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(International Business Times)   Game of Thrones sets science world on fire as it raises the question, "Can a man really crush a human skull with just his hands?"   (ibtimes.co.uk) divider line 99
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3366 clicks; posted to Geek » on 04 Jun 2014 at 11:05 AM (17 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-04 08:38:50 AM
Well, I can crush a beer can easily. I used to be able to crush them when they were made out of tin. If Justin Bieber were to volunteer, I'd be happy to see if its possible with a human skull.
 
2014-06-04 08:42:18 AM
Well, since the mountain is 8 feet tall....

s3.amazonaws.com

Andre flipped a car over by his lonesome and would drink 70+ beers at a time. I bet if anyone could he could have.

Plus Oberyn was a slut from Dhorne. Probably not a lot of cows in the desert. Low calcium diet, exotic STDs. He probably had really weak bones.
 
2014-06-04 09:12:08 AM
Conspicuously missing:  The science behind wargs, dragons, and White Walkers...
 
2014-06-04 09:14:31 AM

North_Central_Positronics: The science behind wargs, dragons, and White Walkers...


There's no wargs in Cones of Dunshire. TWITCH The Starks only had four children. TWITCH. Hodor travels the north beyond the wall alone with the youngest boy and the Wildling.
 
2014-06-04 09:50:04 AM

doglover: There's no wargs in Cones of Dunshire. TWITCH The Starks only had four children.


All the Stark children presumably have some latent "warging" ability, not just Bran. Jon and Arya both have "wolf dreams." We never had a Robb POV and Sansa's died at the outset, so we never had an opportunity to see theirs develop.

Also, I f*cking hate that word.
 
2014-06-04 10:14:48 AM
Maybe he has one of those squishy Walking Dead skulls.
 
2014-06-04 11:08:01 AM

Sybarite: Maybe he has one of those squishy Walking Dead skulls.


Yes.  the kind where apparently one can randomly, with one hand push a folding knife through the hardest part of the skull.
 
2014-06-04 11:11:41 AM
Well, a pretend one can.


The "Cones of Dunshire" filterswap got old real quick.
 
2014-06-04 11:13:12 AM
i291.photobucket.com
 
2014-06-04 11:19:16 AM

Big Beef Burrito: Well, a pretend one can.


The "Cones of Dunshire" filterswap got old real quick.


ha ha, it's now part of what I will forever call that boring-ass, overrated show: "Dunces For Tomes"

No, I do not like Dunces for Tomes.
 
2014-06-04 11:20:06 AM
The fingers in the eyes could probably cause some chain reaction of fractures resulting in crunch. He also had all of his weight pushing the skull onto the ground. I reject science's claim on this one.
 
2014-06-04 11:22:16 AM
img.fark.net
img.fark.net
 
2014-06-04 11:23:02 AM

gopher321: Well, I can crush a beer can easily. I used to be able to crush them when they were made out of tin. If Justin Bieber were to volunteer, I'd be happy to see if its possible with a human skull.


For some reason the shape of a skull seems like something that would stab back as it shatters.
 
2014-06-04 11:26:56 AM
I once asked a martial artist if it was possible to crush someone's skull with one's thighs, which would generate a lot more force than the hands would, and she told me that she never heard of it even happening, so I guess it can't.

Then again, this is fantasy we're talking about here. Silly scientists.
 
2014-06-04 11:28:03 AM

Big Beef Burrito: Well, a pretend one can.


The "Cones of Dunshire" filterswap got old real quick.


Is it a filter? I thought it was people trying to be clever and failing miserably at it. WTF is it from? And why would they bother filtering the name of a show?

Cones of Dunshire.
 
2014-06-04 11:28:42 AM
What I've wondered is how the Mountain does a sit-up after having his abdomen completely shredded.
 
2014-06-04 11:28:54 AM
Huh...I'll be damned. That's just...lame.
 
2014-06-04 11:30:47 AM

xalres: Big Beef Burrito: Well, a pretend one can.


The "Cones of Dunshire" filterswap got old real quick.

Is it a filter? I thought it was people trying to be clever and failing miserably at it. WTF is it from? And why would they bother filtering the name of a show?

Cones of Dunshire.


I have no idea what its from, but it seems like a horribly unfunny inside joke.
 
2014-06-04 11:33:00 AM
img.fark.net
 
2014-06-04 11:34:30 AM

Big Beef Burrito: xalres: Big Beef Burrito: Well, a pretend one can.


The "Cones of Dunshire" filterswap got old real quick.

Is it a filter? I thought it was people trying to be clever and failing miserably at it. WTF is it from? And why would they bother filtering the name of a show?

Cones of Dunshire.

I have no idea what its from, but it seems like a horribly unfunny inside joke.


Googling "Cones of Dunshire" leads to Parks and Rec.
 
2014-06-04 11:34:35 AM

Xxplosiv: gopher321: Well, I can crush a beer can easily. I used to be able to crush them when they were made out of tin. If Justin Bieber were to volunteer, I'd be happy to see if its possible with a human skull.

For some reason the shape of a skull seems like something that would stab back as it shatters.


I'd think it would depend on how you're trying to crush it.

The article's referencing helmet impact studies, which suggests accident-style collisions: sharp, frontal impacts and the like.  Having Andre the Giant or his regional equivalent bearing down and, say, palm-pressing the temples?  The mechanics are a bit different.  In much the same way that eggs are a lot stronger on the long axis than from the sides.

I doubt you'd get brain-popping special effects, but crushing a skull itself doesn't seem that unrealistic.
 
2014-06-04 11:34:38 AM
Still made for one hell of a scene though.
 
2014-06-04 11:35:56 AM

Big Beef Burrito: xalres: Big Beef Burrito: Well, a pretend one can.


The "Cones of Dunshire" filterswap got old real quick.

Is it a filter? I thought it was people trying to be clever and failing miserably at it. WTF is it from? And why would they bother filtering the name of a show?

Cones of Dunshire.

I have no idea what its from, but it seems like a horribly unfunny inside joke.


What I don't get is why the name of a fake board game would get swapped for a fantasy series title. You might as well call GoT "Settlers of Catan" then.
 
2014-06-04 11:40:55 AM

Tyrone Slothrop: What I don't get is why the name of a fake board game would get swapped for a fantasy series title.


"Cones of Dunshire" sounds exactly like a fake board game.

If anything it should be called: "Quest for the Iron Throne" or "Quest of the Thrones"
 
2014-06-04 11:41:27 AM

Big Beef Burrito: xalres: Big Beef Burrito: Well, a pretend one can.


The "Cones of Dunshire" filterswap got old real quick.

Is it a filter? I thought it was people trying to be clever and failing miserably at it. WTF is it from? And why would they bother filtering the name of a show?

Cones of Dunshire.

I have no idea what its from, but it seems like a horribly unfunny inside joke.


It's the same people who think WTFark is funny forcing it upon us.

It was funny for about 30 seconds on an otherwise funny TV show.  It's just stupid here.
 
2014-06-04 11:41:44 AM

LoneWolf343: I once asked a martial artist if it was possible to crush someone's skull with one's thighs, which would generate a lot more force than the hands would, and she told me that she never heard of it even happening, so I guess it can't.
Then again, this is fantasy we're talking about here. Silly scientists.


That'd be using large, relatively soft muscle as the pressing surface.  It would also be compressing the same muscles being used to attempt the hold, which isn't exactly going to do wonders for their strength.  The natural spacing of the legs and hips also makes it hard to get a strong grip on relatively small objects.

Cracked ribs from a body triangle?  Rare, but it happens,  Crushed skull?  Probably not- and even if someone could bring that kind of force to bear, the first thing to give out would be the victim's neck, not their skull.
 
2014-06-04 11:43:25 AM
oh I'm sorry: "Gäme of Thrönes" sounds exactly like a fake board game.
 
2014-06-04 11:45:00 AM

Wasteland: Xxplosiv: gopher321: Well, I can crush a beer can easily. I used to be able to crush them when they were made out of tin. If Justin Bieber were to volunteer, I'd be happy to see if its possible with a human skull.

For some reason the shape of a skull seems like something that would stab back as it shatters.

I'd think it would depend on how you're trying to crush it.

The article's referencing helmet impact studies, which suggests accident-style collisions: sharp, frontal impacts and the like.  Having Andre the Giant or his regional equivalent bearing down and, say, palm-pressing the temples?  The mechanics are a bit different.  In much the same way that eggs are a lot stronger on the long axis than from the sides.

I doubt you'd get brain-popping special effects, but crushing a skull itself doesn't seem that unrealistic.


Weirdly the scientist cited the mass of the biceps as the source of the crushing force.  At which point I wondered if he'd ever used a muscle in his life.  This kind of crushing would involve the man's entire upper body, from his lats and pecs to his arms to his core.  Not sure I understand how distributing "90%" of his mass to his biceps would improve the crushing force.

Sounds like a really shoddy model.
 
2014-06-04 11:45:34 AM
I don't care.  That scene was farking awesome.
 
2014-06-04 11:46:59 AM

Tyrone Slothrop: Big Beef Burrito: xalres: Big Beef Burrito: Well, a pretend one can.


The "Cones of Dunshire" filterswap got old real quick.

Is it a filter? I thought it was people trying to be clever and failing miserably at it. WTF is it from? And why would they bother filtering the name of a show?

Cones of Dunshire.

I have no idea what its from, but it seems like a horribly unfunny inside joke.

What I don't get is why the name of a fake board game would get swapped for a fantasy series title. You might as well call GoT "Settlers of Catan" then.


Done.

I watched that scene . . . enjoyed it, and was a wee bit traumitized.  is the rest of the Settlers of Catan(tm) worth watching?

\\ just kidding, I'll read the books first
\ second time is a charm or something.
 
2014-06-04 11:50:26 AM
Didn't Mythbusters state that it was plausable?

From what I read the Mountain was 8 ft tall and about 400 pounds.

The actor playing him is a strong man competitor.  I say if he hands were the size of more than half your head, you're going to get a headache when he sqeezes your brain out.
 
2014-06-04 11:53:40 AM

BeesNuts: Wasteland: Xxplosiv: gopher321: Well, I can crush a beer can easily. I used to be able to crush them when they were made out of tin. If Justin Bieber were to volunteer, I'd be happy to see if its possible with a human skull.

For some reason the shape of a skull seems like something that would stab back as it shatters.

I'd think it would depend on how you're trying to crush it.

The article's referencing helmet impact studies, which suggests accident-style collisions: sharp, frontal impacts and the like.  Having Andre the Giant or his regional equivalent bearing down and, say, palm-pressing the temples?  The mechanics are a bit different.  In much the same way that eggs are a lot stronger on the long axis than from the sides.

I doubt you'd get brain-popping special effects, but crushing a skull itself doesn't seem that unrealistic.

Weirdly the scientist cited the mass of the biceps as the source of the crushing force.  At which point I wondered if he'd ever used a muscle in his life.  This kind of crushing would involve the man's entire upper body, from his lats and pecs to his arms to his core.  Not sure I understand how distributing "90%" of his mass to his biceps would improve the crushing force.

Sounds like a really shoddy model.


This is not to say I think you could crush a man's skull with your bare hands, btw.

Just that the reasoning given is lazy.  I'd like to see what kind of force this guy could generate SportsScience style.  Where the shoddy methods are justified by feats of awesome.

Apparently the actor benches 507 lbs (230 kg).  I'd think the important number though, would be the force he can generate and maintain at a maximum.  He can likely impart much more force to, say, a sphere directly over his chest, elbows out.  Think of opening a jar of pickles.  Do you stand there, arms straight out, twisting the top?  Hell no, you hunch over it, cock your elbows out, position it near your center of mass and throw down.

/ok maybe that's just me.
 
2014-06-04 11:55:46 AM

BeesNuts: Wasteland: Xxplosiv: gopher321: Well, I can crush a beer can easily. I used to be able to crush them when they were made out of tin. If Justin Bieber were to volunteer, I'd be happy to see if its possible with a human skull.

For some reason the shape of a skull seems like something that would stab back as it shatters.

I'd think it would depend on how you're trying to crush it.

The article's referencing helmet impact studies, which suggests accident-style collisions: sharp, frontal impacts and the like.  Having Andre the Giant or his regional equivalent bearing down and, say, palm-pressing the temples?  The mechanics are a bit different.  In much the same way that eggs are a lot stronger on the long axis than from the sides.

I doubt you'd get brain-popping special effects, but crushing a skull itself doesn't seem that unrealistic.

Weirdly the scientist cited the mass of the biceps as the source of the crushing force.  At which point I wondered if he'd ever used a muscle in his life.  This kind of crushing would involve the man's entire upper body, from his lats and pecs to his arms to his core.  Not sure I understand how distributing "90%" of his mass to his biceps would improve the crushing force.

Sounds like a really shoddy model.


I may have to watch that scene again, at the point he is pushing down, it is just his suspended weight, so maybe 60-70% being pushed down on to the skull.  but that doesn't change, regardless of strength.  So we are back to discussing how much squeezing he is bringing to bear.  Which would be hand/forearm/biceps, some delts, some lats, lots of pecs . . . I dunno, seemed to me that the force was really his weight versus the back of the head versus the stone/ground.  with the thumbs popping the eyeballs for effect.

\\ Rutger Hauer did it better
\ "I've done . . . questionable things."
 
2014-06-04 11:55:46 AM
Hey mods...it's only Wednesday, some of us haven't caught up yet!

Dang spoilers
 
2014-06-04 11:56:26 AM
The show ran a few tests before they ok'd the scene?
i2.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

/Those are shallots...
//does create an interesting mental image though, given the context
///just sayin'
 
2014-06-04 12:12:32 PM
Hang on a second; just going by TFA's numbers an average adult male can exert 1000 Newtons and it takes 2,300 Newtons to crush a skull.

1) So why exactly can't the Mountain (who is surely more than 2.3x as strong as an average man) do it?  The actor playing him is strong enough to lift 934lbs. That's a farkload more than 2.3 times what an average man can lift (less than 200lbs).

2) Add to that their numbers for crushing a skull aren't from someone trying to find the weakest points on a skull and squeezing it between gauntleted fingers, but from a study on bicycle helmets.

3) We're also assuming that the Mountain's punch (a punch from an incredibly strong and heavy man wearing steel gauntlets) didn't fracture Oberyn's skull, which would make crushing it trivial for him.
 
2014-06-04 12:23:14 PM

kronicfeld: doglover: There's no wargs in Cones of Dunshire. TWITCH The Starks only had four children.

All the Stark children presumably have some latent "warging" ability, not just Bran. Jon and Arya both have "wolf dreams." We never had a Robb POV and Sansa's died at the outset, so we never had an opportunity to see theirs develop.

Also, I f*cking hate that word.


Actually, I think the implication was that Robb merged with his wolf when he died, but the wolf was killed shortly after.
 
2014-06-04 12:27:53 PM

Gunther: We're also assuming that the Mountain's punch (a punch from an incredibly strong and heavy man wearing steel gauntlets) didn't fracture Oberyn's skull, which would make crushing it trivial for him.


Considering the punch caused a tooth-shower, I would think it's safe to assume skull damage as well.
 
2014-06-04 12:28:02 PM

Gunther: Mountain's punch

c2.staticflickr.com
 
2014-06-04 12:29:42 PM
Can a man crush someone's skull with just his bare hands? I tend to doubt it, for the most part, but that's really not what we're talking about.

Can four-hundred pounds of man covered in another seventy pounds of metal armor crush someone's skull by applying his freako strength and weight against it with a hard, stone backing on the assist? Yes. You couldn't pay me enough money to test it, because I'm relatively sure my skull would crack and smoosh.

We've all (probably) seen people get kicked in the head with around a thousand pounds of force, but it's a completely different issue if the same force is applied to a head that's braced against an immovable object, like a floor...
 
2014-06-04 12:37:42 PM
All I know is that I still occasionally think about that scene and shudder.
 
2014-06-04 12:38:35 PM
www.craveonline.com

Unavailable for comment.

 
2014-06-04 12:38:37 PM

Facetious_Speciest: Can a man crush someone's skull with just his bare hands? I tend to doubt it, for the most part, but that's really not what we're talking about.

Can four-hundred pounds of man covered in another seventy pounds of metal armor crush someone's skull by applying his freako strength and weight against it with a hard, stone backing on the assist? Yes. You couldn't pay me enough money to test it, because I'm relatively sure my skull would crack and smoosh.

We've all (probably) seen people get kicked in the head with around a thousand pounds of force, but it's a completely different issue if the same force is applied to a head that's braced against an immovable object, like a floor...


Not having watched the show... was the hard surface the floor?  If so, then the maximum force the man could drive into the skull would be <= his body weight.  No matter how strong one is pushing down doesn't do anything really other than push one's body in the other direction up to the level of force need to drive against gravity for their mass.

Inward crushing would be a different thing and the combined force of the adductor muscles of the upper body.
 
2014-06-04 12:41:46 PM
I'm starting to get really tired of GoT.

I read fantasy, because in fantasy, the good guys get to either win, or reach some detente where evil is safely contained and in the balance.  Martin seems to perversely enjoy holding that in front of you, then "nope!".

I'm tired of RR Martin pulling away my Charlie Brown "yay! people I like have not-bad things happening to them" football every farking time.  It's getting old, and books full of nothing but tragedy and scheming for and by all is farking boring.

RR Martin is writing a Medeival spy/political thriller, with the promise of getting into high fantasy territory eventually.
 
2014-06-04 12:46:34 PM
BafflerMeal

Not having watched the show... was the hard surface the floor? If so, then the maximum force the man could drive into the skull would be

Simple experiment, then: lay on the floor and have two to three people stand on your head.

I mean, you know, don't, because you might get hurt, but...
 
2014-06-04 12:47:10 PM
I curse thee, tags.
 
2014-06-04 12:49:17 PM

Clever Neologism: I'm starting to get really tired of GoT.

I read fantasy, because in fantasy, the good guys get to either win, or reach some detente where evil is safely contained and in the balance.  Martin seems to perversely enjoy holding that in front of you, then "nope!".

I'm tired of RR Martin pulling away my Charlie Brown "yay! people I like have not-bad things happening to them" football every farking time.  It's getting old, and books full of nothing but tragedy and scheming for and by all is farking boring.

RR Martin is writing a Medeival spy/political thriller, with the promise of getting into high fantasy territory eventually.


Have you read the books?
 
2014-06-04 12:50:10 PM

Clever Neologism: I'm tired of RR Martin pulling away my Charlie Brown "yay! people I like have not-bad things happening to them" football every farking time.  It's getting old, and books full of nothing but tragedy and scheming for and by all is farking boring.


It's not always the case.  There have been some nice schadenfreude  moments as well... and more to come.
 
2014-06-04 12:53:59 PM

Clever Neologism: I'm starting to get really tired of GoT.

I read fantasy, because in fantasy, the good guys get to either win, or reach some detente where evil is safely contained and in the balance.  Martin seems to perversely enjoy holding that in front of you, then "nope!".

I'm tired of RR Martin pulling away my Charlie Brown "yay! people I like have not-bad things happening to them" football every farking time.  It's getting old, and books full of nothing but tragedy and scheming for and by all is farking boring.

RR Martin is writing a Medeival spy/political thriller, with the promise of getting into high fantasy territory eventually.


That's exactly why I (and I suspect many others) enjoy his work.
 
2014-06-04 12:59:56 PM

miniflea: Clever Neologism: I'm starting to get really tired of GoT.

I read fantasy, because in fantasy, the good guys get to either win, or reach some detente where evil is safely contained and in the balance.  Martin seems to perversely enjoy holding that in front of you, then "nope!".

I'm tired of RR Martin pulling away my Charlie Brown "yay! people I like have not-bad things happening to them" football every farking time.  It's getting old, and books full of nothing but tragedy and scheming for and by all is farking boring.

RR Martin is writing a Medeival spy/political thriller, with the promise of getting into high fantasy territory eventually.

That's exactly why I (and I suspect many others) enjoy his work.


The first fantasy series to focus more on politics and noble families maneuvering against each other was probably  Gormenghast, the first novel of which was published in 1946. It's an old and well-established sub-genre of fantasy.
 
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