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(Wired)   ACLU: We can haz ur surveillance records plz? Police: Um, I guess, sure. US Marshals: YOINK   (wired.com ) divider line
    More: Stupid, ACLU, US Marshals Service, surveillance, Sarasota Police Department, id numbers, fast one, Homeland Security Act  
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8084 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Jun 2014 at 11:37 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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vpb [TotalFark]
2014-06-04 11:01:37 AM  
I'm pretty sure that it's illegal for one agency to release records belonging to another without the consent of the record owner.  For federal records anyway.
 
2014-06-04 11:38:33 AM  
Wait, they can do that?
 
2014-06-04 11:39:16 AM  

Arkanaut: Wait, they can do that?


Can? Sure. Is it legal? Well....
 
2014-06-04 11:40:18 AM  
The federal government has given up pretending to follow the law for a while now (yes, further back than January of 2009, but it certainly hasn't gotten better).
 
2014-06-04 11:40:32 AM  
2.bp.blogspot.com

LOL
 
2014-06-04 11:40:58 AM  

Arkanaut: Wait, they can do that?


fierofredo.files.wordpress.com
"Yup."
 
2014-06-04 11:40:59 AM  

vpb: I'm pretty sure that it's illegal for one agency to release records belonging to another without the consent of the record owner.  For federal records anyway.


It's also illegal for them to spy on us without search warrants.

If they did nothing wrong, they have nothing to hide. They should show us their records.
 
2014-06-04 11:41:28 AM  
Hope and Change....
 
2014-06-04 11:42:05 AM  

vpb: I'm pretty sure that it's illegal for one agency to release records belonging to another without the consent of the record owner.  For federal records anyway.


So, how do the Marshals own property that the state of Florida paid for?
 
2014-06-04 11:46:38 AM  
www.frenchkissing.com.au
 
2014-06-04 11:46:57 AM  
Okay how can this POSSIBLY be legal?:

Recently, the Tallahassee police department revealed it  had used Stingray at least 200 times without telling any judge because the device's manufacturer made the police department sign a non-disclosure agreement that police claim prevented them from disclosing use of the device to the courts.

What. The. Holy. Hopping. FARK?  If I am a Florida Judge reading this, I am busy issuing a "show cause" order demanding police officials appear before me and explain why they shouldn't rot in jail for contempt of court and or perpetrating a fraud on the court.   I wonder how many   Brady violations the police have committed, by not telling defense council about Stingray use which could have provided a potential alibi for their clinet
 
2014-06-04 11:48:15 AM  
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
He is the US Marshals
She is the ACLU
The big black guy is,,
 
2014-06-04 11:48:39 AM  

Hydra: If they did nothing wrong, they have nothing to hide. They should show us their records.


Isn't that what they told us about the Patriot Act and that it was for our own good and safety?
 
2014-06-04 11:49:21 AM  
When people catch on to this, we're gonna need more Area Codes once the market for burner phones heats up.
 
2014-06-04 11:50:28 AM  

vpb: I'm pretty sure that it's illegal for one agency to release records belonging to another without the consent of the record owner.  For federal records anyway.


And if these were federal records they would have a point, but their claim that because the officer was also deputized by the marshals those are now federal records if PURE bs under the US federal Records Management Act among other things.  In fact if I am ACLU's lawyers, I would now be DEMANDING the Marshals produce their record retention schedule for ALL similarly situated law enforcement cases, and if they aren't personally storing the records sue then for beau-coup bucks for violating the FRMA
 
2014-06-04 11:50:36 AM  

Magorn: Okay how can this POSSIBLY be legal?:


They don't care about legality and there's nothing we can do about it.
 
2014-06-04 11:51:48 AM  

Magorn: Okay how can this POSSIBLY be legal?:

Recently, the Tallahassee police department revealed it  had used Stingray at least 200 times without telling any judge because the device's manufacturer made the police department sign a non-disclosure agreement that police claim prevented them from disclosing use of the device to the courts.

What. The. Holy. Hopping. FARK?  If I am a Florida Judge reading this, I am busy issuing a "show cause" order demanding police officials appear before me and explain why they shouldn't rot in jail for contempt of court and or perpetrating a fraud on the court.   I wonder how many   Brady violations the police have committed, by not telling defense council about Stingray use which could have provided a potential alibi for their clinet


The bigger question is HOW did THAT device get a pass from the FCC?

It's against the FCC laws fro me to use a mobile phone jammer when i'm in the car, but not to intercept other callers and listen in?

Seriously, that's f-d up right there...
 
2014-06-04 11:51:52 AM  

Arkanaut: Wait, they can do that?


No.  But they do.

Slypork: Isn't that what they told us about the Patriot Act and that it was for our own good and safety?

Yes.
 
2014-06-04 11:53:34 AM  
If you've got nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about.

Obviously the feds have something to hide. But they aren't worried. Football is on. Grab another beer, Jethro.
 
2014-06-04 11:54:14 AM  

vpb: I'm pretty sure that it's illegal for one agency to release records belonging to another without the consent of the record owner.  For federal records anyway.


If an agency operates in the State of Florida, our Sunshine laws pretty much require that its records pertaining to the state are available for any citizen or watchdog to see. The real trick is knowing which records to ask for.

\FL government employee
 
2014-06-04 11:54:58 AM  

tinyarena: He is the US Marshals
She is the ACLU
The big black guy is,,


Lacking genitals because they were burnt off.
 
2014-06-04 11:55:07 AM  

Slypork: Hydra: If they did nothing wrong, they have nothing to hide. They should show us their records.

Isn't that what they told us about the Patriot Act and that it was for our own good and safety?


Well that and if you don't approve you're not a True PatriotTM or a Real AmericanTM, and a traitor to boot
 
2014-06-04 11:56:35 AM  
"the Tallahassee police department revealed it had used stingrays at least 200 times since 2010 without telling any judge because the device's manufacturer made the police department sign a non-disclosure agreement that police claim prevented them from disclosing use of the device to the courts."

The local police dept. decided to sign a non-disclosure agreement that police imagined shielded them from the courts.
 
2014-06-04 11:57:03 AM  
FTA:

Recently, the Tallahassee police department revealed it had used stingray at least 200 times since 2010 without telling any judge because the device's manufacturer made the police department sign a non-disclosure agreement that police claim prevented them from disclosing use of the device to the courts.

This is why f*cking pigs can't be trusted.
 
2014-06-04 11:57:33 AM  

generallyso: Magorn: Okay how can this POSSIBLY be legal?:

They don't care about legality and there's nothing we can do about it.


Well, almost nothing.

newsimg.bbc.co.uk

I ain't holding my breath.
 
2014-06-04 11:59:55 AM  

tinyarena: [encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com image 266x189]
He is the US Marshals
She is the ACLU
The big black guy is,,


img.4plebs.org 
...revealed to be a feeble, crusty, old white man! They tryin' to tell us that deep inside we all wants to be white!
 
2014-06-04 12:01:56 PM  

Magorn: Okay how can this POSSIBLY be legal?:

Recently, the Tallahassee police department revealed it  had used Stingray at least 200 times without telling any judge because the device's manufacturer made the police department sign a non-disclosure agreement that police claim prevented them from disclosing use of the device to the courts.

What. The. Holy. Hopping. FARK?  If I am a Florida Judge reading this, I am busy issuing a "show cause" order demanding police officials appear before me and explain why they shouldn't rot in jail for contempt of court and or perpetrating a fraud on the court.   I wonder how many   Brady violations the police have committed, by not telling defense council about Stingray use which could have provided a potential alibi for their clinet


So wait, a contract with a private company can make it okay to violate the law? "Sorry, says here on the contract that I have to kill you if I want my cable hooked up."
 
2014-06-04 12:02:07 PM  

mainstreet62: FTA:

Recently, the Tallahassee police department revealed it had used stingray at least 200 times since 2010 without telling any judge because the device's manufacturer made the police department sign a non-disclosure agreement that police claim prevented them from disclosing use of the device to the courts.

This is why f*cking pigs can't be trusted.


By the way, anyone living here in Tallahassee can tell you about when the police chief suddenly resigned last year. I bet questions were starting to be asked, about this and several other questionable things. Dude ran a sloppy ship and chickens were coming home to roost.
 
2014-06-04 12:03:12 PM  
The issue isn't the device... it's the logic behind stingray... the US government and police agencies say that they can use it without a warrant because it doesn't collect content... but all the data/content goes through the device, which, while not capable of storing the content on its own, has a port so it can be connected to devices capable of storing the content. They're trying a technical end run around the 4th amendment, and if the schematics get out, they know they won't have that tool in their bag.
 
2014-06-04 12:03:28 PM  

CeroX: Magorn: Okay how can this POSSIBLY be legal?:

Recently, the Tallahassee police department revealed it  had used Stingray at least 200 times without telling any judge because the device's manufacturer made the police department sign a non-disclosure agreement that police claim prevented them from disclosing use of the device to the courts.

What. The. Holy. Hopping. FARK?  If I am a Florida Judge reading this, I am busy issuing a "show cause" order demanding police officials appear before me and explain why they shouldn't rot in jail for contempt of court and or perpetrating a fraud on the court.   I wonder how many   Brady violations the police have committed, by not telling defense council about Stingray use which could have provided a potential alibi for their clinet

The bigger question is HOW did THAT device get a pass from the FCC?

It's against the FCC laws fro me to use a mobile phone jammer when i'm in the car, but not to intercept other callers and listen in?

Seriously, that's f-d up right there...


It's a secret. The FCC doesn't know about it because the Marshall's took all the documents and the user agreement requires absolute secrecy.

Our country is turning into a Kafka novel.
 
2014-06-04 12:04:36 PM  

h0tsauce: So wait, a contract with a private company can make it okay to violate the law? "Sorry, says here on the contract that I have to kill you if I want my cable hooked up."


This is America.  Private companies are the law.  They are also the government.  Time to dust off your copy of Snow Crash.
 
2014-06-04 12:10:37 PM  

CeroX: tinyarena: [encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com image 266x189]
He is the US Marshals
She is the ACLU
The big black guy is,,

[img.4plebs.org image 384x216] 
...revealed to be a feeble, crusty, old white man! They tryin' to tell us that deep inside we all wants to be white!


But isn't that true?
 
2014-06-04 12:13:21 PM  
I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop and seeing every single post on every single board on the net - where the boards are still accessible - saying "why didn't somebody DO something?"
 
2014-06-04 12:27:42 PM  
Recently, the Tallahassee police department revealed it had used stingrays at least 200 times since 2010 without telling any judge because the device's manufacturer made the police department sign a non-disclosure agreement that police claim prevented them from disclosing use of the device to the courts.

What the fark!

How the fark does a NDA with a private company allow you to break the law?

These farkers belong in jail, cops and the company who said it could be used wihout a warrant.
 
2014-06-04 12:30:14 PM  

bunner: h0tsauce: So wait, a contract with a private company can make it okay to violate the law? "Sorry, says here on the contract that I have to kill you if I want my cable hooked up."

This is America.  Private companies are the law.  They are also the government.  Time to dust off your copy of Snow Crash.


Reading  The Big U right now, as it happens.
 
2014-06-04 12:33:52 PM  

Benni K Rok: vpb: I'm pretty sure that it's illegal for one agency to release records belonging to another without the consent of the record owner.  For federal records anyway.

So, how do the Marshals own property that the state of Florida paid for?


They follow goblin rules of ownership.
 
2014-06-04 12:33:59 PM  

tinyarena: [encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com image 266x189]
He is the US Marshals
She is the ACLU
The big black guy is,,


Her dad.....OMG this goes deeper than we +CARRIER LOST+
 
2014-06-04 12:35:33 PM  

RumsfeldsReplacement: CeroX: tinyarena: [encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com image 266x189]
He is the US Marshals
She is the ACLU
The big black guy is,,

[img.4plebs.org image 384x216] 
...revealed to be a feeble, crusty, old white man! They tryin' to tell us that deep inside we all wants to be white!

But isn't that true?


i.ytimg.com
 
2014-06-04 12:43:12 PM  
 the device's manufacturer made the police department sign a non-disclosure agreement that police claim prevented them from disclosing use of the device to the courts.


Basic contract law 101: You cannot put requirements into a contract that are in violation of the law. Just because two parties agree to something, doesnt mean its legal.
 
2014-06-04 12:44:33 PM  

h0tsauce: Magorn: Okay how can this POSSIBLY be legal?:

Recently, the Tallahassee police department revealed it  had used Stingray at least 200 times without telling any judge because the device's manufacturer made the police department sign a non-disclosure agreement that police claim prevented them from disclosing use of the device to the courts.

What. The. Holy. Hopping. FARK?  If I am a Florida Judge reading this, I am busy issuing a "show cause" order demanding police officials appear before me and explain why they shouldn't rot in jail for contempt of court and or perpetrating a fraud on the court.   I wonder how many   Brady violations the police have committed, by not telling defense council about Stingray use which could have provided a potential alibi for their clinet

So wait, a contract with a private company can make it okay to violate the law? "Sorry, says here on the contract that I have to kill you if I want my cable hooked up."


Yeah. Exactly.  A whole section of Contract law class was about how contracts to do something illegal, or even contracts against public policy are null and void and unenforceable.

The way I imagine this went down is Sting-Ray's maker offered the PD their NDA and a  letter from Sting-Rays lawyer rendering the legal opinion that Sting-ray's NDA was totally legal.  The point of that letter was not to persuade the PD so much as it was to give them legal cover if and when something like this happened and people found out about it.
 
2014-06-04 12:51:35 PM  
Cops are mostly trying to blow as much crap through the ventilators as possible before mommy comes home.  And they rely on that piece of tin on their shirt to get away with it.  Seems to be working.  Too bad we have no redress to end these shenanigans.
 
2014-06-04 12:52:52 PM  

liam76: Recently, the Tallahassee police department revealed it had used stingrays at least 200 times since 2010 without telling any judge because the device's manufacturer made the police department sign a non-disclosure agreement that police claim prevented them from disclosing use of the device to the courts.


hotmeme.net
 
2014-06-04 12:57:10 PM  

tinyarena: He is the US Marshals
She is the ACLU
The big black guy is,,


You... you want me to say "Obama" here, right?
 
2014-06-04 01:11:29 PM  

bunner: I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop and seeing every single post on every single board on the net - where the boards are still accessible - saying "why didn't somebody DO something?"


I'm buying popcorn stocks.

This is going to be such an amazing ride, with double talk, cognitive dissonance, people fighting for their rights against the military and people fighting for the status quo.

Why does that sound familiar?

Oh.

American Spring.


/you heard it here folks
//all it takes is one really obvious abuse if human rights to become a rally cry.
///one hell of a ride
 
2014-06-04 01:17:20 PM  
probesport:

I laughed entirely way too hard at that picture.
 
2014-06-04 01:20:41 PM  

Resident Muslim: bunner: I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop and seeing every single post on every single board on the net - where the boards are still accessible - saying "why didn't somebody DO something?"

I'm buying popcorn stocks.

This is going to be such an amazing ride, with double talk, cognitive dissonance, people fighting for their rights against the military and people fighting for the status quo.

Why does that sound familiar?

Oh.

American Spring.


/you heard it here folks
//all it takes is one really obvious abuse if human rights to become a rally cry.
///one hell of a ride


Won't happen anytime soon, if at all.  For every one of us following this, there's probably 25 more interested in Miley Cyrus and the Kardashians to give a rat's ass about internal spying shenanigans.
 
2014-06-04 01:24:39 PM  
The thing is, America, the business plan, has peaked.  It's on a downward arc now.  ALL republics do this.  The people who are shoving all the money up their ass and dismantling it are trying to make it work out in their favor, this time.  Will the serfs rise up and put a match to the place first?  Dunno.  Lots of historical citations for such a response, though.  Popcorn, indeed.
 
2014-06-04 01:33:17 PM  

Magorn: Yeah. Exactly.  A whole section of Contract law class was about how contracts to do something illegal, or even contracts against public policy are null and void and unenforceable.

The way I imagine this went down is Sting-Ray's maker offered the PD their NDA and a  letter from Sting-Rays lawyer rendering the legal opinion that Sting-ray's NDA was totally legal.  The point of that letter was not to persuade the PD so much as it was to give them legal cover if and when something like this happened and people found out about it.


I'm envisioning a civil suit brought on behalf of the people of Florida against Harris Corp. for fraud. Am I crazy for thinking it would probably have a pretty easy time finding a sympathetic judge?

/More effective than firebombing their offices
 
2014-06-04 01:33:23 PM  

cherryl taggart: Resident Muslim: bunner: I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop and seeing every single post on every single board on the net - where the boards are still accessible - saying "why didn't somebody DO something?"

I'm buying popcorn stocks.

This is going to be such an amazing ride, with double talk, cognitive dissonance, people fighting for their rights against the military and people fighting for the status quo.

Why does that sound familiar?

Oh.

American Spring.


/you heard it here folks
//all it takes is one really obvious abuse if human rights to become a rally cry.
///one hell of a ride

Won't happen anytime soon, if at all.  For every one of us following this, there's probably 25 more interested in Miley Cyrus and the Kardashians to give a rat's ass about internal spying shenanigans.


Exactly the way our Corporate Overlords want it to be...

I'm seriously waiting for the day that the lobbyists get congress to expand Corporate rights into their own sovereignty. Because how else would you get a "true free market" unless you let corporations cut the bonds of the government completely? And it will be heralded in by moronic wage workers who think their wages and insurance and living expenses are somehow held down by gov't regulations and not by the very corporations who pay their wages and provide their insurance, and set the prices for living standards...
 
2014-06-04 01:34:40 PM  
In 20 years this will all be a footnote in the extensive wikipedia article on stingray, but right now it feels like living through McCarthy or Watergate. Ugh.
 
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