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(Washington Post)   Washington D.C. unveils its new long-term transportation plan: Walk and bike everywhere, trolley-troll-troll, and tax the bejeesus out of drivers   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 123
    More: Stupid, transit method, bus lanes, Metrorail, Street NW, New York Avenue, transportation, Navy Yard, entry point  
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3188 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Jun 2014 at 9:59 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-04 10:33:38 AM  

mschwenk: Walker: How dedicated bike lanes in DC work:








More here:
http://whosblockinglsttoday.tumblr.com/

Out of curiosity, where are delivery and service vehicles supposed to go?


Also, you can ride in the car lane in D.C. You are not required to use them. If the bike lane was heavily blocked I would just ride in the car lane.

Do it enough and the cops will get shiat for not ticketing parked cars. Which, you are supposed to dial 311 on.
 
2014-06-04 10:34:00 AM  
I don't understand why major cities don't put bike/walking paths ABOVE current lanes of traffic.  Modern materials allow for sturdy overpasses that would free up a ton of real estate.  You could even do away with street level sidewalks to open up more lanes for cars/buses.
 
2014-06-04 10:34:25 AM  
How dare people be forced to pay for things they use based on supply and demand!!!!
 
2014-06-04 10:34:29 AM  

zedster: In order to make public transit work in this city you will need better density, in short raise the FARKING HEIGHT LIMIT


Hell to the no.  You want to live in some city with concrete canyons then move to New York or Chicago.  There's a certain charm in keeping our buildings mathematically proportional to our streets.
 
2014-06-04 10:36:09 AM  
So does this mean they are going to give up the plan of randomly shooting drivers and calling them terrorist, or this is an additional plan?
 
2014-06-04 10:37:54 AM  
On Pennsylvania Avenue the bike lanes are in the middle of the road, which fixes the parking/standing/delivery vehcile issue. They even put up little "zebra humps" to stop cars from going in them. Unfortunately they spaced them too far apart, and DC drivers are such assholes they still go in them.

pbs.twimg.com

pbs.twimg.com
 
2014-06-04 10:37:54 AM  
Rapmaster2000:

One of the problems with tunnels at this point is NIMBY.  Too much of DC has gotten too wealthy to allow government to dig tunnels underneath their homes and add the attendant above ground infrastructure to vent the exhaust.  Many cities are too gentrified to make new expressways a viable option.  This isn't like the 60s when you could just plow down tenements so suburbanites could get to the urban core faster.

Tunneling is also extremely expensive. With or without NIMBYs, tunnels for the roads described would make the Silver line cost look like pocket change.
 
2014-06-04 10:39:25 AM  

LandOfChocolate: Arkanaut: If you want to leave the height limit in place, I did notice that the streets in DC are relatively broad - maybe if you made some of them narrower

The height limit is a function of how wide the facing street is.  Your suggestion would make the "problem" worse


Really? I thought it was just that no building can be taller than the Washington Monument.
 
2014-06-04 10:40:29 AM  

Rapmaster2000: One of the problems with tunnels at this point is NIMBY.


Obviously.

The other big one is that a tunnel that goes under or nearly under some fairly important buildings - USHMM, Treasury, State, the Capitol, the monuments, any Smithsonian, the White House, Ben's Chili Bowl - is never gonna happen.

// I've heard that the surface traffic functions as a de facto roadblock, preventing easy escape of ne'er-do-wells
// because if President Madagascar sneezes, Metro will be on double-secret lockdown; and you can walk faster than the buses
 
2014-06-04 10:42:00 AM  
Arlington county is doing the same.  I live off Columbia Pike just inside Fairfax county and they're going to soon begin work on the street cars for columbia pike.  I was told they'll eventually be limiting that already bus clogged terrible road to one available driving lane which effectively means cars won't be able to drive on it.  Probably for the best but I'm worried about how that will effect traffic down the street by me.
 
2014-06-04 10:43:51 AM  
Sam Zimbabwe, associate director for policy and planning at DDOT

Yep... definitely the work of a Secret African Muslim Sleeper Agent. Like I've been saying.
 
2014-06-04 10:44:40 AM  
Even though I like to say:

img.fark.net

this law sounds a little extreme.
 
2014-06-04 10:44:55 AM  

Walker: How dedicated bike lanes in DC work:

[24.media.tumblr.com image 424x750]

[37.media.tumblr.com image 500x500]

[pbs.twimg.com image 599x750]


More here:
http://whosblockinglsttoday.tumblr.com/


I think the Shriners can help with this one:

easthampton.htnp.com
 
2014-06-04 10:45:22 AM  
I was in DC for a wedding this weekend and the bike lanes are nice and I saw a lot of people using them. Also noticed the people were in generally better shape than the ones I see here in suburban Philly.
 
2014-06-04 10:45:46 AM  

Walker: Intrepid00: Walker: How dedicated bike lanes in DC work:


More here:
http://whosblockinglsttoday.tumblr.com/

Pretty sure the sewage truck isn't in the bike lane and you can stop in a dc bike lane to let passengers out but the linked site the guy is complaining about it.

Pretty sure it is in the bike lane. See the thin space to the right of it? That's the divider between the bike lanes and the road. And for the other person who commented I don't know where deliver and service vehicles are supposed to go. I just know they are parked in the bike lanes. And people definitely shouldn't be driving in them or parking in them....or do you have excuses for them too?





Caption for this one below said "Driver got out w/ stool & tried to attack me twice after I took pic & asked him to move"


Fedex, UPS, and the sewage guy pretty much neeed to be where they are. If you helped push for the bike lane as is, then this is paryially your fault. There definately needs to be either a delivery and service exception or provisions put in place to handle deliveries and services. With the lane as is, the only other choice they have is the side walk.
 
2014-06-04 10:47:20 AM  
i.telegraph.co.uk

Love these things.  No reason they can't be made outdoor compatible. And there ought to be
a fast lane that really trucks.
 
2014-06-04 10:48:41 AM  

LandOfChocolate: The article makes a good point about making our existing public transit more reliable.  I can't tell you how many times a bus just hasn't shown up when its supposed to or leaves 10 minutes earlier than it should.  Not to mention how shiatty the drivers are.

I hope the current track work makes the trains more reliable as well.  Its slowing things down with popular routes being single tracked at rush hour.  This is supposed to go on for years.


I still can't believe they made the silver line single track.  There was plenty of room to make it double track on both sides which couldn't have cost that much more and would make future repairs so much easier.
 
2014-06-04 10:49:45 AM  

EvilEgg: Public transit is much better than driving if it is frequent enough and goes within a couple of blocks of your destination.


False.

For most people, transit is notably inferior to a private vehicle.

The two main problems are:

1. You can't carry a week's worth of groceries on the bus or subway.
2. Public transit doesn't start in my garage, leaves the exact moment I want to leave (even at 3 am in the morning), and goes exactly to my destination.

That's not to say that it doesn't have advantages:

It can be cheaper (especially if you manage to get by without a car at all).  In heavily urban areas with grade separated rail, heavy traffic, and minimal parking, it can be faster.  Especially in a commuting situation, the stress of not having to drive and the ability to do other things (read, work or play on a laptop, sleep) is an advantage.  The reduction of pollution and use of oil by not driving alone is a good thing for society at large.  People who lack the ability to drive (the elderly, the very young, the handicapped, the blind) gain mobility due to the availability of transit.

But there's a reason most people drive to work (and to the store, etc.); it simply works better for them.
 
2014-06-04 10:50:20 AM  

Intrepid00: Also, you can ride in the car lane in D.C. You are not required to use them. If the bike lane was heavily blocked I would just ride in the car lane.


A word from the cycling community.   I ride in car lanes when I have to.  If there is a bike lane, I really prefer to do it, and I'll adjust my route so that I can keep my lycra-clad, Marco Pantani-wannabe backside out of your car lane.  Because I don't ENJOY jockying for room with cars.  In the name of maintaining something like detante, please do your best to keep the bike lanes clear.
 
2014-06-04 10:53:42 AM  
www.strangecosmos.com
Meanwhile, In the Netherlands......
 
2014-06-04 10:54:04 AM  

dbrunker: Even though I like to say:

[img.fark.net image 567x207]

this law sounds a little extreme.


Lauderdamndale
Everyone jogs or bikes
Only ones in cars are touristi
 
2014-06-04 10:54:24 AM  

fireclown: Intrepid00: Also, you can ride in the car lane in D.C. You are not required to use them. If the bike lane was heavily blocked I would just ride in the car lane.

A word from the cycling community.   I ride in car lanes when I have to.  If there is a bike lane, I really prefer to do it, and I'll adjust my route so that I can keep my lycra-clad, Marco Pantani-wannabe backside out of your car lane.  Because I don't ENJOY jockying for room with cars.  In the name of maintaining something like detante, please do your best to keep the bike lanes clear.


Yeah, but I'm not constantly going to move and out of the lane every few feet. That's more dangerous than just riding in the car lane.
 
2014-06-04 10:54:44 AM  

Geotpf: EvilEgg: Public transit is much better than driving if it is frequent enough and goes within a couple of blocks of your destination.

False.

For most people, transit is notably inferior to a private vehicle.

The two main problems are:

1. You can't carry a week's worth of groceries on the bus or subway.
2. Public transit doesn't start in my garage, leaves the exact moment I want to leave (even at 3 am in the morning), and goes exactly to my destination.


1. It can, and I have.
2. Cars don't go exactly to your destination in the city.  Most times you have to find someplace to park which can be a bigger hassle than walking two blocks.
 
2014-06-04 10:55:37 AM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: [i.telegraph.co.uk image 460x288]

Love these things.  No reason they can't be made outdoor compatible. And there ought to be
a fast lane that really trucks.


If they built these in DC, within an hour, it would be full of fat stupid tourists STANDING ON THE LEFT
 
2014-06-04 10:55:42 AM  

mschwenk: Walker: Intrepid00: Walker: How dedicated bike lanes in DC work:


More here:
http://whosblockinglsttoday.tumblr.com/

Pretty sure the sewage truck isn't in the bike lane and you can stop in a dc bike lane to let passengers out but the linked site the guy is complaining about it.

Pretty sure it is in the bike lane. See the thin space to the right of it? That's the divider between the bike lanes and the road. And for the other person who commented I don't know where deliver and service vehicles are supposed to go. I just know they are parked in the bike lanes. And people definitely shouldn't be driving in them or parking in them....or do you have excuses for them too?

Caption for this one below said "Driver got out w/ stool & tried to attack me twice after I took pic & asked him to move"

Fedex, UPS, and the sewage guy pretty much neeed to be where they are. If you helped push for the bike lane as is, then this is paryially your fault. There definately needs to be either a delivery and service exception or provisions put in place to handle deliveries and services. With the lane as is, the only other choice they have is the side walk.


what did they do when that was parking? Or when it was a regular lane?

If it is important enought o jam up a lane before then they can do it now, they still shouldn't be in the bike lane.

/not a bike rider.
//fine with this plan. Live about an hour and 15 minutes from DC with no traffic. Always take the metro in, unless it is to a hospital.
 
2014-06-04 10:57:03 AM  

Intrepid00: Yeah, but I'm not constantly going to move and out of the lane every few feet. That's more dangerous than just riding in the car lane.


I think we're in fundamental agreement.  I want my lanes clear where I have a lane.
 
2014-06-04 10:57:45 AM  

jehovahs witness protection: Rapmaster2000: jehovahs witness protection: I avoid the hell out of areas with public transit.
They are all shiatholes.

You sound poor.

No, I can afford gas for my 12 MPG truck and can also afford a nice home in a decent area.
The poors ride mass transit.


Sounds like it's boring and culture-free. Have fun eating at Applebee's.
 
2014-06-04 11:01:44 AM  
A couple friends were taking a break from hiking on the AT this weekend and popped over for a visit in DC. For the most part we took metro, but Saturday night we went to a show at Lisner and my friend had rented a car and wanted to drive. He has always been a little road ragey and it sure was amusing to see him flip out of stuff that I no longer even pay attention to anymore. It was amusing to see him like this and to think he may move back here, he would probably bike around then since he did like the bike lanes.
 
2014-06-04 11:02:10 AM  

kronicfeld: jehovahs witness protection: The poors ride mass transit.

You have apparently never been anywhere close to D.C. and its suburbs. Or New York City.


Boston too.
 
2014-06-04 11:03:28 AM  

Tax Boy: Zeb Hesselgresser: [i.telegraph.co.uk image 460x288]

Love these things.  No reason they can't be made outdoor compatible. And there ought to be
a fast lane that really trucks.


If they built these in DC, within an hour, it would be full of fat stupid tourists STANDING ON THE LEFT


See, that's the point of the fast lane.  12 mph, ride at your own risk, waiver required.
 
2014-06-04 11:04:51 AM  

zedster: In order to make public transit work in this city you will need better density, in short raise the FARKING HEIGHT LIMIT


Density yes, but you don't necessarily need to change the height limit.

Compare D.C. with Paris.  Both national capitols, studded with monuments, museums, embassies, universities, and businesses on top of residences.  Politically speaking, both are city-states separate from the towns in the surrounding suburbs.  D.C. has about 650,000 people in about 60 square miles, in a place where the height limit is a zoning thing; Paris has about 2,250,000 in about 40 square miles, in a place where the height limit is mostly a geological thing.  There used to be more people here - almost 3 million around WWI.

This works in no small part because our transit system works for getting people  around the city even better than getting them into and out of it, whereas just looking at the map you'd think the Washington Metro exists to get government employees from Maryland and NOVA to their office jobs in the center of town and back again.
 
2014-06-04 11:06:33 AM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: I don't understand why major cities don't put bike/walking paths ABOVE current lanes of traffic.  Modern materials allow for sturdy overpasses that would free up a ton of real estate.  You could even do away with street level sidewalks to open up more lanes for cars/buses.


This was actually the vision for Los Angeles about 40 or 50 years ago. The head city planner wanted to turn the city into a series of dense centers connected by roads and low density corridors.  The centers would have walkways elevated above street level.  His idea (if I understand it right) was that those walkways were where life would happen, and the streets would just be transportation.  I've just spent the past 15 minutes trying to find a link to the story I initially read, but I can't seem to find it and I gotta get back to actual work, but - apparently a few of the walkways were actually built in downtown, and they still exist today.  They're apparently surprisingly clean and pleasant to walk around on.
 
2014-06-04 11:08:52 AM  

Walker: Caption for this one below said "Driver got out w/ stool & tried to attack me twice after I took pic & asked him to move"


That's a crappy thing to do.
 
2014-06-04 11:09:14 AM  

liam76: mschwenk: Walker: Intrepid00: Walker: How dedicated bike lanes in DC work:


More here:
http://whosblockinglsttoday.tumblr.com/

Pretty sure the sewage truck isn't in the bike lane and you can stop in a dc bike lane to let passengers out but the linked site the guy is complaining about it.

Pretty sure it is in the bike lane. See the thin space to the right of it? That's the divider between the bike lanes and the road. And for the other person who commented I don't know where deliver and service vehicles are supposed to go. I just know they are parked in the bike lanes. And people definitely shouldn't be driving in them or parking in them....or do you have excuses for them too?

Caption for this one below said "Driver got out w/ stool & tried to attack me twice after I took pic & asked him to move"

Fedex, UPS, and the sewage guy pretty much neeed to be where they are. If you helped push for the bike lane as is, then this is paryially your fault. There definately needs to be either a delivery and service exception or provisions put in place to handle deliveries and services. With the lane as is, the only other choice they have is the side walk.

what did they do when that was parking? Or when it was a regular lane?

If it is important enought o jam up a lane before then they can do it now, they still shouldn't be in the bike lane.

/not a bike rider.
//fine with this plan. Live about an hour and 15 minutes from DC with no traffic. Always take the metro in, unless it is to a hospital.


The sewage guy is screwed whatever he does, because he has that 1' diameter hose coming out of his truck.  Put that across the bike lane and watch people going flying off their bikes.
 
2014-06-04 11:10:26 AM  
Sounds like they're aiming for the fat cat gov't/contractors (the over 80k crowd) who are too self important to take the train like the rest of us smucks.

They forgot that there are folks who actually want to live in that swamp.

parking will cost you no matter what, not enough parking for the people who work (and won't live there). Mass transit works well enough for the city. I haven't seen proper rush hour since i work the early day shift, except when a good team comes to beat up the Nats.
 
2014-06-04 11:11:51 AM  

EvilEgg: Geotpf: EvilEgg: Public transit is much better than driving if it is frequent enough and goes within a couple of blocks of your destination.

False.

For most people, transit is notably inferior to a private vehicle.

The two main problems are:

1. You can't carry a week's worth of groceries on the bus or subway.
2. Public transit doesn't start in my garage, leaves the exact moment I want to leave (even at 3 am in the morning), and goes exactly to my destination.

1. It can, and I have.
2. Cars don't go exactly to your destination in the city.  Most times you have to find someplace to park which can be a bigger hassle than walking two blocks.


#1: Do you have eight arms?  You can carry, at most, two or three bags of groceries on transit, never mind heavy items like cases of soda, beer, or water.
#2: I covered that in my advantages in heavily urban areas (minimal parking).  But in 95+% of the country, the distance from your destination to a parking spot is much less than the distance from the destination to the transit stop.
 
2014-06-04 11:14:36 AM  

Robo Beat: This works in no small part because our transit system works for getting people  around the city even better than getting them into and out of it, whereas just looking at the map you'd think the Washington Metro exists to get government employees from Maryland and NOVA to their office jobs in the center of town and back again.


That's pretty much the history of the DC metro and why it has cushy bench seats and carpets instead of lots of standing room like more sensible subways.
 
2014-06-04 11:14:39 AM  

Geotpf: EvilEgg: Geotpf: EvilEgg: Public transit is much better than driving if it is frequent enough and goes within a couple of blocks of your destination.

False.

For most people, transit is notably inferior to a private vehicle.

The two main problems are:

1. You can't carry a week's worth of groceries on the bus or subway.
2. Public transit doesn't start in my garage, leaves the exact moment I want to leave (even at 3 am in the morning), and goes exactly to my destination.

1. It can, and I have.
2. Cars don't go exactly to your destination in the city.  Most times you have to find someplace to park which can be a bigger hassle than walking two blocks.

#1: Do you have eight arms?  You can carry, at most, two or three bags of groceries on transit, never mind heavy items like cases of soda, beer, or water.
#2: I covered that in my advantages in heavily urban areas (minimal parking).  But in 95+% of the country, the distance from your destination to a parking spot is much less than the distance from the destination to the transit stop.


You stop worrying what you look like and get one of those carts you see the old ladies pulling.
 
2014-06-04 11:15:54 AM  

Geotpf: EvilEgg: Public transit is much better than driving if it is frequent enough and goes within a couple of blocks of your destination.

False.

For most people, transit is notably inferior to a private vehicle.

The two main problems are:

1. You can't carry a week's worth of groceries on the bus or subway.
2. Public transit doesn't start in my garage, leaves the exact moment I want to leave (even at 3 am in the morning), and goes exactly to my destination.

That's not to say that it doesn't have advantages:

It can be cheaper (especially if you manage to get by without a car at all).  In heavily urban areas with grade separated rail, heavy traffic, and minimal parking, it can be faster.  Especially in a commuting situation, the stress of not having to drive and the ability to do other things (read, work or play on a laptop, sleep) is an advantage.  The reduction of pollution and use of oil by not driving alone is a good thing for society at large.  People who lack the ability to drive (the elderly, the very young, the handicapped, the blind) gain mobility due to the availability of transit.

But there's a reason most people drive to work (and to the store, etc.); it simply works better for them.


This. Public transportation is a great substitute for walking, in places where walking is better than driving/parking (Manhattan and central DC would be two places that qualify). It is a poor substitute for driving in places where driving is viable. I rode my bike to work in DC because there was no parking; otherwise I probably would have driven. Public transportation SHOULD be subsidized (and driving should be taxed), because of the societal benefits, but it's not ever going to be as good as hopping in the car and driving straight to your destination.
 
2014-06-04 11:15:57 AM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: I don't understand why major cities don't put bike/walking paths ABOVE current lanes of traffic.  Modern materials allow for sturdy overpasses that would free up a ton of real estate.  You could even do away with street level sidewalks to open up more lanes for cars/buses.


Bridges are expensive.

There are some logistical and technical issues too, but mainly it just costs a ton to build bridges.
 
2014-06-04 11:17:42 AM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: liam76: mschwenk: Walker: Intrepid00: Walker: How dedicated bike lanes in DC work:


More here:
http://whosblockinglsttoday.tumblr.com/

Pretty sure the sewage truck isn't in the bike lane and you can stop in a dc bike lane to let passengers out but the linked site the guy is complaining about it.

Pretty sure it is in the bike lane. See the thin space to the right of it? That's the divider between the bike lanes and the road. And for the other person who commented I don't know where deliver and service vehicles are supposed to go. I just know they are parked in the bike lanes. And people definitely shouldn't be driving in them or parking in them....or do you have excuses for them too?

Caption for this one below said "Driver got out w/ stool & tried to attack me twice after I took pic & asked him to move"

Fedex, UPS, and the sewage guy pretty much neeed to be where they are. If you helped push for the bike lane as is, then this is paryially your fault. There definately needs to be either a delivery and service exception or provisions put in place to handle deliveries and services. With the lane as is, the only other choice they have is the side walk.

what did they do when that was parking? Or when it was a regular lane?

If it is important enought o jam up a lane before then they can do it now, they still shouldn't be in the bike lane.

/not a bike rider.
//fine with this plan. Live about an hour and 15 minutes from DC with no traffic. Always take the metro in, unless it is to a hospital.

The sewage guy is screwed whatever he does, because he has that 1' diameter hose coming out of his truck.  Put that across the bike lane and watch people going flying off their bikes.


I was on the fence for that one.

I am of the put up a sign and fark people who don't see, but that may not be the best bet in this litigious society.
 
2014-06-04 11:19:43 AM  
Can't believe I'm the first:

img3.wikia.nocookie.net

cdn.pjmedia.com

My commute is entirely within Maryland (albeit never more than a couple miles from the DC line).  It involves a buck sixty each way on buses whose drivers who know me and smile at me. I abhor the driving commute; parking is at least seven bucks, and it's not like I save more than five minutes since I'm taking the exact same route as the bus.

Too bad for those carbound fools who bought a McMansion on a quarter acre forty miles out during the height of the housing boom.
 
2014-06-04 11:22:03 AM  

Intrepid00: Geotpf: EvilEgg: Geotpf: EvilEgg: Public transit is much better than driving if it is frequent enough and goes within a couple of blocks of your destination.

False.

For most people, transit is notably inferior to a private vehicle.

The two main problems are:

1. You can't carry a week's worth of groceries on the bus or subway.
2. Public transit doesn't start in my garage, leaves the exact moment I want to leave (even at 3 am in the morning), and goes exactly to my destination.

1. It can, and I have.
2. Cars don't go exactly to your destination in the city.  Most times you have to find someplace to park which can be a bigger hassle than walking two blocks.

#1: Do you have eight arms?  You can carry, at most, two or three bags of groceries on transit, never mind heavy items like cases of soda, beer, or water.
#2: I covered that in my advantages in heavily urban areas (minimal parking).  But in 95+% of the country, the distance from your destination to a parking spot is much less than the distance from the destination to the transit stop.

You stop worrying what you look like and get one of those carts you see the old ladies pulling.


Nothing says you have to do a week's shop all in one go.  I shop for groceries 2-3 times/week, often over the quarter mile between my Métro station and my building, as I'm walking home from work.  Or I'll grab the granny cart for heavy things like cases of beer or mineral water.  If you've got a really big shopping list, pretty much all of the grocery stores around here offer free delivery if you spend enough (usually about 50€), but I've never felt the need to bother with it.
 
2014-06-04 11:28:27 AM  

LazyMedia: Geotpf: EvilEgg: Public transit is much better than driving if it is frequent enough and goes within a couple of blocks of your destination.

False.

For most people, transit is notably inferior to a private vehicle.

The two main problems are:

1. You can't carry a week's worth of groceries on the bus or subway.
2. Public transit doesn't start in my garage, leaves the exact moment I want to leave (even at 3 am in the morning), and goes exactly to my destination.

That's not to say that it doesn't have advantages:

It can be cheaper (especially if you manage to get by without a car at all).  In heavily urban areas with grade separated rail, heavy traffic, and minimal parking, it can be faster.  Especially in a commuting situation, the stress of not having to drive and the ability to do other things (read, work or play on a laptop, sleep) is an advantage.  The reduction of pollution and use of oil by not driving alone is a good thing for society at large.  People who lack the ability to drive (the elderly, the very young, the handicapped, the blind) gain mobility due to the availability of transit.

But there's a reason most people drive to work (and to the store, etc.); it simply works better for them.

This. Public transportation is a great substitute for walking, in places where walking is better than driving/parking (Manhattan and central DC would be two places that qualify). It is a poor substitute for driving in places where driving is viable. I rode my bike to work in DC because there was no parking; otherwise I probably would have driven. Public transportation SHOULD be subsidized (and driving should be taxed), because of the societal benefits, but it's not ever going to be as good as hopping in the car and driving straight to your destination.


I agree.  Manhattan or DC are the "heavily urban areas" I mentioned earlier, and I'm all for subsidizing transit everywhere (in heavily urban areas and elsewhere).  My main point was that, outside said heavily urban areas, transit is inferior to driving in almost all situations, contrary to what EvilEgg said, which is why, outside heavily urban areas, few non-poor people who are physically and legally able to drive use it.
 
2014-06-04 11:30:48 AM  

Robo Beat: zedster: In order to make public transit work in this city you will need better density, in short raise the FARKING HEIGHT LIMIT

Density yes, but you don't necessarily need to change the height limit.

Compare D.C. with Paris.  Both national capitols, studded with monuments, museums, embassies, universities, and businesses on top of residences.  Politically speaking, both are city-states separate from the towns in the surrounding suburbs.  D.C. has about 650,000 people in about 60 square miles, in a place where the height limit is a zoning thing; Paris has about 2,250,000 in about 40 square miles, in a place where the height limit is mostly a geological thing.  There used to be more people here - almost 3 million around WWI.

This works in no small part because our transit system works for getting people  around the city even better than getting them into and out of it, whereas just looking at the map you'd think the Washington Metro exists to get government employees from Maryland and NOVA to their office jobs in the center of town and back again.


That's exactly the problem.  I'm well inside the beltway, only 10 miles or so from the Mall.  There are good bus lines along columbia pike, and rush hour buses in morning and evening which skip half the stops and take to straight to the Pentagon.  I do that sometimes if I have a morning meeting with our client in NW.  However, even considering the new silver line which if it ever starts running, the last stop is like 100ft from my office, it will take me a minimum of two buses and two trains (orange and silver) to get from Falls Church to Reston and I'm guessing at least 90 minutes.  By car even though I have to get on the farking beltway it's usually an hour tops (more of course when traffic shiats the bed) so there's no incentive not to drive.  I do want to try it out just to see once.

But yeah we've had the spokes of the wagon wheel forever but we need to connect the spokes.  They've done a few things but on the VA side they need to focus on connecting some of the north/south areas better.  Especially route 7.  It's silly that Tyson's - > Falls Church City -> Shirlington -> Old Town isn't better connected.  That's probably a good spot for light rail which I think has been mentioned here in the past.
 
2014-06-04 11:32:39 AM  
Get rid of the building height limit (what is this? Rome?) and build some farking high rises and skyscrapers! Part of the reason why traffic sucks so bad in the area and not as many people utilize public transit as they could is that they live so far away from work!

http://www.welovedc.com/2010/02/16/dc-mythbusting-daytime-population /
 
2014-06-04 11:32:44 AM  

Geotpf: LazyMedia: Geotpf: EvilEgg: Public transit is much better than driving if it is frequent enough and goes within a couple of blocks of your destination.

False.

For most people, transit is notably inferior to a private vehicle.

The two main problems are:

1. You can't carry a week's worth of groceries on the bus or subway.
2. Public transit doesn't start in my garage, leaves the exact moment I want to leave (even at 3 am in the morning), and goes exactly to my destination.

That's not to say that it doesn't have advantages:

It can be cheaper (especially if you manage to get by without a car at all).  In heavily urban areas with grade separated rail, heavy traffic, and minimal parking, it can be faster.  Especially in a commuting situation, the stress of not having to drive and the ability to do other things (read, work or play on a laptop, sleep) is an advantage.  The reduction of pollution and use of oil by not driving alone is a good thing for society at large.  People who lack the ability to drive (the elderly, the very young, the handicapped, the blind) gain mobility due to the availability of transit.

But there's a reason most people drive to work (and to the store, etc.); it simply works better for them.

This. Public transportation is a great substitute for walking, in places where walking is better than driving/parking (Manhattan and central DC would be two places that qualify). It is a poor substitute for driving in places where driving is viable. I rode my bike to work in DC because there was no parking; otherwise I probably would have driven. Public transportation SHOULD be subsidized (and driving should be taxed), because of the societal benefits, but it's not ever going to be as good as hopping in the car and driving straight to your destination.

I agree.  Manhattan or DC are the "heavily urban areas" I mentioned earlier, and I'm all for subsidizing transit everywhere (in heavily urban areas and elsewhere).  My main point was that, outside said heav ...


Outside heavy urban areas, public transportation sucks ass.

One bus every hour that you have to walk a mile too that covers the entire area so it takes an hour and a half to get where it would take you fifteen minutes to drive.  Plenty of parking right in front.
 
2014-06-04 11:33:21 AM  

Robo Beat: Compare D.C. with Paris. Both national capitols, studded with monuments, museums, embassies, universities, and businesses on top of residences. Politically speaking, both are city-states separate from the towns in the surrounding suburbs. D.C. has about 650,000 people in about 60 square miles, in a place where the height limit is a zoning thing; Paris has about 2,250,000 in about 40 square miles, in a place where the height limit is mostly a geological thing. There used to be more people here - almost 3 million around WWI.

This works in no small part because our transit system works for getting people around the city even better than getting them into and out of it, whereas just looking at the map you'd think the Washington Metro exists to get government employees from Maryland and NOVA to their office jobs in the center of town and back again.


It does, but DC also suffers for being a port city adjacent to mountains, squeezed between two states who dislike each other, and which is wedged along the North American Megalopolis.

DC traffic would be a lot easier if it weren't:
1. The only bridge across the Potomac for 45 miles (MD vs VA).
2. The eastern terminus of I-66 (mountains)
3. The Spillway for Florida-bound traffic from the east coast for as far west as Buffalo (Megalopolis)

They didn't help themselves with a lot of poor decisions in the past, though. Consider that Baltimore, which has many of the same structural issues, has far better traffic in a larger city.
 
2014-06-04 11:34:35 AM  
DC traffic will always be farked.  Always.  There aren't enough ways in and out of the city because
-The Potomac River chokes down traffic on the Northwest and South.  Build a bridge in Loudoun County.
-Everyone has to go around Dulles Airport on the West.
 
2014-06-04 11:35:33 AM  

Geotpf: My main point was that, outside said heavily urban areas, transit is inferior to driving in almost all situations, contrary to what EvilEgg said,


How is that really contrary to what EvilEgg said? He qualified his statement pretty heavily with "if it is frequent enough and goes within a couple of blocks of your destination.".
 
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