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(Washington Post)   Washington D.C. unveils its new long-term transportation plan: Walk and bike everywhere, trolley-troll-troll, and tax the bejeesus out of drivers   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 40
    More: Stupid, transit method, bus lanes, Metrorail, Street NW, New York Avenue, transportation, Navy Yard, entry point  
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3115 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Jun 2014 at 9:59 AM (15 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-04 10:13:55 AM
4 votes:

Trail of Dead: Stupid? Why is this stupid?


You're supposed to build ever widening highways to an ever expanding web of roads to distant suburbs that are too low density to be effectively serviced by mass transsit, so when the roads get clogged you build more roads, and then widen them, and then build more until finally you've got too many choke points to accommodate any further growth and end up with a city characterized by long, miserable and expensive driving commutes that is completely unsuitable for adapting to mass transit.

It's the American way.
2014-06-04 08:23:49 AM
4 votes:
Public transit is much better than driving if it is frequent enough and goes within a couple of blocks of your destination.
2014-06-04 09:56:46 AM
3 votes:
Driving in DC is a horrible experience anyway. Even on its worst, Metro-derailed day, I'd rather take the public transit.
2014-06-04 08:43:05 AM
3 votes:
Sounds like a smart plan, unless you're the type to drive down to your own mailbox.
2014-06-04 10:53:42 AM
2 votes:
www.strangecosmos.com
Meanwhile, In the Netherlands......
2014-06-04 10:31:52 AM
2 votes:
Sounds like a plan thought up by high level federal workers (congress/senate) to clear the streets of undesirables taking up their valuable limo space.
2014-06-04 10:22:33 AM
2 votes:
Is there anything liberals can't figure out how to tax?
2014-06-04 10:19:18 AM
2 votes:

jehovahs witness protection: Rapmaster2000: jehovahs witness protection: I avoid the hell out of areas with public transit.
They are all shiatholes.

You sound poor.

No, I can afford gas for my 12 MPG truck and can also afford a nice home in a decent area.
The poors ride mass transit.


No, you live in Loganville.  People live in rural towns because they can't afford to live anywhere good.
2014-06-04 10:05:43 AM
2 votes:

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Driving in DC is a horrible experience anyway. Even on its worst, Metro-derailed day, I'd rather take the public transit.


This.  DC is worse than almost any other American city I've ever driven in.  I refuse to do it anymore.  MARC from Odenton to Union Station will get you anywhere you want in the city.
2014-06-04 09:14:40 AM
2 votes:
In order to make public transit work in this city you will need better density, in short raise the FARKING HEIGHT LIMIT
2014-06-04 12:15:34 PM
1 votes:
if you live in a sprawling suburb, you are the problem.
2014-06-04 11:28:27 AM
1 votes:

LazyMedia: Geotpf: EvilEgg: Public transit is much better than driving if it is frequent enough and goes within a couple of blocks of your destination.

False.

For most people, transit is notably inferior to a private vehicle.

The two main problems are:

1. You can't carry a week's worth of groceries on the bus or subway.
2. Public transit doesn't start in my garage, leaves the exact moment I want to leave (even at 3 am in the morning), and goes exactly to my destination.

That's not to say that it doesn't have advantages:

It can be cheaper (especially if you manage to get by without a car at all).  In heavily urban areas with grade separated rail, heavy traffic, and minimal parking, it can be faster.  Especially in a commuting situation, the stress of not having to drive and the ability to do other things (read, work or play on a laptop, sleep) is an advantage.  The reduction of pollution and use of oil by not driving alone is a good thing for society at large.  People who lack the ability to drive (the elderly, the very young, the handicapped, the blind) gain mobility due to the availability of transit.

But there's a reason most people drive to work (and to the store, etc.); it simply works better for them.

This. Public transportation is a great substitute for walking, in places where walking is better than driving/parking (Manhattan and central DC would be two places that qualify). It is a poor substitute for driving in places where driving is viable. I rode my bike to work in DC because there was no parking; otherwise I probably would have driven. Public transportation SHOULD be subsidized (and driving should be taxed), because of the societal benefits, but it's not ever going to be as good as hopping in the car and driving straight to your destination.


I agree.  Manhattan or DC are the "heavily urban areas" I mentioned earlier, and I'm all for subsidizing transit everywhere (in heavily urban areas and elsewhere).  My main point was that, outside said heavily urban areas, transit is inferior to driving in almost all situations, contrary to what EvilEgg said, which is why, outside heavily urban areas, few non-poor people who are physically and legally able to drive use it.
2014-06-04 11:19:43 AM
1 votes:
Can't believe I'm the first:

img3.wikia.nocookie.net

cdn.pjmedia.com

My commute is entirely within Maryland (albeit never more than a couple miles from the DC line).  It involves a buck sixty each way on buses whose drivers who know me and smile at me. I abhor the driving commute; parking is at least seven bucks, and it's not like I save more than five minutes since I'm taking the exact same route as the bus.

Too bad for those carbound fools who bought a McMansion on a quarter acre forty miles out during the height of the housing boom.
2014-06-04 11:15:54 AM
1 votes:

Geotpf: EvilEgg: Public transit is much better than driving if it is frequent enough and goes within a couple of blocks of your destination.

False.

For most people, transit is notably inferior to a private vehicle.

The two main problems are:

1. You can't carry a week's worth of groceries on the bus or subway.
2. Public transit doesn't start in my garage, leaves the exact moment I want to leave (even at 3 am in the morning), and goes exactly to my destination.

That's not to say that it doesn't have advantages:

It can be cheaper (especially if you manage to get by without a car at all).  In heavily urban areas with grade separated rail, heavy traffic, and minimal parking, it can be faster.  Especially in a commuting situation, the stress of not having to drive and the ability to do other things (read, work or play on a laptop, sleep) is an advantage.  The reduction of pollution and use of oil by not driving alone is a good thing for society at large.  People who lack the ability to drive (the elderly, the very young, the handicapped, the blind) gain mobility due to the availability of transit.

But there's a reason most people drive to work (and to the store, etc.); it simply works better for them.


This. Public transportation is a great substitute for walking, in places where walking is better than driving/parking (Manhattan and central DC would be two places that qualify). It is a poor substitute for driving in places where driving is viable. I rode my bike to work in DC because there was no parking; otherwise I probably would have driven. Public transportation SHOULD be subsidized (and driving should be taxed), because of the societal benefits, but it's not ever going to be as good as hopping in the car and driving straight to your destination.
2014-06-04 11:06:33 AM
1 votes:

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: I don't understand why major cities don't put bike/walking paths ABOVE current lanes of traffic.  Modern materials allow for sturdy overpasses that would free up a ton of real estate.  You could even do away with street level sidewalks to open up more lanes for cars/buses.


This was actually the vision for Los Angeles about 40 or 50 years ago. The head city planner wanted to turn the city into a series of dense centers connected by roads and low density corridors.  The centers would have walkways elevated above street level.  His idea (if I understand it right) was that those walkways were where life would happen, and the streets would just be transportation.  I've just spent the past 15 minutes trying to find a link to the story I initially read, but I can't seem to find it and I gotta get back to actual work, but - apparently a few of the walkways were actually built in downtown, and they still exist today.  They're apparently surprisingly clean and pleasant to walk around on.
2014-06-04 11:04:51 AM
1 votes:

zedster: In order to make public transit work in this city you will need better density, in short raise the FARKING HEIGHT LIMIT


Density yes, but you don't necessarily need to change the height limit.

Compare D.C. with Paris.  Both national capitols, studded with monuments, museums, embassies, universities, and businesses on top of residences.  Politically speaking, both are city-states separate from the towns in the surrounding suburbs.  D.C. has about 650,000 people in about 60 square miles, in a place where the height limit is a zoning thing; Paris has about 2,250,000 in about 40 square miles, in a place where the height limit is mostly a geological thing.  There used to be more people here - almost 3 million around WWI.

This works in no small part because our transit system works for getting people  around the city even better than getting them into and out of it, whereas just looking at the map you'd think the Washington Metro exists to get government employees from Maryland and NOVA to their office jobs in the center of town and back again.
2014-06-04 10:55:42 AM
1 votes:

mschwenk: Walker: Intrepid00: Walker: How dedicated bike lanes in DC work:


More here:
http://whosblockinglsttoday.tumblr.com/

Pretty sure the sewage truck isn't in the bike lane and you can stop in a dc bike lane to let passengers out but the linked site the guy is complaining about it.

Pretty sure it is in the bike lane. See the thin space to the right of it? That's the divider between the bike lanes and the road. And for the other person who commented I don't know where deliver and service vehicles are supposed to go. I just know they are parked in the bike lanes. And people definitely shouldn't be driving in them or parking in them....or do you have excuses for them too?

Caption for this one below said "Driver got out w/ stool & tried to attack me twice after I took pic & asked him to move"

Fedex, UPS, and the sewage guy pretty much neeed to be where they are. If you helped push for the bike lane as is, then this is paryially your fault. There definately needs to be either a delivery and service exception or provisions put in place to handle deliveries and services. With the lane as is, the only other choice they have is the side walk.


what did they do when that was parking? Or when it was a regular lane?

If it is important enought o jam up a lane before then they can do it now, they still shouldn't be in the bike lane.

/not a bike rider.
//fine with this plan. Live about an hour and 15 minutes from DC with no traffic. Always take the metro in, unless it is to a hospital.
2014-06-04 10:55:37 AM
1 votes:

Zeb Hesselgresser: [i.telegraph.co.uk image 460x288]

Love these things.  No reason they can't be made outdoor compatible. And there ought to be
a fast lane that really trucks.


If they built these in DC, within an hour, it would be full of fat stupid tourists STANDING ON THE LEFT
2014-06-04 10:47:20 AM
1 votes:
i.telegraph.co.uk

Love these things.  No reason they can't be made outdoor compatible. And there ought to be
a fast lane that really trucks.
2014-06-04 10:44:40 AM
1 votes:
Even though I like to say:

img.fark.net

this law sounds a little extreme.
2014-06-04 10:39:25 AM
1 votes:

LandOfChocolate: Arkanaut: If you want to leave the height limit in place, I did notice that the streets in DC are relatively broad - maybe if you made some of them narrower

The height limit is a function of how wide the facing street is.  Your suggestion would make the "problem" worse


Really? I thought it was just that no building can be taller than the Washington Monument.
2014-06-04 10:37:54 AM
1 votes:
On Pennsylvania Avenue the bike lanes are in the middle of the road, which fixes the parking/standing/delivery vehcile issue. They even put up little "zebra humps" to stop cars from going in them. Unfortunately they spaced them too far apart, and DC drivers are such assholes they still go in them.

pbs.twimg.com

pbs.twimg.com
2014-06-04 10:36:09 AM
1 votes:
So does this mean they are going to give up the plan of randomly shooting drivers and calling them terrorist, or this is an additional plan?
2014-06-04 10:34:25 AM
1 votes:
How dare people be forced to pay for things they use based on supply and demand!!!!
2014-06-04 10:34:00 AM
1 votes:
I don't understand why major cities don't put bike/walking paths ABOVE current lanes of traffic.  Modern materials allow for sturdy overpasses that would free up a ton of real estate.  You could even do away with street level sidewalks to open up more lanes for cars/buses.
2014-06-04 10:32:55 AM
1 votes:

Dr Dreidel: This text is now purple: Codenamechaz: Trail of Dead: Stupid? Why is this stupid?

Clearly subby has never attempted to drive through DC before.

The special hell is driving around it. Mainly because few useful roads actually go through DC.

Here's an idea.

Dig two perpendicular tunnels across DC: Route 50 going east/west, I-95 going north/south (or extend 395 through the city to meet up with 95/495 in Beltsville). Each gets one exit/on ramp into/out of the city.

Do we think that might solve some of the problem? (Not entirely.) I mean, it'd shift some of the pain to those single points, but it'd eliminate the stupid drive around the city for many, and alleviate at least some of the pain getting from anywhere outside into the beating heart of the nation's capital.


One of the problems with tunnels at this point is NIMBY.  Too much of DC has gotten too wealthy to allow government to dig tunnels underneath their homes and add the attendant above ground infrastructure to vent the exhaust.  Many cities are too gentrified to make new expressways a viable option.  This isn't like the 60s when you could just plow down tenements so suburbanites could get to the urban core faster.
2014-06-04 10:29:40 AM
1 votes:

This text is now purple: Codenamechaz: Trail of Dead: Stupid? Why is this stupid?

Clearly subby has never attempted to drive through DC before.

The special hell is driving around it. Mainly because few useful roads actually go through DC.


Here's an idea.

Dig two perpendicular tunnels across DC: Route 50 going east/west, I-95 going north/south (or extend 395 through the city to meet up with 95/495 in Beltsville). Each gets one exit/on ramp into/out of the city.

Do we think that might solve some of the problem? (Not entirely.) I mean, it'd shift some of the pain to those single points, but it'd eliminate the stupid drive around the city for many, and alleviate at least some of the pain getting from anywhere outside into the beating heart of the nation's capital.
2014-06-04 10:26:13 AM
1 votes:

Walker: Caption for this one below said "Driver got out w/ stool & tried to attack me twice after I took pic & asked him to move"


Maryland plates, what do you expect?  Those people are animals
2014-06-04 10:25:19 AM
1 votes:
The article makes a good point about making our existing public transit more reliable.  I can't tell you how many times a bus just hasn't shown up when its supposed to or leaves 10 minutes earlier than it should.  Not to mention how shiatty the drivers are.

I hope the current track work makes the trains more reliable as well.  Its slowing things down with popular routes being single tracked at rush hour.  This is supposed to go on for years.
2014-06-04 10:24:07 AM
1 votes:

Intrepid00: Walker: How dedicated bike lanes in DC work:


More here:
http://whosblockinglsttoday.tumblr.com/

Pretty sure the sewage truck isn't in the bike lane and you can stop in a dc bike lane to let passengers out but the linked site the guy is complaining about it.


Pretty sure it is in the bike lane. See the thin space to the right of it? That's the divider between the bike lanes and the road. And for the other person who commented I don't know where deliver and service vehicles are supposed to go. I just know they are parked in the bike lanes. And people definitely shouldn't be driving in them or parking in them....or do you have excuses for them too?

24.media.tumblr.com

37.media.tumblr.com

Caption for this one below said "Driver got out w/ stool & tried to attack me twice after I took pic & asked him to move"
pbs.twimg.com
2014-06-04 10:17:33 AM
1 votes:

devildog123: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Driving in DC is a horrible experience anyway. Even on its worst, Metro-derailed day, I'd rather take the public transit.

This.  DC is worse than almost any other American city I've ever driven in.  I refuse to do it anymore.  MARC from Odenton to Union Station will get you anywhere you want in the city.


As a former frequent visitor to DC, I concur. I once attempted to drive a rental car north out of DC to visit a variety of Civil War sites and that single experience of Capital Gridlock made me murderous. I won't do it again.

The DC metro is quite nice, and an awful lot of DC is walkable. A friend of mine lives near the Georgia Ave/ Petworth Station, and we've walked from there to the Mall before. It's a long go, but hardly worth complaining about, given the automotive alternative.
2014-06-04 10:10:58 AM
1 votes:
I pay 15 dollars a day not covered by my work to take the bus from my house to vienna and the metro into DC. I have drivin into work only twice in my 1 and 1/2 years working here and both times were complete nightmares. I commute almost and hour and a half each way but I save 0 time driving with stop/go traffic the whole way. At least I can sleep/read/music/3DS on the train.
2014-06-04 10:09:43 AM
1 votes:

gopher321: Sounds like a smart plan, unless you're the type to drive down to your own mailbox.


Mailboxes are on the house in DC. You may be thinking houses in Bethesda et al.
2014-06-04 10:09:26 AM
1 votes:

Trail of Dead: Stupid? Why is this stupid?


It's stupid when cities acknowledge reality and plan for the future.
2014-06-04 10:08:41 AM
1 votes:
How dedicated bike lanes in DC work:

24.media.tumblr.com

37.media.tumblr.com

pbs.twimg.com


More here:
http://whosblockinglsttoday.tumblr.com/
2014-06-04 10:08:13 AM
1 votes:
Good.
2014-06-04 10:07:54 AM
1 votes:

Trail of Dead: Stupid? Why is this stupid?


Clearly subby has never attempted to drive through DC before.
2014-06-04 10:06:09 AM
1 votes:
Bike thievery to rise in the coming months, too.
2014-06-04 10:05:08 AM
1 votes:
Stupid? Why is this stupid?
2014-06-04 09:10:24 AM
1 votes:
Sounds awesome.
 
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