If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Salon)   Did 50 honorary doctorates give Maya Angelou the right to call herself "Dr. Angelou"? If you answered no, you're a racist   (salon.com) divider line 160
    More: Interesting, poetic justice, cultural practice, doctoral dissertations, honorary degrees  
•       •       •

7326 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Jun 2014 at 10:38 AM (24 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-06-03 10:03:35 AM  
23 votes:
If you think an honorary doctorate doesn't give Maya Angelou the right to call herself "Doctor," that's a perfectly legitimate opinion.

If your first reaction to Maya Angelou's death is pointing out that she's "not a real doctor," you're probably a racist.
2014-06-03 10:15:01 AM  
11 votes:
Every use of Dr. before you're name when you are not an M.D. is pretentious.
2014-06-03 10:53:25 AM  
8 votes:

Marcus Aurelius: Sybarite: Every use of Dr. before you're name when you are not an M.D. is pretentious.

^ This.  If you have a PhD and insist on being called "doctor", you are most likely a complete moron that wishes they were actually intelligent.


I don't intend to insist on being called Dr., but I think anyone who got a PhD by apprenticing under a professor and doing original research has every right to be called Dr. That's what it used to mean. M.D.s co-opted it when they were actually something like apprentices. Now it's just a professional certificate, so why not let the DDSs, ODs, DOs, and EdDs further sully the title?
2014-06-03 10:18:19 AM  
7 votes:

Sybarite: Every use of Dr. before you're name when you are not an M.D. is pretentious.


^ This.  If you have a PhD and insist on being called "doctor", you are most likely a complete moron that wishes they were actually intelligent.
2014-06-03 10:48:52 AM  
6 votes:
Of course she has the right to demand that people refer to her as "Dr.".

I have the right to demand that people refer to me as "Your Holiness".

Nobody is under any obligation to call me anything at all, nor forbidden from calling me whatever they want.

Therefore, this entire discussion is stupid.
2014-06-03 10:51:52 AM  
5 votes:
It isn't racist to point out that an honorary doctorate is nothing more than the equivalent of "the key to the city". It was pretentious of her to use Dr. just as it is pretentious for anyone with an honorary doctorate to use it regardless of race.
2014-06-03 10:47:11 AM  
5 votes:
www.quickmeme.com
2014-06-03 10:46:18 AM  
5 votes:
Maya Angelou was incredibly overrated and didn't deserve 1/100th the attention she received.

And as long as we're on be subject, Martin Luther King Jr wasn't exactly a respected academic, either.
2014-06-03 10:55:15 AM  
4 votes:
An honorary doctorate still has more merit than one obtained from Liberty University.
2014-06-03 10:48:01 AM  
4 votes:
"Brittney Cooper is a contributing writer at Salon, and teaches Women's and Gender Studies and Africana Studies at Rutgers."
'nuf said.
2014-06-03 09:49:03 AM  
4 votes:
From Wikipedia:

"In some countries, recipients of an honorary doctorate may, if they wish, adopt the title of 'Doctor'. Many universities, however, request that an honorary graduate refrain from such practice.

A typical example of university regulations is, 'Honorary graduates may use the approved post-nominal letters. It is not customary, however, for recipients of an honorary doctorate to adopt the prefix 'Dr.' "


So I guess the answer is, whether you should use that title depends on which university awarded it to you.

But since this lady was awarded 50 of them from various schools, then she surely had the right to use the title.
2014-06-03 01:17:59 PM  
3 votes:

DROxINxTHExWIND: farkeruk: ikanreed: And here's the evidence of racism.  Maya Angelou's accomplishments reduced to "greeting cards".  That's why we know.  It's not the details of the tradition, it's how how far out of your way you go to minimize the accomplishments of any black woman.

I've read some of Maya Angelou's poems, and I think Hallmark would send them back. They're terrible. Clunkingly terrible. And she got away with it for her whole life because of people like you - people who would call someone a racist or sexist as soon as anyone criticised them.


Oh, so people bought and studied the writing of this one black woman because they were scared of being labelled racist? Well, how noble of you to be the first to fall on the sword for all of the wrongfully accused who WOULD stand up against this woman's tyranny if not for the protection given to her by guilty whites and blacks who play the race card.


Lots of people buy Justin Bieber's music, too.  Popularity is not an indication of quality.
2014-06-03 12:59:01 PM  
3 votes:

ikanreed: stonicus: Racist? Misogynist? I don't see how in the hell you get either of those from that. All I get from his words is that he doesn't place much value on poetry or literature. I also agree that some of Benjamin Franklin's inventions exceed the work of any poem. Even poems written by white males. Am I also a misogynist racist?

This is exactly how I knew it would go.  "No no no, it can't be racism, here's irrelevant point that could mean its' something else"

It's so damned 1 dimensional.


"Irrelevant" doesn't mean "contrary to my opinion."

It's okay.  Reasoning is hard when you think everything is racism.
2014-06-03 12:37:07 PM  
3 votes:

RexTalionis: Ben Franklin was styled as Dr. Franklin after he received an honorary doctorate from the College of William and Mary. Of course, you recall, Franklin had little formal secondary education and was primarily a printer's apprentice during his adolescence. He was given the honorary doctorate because of his contributions to science and learning. Is Maya Angelou really that different? Is she somehow not worthy of the same honor for her contributions to literature?


I think inventing the lightning rod/bifocals/a pretty rad stove, mapping the gulf stream, etc. outweighs writing Hallmark cards.
2014-06-03 11:38:28 AM  
3 votes:
I hate her because she was always blubbering anti-Semitic crap, her work and support of the Nation of Islam and opening her 'classes' in Arabic, slamming the Jews.

She was a Grade A +++ icon of the leftist puke bags
2014-06-03 11:30:33 AM  
3 votes:

stonicus: fireclown: FTFA:"To him and his ridiculousness, I say, "Oppenheimer, be for real." "

Well, the author does have her opponent firmly in the iron grip of logic.

The bottom line is pretty much if you don't actually earn a PhD or MD, you don't rate the honorific doctor.  An honorary doctorate means that the school really likes you, and that you are kinda awesome based on that, but it's not an official PhD/MD.  Angilou is wrong for calling herself Dr Angilou.

/go ahead.  I've been called racist by better looking people than YOU.

But in her field, she probably did more, wrote more, and knew more about poetry and literature than people who just sat in classes.  Her life experience shouldn't be discounted as if it didn't matter.  If it takes X number of hours learning literature to become a Doctor in it, and she has 10 times that amount from actually living it and doing it, then why shouldn't it count?


Cool your jets.  Nobody is discounting anything, or saying that she wasn't a major figure in the field.  If anything, what she did counts for a lot more than just getting a PhD.  I have a friend, Professor Mike, who has a legit PhD in 20th century American poetry.  For this honorific he spent about 6 years of his life in various schools, wrote a whole mess of poems, studied even MORE poems, edited a series of poetry journals, taught courses and went through the general hazing ritual of grad school.  At the end of this, he wrote his thesis (original work and all that) on whatever he wrote it on and sat in the circle of judgement where lifelong students of the written word assessed his work and declared him to be a straight up man of poetry.

And you will probably never hear his name again.

For her stellar work as a poet, Ms Angelou will be recognized for generations as one of the great American poets.  A kind of immortal status reached by very few.  I would argue that this is much more important.  But she didn't go through the decade long hazing ritual, so she doesn't get to use the honorific that designates that she finished the hazing ritual.
2014-06-03 11:05:26 AM  
3 votes:
I think only philosophers should be granted Ph.D's.
2014-06-03 11:04:39 AM  
3 votes:
Doesn't the title usually go with the setting?

Like I golf with my MD and I don't call him Dr. on the course, but I do when I'm in his office.  
I also refer to to Professors as Dr. in the classroom setting but not if we're grabbing a beer or coffee.

Am I the only one that does that?
2014-06-03 10:57:40 AM  
3 votes:

Sybarite: Every use of Dr. before you're name when you are not an M.D. is pretentious.


Dr. was a religious & academic title before physicians adopted it (the original English word for a medical practitioner being "leech"). In fact it comes from the Latin word for "teacher",

Insisting on it non-professionally is a bit pretentious, but that's true for medical doctors too.
2014-06-03 10:53:59 AM  
3 votes:

Sybarite: Every use of Dr. before you're name when you are not an M.D. is pretentious.


If your MD is from an American or Canadian institution, it's not a doctorate, and you shouldn't call yourself a doctor at all. Research physicians have a separate Ph.D. that's a real doctorate.
2014-06-03 10:51:57 AM  
3 votes:

Sybarite: Every use of Dr. before you're name when you are not an M.D. is pretentious.


The first rule is that it replaces "Mr."/"Ms."  Normally when you're talking to other people, including co-workers, you don't insist on being called "Mr."/"Ms.", so the title is irrelevant.

The second rule is that it only matters in a professional context, not for restaurant reservations and other BS.  Oooh.  You have a Ph.D.  Sadly for you, you need the same amount of food as the rest of us, so get in line and keep it to yourself.

The third rule is that you never correct anyone for yourself, because it makes you look worse than just not having the title.

Am I being introduced at a business meeting?  Am I picking a signature for a work email to someone that doesn't already know me?  Then I'm Dr. _ninja.  Otherwise, it never gets used.
2014-06-03 09:38:13 AM  
3 votes:
i.imgur.com
2014-06-03 06:37:04 PM  
2 votes:
I don't know dick about poetry.  I know what I like and I know what I don't like.  I'm also smart enough to know that people have different taste in poetry just like everything else.  She was a great poet to some, not to others.  Who farking cares?

The other thing I know is that an honorary doctorate does not mean you can call yourself a doctor or insist on other people calling you a doctor - unless you are a pretentious douche.
2014-06-03 06:28:30 PM  
2 votes:

ikanreed: lamecomedian: I didn't award myself a degree. I worked hard and wrote a thesis to earn it from an accredited university. Which is more than Maya Angelou ever did for hers.

Yep, here we go.  See... this is the very edges of your racism.  You think Angelou didn't work hard?  What stereotype does that remind you of?


Mitt Romney? Paul Ryan? I seem to recall a lot of "they didn't earn it" during the campaign.
2014-06-03 05:35:47 PM  
2 votes:
"You don't get to deny people a title on the basis of how much you like their work. "

That is literally what dissertation committees do. Of course, Maya Angelou wouldn't know anything about that.
2014-06-03 03:52:37 PM  
2 votes:
I don't understand this urge people have of maligning the dead here.

It's not as if  Maya Angelou was some sort of dictator who sent thousands or millions to their deaths. Or an unscrupulous corporate baron who sickened people with shoddy products. Or a drug dealer who trafficked life-destroying narcotics. Or human trafficker who dealt in human misery and suffering.

She was a poet and, by all accounts, a very nice and good individual. Even if you didn't like her poetry, what's the point of coming in this thread and telling us about how she's worthless, how she's a fraud, or how her poetry was terrible? What does it get you? Do you get some sort of catharsis when you speak ill of a woman who can't defend herself anymore?
2014-06-03 03:44:34 PM  
2 votes:

ikanreed: stonicus: ikanreed: This text is now purple: American schools started to award Ph.D.s in 1861. When did Ben Franklin die? When did Maya Angelou die?

Oh, right, because degrees earned post-death are definitely the most respected, overall.  This makes the argument even weaker, not stronger.  God, it's like every paper I've read about symbolic racism encoded into totally self-deluded forum posts was full of shiat

FTFY

Oh, good to know that you deny basic observable facts about racial bias, that have been recorded through academic proceedings.     Now we can understand that you're just straight-up pro-racism.


You're right.  I am so racist.  I bleed racism.  I only eat the inside of Oreos.  Clearly, the *only* reason someone might not like Maya's poetry is that they are racist.  Couldn't possibly be they just don't like it.  It can only be because of the color of her skin.  Thank you for showing me the light.  And thank god it is white light.
2014-06-03 02:49:25 PM  
2 votes:

someonelse: UtileDysfunktion: Queen Latifah isn't really a queen, either.

And Prince Fielder isn't really a fielder.


This post is more deserving of an honorary degree than Maya Angelou is.
2014-06-03 02:14:54 PM  
2 votes:

lamecomedian: All I did was say that I didn't think the woman's accomplishments amounted to a title.


She has a Pulitzer, three Grammys, a Tony, the National Medal of Arts, and a pile of other awards.  She wrote seven books (plus several children's books), published hundreds of poems, and wrote eight plays.  She's been an actress, a screenwriter, and a director.  Her works are part of university curricula around the world.

She's been successful in all of these endeavors, starting in the 1960s when America was even more racist.  Why her, then?  Did America just pick a woman of color at random to pile awards on?
2014-06-03 01:11:36 PM  
2 votes:

I Browse: Kope:

Seriously - you can name the most innocuous, nicest, classiest famous, accomplished black person you can, and someone out there is trying to tear them down.


Sadly, you're probably right. I've been sitting here for like five minutes trying to think of another famous black person who would be universally respected. I dunno...Crispus Attucks maybe?


blog.timesunion.com
2014-06-03 01:04:31 PM  
2 votes:

ikanreed: stonicus: No, not saying it "can't" be, just saying it doesn't "have" to be, which is what you illogically claim. In your mind, the ONLY reason someone doesn't like Maya Angelou's poetry is because they are racist. The only one being 1 dimensional is you my friend.

When they're argument lacks a fundamental merit, and there's a well documented and understood phenomenon among people with racist tendencies to do exactly this?  Yeah.

Farkers are by-and-large terrified of the idea that racism can be anything but the overt kind.  I don't get why.


I am just not a fan of poetry.  Why is that so hard for you to grasp?  No deep dark hidden reason.  No underlying evil agenda I am trying to spread.  I just don't like poetry.  Why does this hurt you so bad?
2014-06-03 12:58:33 PM  
2 votes:

ikanreed: stonicus: Racist? Misogynist? I don't see how in the hell you get either of those from that. All I get from his words is that he doesn't place much value on poetry or literature. I also agree that some of Benjamin Franklin's inventions exceed the work of any poem. Even poems written by white males. Am I also a misogynist racist?

This is exactly how I knew it would go.  "No no no, it can't be racism, here's irrelevant point that could mean its' something else"

It's so damned 1 dimensional.


No, not saying it "can't" be, just saying it doesn't "have" to be, which is what you illogically claim.  In your mind, the ONLY reason someone doesn't like Maya Angelou's poetry is because they are racist.  The only one being 1 dimensional is you my friend.
2014-06-03 12:53:24 PM  
2 votes:

Kope: lamecomedian:
And still outweighed by the utility of a device that keeps lightning storms from burning your house down.

/I'm very accomplished in the field of internet snark, but I don't expect to get a title for it.

I would politely suggest that utility is not the only measure of accomplishment. Watson and Crick's discovery of the structure of DNA is, by itself alone, utterly without utility. Does that make their publication less important to their field.


And that is absolutely a fair counterpoint.  But what is "produced" by the humanities is very rarely of little genuine utility, because what can be "built" upon it generally ends up being so much intellectual masturbation (I say this as someone who's been in the field for several years now).

There's a hierarchy of needs.  Not getting my house burned down every time the lightning comes along > any amount of poetry or literary insight.
2014-06-03 12:52:23 PM  
2 votes:

ikanreed: lamecomedian: I think inventing the lightning rod/bifocals/a pretty rad stove, mapping the gulf stream, etc. outweighs writing Hallmark cards.

And here's the evidence of racism.  Maya Angelou's accomplishments reduced to "greeting cards".  That's why we know.  It's not the details of the tradition, it's how how far out of your way you go to minimize the accomplishments of any black woman.

"Oh her accomplishments were in the fine arts, which we all know no one can get a regular PhD in."


You personally are racist.  This is not some ad hominem.  This is the inevitable conclusion of applying your argument as intended.  And finding what actually differs.  You are racist.  Seriously.  You are.  It'd be nice if you'd stop.  But the accusation is only going to make you defensive.  You're going to argue.  We're going to argue.  And at the end of the day, there's no non-racist justification for your line of argument(except the misogynist one).

Please rethink your racism(you won't).


Perhaps he's just not f*cking impressed by poets. Since no where in his opinion of Maya Angelou was her gender or race mentioned.

static.ddmcdn.com

\hypersensitive, are we?
2014-06-03 12:46:17 PM  
2 votes:
ikanreed

And here's the evidence of racism. Maya Angelou's accomplishments reduced to "greeting cards". That's why we know. It's not the details of the tradition, it's how how far out of your way you go to minimize the accomplishments of any black woman.

Perhaps he simply values utilitarian innovations over art. That's neither racist, nor misogynist.
2014-06-03 12:01:46 PM  
2 votes:
Ben Franklin was styled as Dr. Franklin after he received an honorary doctorate from the College of William and Mary. Of course, you recall, Franklin had little formal secondary education and was primarily a printer's apprentice during his adolescence. He was given the honorary doctorate because of his contributions to science and learning. Is Maya Angelou really that different? Is she somehow not worthy of the same honor for her contributions to literature?
2014-06-03 11:53:00 AM  
2 votes:

topcon: The main issue with Maya Angelou is the fact her poetry is simply horrible.  It's not good.  Where did all the acclaim come from?  We know the answer, of course, and it wasn't because she was an amazing writer, she wasn't.


The main issue that you seem to have never learned the difference between "opinion" and "fact" in elementary school. You might consider finding your first or second grade teacher and asking about the disservice that teacher did to you.

You're making a judgment call on art - merely an opinion - and stating it as some sort of incontrovertible fact. Guess what, people might like and see merit in stuff you don't like. I certainly like Bacon's Figure with Meat, but the next person might not. But that doesn't make my opinion valid and the other person's opinions invalid.
2014-06-03 11:17:55 AM  
2 votes:

stonicus: If it takes X number of hours learning literature to become a Doctor in it, and she has 10 times that amount from actually living it and doing it, then why shouldn't it count?


For the same reason that I don't get an honorary CDL just because I've been driving a car for a long time.
2014-06-03 11:16:35 AM  
2 votes:

AllYourFarkAreBelongToMe: Why is this even a debate?  It's very simple.  If you can't prescribe medicine, you're not a doctor.

You may have "doctorate" degree in something other than medicine, and that's great.  Looks nice on a resume, but it doesn't make you a doctor.

Also, if you don't have an MD and insist that people call you 'doctor', you're a narcissistic farkwad who more than likely flunked-out of Med School like all the other chiropractors.

/Bill Cosby has at least one honorary doctorate.  I don't see him running around referring to himself as, Dr. Bill Cosby.


He has a real one (Temple, PhD in education, c.1970) and twenty or so honoraries.

He uses it for script and producing credits, but not in everyday life.
2014-06-03 11:16:07 AM  
2 votes:

Sybarite: Every use of Dr. before you're name when you are not an M.D. is pretentious.


If you think that Dr. is a title only for, or even primarily for, physicians then you might have a laughably bad understanding of the word Doctor.
2014-06-03 11:12:38 AM  
2 votes:

Marcus Aurelius: Sybarite: Every use of Dr. before you're name when you are not an M.D. is pretentious.

^ This.  If you have a PhD and insist on being called "doctor", you are most likely a complete moron that wishes they were actually intelligent.


Actually, you two have it backwards. M.D.'s don't do original research. Medical practitioners are the ones adopting the "Dr." out of place. :)
2014-06-03 11:09:27 AM  
2 votes:

fireclown: FTFA:"To him and his ridiculousness, I say, "Oppenheimer, be for real." "

Well, the author does have her opponent firmly in the iron grip of logic.

The bottom line is pretty much if you don't actually earn a PhD or MD, you don't rate the honorific doctor.  An honorary doctorate means that the school really likes you, and that you are kinda awesome based on that, but it's not an official PhD/MD.  Angilou is wrong for calling herself Dr Angilou.

/go ahead.  I've been called racist by better looking people than YOU.


But in her field, she probably did more, wrote more, and knew more about poetry and literature than people who just sat in classes.  Her life experience shouldn't be discounted as if it didn't matter.  If it takes X number of hours learning literature to become a Doctor in it, and she has 10 times that amount from actually living it and doing it, then why shouldn't it count?
2014-06-03 11:01:22 AM  
2 votes:
Honorary degrees don't confer any rights to anyone other than the right to proclaim that you have received an honorary doctorate. If you think they do, please, allow someone with an honorary doctorate to operate on you.
2014-06-03 10:57:23 AM  
2 votes:

Coming on a Bicycle: "Brittney Cooper is a contributing writer at Salon, and teaches Women's and Gender Studies and Africana Studies at Rutgers."
'nuf said.


Yes, because people who are less privileged then you (or study this lack of privilege) have opinions that don't matter.

Come to think of it, that's a perfect encapsulation of privileged thinking! Good job!
2014-06-03 10:54:33 AM  
2 votes:
If you mean she's a doctor like Dr. Pepper is a doctor, then yes she's a doctor.
2014-06-03 10:54:27 AM  
2 votes:
I agree with Dr. Cooper's point, of course. At the very least, Angelou shouldn't have to be attacked within days of her death, FFS.

Angelou is also overrated as a writer outside of her important contributions to feminism, civil rights, and personal identity, though, and I think that is what causes people like this Oppenheimer person to say rude things. I wouldn't call a first read through of "I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings" at the college level "grappling," for instance.
2014-06-03 10:49:54 AM  
2 votes:

sigdiamond2000: If you think an honorary doctorate doesn't give Maya Angelou the right to call herself "Doctor," that's a perfectly legitimate opinion.

If your first reaction to Maya Angelou's death is pointing out that she's "not a real doctor," you're probably a racist.


What if you think she's a lousy poet, and wildly overrated? Is that racist too?

\just checking Sir
\\Please tell me how I feel about things, ifyouwouldbesokind
2014-06-03 10:49:52 AM  
2 votes:

Mambo Bananapatch: Of course she has the right to demand that people refer to her as "Dr.".

I have the right to demand that people refer to me as "Your Holiness".

Nobody is under any obligation to call me anything at all, nor forbidden from calling me whatever they want.

Therefore, this entire discussion is stupid.


Did she ever demand it, or did others simply do it as a sign of respect?
2014-06-03 10:44:49 AM  
2 votes:

Marcus Aurelius: Sybarite: Every use of Dr. before you're name when you are not an M.D. is pretentious.

^ This.  If you have a PhD and insist on being called "doctor", you are most likely a complete moron that wishes they were actually intelligent.


My former boss didn't want to be called doctor or have phd attached to his name on correspondence... Unless he was writing to someone who on his estimation would be impressed by or care about that kind of nonsense. It was actually kind of fun when he'd return some of the letters I drafted, so that I may add 'phd'. It basically would let me know which government officials he thought were idiots.
2014-06-03 10:42:48 AM  
2 votes:

Sybarite: Every use of Dr. before you're name when you are not an M.D. is pretentious.


What if you're a Gallifreyan Time Lord?
2014-06-03 10:42:31 AM  
2 votes:
Try calling the restaurant guy in whites a cook, talk about misplaced sensitivity.
2014-06-04 09:12:50 AM  
1 votes:

Hermione_Granger: This thread...not exactly a bastion of tolerance now is it?

Some days I really hate Fark. This is one of them.


Maybe one day you'll hate it so much you go away forever.

One can only hope...
2014-06-04 07:21:26 AM  
1 votes:
Should Ben Franklin get to use the title Dr.?  Yes.  His accomplishments in science exceed or on par with the many other works that were deemed Doctorate worthy.

Should Maya Angelou get to use the title Dr.?  Yes.  Her work in poetry and literature exceed the work of others who were deemed Doctorate worthy.  Also, many a Doctor of Literature, as part of their study, studied Maya Angelou.  Knowledge of her and her body of work was required to be deemed Doctorate worthy.  So being her and actually writing that body of work should count a great deal.

That being said, I still personally hate her poetry.
2014-06-04 01:51:45 AM  
1 votes:

Fafai: ikanreed: cptjeff: Dude, you come off as a moronic blowhard who can't accept that any argument that doesn't fit with your preconceived notion might be in the slightest bit valid. Upon a pretty minor disagreement, you lept straight to personal attacks. Neither of those things are exactly a hallmark of intelligence. Arrogance, yes. Intelligence, no.

"Personal attacks"
"moronic blowhard"

Let's say, for a moment that personal attacks on dimwitted idiots aren't warranted, and are indicative of low intelligence.  Just hypothetically let idea ride, why the fark would you do it in the same post?

By looking at this seeming contradiction and considering his post without cherry-picking the words, one could safely deduce that cptjeff seems to have a problem not with personal attacks, but 'leaping straight to' them. In your case he's got, what, 40 something posts to decide on whether personal attacks are warranted? That's a fair sample size I'd say.


It's also a matter of what the purpose of the post is. ikanreed was trying to use personal attacks to argue for the contention that, as a matter of protocol, it is appropriate for recipients of honorary doctorates to use the honorifics granted to those who earn doctorates in an academic setting. In the context of that discussion, it is an ad hominem fallacy, and thus not valid as an argument.

I was arguing in favor of a different contention. Namely, that ikanreed is a tremendously arrogant jackass. In support thereof, I cited evidence- his/her repeated use of a particularly strong character attack with very little evidence in support of that attack's truth, and use of the aforementioned attack to avoid answering substantive points of debate on the contention he/she was debating. The 'arrogant' element is demonstrated by claims of high intelligence while demonstrating a repeated inability to answer substantive rebuttals to his/her contentions. I am not trying to argue for or against the original question over doctorate protocol. Since discussion of ikanreed's character is central to this new contention, discussion of his/her character is relevant.
2014-06-03 10:37:10 PM  
1 votes:

I Browse: Facetious_Speciest:

No one is universally-respected. I'm sure textbooks in British primary schools don't paint Attucks as any kind of martyr or hero. Most of his killers were successfully defended in court by a future American president (who ironically included some fun racism as part of their defence).


True. "Universally respected" was a poor choice of phrasing. I'm sure there were some people out there who even hated Mr. Rogers.

I guess what surprised me about the Maya Angelou backlash is that I didn't think people had strong negative feelings about her. She seemed fairly non-controversial to me. But I suppose there's no such thing as that anymore.


Honestly I don't see a "backlash". I just never thought she was spun from solid gold like some people liked to present. The first time I heard of her was when Clinton brought her out every chance he got, and was never impressed. I didn't *hate* it, but was bored with her poetry. I got tired of him and everyone else after him trotting her out like she was the Pope, to bless Important Occasions.

As far as ikanreed is concerned, that makes me an unrepentant racist asshole.

Oh Lord, what will I ever do?
pla
2014-06-03 10:16:40 PM  
1 votes:
Say, can someone pass me the popcorn?  This could go on for another few hundred messages!

/ You will all please address me as "Laird pla", since I own land.
// Not in Scotland, necessarily, but if I went there, I would technically still own land.  :)
2014-06-03 08:14:04 PM  
1 votes:

ikanreed: make no bones about my intelligence. I'm smart.


[citation needed]

Dude, you come off as a moronic blowhard who can't accept that any argument that doesn't fit with your preconceived notion might be in the slightest bit valid. Upon a pretty minor disagreement, you lept straight to personal attacks. Neither of those things are exactly a hallmark of intelligence. Arrogance, yes. Intelligence, no.
2014-06-03 07:41:44 PM  
1 votes:

ikanreed: CheapEngineer: Perhaps he's just not f*cking impressed by poets. Since no where in his opinion of Maya Angelou was her gender or race mentioned.

static.ddmcdn.com

Bullshiat.
Complete bullshiat.
Double bullshiat.  We were talking about how honorary PhDs can allow for someone to be called doctor, when they were white.  Dr. Franklin was brought up as someone who was so accomplished in his field that he got honorary degrees that were respected.

Maya Angelou is 100% a parellel there.  Top of her field.  PhDs in that field as a result.  Now, if fine arts degrees didn't count in the first place, sure.  We'd have a reasonable excuse.  That doesn't work.  They're racist.  And people rushing to defend them make no farking sense.  Is it a "I'm terrified of being called a racist too" thing?  Because I'm not going there.  One specific argument is undoubtedly steeped in racist overtones, regardless of whether race is brought up.

"You must be racist for identifying racism" is the lamest piece of shiat argument anyone has ever used.

I know I'm not getting through to you.  I don't care anymore.


I'm sure this thread is over, but this doesn't support your point. Most folks do not refer to Ben Franklin as Dr Franklin. This thread was the first time I've heard of it.

Maya was hugely influential and important. Her accomplishments stand just fine on their own without needed an honorary title. I feel the same for anyone. I guess I sort of exempt obvious celebrity nom de plumes such as Dr Dre, Dr Demento, Dr Detroit, etc. Those just seem to be in fun, so they don't seem to bug me.
2014-06-03 07:20:40 PM  
1 votes:

ikanreed: Is there a homophobic cultural element to what I said? Probably. I'll acknowedge that


You acknowledge that there's 'probably' some element to it. Such conviction. Earlier it was 'I suppose' it's a 'bit' homophobic (bfd, right?). You're being a lot harder on yourself for that word choice than I would, btw. I'm not calling you homophobic. I'm saying you're a hypocrite. See, because when you do it, it's 'metaphorical.' Or 'maybe' 'a little' bit bad. 'Probably' is the strongest we've got here.

But look at the assuredness and strength of your statements when you chastise someone else for doing a similar thing in a far less overt manner (like actually sticking to the merits of the work of the person in question). Only then does it become 100% undeniable in your mind.

I'm not trying to "trap" you into admitting you were being homophobic (that's your M-O), I was trying to show you you're not being consistent. ...But since you went there of your own accord, do you consider yourself a homophobe to your core? If not, then how can you say these guys are totally racist with the certainty you've displayed here? They weren't being nearly as overt with their racism as you were with homophobia.

/really doesn't think anyone in question has been racist/homophobic, i just want some consistency dammit
//skimmed most of the beginning of the thread so I could be wrong
///three
2014-06-03 07:18:24 PM  
1 votes:

ikanreed: stonicus: Are you smarter than the average black man?

There's no such thing as an average black man, easy mistake to make there.  Is my [specific metric of intelligence] higher than the average of the same among American black men?  Likely, but it obviously depends on how you're measuring what.


You're racist then... it's the only explicable reason for your answer.

Just like if someone doesn't like Maya Aneglou's contributions to the world, the only explicable answer is racism.  Just not liking her work isn't an option, it has to be her race.  I've learned so much from you today.
2014-06-03 06:27:53 PM  
1 votes:

ikanreed: Fafai: ikanreed: at least lets me be honest.

What about using "making out" and "give me a reacharound" as insults while decrying the use of "that's gay," does that let you be honest?

"I don't understand metaphorical language"

I get that it's a bit homophobic in nature, what I wrote, but it's not dishonest.  You guys were seriously all over each other.  Praising your own bad ideas when spoken by another.


I understand it. That's so gay, don't be a pussy, etc. Metaphorical language. Remember the thread with the posters around campus about "I don't say 'man up' because women can be strong too" and shiat? Remember what stance you took in that thread? What's the difference between that and this? No consistency. Total hypocrite.

Also I was not a part of that gay orgy upthread. You're getting confused again.
2014-06-03 06:15:45 PM  
1 votes:
I love these Maya Angelou threads. it gives me the chance to once again say she was pretentious, and stunk. he poetry was awful, but was worse was her oratory. god good, I don't how anyone could listen it. she could have been blue,  I don't care, she still was awful.
2014-06-03 05:45:16 PM  
1 votes:

ikanreed: at least lets me be honest.


What about using "making out" and "give me a reacharound" as insults while decrying the use of "that's gay," does that let you be honest?
2014-06-03 05:42:06 PM  
1 votes:

ikanreed: lamecomedian: "You don't get to deny people a title on the basis of how much you like their work. "

That is literally what dissertation committees do. Of course, Maya Angelou wouldn't know anything about that.

No, it isn't.  But that gross simplification and raising yourself to the rank of an expert when many experts already granted her the title you're petulantly arguing over does seem kind of shiatty.


I didn't award myself a degree. I worked hard and wrote a thesis to earn it from an accredited university. Which is more than Maya Angelou ever did for hers.
2014-06-03 05:05:58 PM  
1 votes:

ikanreed: stonicus: And you're the only one...

Oh no, a person who disagrees with me alleges widespread contempt for my opinions.


Don't know about widespread contempt, but it would seem you should take a step back from the old keyboard and take a walk.  You have run the course of internet insanity, from drawing largely unsupportable conclusions that fellow commenters have evil motives, to trumpeting your supposed intellectual superiority over others.  Just stop, walk away.  Nothing you have said makes me believe the two commenters are racist, it would appear they merely are dismissive of the arts.  Take a breath.

Also, you did not allude to a circle jerk earlier, you made reference to a reach around.  I do not think that makes you homophobic, but for someone so quick to paint with the broad brush of racism, maybe you should cool that attitude.
2014-06-03 04:19:31 PM  
1 votes:

ikanreed: DROxINxTHExWIND: What are your feelings about hip-hop music, "urban" fashion, Obama, the NBA, the state of welfare reform, stop and frisk laws, Spike Lee, cars with rims...

See, not liking one or several of these things isn't neccessarily an indication that you're a racist. but if you ALWAYS passionately argue against anything even remotely associated with black people...it raises questions.

I want to like this argument, but it falls the glaring flaw that the person it's used on can just latch onto anything they feel like as a counter example.  And they're not wrong.  That does defeat the argument.  But the clue is still there through the breadth or depth of dislike, without the universality.  But you can't prove anything.  So I find it kinda useless to actually use.


Your assessment is true only if my intention was to verbally trap him into losing the argument. I was asking a real question and simultaneously making the point that there are many Farkers who always seem to take the opposite side of any issue concerning or involving black people.
2014-06-03 04:08:01 PM  
1 votes:

ikanreed: you can believe something is bad and still engage in it as a minor personal flaw. Being an active proponent of bad things is worse.


So when you come out and say "you guys are being gay lol," that's just a 'minor personal flaw' and somehow a less 'active' aggression than saying she didn't write good poetry. You're full of shiat. And attacking my world view (1 dimensional?) as if you know where I'm coming from when I haven't said shiat on the subject other than posted a video of Maya Angelou from the Richard Pryor Show (RIP both) that I remembered as being quite poignant and dramatic for a sketch comedy show, thinking people might appreciate that bit of entertainment history? That makes you look even worse. You are painting everyone who you even perceive as disagreeeing with you with the same brush. You look like a fool in here and your head is way too far up your own sanctimonious ass to realize it.
2014-06-03 03:59:12 PM  
1 votes:
I hereby grant all of you honorary doctorates, priesthoods, knighthoods, papacies, and whatever the hell else you want. You are free to call yourself whatever the hell you want, because nobody gives a shiat. They're equally meaningless on everybody.

Sincerely,
His Holiness the Rev. Dr. Pope John Paul George Ringo Bonobo LXII, Esq. OBE, God-Emperor of the Universe.
2014-06-03 03:46:09 PM  
1 votes:

Mambo Bananapatch: Of course she has the right to demand that people refer to her as "Dr.".

I have the right to demand that people refer to me as "Your Holiness".

Nobody is under any obligation to call me anything at all, nor forbidden from calling me whatever they want.

Therefore, this entire discussion is stupid.


I refer to myself as 'Lord High Poobah'


It's just as valid


// Now , kiss my ring
2014-06-03 03:35:49 PM  
1 votes:

virtdave: That's Dr. M. L. King to you, asshole.


Only because he stole the work of this man:

www2.gsu.edu

By the way, it was Angelou's preference that she be called "Dr. Angelou" by people outside of her family and close friends.
2014-06-03 03:12:01 PM  
1 votes:

ikanreed: stonicus: Well, nobody, even us, likes being called out. I am sure you wouldn't like it if we started pointing out how anti-semitic you've been in this thread.

Oh no.  I know how much it stings when the KKK accuses me of being a Nazi.   Seriously?  You think I go: "Oh no, that accusation rings true and isn't some insane attempt to divert discussion with purposeful intent"

Look.  You have made a very clear argument that identifies your position without ambiguity.  "Franklin was a great man because of his accomplishments, but for [personal reasons we promise aren't fundamentally racist, in spite of overwhelming-no-really-shut-the-fark-up-this-is-a-point-not-up-for-de b ate evidence, Angelou isn't]."


It's not a hard facade to see through.  There isn't a legitimate reason, and the defensiveness you exhibit doesn't make it better.  It makes it worse.  I want to pretend I feel sorry for you, so I can be all smug, but the reality is that your opinions are common, and poisonous to society, and we badly need edge cases to reform.


So I have to like poetry or else I am racist?  Guess what, poetry written by white people, I hate it too.  You are a weird little man with weird little ideas.
2014-06-03 03:11:59 PM  
1 votes:

Wook: Seriously folks, aside from being a podium piece for leftist self-proclaimed intellectuals and politicians, I'm going out on a limb to suggest that less than a few in a hundred of you even have read any of her poetry.  But please go ahead and climb on the wagon.

So how long until she replaces the Dali Lama as a bumper sticker for Prius drivers?


I'm sure you complain about those "smug elitists" on the left too.
2014-06-03 03:05:56 PM  
1 votes:

ikanreed: lamecomedian: I might've believed that if you had actually quit posting a couple of pages ago.

Or maybe, I'm still clinging to the hope that you'll stop being wrong.  Because this kind of racism is endemic the culture and you're an identifiable perpetrator.  And just the idea of one less nutbug is a dream worth arguing a bit for.

Let me ask you a serious question:  How do you know you treat people fairly regardless of race?


This comic was written about you.

(It's not meant to be a compliment)

So anyway, have you hated gay people your whole life, or did that particular bigotry just start recently?
2014-06-03 03:00:31 PM  
1 votes:

stonicus: ikanreed: Nice makeout session you two:

"You're the non-racist guy"
"No you're right and you're the non racist guy"
"Your incorrect opinion is right"
"Oooh now give me a reach around"

Well, if nobody was taking you seriously before, this will surely get them to believe in you.  =)


Did you notice the anti-gay sentiment that's implied by that post?  We may be racists, but at least we're not HOMOPHOBES!
2014-06-03 02:57:37 PM  
1 votes:

Z-clipped: lamecomedian: And while it's fair to say I haven't posted an erudite, scholarly critiques of her work in this thread... well, it's Fark.

Interesting.  I find quite a lot of technical discussion on other subjects on Fark.


I try to keep my posts on the internet pretty short (individually).  It helps me walk away when I need to.  Also, longer posts are more appropriate for a conversation between two people (at least, that's my opinion).

So you think her acclaim is entirely political, and not because of her ability to profoundly resonate with huge groups of people, give them hope, and help them find the inner strength to overcome certain shared adversities?

Oh no, not entirely.  But all kinds of stuff that isn't given the same kind of plaudits that her work has received has given people hope, helped them find inner strength, etc.  Chicken Soup for the Soul is probably more widely read (and thus more quantitatively "inspirational") than Angelou's stuff, but it's never going to get a Pulitzer.

I don't bear the woman any ill-will at all, nor do I find her work harmful or offensive.  I just don't think it's of very high quality, that's all, and I think her career benefited from the political currents of her time.  That doesn't make her a bad person.
2014-06-03 02:54:43 PM  
1 votes:
Leonard Washington: I don't give a fark what they called people in the middle ages, you're not a doctor anymore. My dad is a doctor, nothing pissed me off more than some borderline competent to teach high school liberal arts professors insisting on me calling them doctors. You want to get called a doctor, get approved by the state to write a prescription.

1. M.D.s date back to the late 19th century, not the middle ages or earlier.  Before the 20th century not all physicians held medical degrees,  and many states did not require licensing of physicians.  Further, MD's were not the standard medical degree until the 20th century.
2.  I suggest you  brush up on the middle ages and learn to distinguish between them and the renaissance which is when the term Doctor became an academic title and was not a religious one.
3.  Many states allow Physician's Assistants and Nurse Practitioners  to write prescriptions, but do not allow them to refer to themselves as Doctors.

Leonard Washington: You quit deserving to be called doctors the second someone else figured out how to help people better.

See above.  Also, Surgeons in the UK who have medical degrees are still traditionally referred to as "Mister So and So" while other physicians are referred to as "Doctor So and So" Surgeons in the UK can write prescriptions, so are they Mister or Doctor?

lennavan: MDs write prescriptions for cures/treatments a team of PhDs spent decades developing.  Your MD didn't cure cancer, a whole crap load of PhDs did.
Professional degrees are a bit of an odd duck in the academic world in that many researchers and teachers in the professions hold only the first degree in the field- JD, MD, DDS etc while in the rest of the academic world those positions are reserved for holders of advanced degrees. But your point is still a good one that illustrates the difference between practitioners of the profession and academics advancing the state of knowledge in it.
2014-06-03 02:35:11 PM  
1 votes:
upload.wikimedia.org

Dr. Bush has honorary doctorates from (at least) Yale, Harvard, and Dartmouth.
2014-06-03 02:27:05 PM  
1 votes:

chimp_ninja: lamecomedian: All I did was say that I didn't think the woman's accomplishments amounted to a title.

She has a Pulitzer, three Grammys, a Tony, the National Medal of Arts, and a pile of other awards.  She wrote seven books (plus several children's books), published hundreds of poems, and wrote eight plays.  She's been an actress, a screenwriter, and a director.  Her works are part of university curricula around the world.

She's been successful in all of these endeavors, starting in the 1960s when America was even more racist.  Why her, then?  Did America just pick a woman of color at random to pile awards on?


So what?  None of those things equals "met the requirements for a terminal degree (doctorate)."

Which is why she's received HONORARY degrees--none of those universities would put their reputations on the line to grant her an actual doctorate based on life experience, that just doesn't happen.
2014-06-03 02:22:57 PM  
1 votes:
stonicus:

I don't think Mike Tyson was a very good boxer.  Is that racist?

If you back it up with something like: he doesn't block well, he doesn't move his feet well. The only reason he wins so many fights is because he's throws such a heavy punch that it destroys most people -- but as soon as he ran into someone who could hit just as hard AND move he lost . .  then "no." If you think he's not a very good boxer because you don't like him, then maybe depending on why you don't like him.

But here's the thing: Thinking Angelou is not a very good poet simply because you don't like her poetry is sort of like saying you don't think Tyson is a good boxer just because you don't like Tyson. It is an insubstantiated opinion that demonstrates no understanding of what being a good boxer means.

And here's where it gets tricky: those who's expertise revolves around understanding what makes for good literature have spoken with near unaninimity in agreement that Angelou is a quality writer who is socially important. Which is vastly different from the Tyson parrallel because numerous boxing experts said from day one that Tyson was a bruiser who lacked many skills normally associated with quality boxers, but his strength and power made him nearly unbeatable. The difference of course being that Angelou didn't have to win some knock-out poetry reading contest in order to succeed, and Tyson didn't have to impress his peers. That difference is critical to the entire discussion and attempting to bypass it misses what is essential to the discussion.
2014-06-03 02:21:30 PM  
1 votes:

stonicus: I don't think Mike Tyson was a very good boxer. Is that racist?


no.  It's foolish. That dude was one of the all time greats.   Besides, he has an honorary PhD in Humane Letters, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Tyson. which makes him a scholar as well,
2014-06-03 02:09:42 PM  
1 votes:

Sybarite: Every use of Dr. before you're name when you are not an M.D. is pretentious.


You do know that MD's were the ones that were late to the "Doctor" party, right? They were known as Physicians and Surgeons until relatively recently. Most medical societies, such as the AMA, still refer to their members as physicians and not doctors.

In any case, the actual usage of Dr. for a PhD has a little more etiquette. If you're putting your name to an official piece of correspondence that relies on your educational station, then you should use the honorific. If you're putting your name to something that doesn't rely on your degree, then you don't. For example, people who write academic research papers (in my field, at least) don't use the honorific, which is the most scholarly thing they do. But they will use it when they're doing day-to-day departmental business, such as certifying students and whatnot. You don't use your degree to claim a position of superiority or correctness, but you can and should use it claim a position of authority.

In another vein, there are differences between academic and non-academic environments. If you are introducing a PhD in a non-academic or public environment, and their degree bears some relevance to whatever is going on, it's polite and practical to let the audience know that this person has some authority. Conversely, it's silly to introduce someone with a PhD as such to another crowd of PhDs, especially when they're giving technical talks that are expected to stand on their own merit. Of course, it's a major faux pas for anyone to stand up and say, "By the way, I have a doctorate! You forgot to mention!", but they can and do say things like, "I've been doing research in this field for ten years now."
2014-06-03 02:08:05 PM  
1 votes:

Pharmdawg: As a pharmacist (with a clinical doctorate) who advises "real" doctors on treatment options, and intercepts and corrects their errors (and those of their nurses, assistants and patients) daily, I'm getting a kick out of the pretentiousness of everyone.


So on a day-to-day basis while working with MDs and other medical professionals, do you refer to yourself as Dr. Pharmdog?  Just curious how that works.

While in nursing school one of my wife's professors was getting her doctorate in nursing.  I just can't imagine being in the medical profession and always having to add, "but not an MD" every time you are introduced.
2014-06-03 02:07:35 PM  
1 votes:
Here's a simpler explanation:

If you're not going to raise your hand the next time a pilot on the flight you're on asks if there are any doctors available to help with an emergency, then I'm not going to call you one either.
2014-06-03 01:57:25 PM  
1 votes:

stonicus: Ok, what set of non-subjective criteria are going to use to judge the quality of a poem, or a song, or a painting?


Whatever you want, man.  Edgar Allen Poe thought length was important in poetry - he thought a poem needed to be digestible in one sitting (which is why he didn't care for epics).

And I think I get your implied point - "lyrical complexity" might be difficult to measure with the same precision as, say, the decibel level of a song, but we can pretty clearly make some measurements.  "I kissed a girl and I liked it" is not as complex as "I can't remember if I cried when I read about his widowed bride, but something touched me deep inside the day the music died."

As with most human value judgements, what matters is consistency, honesty, and belief - that's what turns the arbitrary into the not-quite-arbitrary.
2014-06-03 01:55:52 PM  
1 votes:

lamecomedian: If we agree upon a set of criteria before we judge, then our evaluative judgements aren't subjective. Our criteria may be somewhat arbitrary, but all criteria are.


Which is one of the effects of academia, for better or worse.  Consistency of product.  You are being guided and judged by the establishment who was in turn guided and judged by those before them.  This tends, TENDS, to promote a certain uniformity throughout the establishment of any given field.  The wackos may be smart, but they will have to pursue their interests outside of academe.
2014-06-03 01:54:09 PM  
1 votes:

I Browse: Kope:

Seriously - you can name the most innocuous, nicest, classiest famous, accomplished black person you can, and someone out there is trying to tear them down.


Sadly, you're probably right. I've been sitting here for like five minutes trying to think of another famous black person who would be universally respected. I dunno...Crispus Attucks maybe?



Can you think of a universally respected person of any ethnicity? Any person at all that doesn't have someone out there tearing them down?
2014-06-03 01:50:09 PM  
1 votes:

frunjer: pretentiousness is a way of life for some people... it demonstrates their sense of superiority.. or hides their feeling of inferiority.  Respect from someone directly knowledgeable of your character is one thing, but to demand some one show deference just because you're a twat is another.


Lena Horne had a famously regal demeanor that she adopted after she became famous. It grew out of the demeaning and racist treatment she experienced earlier in her life. She demanded and commanded respect. Women ... particularly African American women of a certain age ... do this sometimes as a way of protecting themselves from being bulldozed and as a way of making sure they aren't stripped of their dignity. It's the sort of thing, however, that gets them called "uppity."
2014-06-03 01:43:56 PM  
1 votes:

DROxINxTHExWIND: Oh, so people bought and studied the writing of this one black woman because they were scared of being labelled racist?


How did you deduce that from what I said?

As someone else said - Justin Bieber makes garbage. Some girls like it. But no-one hesitates to call Justin Bieber out for making garbage. No-one says that you're anti-Canadian for saying he makes garbage.

Well, how noble of you to be the first to fall on the sword for all of the wrongfully accused who WOULD stand up against this woman's tyranny if not for the protection given to her by guilty whites and blacks who play the race card.

When did I ever say her tyranny? It's nothing personal against her. I direct my wrath at the tyranny of people like you who try to shame people out of reasonable criticism by calling them racists because the work is by a black person.
2014-06-03 01:40:57 PM  
1 votes:

Kope: CADMonkey79: Sybarite: Every use of Dr. before you're name when you are not an M.D. is pretentious.

THIS!

Given that MD's appropriated the title from PhDs, Why do you preference them?
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_%28title%29#Origins


Because I don't live in Medieval Europe I suppose.
2014-06-03 01:12:42 PM  
1 votes:

ikanreed: And here's the evidence of racism.  Maya Angelou's accomplishments reduced to "greeting cards".  That's why we know.  It's not the details of the tradition, it's how how far out of your way you go to minimize the accomplishments of any black woman.


I've read some of Maya Angelou's poems, and I think Hallmark would send them back. They're terrible. Clunkingly terrible. And she got away with it for her whole life because of people like you - people who would call someone a racist or sexist as soon as anyone criticised them.
2014-06-03 01:11:48 PM  
1 votes:
pretentiousness is a way of life for some people... it demonstrates their sense of superiority.. or hides their feeling of inferiority.  Respect from someone directly knowledgeable of your character is one thing, but to demand some one show deference just because you're a twat is another.
2014-06-03 01:06:56 PM  
1 votes:
Kope

True - that's merely ignorant.

Well, you know...de gustibus non est disputandum.

ikanreed

Irrelevant, because we're talking about PhDs, which are granted for art too. There's no paralell to that. She's perhaps one of history's most famous poets. Being reduced to "greeting cards" is explicitly about this guys' racism.

Perhaps. Maybe he just doesn't like poetry. A better test of racism would be if he exalted poets of European ancestry over poets of African ancestry as a rule. Or maybe he just doesn't like this particular poet.

Not saying you're wrong, I just don't see it.

/shrug
2014-06-03 01:06:09 PM  
1 votes:

ikanreed: lamecomedian: "Irrelevant" doesn't mean "contrary to my opinion."

It's okay. Reasoning is hard when you think everything is racism.

And I knew you wouldn't actually reconsider.  It'd be "that's just your opinion, man." Even though the structure of your argument is flagrantly flawed.  And the behavior you're exhibiting correlates strongly to other racist behavior.


Do go on.  I'd love to hear about the other racist things that I do.

It must not be racism because you're not racist, right?

I don't know why I bother.


Probably because it's a lot easier for you to feel like you're helping the world by arguing on the internet than it is to actually go out and help people.
2014-06-03 01:05:38 PM  
1 votes:

ikanreed: I don't know why I bother.


I don't know either.  You're not making the slightest bit of sense.  Ooops, I must be racist.
2014-06-03 01:03:44 PM  
1 votes:
The story of Maya Angelou's turbulent early life (in absolute truth as well as in the vivid, embellished narratives) and her identity as a black woman are inextricable from her body of work as a poet and writer. She had the courage to be outspoken -- for herself and others -- in a society that wanted her to shut up and get along. In this day and age, it's true that people like her are sometimes lauded too gushingly and uncritically by people eager to expiate the racial sins of the past or to display their enlightened tolerance. I understand how that can grate. It doesn't mean there's not value and significance beneath all the progressive obeisance.

Her poetry is not to everyone's taste (I'm not that fond of it), but fused with her identity and history it can be quite powerful. It's a call to those who've grown up struggling, a strong and honest call that says "I survived, I shine, and so can you".

Poetry is only one aspect of why Maya Angelou was important; it was only one of her expressions (she was also an accomplished dancer and musician, for instance). Angelou the person was the force that made her poetry matter, whatever one makes of its raw artistic quality.

UtileDysfunktion: Queen Latifah isn't really a queen, either.


http://www.theonion.com/articles/king-latifah-returns-for-wife,9148/
2014-06-03 01:00:24 PM  
1 votes:

grokca: She's dead, who cares?


Editors. Thanks to the flood of post-mortem articles regarding her, editors are at a loss to nail down exactly how her name should be rendered in print. These things are important to editors.

Dealing with a chip on someone else's shoulder by pointing out the chip on your own shoulder, though, doesn't seem to be the right approach. She's absolutely right, in that it's amazing how "Miss" or "Mrs.", rather than "Dr.", is used when referring to female holders of doctorates - but that's a clear symbol of gender inequity, at least to me, instead of racial inequity, as expression of this trait has been personally observed with little to no heed for the perceived race of the female doctorate holder.

The fun part is that, if we'd move towards a gender-agnostic approach in English, I'd like to believe that many of these issues would vanish - and, just as importantly, many of the gender-specific issues would not be construed as racial-specific or class-specific issues, as well.
2014-06-03 12:59:39 PM  
1 votes:

Kope: It doesn't take great google fu to find similiarly ludicrous things about any famous black person.


FTFY. Farkers looking for racism where there is none? I am FARKING SHOCKED.
2014-06-03 12:58:24 PM  
1 votes:
Angelou attended the California Labor School and graduated at 17.

She went to work thereafter and stayed employed the rest of her life.

There is no record she ever went to college anywhere, she is entirely self--taught.
2014-06-03 12:57:59 PM  
1 votes:

stonicus: AllYourFarkAreBelongToMe: Why is this even a debate?  It's very simple.  If you can't prescribe medicine, you're not a doctor.

The original use of the term Doctor means you were considered well enough educated in an academic field to teach it.  That's all.  It is not exclusive to the medical profession.


I'm well aware of that.  What I was talking about are the pretentious assholes who only hold 'honorary' degrees (or none at all) 

Xetal: Sybarite: Every use of Dr. before you're name when you are not an M.D. is pretentious.

If you think that Dr. is a title only for, or even primarily for, physicians then you might have a laughably bad understanding of the word Doctor.


And you might have an exaggerated definition of the word as it currently exists.  If you introduce yourself as Dr. So-and-So, 99% of people will think you hold an MD unless you explain that you're a 'DOCTOR' of English or mathematics.  My point remains that anyone who doesn't have an MD, and refers to themselves as Dr. So-and-So is a pretentious asswipe.
2014-06-03 12:57:22 PM  
1 votes:

Kope: lamecomedian: Kope: I Browse: I never would've imagined that Maya Angelou was such a divisive figure.

Really? If you think about it, can you name an accomplished black person who is not divisive in American culture?

Will Smith?

Smith has some interesting haters: http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/27054349.html
It doesn't take great google fu to find similiarly ludicrous things about any famous black person.


FTFY.
2014-06-03 12:50:43 PM  
1 votes:

sigdiamond2000: If you think an honorary doctorate doesn't give Maya Angelou the right to call herself "Doctor," that's a perfectly legitimate opinion.

If your first reaction to Maya Angelou's death is pointing out that she's "not a real doctor," you're probably a racist.


What if I point out that she's a terrible poet?
2014-06-03 12:50:27 PM  
1 votes:

ikanreed: lamecomedian: I think inventing the lightning rod/bifocals/a pretty rad stove, mapping the gulf stream, etc. outweighs writing Hallmark cards.

And here's the evidence of racism.  Maya Angelou's accomplishments reduced to "greeting cards".  That's why we know.  It's not the details of the tradition, it's how how far out of your way you go to minimize the accomplishments of any black woman.

"Oh her accomplishments were in the fine arts, which we all know no one can get a regular PhD in."


Man, you suck at this.  It's a denigration of the humanities as being somehow inferior to the hard sciences.  And as someone who's written what - about four of five snarky sentences so far? - I haven't had to go very far out of my way to minimize her accomplishments.  Her poetry is weak, treacly, greeting-card caliber pap.

You personally are racist.  This is not some ad hominem.  This is the inevitable conclusion of applying your argument as intended.  And finding what actually differs.  You are racist.  Seriously.  You are.  It'd be nice if you'd stop.  But the accusation is only going to make you defensive.  You're going to argue.  We're going to argue.  And at the end of the day, there's no non-racist justification for your line of argument(except the misogynist one).

Please rethink your racism(you won't).


I wrote my MA thesis on novels of racial passing and how they evolved based upon US legal classifications of race (as seen in immigration laws and census categories) and  I spent four years teaching at a largely black, low-income high school.  

Please go on about how I'm a virulent racist.
2014-06-03 12:49:56 PM  
1 votes:

ikanreed: lamecomedian: I think inventing the lightning rod/bifocals/a pretty rad stove, mapping the gulf stream, etc. outweighs writing Hallmark cards.

And here's the evidence of racism.  Maya Angelou's accomplishments reduced to "greeting cards".  That's why we know.  It's not the details of the tradition, it's how how far out of your way you go to minimize the accomplishments of any black woman.

"Oh her accomplishments were in the fine arts, which we all know no one can get a regular PhD in."


You personally are racist.  This is not some ad hominem.  This is the inevitable conclusion of applying your argument as intended.  And finding what actually differs.  You are racist.  Seriously.  You are.  It'd be nice if you'd stop.  But the accusation is only going to make you defensive.  You're going to argue.  We're going to argue.  And at the end of the day, there's no non-racist justification for your line of argument(except the misogynist one).

Please rethink your racism(you won't).


Racist?  Misogynist?  I don't see how in the hell you get either of those from that.  All I get from his words is that he doesn't place much value on poetry or literature.  I also agree that some of Benjamin Franklin's inventions exceed the work of any poem.  Even poems written by white males.  Am I also a misogynist racist?
2014-06-03 12:48:23 PM  
1 votes:
Kope:

Really? If you think about it, can you name an accomplished black person who is not divisive in American culture? Even Bill Cosby has his haters.


Al Roker is always my go-to answer. He's about as non-controversial as you can be.
2014-06-03 12:48:16 PM  
1 votes:

debug: sigdiamond2000: If your first reaction to Maya Angelou's death is pointing out that she's "not a real doctor," you're probably a racist.

If she was white and you pointed it out, would you still be a racist?


Nope, just a garden-variety asshole.

\racists are a special subset of assholes
2014-06-03 12:45:05 PM  
1 votes:

Kope: I Browse: I never would've imagined that Maya Angelou was such a divisive figure.

Really? If you think about it, can you name an accomplished black person who is not divisive in American culture? Even Bill Cosby has his haters.


I've noted that for most black celebrity articles, the comments always contain someone yammering about how "classless" said person is in a situation that doesn't appear to warrant it.
2014-06-03 12:42:55 PM  
1 votes:

Kope: I Browse: I never would've imagined that Maya Angelou was such a divisive figure.

Really? If you think about it, can you name an accomplished black person who is not divisive in American culture?


Will Smith?

Morgan Freeman?

James Earl Jones?

That dude who did all the cool stuff with peanuts?
2014-06-03 12:42:29 PM  
1 votes:

lamecomedian: I think inventing the lightning rod/bifocals/a pretty rad stove, mapping the gulf stream, etc. outweighs writing Hallmark cards.


And here's the evidence of racism.  Maya Angelou's accomplishments reduced to "greeting cards".  That's why we know.  It's not the details of the tradition, it's how how far out of your way you go to minimize the accomplishments of any black woman.

"Oh her accomplishments were in the fine arts, which we all know no one can get a regular PhD in."


You personally are racist.  This is not some ad hominem.  This is the inevitable conclusion of applying your argument as intended.  And finding what actually differs.  You are racist.  Seriously.  You are.  It'd be nice if you'd stop.  But the accusation is only going to make you defensive.  You're going to argue.  We're going to argue.  And at the end of the day, there's no non-racist justification for your line of argument(except the misogynist one).

Please rethink your racism(you won't).
2014-06-03 12:37:51 PM  
1 votes:

nickdaisy: Maya Angelou was incredibly overrated and didn't deserve 1/100th the attention she received.


I feel the same way about Shakespeare...
2014-06-03 12:33:19 PM  
1 votes:

Sybarite: Every use of Dr. before you're name when you are not an M.D. is pretentious.


As a collegue of mine noted, when a general practice physician and collegue insisted he not refer to him by his first name but use the appalletion "Dr.":

"My PhD is 9 years of post-graduate research in which one valuably contributes to the expansion of human knowledge and demonstrated mastery of a field. Your MD is a glorified master's degree with an extended practicum. I am a rocket science, and you're not a brain surgeon. If you want to get uppity, I'm 'Dr.' you're 'Ted'."
2014-06-03 12:31:14 PM  
1 votes:
Overrated
2014-06-03 12:28:20 PM  
1 votes:

Sybarite: Every use of Dr. before you're name when you are not an M.D. is pretentious.


Seconded. I have a PhD in physics and cringe to hear myself referred to as "Doctor".

/other than for the party after your defense, everyone has fun referring to each other as doctor on that day, and that day only....
2014-06-03 12:17:23 PM  
1 votes:

GnomePaladin: nickdaisy: Maya Angelou was incredibly overrated and didn't deserve 1/100th the attention she received.

What about her work did you find lacking?

And as long as we're on be subject, Martin Luther King Jr wasn't exactly a respected academic, either.

At the risk of understating the obvious, Dr. King was not exactly known best for his academic achievements.  What was the point of that statement?


It seems he plagiarized his Doctoral Thesis or much of it.. so claims Dr. David Duke who received his Ph.D on the internet from a school in the Ukraine.
2014-06-03 12:15:00 PM  
1 votes:
I took an EE class in college. The instructor was also a long-haired metalhead guitarist with an insane gear collection who built pedals and stuff in his spare time. He came into the first lecture wearing a hockey jersey and began by talking for what seemed like 5 minutes about how to refer to him. The tl;dr version: "I have a PhD, but all that means is I achieved a certain level of knowledge in my field. I'm really uncomfortable with formal titles. Like, really, really, really uncomfortable. Please don't call me Dr. So-and-so or even Mr. So-and-so. Just call me Tom, like everyone else does. If you feel you must call me Dr. out of respect or whatever, I'll understand, but I really prefer you call me Tom." It was almost comically long-winded and a little strange in a "show me on this doll where the word 'Doctor' touched you" sort of way, but he turned out to be a cool, down-to-earth, guy and a good instructor. It was a nice change of pace from the "I have a PhD, therefore I'm better than you" people I had to work with at that university on a daily basis.
2014-06-03 12:11:48 PM  
1 votes:

RexTalionis: topcon: The main issue with Maya Angelou is the fact her poetry is simply horrible.  It's not good.  Where did all the acclaim come from?  We know the answer, of course, and it wasn't because she was an amazing writer, she wasn't.

The main issue that you seem to have never learned the difference between "opinion" and "fact" in elementary school. You might consider finding your first or second grade teacher and asking about the disservice that teacher did to you.

You're making a judgment call on art - merely an opinion - and stating it as some sort of incontrovertible fact. Guess what, people might like and see merit in stuff you don't like. I certainly like Bacon's Figure with Meat, but the next person might not. But that doesn't make my opinion valid and the other person's opinions invalid.


This thread is f%cking *full* of people confusing "fact" for "opinion",on both sides of this stupid f%cking argument. If you don;t like her, you don;t like her. If you love her, that's wonderful for you as well.

Neither position is "right or wrong", but still true to each person.
2014-06-03 12:11:40 PM  
1 votes:

Marcus Aurelius: HeartBurnKid: Marcus Aurelius: Sybarite: Every use of Dr. before you're name when you are not an M.D. is pretentious.

^ This.  If you have a PhD and insist on being called "doctor", you are most likely a complete moron that wishes they were actually intelligent.

Yeah, what does Neil DeGrasse Tyson know anyway?

Neil DeGrasse Tyson, as far as I know, does not insist that you call him "doctor".


Did Maya Angelou?
2014-06-03 11:57:24 AM  
1 votes:

demarke: FLMountainMan: Sybarite: Every use of Dr. before you're name when you are not an M.D. is pretentious.

Yep.  So is signing "Esq." (unless you really need to emphasize or clarify that you are writing the letter as a legal representative for someone)

As an Esq, I totally agree

.

Not only that, but it is grammatically incorrect to refer to yourself as Esquire. Rather, in the US it may (and should) be used when addressing another attorney. Here in the Northeast, it's commonplace, however.

http://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2010/06/is-it-proper-to-refer-to-o ne self-as-esq.html
2014-06-03 11:57:03 AM  
1 votes:
No. Hopefully her death will spearhead the effort to stop forcing children to read her shiatty book though. That was my most hated part of 9th grade English
2014-06-03 11:54:17 AM  
1 votes:

DROxINxTHExWIND: topcon: *Another post about hating something associated with black people*

Ok. We get it.


It must suck constantly getting the equivalent of gold stars (to use someone's analogy) based purely on your race.  Put Maya Angelou's poetry in a vacuum detached from the person who wrote it and no one would care about it.
2014-06-03 11:52:44 AM  
1 votes:

someonelse: topcon: But forget all that - - she was lauded as being a SUPER AMAZING POETESS. When it's obvious even her best known works were absolute shiat.

[img.fark.net image 321x360]


Stop saying criticism isn't valid with that lameass cliched picture.
2014-06-03 11:49:01 AM  
1 votes:
Doctor Maya Eyes Angelou. A musical tribute by Jackson Browne.
2014-06-03 11:48:38 AM  
1 votes:
How long did you spend making your neat little list?

I bet you've got an impressive ignore list and all kinds of cool color codes for other farkers.

Actually, you're the only one I have color coded in this whole thread, and it's entirely an accident.  Someone in another thread was claiming climate change deniers change their stories, so I went back through the idiots, and marked them all with the arguments they were making(the results of my research was just that they were diverse morons, not giant hypocrites).  Yours was a particularly stupid "Scientists will change their minds in 30 years because I'm a magic prognosticator", if you didn't know already.



Farking spot on!  Thanks for the confirmation.
2014-06-03 11:39:56 AM  
1 votes:

NobleHam: Is it really pretension to use an honorific that more than 50 universities have gone out of the way to express that you deserve?


Yes, it is. If 50 universities think she deserves an honorary doctorate, it still means that no university has granted her an actual doctorate.

And "going out of their way"? How much do you think it costs for a university to grant an honorary doctorate?
2014-06-03 11:38:31 AM  
1 votes:
The main issue with Maya Angelou is the fact her poetry is simply horrible.  It's not good.  Where did all the acclaim come from?  We know the answer, of course, and it wasn't because she was an amazing writer, she wasn't.

Notwithstanding she made ludicrous claims about her life, such as her website stating she spoke six languages fluently, which the news media picked up on with glee last week, talking about how amazing she was for speaking six languages fluently.

Search the word "fiction" in her Wikipedia page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_Angelou

" Angelou's major works have been labeled as autobiographical fiction."  She loved creating wacky facts about herself.  Probably said she invented the question mark, too.

But forget all that - - she was lauded as being a SUPER AMAZING POETESS.  When it's obvious even her best known works were absolute shiat.

http://schencka.mindsay.com/a_poem_that_sucks_phenomenal_woman_by_ma ya _angelou.mws

http://www.thelmagazine.com/TheMeasure/archives/2009/07/08/maya-ange lo u-sucks-at-poetry

http://www.theoverratedtimes.com/the-list/maya-angelou/

Any one of those pages offers funny if not academic reasons why Angelou's writing is garbage.

This paragraph says it all:

She's the go-to poet for presidential inaugurations, Kennedy Center galas, and other large, well-funded events where the content or artistic value of a poem is irrelevant, but having heard of the poet is. She's the Paul Shaffer of poetry. ("Guys! We've got a televised all-star band tribute to a famous rock star. Make sure Paul Shaffer is available!") She might be a very nice lady too. And yet Maya Angelou's poetry is uniformly, strikingly, fascinatingly terrible. Try reading one of her poems. We dare you. Just hearing the first stanza makes us tremble with dread: flashbacks to graduation ceremonies in the blazing sun, or an endless outdoor theater festival we made the mistake of attending.
2014-06-03 11:35:09 AM  
1 votes:

Joe USer: untaken_name: Snarfangel: I think only philosophers should be granted Ph.D's.

What *is* a philosopher, really?

A BS artist.


It's the talk on a cereal box or a walk on the slippery rocks.
2014-06-03 11:30:32 AM  
1 votes:
A friend of mine just got a doctorate in education from a fairly prestigious private university in California.  She added both Dr. and Ed.D. to her name on her business cards, LinkedIn, Facebook, and  pretty much anywhere her name is posted.

Her company paid for the degree which sounds like a great deal, but now she's stuck there for something like 5-7 years because if she quits she has to pay back the cost (prorated) of her degree.  She's miserable because she's still doing the same job for the same money, and is incensed that she still reports to her boss old who doesn't have a doctorate.  I'm not sure why anyone involved went through all that trouble just to have nothing but business cards change.  A tuition reimbursement plan run wild, I suppose.  But I digress.

Awarding honorary doctorates is just a way for universities to get a discount on speaker's fees.  The number someone has is just a measure of how many commencement addresses they've given.

/CSB
2014-06-03 11:29:49 AM  
1 votes:
If she was white and you pointed it out, would you still be a racist?

Oh yeah, that's a real common problem.  And happens a lot.  With dead white people.  Your hypothetical sure shut down all those people who are identifying common symptoms of real world racism.

This is #3 on the list of things "not racist" racist people do: Targeted minorities are held to a higher standard as to whether they deserve respect.



How long did you spend making your neat little list?

I bet you've got an impressive ignore list and all kinds of cool color codes for other farkers.
2014-06-03 11:28:35 AM  
1 votes:
Is it racist to point out that her writing was quite childish and banal?
2014-06-03 11:25:34 AM  
1 votes:

Another Government Employee: Most people calling her overrated just don't have interest or can connect to her story.


So my opinion is worth less than yours, because you have decided I don't like her because I can't be bothered to properly appreciate her?

What an ass.
2014-06-03 11:25:25 AM  
1 votes:

untaken_name: stonicus: If it takes X number of hours learning literature to become a Doctor in it, and she has 10 times that amount from actually living it and doing it, then why shouldn't it count?

For the same reason that I don't get an honorary CDL just because I've been driving a car for a long time.


The same reason I don't have an honorary Linux credential even though I've ran Linux for 11 years and have done hundreds of installs.
2014-06-03 11:24:59 AM  
1 votes:

Sybarite: Every use of Dr. before you're name when you are not an M.D. is pretentious.


Look at supervillains. They ALL use their title. They like it to be known that they're doctors, dammit. But you never see Bruce Banner correcting anyone for not calling him Dr Banner.
2014-06-03 11:23:52 AM  
1 votes:

This text is now purple: Sybarite: Every use of Dr. before you're name when you are not an M.D. is pretentious.

If your MD is from an American or Canadian institution, it's not a doctorate, and you shouldn't call yourself a doctor at all. Research physicians have a separate Ph.D. that's a real doctorate.


Came for this. American & Canadian MD's are considered Bachelor's professional degrees, despite the number of years of schooling. To obtain a doctorate as an MD requires additional schooling.

PhD's are doctorates in their respective fields and have had the appropriate education (which is generally more than an MD, actually).

Don't give a royal damn what Angelou's ancestry was, she didn't put in the time to get the education, she doesn't get to be called "Dr." You can be a ninety year old white man with honorary degrees from 50 universities and a hundred published books and I'll say the same damn thing.
2014-06-03 11:23:38 AM  
1 votes:

AllYourFarkAreBelongToMe: Bill Cosby has at least one honorary doctorate. I don't see him running around referring to himself as, Dr. Bill Cosby.


Yes and No.

Bill was a high school dropout.  He joined the US Navy and earned his HS equiv. degree.

He did attend Temple under a scholarship, but never finished.  Temple later awarded him a bachelors based on "Life experiences"


But Cosby did earn his Doctors of Education from University of Mass. by submitting a thesis titled: "An Integration of the Visual Media via Fat Albert and the Cosby Kids into the Elementary School Curriculum as a Teaching Aid and Vehicle to Achieve Increased Learning." It's 142 pages long, with another 100 pages of bibliography and appendices.

So some of his education was earned and some was "awarded", but I've never seen him use the "Dr" title, even on the books he has written
Bf+
2014-06-03 11:23:13 AM  
1 votes:
This just in...
jlcauvin.comwww.unysonlogistics.com

We're not making any claims, just questioning the validity Rug Doctor's "degree".  Is he really a doctor, or was the document "doctored"?
Joining us on our panel, ladies and gentlemen, is Joe the Plumber... Welcome, Joe.
2014-06-03 11:23:12 AM  
1 votes:

stonicus: fireclown: FTFA:"To him and his ridiculousness, I say, "Oppenheimer, be for real." "

Well, the author does have her opponent firmly in the iron grip of logic.

The bottom line is pretty much if you don't actually earn a PhD or MD, you don't rate the honorific doctor.  An honorary doctorate means that the school really likes you, and that you are kinda awesome based on that, but it's not an official PhD/MD.  Angilou is wrong for calling herself Dr Angilou.

/go ahead.  I've been called racist by better looking people than YOU.

But in her field, she probably did more, wrote more, and knew more about poetry and literature than people who just sat in classes.  Her life experience shouldn't be discounted as if it didn't matter.  If it takes X number of hours learning literature to become a Doctor in it, and she has 10 times that amount from actually living it and doing it, then why shouldn't it count?


I have been working in IT for over 15 years. That doesn't make me a network engineer. It is a title given to people who have put in the academic hours and course study. She wasn't a PhD. She had more than enough time to get one. And it probably wouldn't have been all that difficult for her but she didn't put in the work to obtain the PhD. As such she should not have called herself Doctor no matter how much the woman at Salon wants to try to justify it. So Angelou was a jerk about certain things, like being called Dr when she wasn't one. Lots of artists are jerks, doesn't reduce the importance of their art.
2014-06-03 11:21:38 AM  
1 votes:
Wow. What a stupid waste of an article.
No, she's not a real doctor. There isn't even a decent argument and anyway she's dead.
2014-06-03 11:18:35 AM  
1 votes:

Marcus Aurelius: Sybarite: Every use of Dr. before you're name when you are not an M.D. is pretentious.

^ This.  If you have a PhD and insist on being called "doctor", you are most likely a complete moron that wishes they were actually intelligent.


upload.wikimedia.org
I bet you absolutely hate this guy.
(He's only an honorary Kentucky Colonel)
2014-06-03 11:16:33 AM  
1 votes:
This is my favorite part:

"Maya Angelou's work and words were a mainstay of my childhood. I vividly remember my mother's copy of "I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings" lying around the house....Even though I didn't read "Caged Bird" until college"
2014-06-03 11:16:13 AM  
1 votes:

AllYourFarkAreBelongToMe: Why is this even a debate?  It's very simple.  If you can't prescribe medicine, you're not a doctor.


The original use of the term Doctor means you were considered well enough educated in an academic field to teach it.  That's all.  It is not exclusive to the medical profession.
2014-06-03 11:15:55 AM  
1 votes:

chaddsfarkprefect: Try calling the restaurant guy in whites a cook, talk about misplaced sensitivity.


Seriously? Unless you're running the kitchen (and not just the line) you're not a chef.

/And we only call our chef by title when there are other people around
2014-06-03 11:15:31 AM  
1 votes:

Rising Ape: Sybarite: Every use of Dr. before you're name when you are not an M.D. is pretentious.

Dr. was a religious & academic title before physicians adopted it (the original English word for a medical practitioner being "leech"). In fact it comes from the Latin word for "teacher",

Insisting on it non-professionally is a bit pretentious, but that's true for medical doctors too.


Even more pretentious for a lawn mower.

i.ytimg.com
2014-06-03 11:14:01 AM  
1 votes:
Could she have? Most certainly. Should she have? No. Unless she was a narcissistic asshole.
2014-06-03 11:13:34 AM  
1 votes:
Why is this even a debate?  It's very simple.  If you can't prescribe medicine, you're not a doctor.

You may have "doctorate" degree in something other than medicine, and that's great.  Looks nice on a resume, but it doesn't make you a doctor.

Also, if you don't have an MD and insist that people call you 'doctor', you're a narcissistic farkwad who more than likely flunked-out of Med School like all the other chiropractors.

/Bill Cosby has at least one honorary doctorate.  I don't see him running around referring to himself as, Dr. Bill Cosby.
2014-06-03 11:12:46 AM  
1 votes:
what about dr science, he has a masters degree, in science!
2014-06-03 11:11:59 AM  
1 votes:
1. You can call yourself Dr because you have an honorary doctorate
2. But you're being a pretentious douchebag if you do

I don't know much about Maya Angelou, except that white women love writing her quotes to seem wise. Was she a good person or not? You tell me. But on this matter, she was being a pretentious douchebag.
2014-06-03 11:10:18 AM  
1 votes:

Rising Ape: Sybarite: Every use of Dr. before you're name when you are not an M.D. is pretentious.

Dr. was a religious & academic title before physicians adopted it (the original English word for a medical practitioner being "leech"). In fact it comes from the Latin word for "teacher",

Insisting on it non-professionally is a bit pretentious, but that's true for medical doctors too.


Opening credits.  Begin movie "CSB"

Cast: the uber-sexy and ultra-talented megastar, K3rmy as Himself

Setting: Call Center
When: Over a decade ago in the past
Cue scene:  K3rmy, loved by all, on the phone at a technical call center.
"Click Start, then click run.  Now type REGEDIT and press the ENTER key"
"Sure, I will be happy to assist you with swapping the motherboard out with the replacement you received from us today"
"We are going to boot into SAFE MODE, okay?  Now, when you turn on the system. . ."
All was wonderful (as could be in call center land - until)
"That you for calling *company* portable tech support, this is K3rmy"
"Yes, K3rmy, this is DOCTOR (their emphasis, not mine) So-and-So"
Now, as a lowly ranked peon, K3rmy was required to use said prefix if the customer requested it.  Normally, he would refrain from addressing the user at all until the end of the converstion.
"To recap, the purpose of the call was that there was a dead hamster in your CD-ROM tray and we have resolved the issue by removing said rodent.  In the future to prevent this, I would suggest that slices of provolone cheese do not go is said tray, even if they are round and of matching size, agreed?"
Doctor So-and-so, "Agreed."
"I do thank you for calling "company" portable tech support and hope you have a good evening, BOB!!" and then end the call.
Roll credits.  Await Oscar nominations for a brilliant performance.

Yeah yeah - childish, I know.
2014-06-03 11:06:39 AM  
1 votes:
When I check-in at the hotel I stay at while in Denver I always make a point to say I'm a State employee (University) so I can get the discount. As soon as they learn I work at a school they start calling me "Dr." Melgoesontour. I don't bother correcting them.
2014-06-03 11:05:45 AM  
1 votes:
FTFA:"To him and his ridiculousness, I say, "Oppenheimer, be for real." "

Well, the author does have her opponent firmly in the iron grip of logic.

The bottom line is pretty much if you don't actually earn a PhD or MD, you don't rate the honorific doctor.  An honorary doctorate means that the school really likes you, and that you are kinda awesome based on that, but it's not an official PhD/MD.  Angilou is wrong for calling herself Dr Angilou.

/go ahead.  I've been called racist by better looking people than YOU.
2014-06-03 11:03:56 AM  
1 votes:

Marcus Aurelius: Sybarite: Every use of Dr. before you're name when you are not an M.D. is pretentious.

^ This.  If you have a PhD and insist on being called "doctor", you are most likely a complete moron that wishes they were actually intelligent.


This and that. I teach at a community college, and we have several Post-hole Diggers who get all butthurt about it. The actual professors from the nearby university who teach an adjunct course or two I can see, but "Dr. So-and-so" with her/his PhD. in Special Ed or Administration? Go f*ck yourselves.
2014-06-03 11:02:38 AM  
1 votes:

Marcus Aurelius: Sybarite: Every use of Dr. before you're name when you are not an M.D. is pretentious.

^ This.  If you have a PhD and insist on being called "doctor", you are most likely a complete moron that wishes they were actually intelligent.


ithadtobeknit.files.wordpress.com
2014-06-03 10:59:34 AM  
1 votes:

Kann: not everything has to be viewed though a prism of race and sex


When that's your stock in trade..... and all you have is a hammer...
2014-06-03 10:59:24 AM  
1 votes:
Unable to care. If you have a doctorate and wish me to call you doctor, I probably will as a courtesy. If you don't have a doctorate and wish me to call you doctor, I may or may not, depending on how courteous I feel. Big whoop. No racism required.
2014-06-03 10:57:33 AM  
1 votes:
Brittney Cooper  teaches Women's and Gender Studies and Africana Studies at Rutgers.

Dr. Cooper's comments also included this gem about the asshats at Westboro protesting the funeral.

"Are black women not allowed dignity in death? Must their funerals become a brawl and a ruckus?Are black women not allowed dignity in death? Must their funerals become a brawl and a ruckus?"

Hey Doc. No everything is about race and sex. Those morons hate everyone and not everything has to be viewed though a prism of race and sex.
2014-06-03 10:57:08 AM  
1 votes:
My last family doctor never introduced himself as Doctor.  He was always Ron.  And he had graduated near the top of his class, magna cum laude.  The younger generation of dentists also seem to be more comfortable just using first names, or Dr. first name, rather than the formal Dr. last name.
2014-06-03 10:56:28 AM  
1 votes:
It has zero to do with being black, and everything to do with the fact I think anyone who gets upset at not being called doctor for their PhD is petty.  Lawyers have just as much right to be called "Doctor" but they don't biatch about it.

Also, FTA: To him and his ridiculousness, I say, "Oppenheimer, be for real." I have an earned doctorateBe for real?
2014-06-03 10:46:55 AM  
1 votes:

borg: Sybarite: Every use of Dr. before you're name when you are not an M.D. is pretentious.

What about a DDS or DVM ?


If you refuse to call a DDS a Dr., you're a rabid anti-dentite!
2014-06-03 10:43:30 AM  
1 votes:
A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet.
2014-06-03 10:40:31 AM  
1 votes:
She's dead, who cares?
2014-06-03 10:01:21 AM  
1 votes:
If you were awarded an honorary doctorate from some big froo froo school that didn't want you to use the 'Dr.' prefix, then you should just go get another one from Uncle Earl's Hairdo and Nail College, too.
2014-06-03 09:41:10 AM  
1 votes:

media.giphy.com

 
Displayed 160 of 160 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report