where the accused person is brow-beaten into signing a confession. They don't realize that they can leave and they don't have to talk to the cops.

You should know your constitutional rights by the time you are a highschool senior, whether the school taught them to you, or your parents did, or if the first 2 failed, you taught yourself because you wanted to know the basics of the country you live in.

Should isn't must or will. Besides, the Miranda rule/warning itself isn't actually in the constitution. It's a much more recent Supreme Court ruling.

Basically, The Miranda warning is part of a preventive criminal procedure rule that law enforcement is required to administer to protect an individual who is in custody and subject to direct questioning or its functional equivalent from a violation of his or her Fifth Amendment right against compelled self-incrimination. In Miranda v. Arizona, the Supreme Court held that the admission of an elicited incriminating statement by a suspect not informed of these rights violates the Fifth Amendment and the Sixth Amendment right to counsel.


Interesting you should bring that up today.  As I was driving my son to school, he was cramming for a history test on the Bill of Rights and we discussed the Fifth.  I told him "if cops question you, you're not obligated to answer them."  He said, "won't that make them mad?"

I answered, "sure, it might, but what would you rather have a mad cop or risk going to jail for what you said?"

As said above, authority figures have an unfair advantage over kids, and many take full advantage.
 
2014-06-04 08:20:44 PM  

2chris2: Right.  He confessed to being high when he wasn't.

Instead of, for example, him actually being high or drunk, and then realizing that 4 days later, he was able to pass a drug test since whatever drug he took wouldn't have shown up 4 days later.


Broad generalization, but captain of the wrestling team, who's also an honor student and has never been in trouble before is to me, more likely than not, not high and just sick of some frustrated cop yelling in his face and threatening him.  He also probably realizes that, given his last name, they're not going to let anything go until they get SOMEbody to "fess up"....
 
2014-06-04 08:23:59 PM  
To be fair, South Salem High School is more known for their Mexicans rather than drugs, it's not McNary High School, after all.
 
2014-06-04 08:33:37 PM  
Kids, listen up: YOU DON'T REALLY NEED TO GO TO ANY OF THESE THINGS.
 
2014-06-04 08:38:09 PM  
Kafka? the "We too have weapons" guy?
 
2014-06-04 08:40:44 PM  
Reading that headline was Kafka-esque, subby.
 
2014-06-04 08:41:26 PM  
junket89  To be fair, South Salem High School is more known for their Mexicans rather than drugs, it's not McNary High School, after all.


Villareal?  Pretty sure the kid's Mexican...
 
2014-06-04 08:42:01 PM  

Ex-Texan: Kafka? the "We too have weapons" guy?


Kefka?  The guy who destroyed the world using three goddess statues on a floating island?
 
2014-06-04 08:44:41 PM  
What would be fun is if the entire student body boycotted the grad walk in solidarity, then all went to his party instead of the prom.
 
2014-06-04 08:44:47 PM  
Just think about it.

If we used common sense by staffing a school board the equivalent of becoming a doctor, with years of grueling schooling and internship so only the best of the best get the job the very important job of educating our children, we'd have ended war, famine, disease and be exploring the galaxy by now.

Unfortunately, we don't take it seriously enough and we wind up with two-bit, slimy pandering politicians running the show with zero knowledge of what it takes to educate a child.

Farkin' wastes of oxygen.
 
2014-06-04 08:45:55 PM  

Billy Liar: 2chris2: Right.  He confessed to being high when he wasn't.

Instead of, for example, him actually being high or drunk, and then realizing that 4 days later, he was able to pass a drug test since whatever drug he took wouldn't have shown up 4 days later.

Broad generalization, but captain of the wrestling team, who's also an honor student and has never been in trouble before is to me, more likely than not, not high and just sick of some frustrated cop yelling in his face and threatening him.  He also probably realizes that, given his last name, they're not going to let anything go until they get SOMEbody to "fess up"....


More like this, yes.  What with the general habits of school administrators and police officers in the US, I've always felt a little skeevy about placing cops in schools at the direction of the Principal.
 
2014-06-04 08:49:50 PM  

FlyingJ: Villareal?  Pretty sure the kid's Mexican...


Oregon was once part of mexico before it was seized by a batch of Putinistic wankers
 
2014-06-04 08:55:16 PM  

big pig peaches: thamike: Monty845: Confessing to a crime you didn't commit is always a terrible idea. Why would you EVER do that?

Authority figures abusing children, yadda yadda...

"Just admit your high and we'll let you back in and forget this whole silly thing."

"Ok, I'm high. "

" cuff 'im. "


Basically.  He could probably sue them for coercion on multiple levels.  It will unfortunately stain his adulthood though.
 
2014-06-04 08:55:49 PM  
Sure... Kid just hot up the local head shop and got some masking agent.
 
2014-06-04 09:02:37 PM  

Slartibartfaster: FlyingJ: Villareal?  Pretty sure the kid's Mexican...

Oregon was once part of mexico before it was seized by a batch of Putinistic wankers


Before the US claimed it, Britain was claiming it.  Mexico went up to the southern border, though.
 
2014-06-04 09:04:11 PM  
Whenever I was at highschool and was accused of being high, I was high.

I never admitted it, but I would have been rippered I can guarantee it.

Dude was high.
 
2014-06-04 09:16:54 PM  

rkiller1: Interesting you should bring that up today. As I was driving my son to school, he was cramming for a history test on the Bill of Rights and we discussed the Fifth. I told him "if cops question you, you're not obligated to answer them." He said, "won't that make them mad?"


Tell him in a cops world people refuse to answer questions all the time.  As in you know what a cop thinks when people keep talking even though it's obvious the cop is trying to get them to admit to something bad?

"Winning"
 
2014-06-04 10:16:09 PM  
To piggyback off others before me... "I can tell you're a bright kid, and you've got your head on your shoulders. This all gets a lot messier if you don't confess. I've got three of your buddies who all said they saw you get high, plus there's the school surveillance camera, so you're really not going to get out of this. Trust me; it's best to nip this in the bud now."

When a smart kid who's never been in serious trouble is faced with this situation from a cop, all the constitutional law/criminal procedure training in the world goes straight out the window and the offered "path of least resistance" becomes incredibly attractive.
 
2014-06-04 10:36:49 PM  
Sad, but I teach every one of my kids to say " I want my mom and I want a lawyer" and nothing eels.
 
2014-06-04 10:38:32 PM  
So the question I have is: What did he do in the first place that made them THINK he was high? The article makes it sound like they just pounced on him in the hallway and said "Were you high? Confess! Confess!" and he said "Yes, yes, I was high!"

He had to have done something, this honor student with no prior history of trouble with the police. Just because he "got high" (when? where? under what circumstances?) wouldn't ban him from graduation, without something more.
 
2014-06-04 10:43:12 PM  

Duke_leto_Atredes: Sad, but I teach every one of my kids to say " I want my mom and I want a lawyer" and nothing eels.


Well, yeah - you start mentioning eels in that situation and they're likely to beat the schitt out of you for being mentally ill.
 
2014-06-04 10:51:48 PM  

Duke_leto_Atredes: Sad, but I teach every one of my kids to say " I want my mom and I want a lawyer" and nothing eels.


Man, I hate it when the eels don't show up.
 
2014-06-04 11:02:12 PM  

thamike: Duke_leto_Atredes: Sad, but I teach every one of my kids to say " I want my mom and I want a lawyer" and nothing eels.

Man, I hate it when the eels don't show up.


It's when the lawyer gets all tingly that you have to worry.

// then ask the cop for his hovercraft.
 
2014-06-04 11:41:21 PM  

thamike: Duke_leto_Atredes: Sad, but I teach every one of my kids to say " I want my mom and I want a lawyer" and nothing eels.

Man, I hate it when the eels don't show up.


what i get for drinking and typing, need more rum.
 
2014-06-04 11:43:47 PM  

Monty845: You should know your constitutional rights by the time you are a highschool senior, whether the school taught them to you, or your parents did, or if the first 2 failed, you taught yourself because you wanted to know the basics of the country you live in.


It has been proven time and time again that students do not have certain constitutional rights while in school.

big pig peaches: "Just admit your high and we'll let you back in and forget this whole silly thing."

"Ok, I'm high. "

" cuff 'im. "


This is quite likely what happened.  Of course he was also quite likely high.

Billy Liar: Broad generalization, but captain of the wrestling team, who's also an honor student and has never been in trouble before is to me, more likely than not, not high and just sick of some frustrated cop yelling in his face and threatening him.


Unless HS has changed a lot in the last 20 years, I would disagree.  Captains of most sports and a good portion of honor roll students got high all the time when I was in school.

//If Donna Martin was allowed to graduate, this kid should be also.
 
2014-06-05 12:04:32 AM  

Monty845: Confessing to a crime you didn't commit is always a terrible idea. Why would you EVER do that? The only time it could ever, possibly, make sense is after your criminally charged, and you have consulted with an attorney... He is a highschool senior, unless he has some mental handicap, he shouldn't have had a problem resisting what ever pressure was being applied. Its not like they were water boarding him.

Also, a drug test 4 days later may not detect it even if he was high and confessed to something he did do. TFA doesn't say what drug he confessed to using, or whether the test used would be likely to detect it given the time elapsed.


As an attorney, I can tell you without hesitation that a lot of confessions are gathered by the police (official) simply lying to the subject with the "promise" that no consequences will result from such a confession.  Like a "hey, tell you what - you tell what you were really doing and I pinky swear, no one will be the wiser and you can get back to sneaking a feel on the dance floor with your date.  Once the confession has been secured, the Supreme Court has already ruled that the police do not have to keep their promise nor are there are any consequences from them lying to get you to confess.  Frazier v. Cupp, 394 U.S. 731, 1969.

Thus, your confession is admissible even if you didn't really mean it and just uttered the words relying on the promise that all would be forgotten or forgiven if you just 'fessed up.   Most of us are taught from an early age that Police are there to help and wouldn't lie and that results in a lot of people (who are innocent) relying upon the promises of police and as a result give a false confession based on those promises.  Only later they learn the truth and the deceit behind what they were tricked into doing.
 
2014-06-05 12:41:43 AM  

2chris2: Right.  He confessed to being high when he wasn't.

Instead of, for example, him actually being high or drunk, and then realizing that 4 days later, he was able to pass a drug test since whatever drug he took wouldn't have shown up 4 days later.


Except he was specifically accused of smoking pot, which is detectable by a drug test for 2-3 weeks afterward.
 
2014-06-05 01:58:37 AM  
Lots of drugs flush out in less than 4 days.
 
2014-06-05 09:04:20 AM  

twiztedjustin: Lots of drugs flush out in less than 4 days.


Not pot, which is what they accused him of.
 
2014-06-05 09:57:25 AM  
Translation:  He got high on meth/heroin or something, someone noticed he was acting goofy as hell, he confessed to weed as the lesser offense, and got kicked out.  When he sobered up, his rich family and attorney had him take a test for weed.  Everyone be outraged.
 
2014-06-05 12:26:36 PM  

kevlar51: To piggyback off others before me... "I can tell you're a bright kid, and you've got your head on your shoulders. This all gets a lot messier if you don't confess. I've got three of your buddies who all said they saw you get high, plus there's the school surveillance camera, so you're really not going to get out of this. Trust me; it's best to nip this in the bud now."

When a smart kid who's never been in serious trouble is faced with this situation from a cop, all the constitutional law/criminal procedure training in the world goes straight out the window and the offered "path of least resistance" becomes incredibly attractive.


This, when I 18, I was seized from behind by a cop, and arrested in a case of mistaken identity. At the time, I was too scared out of my mind to protest the cop's treatment of me, even after I found out that I, in fact, looked NOTHING like the guy they were after. The civics class I took in high school meant nothing in the face of having a cop twice my size telling me I'm going to jail. It took everything i had to keep enough of my wits about me to ask him to double-check the suspect's description and picture.

That's when I found out the guy they were looking for was nearly a foot taller than me, twice my weight, different hair and eye color, and had tattoos. Still, I was too scared to demand a lawyer or my own release, because he insisted I was in still trouble for "talking back" to him (specifically, when I "demanded" he check my IDs to prove I was who I said I was).

It wasn't until much later that I came to me senses enough to realize the cop had committed multiple violations, but I had been too scared to get his name or badge number, and thus could not follow up with a complaint against him.
 
2014-06-05 12:53:32 PM  
The one good thing about this thread is it has reminded me to have a conversation with my sons.  They're both young (oldest is 11), but they're getting close to the age where they could have interactions with cops.  I will tell them:

If you are talking to a cop and they are investigating something they think you are involved in ask if you are under arrest.  If not, ask if you are free to go.  If yes, leave.  If not say you want a lawyer.

If you are accused of anything by a cop, don't say anything other than I want a lawyer.

If a cop says to admit to something and things will go easier for you, don't admit to it (even if you did it) and ask for a lawyer.

If a cop tells you they will let you off with a warning if you admit to something they are lying.  Ask for a lawyer.

//None of the above applies to non-alcohol related traffic stops.
 
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