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(Salon)   Did 50 honorary doctorates give Maya Angelou the right to call herself "Dr. Angelou"? If you answered no, you're a racist   (salon.com) divider line 548
    More: Interesting, poetic justice, cultural practice, doctoral dissertations, honorary degrees  
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7428 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Jun 2014 at 10:38 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-03 01:02:43 PM  

lamecomedian: "Irrelevant" doesn't mean "contrary to my opinion."

It's okay. Reasoning is hard when you think everything is racism.


And I knew you wouldn't actually reconsider.  It'd be "that's just your opinion, man." Even though the structure of your argument is flagrantly flawed.  And the behavior you're exhibiting correlates strongly to other racist behavior.   It must not be racism because you're not racist, right?

I don't know why I bother.
 
2014-06-03 01:03:31 PM  

chimp_ninja: Sybarite: Every use of Dr. before you're name when you are not an M.D. is pretentious.

The first rule is that it replaces "Mr."/"Ms."  Normally when you're talking to other people, including co-workers, you don't insist on being called "Mr."/"Ms.", so the title is irrelevant.

The second rule is that it only matters in a professional context, not for restaurant reservations and other BS.  Oooh.  You have a Ph.D.  Sadly for you, you need the same amount of food as the rest of us, so get in line and keep it to yourself.

The third rule is that you never correct anyone for yourself, because it makes you look worse than just not having the title.

Am I being introduced at a business meeting?  Am I picking a signature for a work email to someone that doesn't already know me?  Then I'm Dr. _ninja.  Otherwise, it never gets used.



This is a good post, I agree.  But to add on, the title means something.  That's why when you're being introduced to someone new, you introduce yourself as Dr. _ninja.  It tells the room/person perhaps this guy does know what he's talking about.

Honorary doctorates are not education, they are awards.  They don't confer the title and some Universities will explicitly state you cannot use the title Dr. if you accept their honorary doctorate.  She shouldn't have called herself Dr. Angelou.
 
2014-06-03 01:03:44 PM  
The story of Maya Angelou's turbulent early life (in absolute truth as well as in the vivid, embellished narratives) and her identity as a black woman are inextricable from her body of work as a poet and writer. She had the courage to be outspoken -- for herself and others -- in a society that wanted her to shut up and get along. In this day and age, it's true that people like her are sometimes lauded too gushingly and uncritically by people eager to expiate the racial sins of the past or to display their enlightened tolerance. I understand how that can grate. It doesn't mean there's not value and significance beneath all the progressive obeisance.

Her poetry is not to everyone's taste (I'm not that fond of it), but fused with her identity and history it can be quite powerful. It's a call to those who've grown up struggling, a strong and honest call that says "I survived, I shine, and so can you".

Poetry is only one aspect of why Maya Angelou was important; it was only one of her expressions (she was also an accomplished dancer and musician, for instance). Angelou the person was the force that made her poetry matter, whatever one makes of its raw artistic quality.

UtileDysfunktion: Queen Latifah isn't really a queen, either.


http://www.theonion.com/articles/king-latifah-returns-for-wife,9148/
 
2014-06-03 01:03:47 PM  

ikanreed: CheapEngineer: Perhaps he's just not f*cking impressed by poets. Since no where in his opinion of Maya Angelou was her gender or race mentioned.

static.ddmcdn.com

Bullshiat.
Complete bullshiat.
Double bullshiat.  We were talking about how honorary PhDs can allow for someone to be called doctor, when they were white.  Dr. Franklin was brought up as someone who was so accomplished in his field that he got honorary degrees that were respected.

Maya Angelou is 100% a parellel there.  Top of her field.  PhDs in that field as a result.  Now, if fine arts degrees didn't count in the first place, sure.  We'd have a reasonable excuse.


As other people with actual reading comprehension skills were able to discern, that was my point.

That doesn't work.  They're racist.  And people rushing to defend them make no farking sense.  Is it a "I'm terrified of being called a racist too" thing?  Because I'm not going there.  One specific argument is undoubtedly steeped in racist overtones, regardless of whether race is brought up.

"You must be racist for identifying racism" is the lamest piece of shiat argument anyone has ever used.

I know I'm not getting through to you.  I don't care anymore.


I'm surprised you cared about us racists in the first place, since we're just convenient tools to give yourself a sense of moral worth.  Otherwise you'd be off arguing about things that actually matter, like education, incarceration, drug policy, etc.  You know, instead of whining about whether or not a dead person should or shouldn't get a specific title.
 
2014-06-03 01:04:31 PM  

ikanreed: stonicus: No, not saying it "can't" be, just saying it doesn't "have" to be, which is what you illogically claim. In your mind, the ONLY reason someone doesn't like Maya Angelou's poetry is because they are racist. The only one being 1 dimensional is you my friend.

When they're argument lacks a fundamental merit, and there's a well documented and understood phenomenon among people with racist tendencies to do exactly this?  Yeah.

Farkers are by-and-large terrified of the idea that racism can be anything but the overt kind.  I don't get why.


I am just not a fan of poetry.  Why is that so hard for you to grasp?  No deep dark hidden reason.  No underlying evil agenda I am trying to spread.  I just don't like poetry.  Why does this hurt you so bad?
 
2014-06-03 01:05:23 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Sybarite: Every use of Dr. before you're name when you are not an M.D. is pretentious.

^ This.  If you have a PhD and insist on being called "doctor", you are most likely a complete moron that wishes they were actually intelligent.


I worked with someone with PhD in education.  Her emails/correspondence routinely sounded like they were typed by a 12 year old.

/Piled high & Deep
 
2014-06-03 01:05:38 PM  

ikanreed: I don't know why I bother.


I don't know either.  You're not making the slightest bit of sense.  Ooops, I must be racist.
 
2014-06-03 01:06:09 PM  

ikanreed: lamecomedian: "Irrelevant" doesn't mean "contrary to my opinion."

It's okay. Reasoning is hard when you think everything is racism.

And I knew you wouldn't actually reconsider.  It'd be "that's just your opinion, man." Even though the structure of your argument is flagrantly flawed.  And the behavior you're exhibiting correlates strongly to other racist behavior.


Do go on.  I'd love to hear about the other racist things that I do.

It must not be racism because you're not racist, right?

I don't know why I bother.


Probably because it's a lot easier for you to feel like you're helping the world by arguing on the internet than it is to actually go out and help people.
 
2014-06-03 01:06:56 PM  
Kope

True - that's merely ignorant.

Well, you know...de gustibus non est disputandum.

ikanreed

Irrelevant, because we're talking about PhDs, which are granted for art too. There's no paralell to that. She's perhaps one of history's most famous poets. Being reduced to "greeting cards" is explicitly about this guys' racism.

Perhaps. Maybe he just doesn't like poetry. A better test of racism would be if he exalted poets of European ancestry over poets of African ancestry as a rule. Or maybe he just doesn't like this particular poet.

Not saying you're wrong, I just don't see it.

/shrug
 
2014-06-03 01:09:09 PM  

Bf+: I don't care, I'm still naming my son "Dr. Judge Bf+ the Third, PHD"


There's still room for a "Rev." and an "Esq." in there.

Me, I'm just naming my kid "Doctor," so people have to call him "Doctor" no matter what.
 
2014-06-03 01:09:44 PM  
Kope:

Seriously - you can name the most innocuous, nicest, classiest famous, accomplished black person you can, and someone out there is trying to tear them down.


Sadly, you're probably right. I've been sitting here for like five minutes trying to think of another famous black person who would be universally respected. I dunno...Crispus Attucks maybe?
 
2014-06-03 01:10:21 PM  
 
2014-06-03 01:11:01 PM  

Facetious_Speciest: Kope

True - that's merely ignorant.

Well, you know...de gustibus non est disputandum.

ikanreed

Irrelevant, because we're talking about PhDs, which are granted for art too. There's no paralell to that. She's perhaps one of history's most famous poets. Being reduced to "greeting cards" is explicitly about this guys' racism.

Perhaps. Maybe he just doesn't like poetry. A better test of racism would be if he exalted poets of European ancestry over poets of African ancestry as a rule. Or maybe he just doesn't like this particular poet.


Winner winner, chicken dinner.

CSB: My very first grad seminar I got embroiled in a polite but vigorous debate about the value of poetry vs. prose in the 21st century... and then during my exams, I ended up admitting that I might have had a change of heart.  Kind of a weird full-circle thing.

/Not much 20th century+ stuff that I care for.
 
2014-06-03 01:11:36 PM  

I Browse: Kope:

Seriously - you can name the most innocuous, nicest, classiest famous, accomplished black person you can, and someone out there is trying to tear them down.


Sadly, you're probably right. I've been sitting here for like five minutes trying to think of another famous black person who would be universally respected. I dunno...Crispus Attucks maybe?


blog.timesunion.com
 
2014-06-03 01:11:48 PM  
pretentiousness is a way of life for some people... it demonstrates their sense of superiority.. or hides their feeling of inferiority.  Respect from someone directly knowledgeable of your character is one thing, but to demand some one show deference just because you're a twat is another.
 
2014-06-03 01:12:07 PM  

I Browse: Kope:

Seriously - you can name the most innocuous, nicest, classiest famous, accomplished black person you can, and someone out there is trying to tear them down.


Sadly, you're probably right. I've been sitting here for like five minutes trying to think of another famous black person who would be universally respected. I dunno...Crispus Attucks maybe?


Desmond Tutu?
Nelson Mandela?
Frederick Douglass?
 
2014-06-03 01:12:42 PM  

ikanreed: And here's the evidence of racism.  Maya Angelou's accomplishments reduced to "greeting cards".  That's why we know.  It's not the details of the tradition, it's how how far out of your way you go to minimize the accomplishments of any black woman.


I've read some of Maya Angelou's poems, and I think Hallmark would send them back. They're terrible. Clunkingly terrible. And she got away with it for her whole life because of people like you - people who would call someone a racist or sexist as soon as anyone criticised them.
 
2014-06-03 01:15:10 PM  
I Browse

Sadly, you're probably right. I've been sitting here for like five minutes trying to think of another famous black person who would be universally respected. I dunno...Crispus Attucks maybe?

No one is universally-respected. I'm sure textbooks in British primary schools don't paint Attucks as any kind of martyr or hero. Most of his killers were successfully defended in court by a future American president (who ironically included some fun racism as part of their defence).
 
2014-06-03 01:15:13 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-06-03 01:15:20 PM  
lamecomedian:

Desmond Tutu?
Nelson Mandela?
Frederick Douglass?



Judging by all the Farkers who shiat on Mandela's grave when he died, I doubt Tutu or Douglass would fair much better.
 
2014-06-03 01:15:57 PM  

farkeruk: ikanreed: And here's the evidence of racism.  Maya Angelou's accomplishments reduced to "greeting cards".  That's why we know.  It's not the details of the tradition, it's how how far out of your way you go to minimize the accomplishments of any black woman.

I've read some of Maya Angelou's poems, and I think Hallmark would send them back. They're terrible. Clunkingly terrible. And she got away with it for her whole life because of people like you - people who would call someone a racist or sexist as soon as anyone criticised them.



Oh, so people bought and studied the writing of this one black woman because they were scared of being labelled racist? Well, how noble of you to be the first to fall on the sword for all of the wrongfully accused who WOULD stand up against this woman's tyranny if not for the protection given to her by guilty whites and blacks who play the race card.
 
2014-06-03 01:16:08 PM  

stonicus: fireclown: FTFA:"To him and his ridiculousness, I say, "Oppenheimer, be for real." "

Well, the author does have her opponent firmly in the iron grip of logic.

The bottom line is pretty much if you don't actually earn a PhD or MD, you don't rate the honorific doctor.  An honorary doctorate means that the school really likes you, and that you are kinda awesome based on that, but it's not an official PhD/MD.  Angilou is wrong for calling herself Dr Angilou.

/go ahead.  I've been called racist by better looking people than YOU.

But in her field, she probably did more, wrote more, and knew more about poetry and literature than people who just sat in classes.  Her life experience shouldn't be discounted as if it didn't matter.  If it takes X number of hours learning literature to become a Doctor in it, and she has 10 times that amount from actually living it and doing it, then why shouldn't it count?


Unfortunately, many people assign more value to proving one's ability to sit in a classroom for years while someone else's opinions are crammed into their heads then regurgitating it all back out in some bullshiat thesis, than actual real life achievements.
 
2014-06-03 01:16:21 PM  

CADMonkey79: Sybarite: Every use of Dr. before you're name when you are not an M.D. is pretentious.

THIS!


Given that MD's appropriated the title from PhDs, Why do you preference them?
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_%28title%29#Origins
 
2014-06-03 01:17:04 PM  

I Browse: lamecomedian:

Desmond Tutu?
Nelson Mandela?
Frederick Douglass?


Judging by all the Farkers who shiat on Mandela's grave when he died, I doubt Tutu or Douglass would fair much better.


Okay, how about Jesse Owens and Jackie Robinson?
 
2014-06-03 01:17:35 PM  

lamecomedian: /Not much 20th century+ stuff that I care for.


I subscribed to Poetry magazine last year and found it quite enjoyable. Yeah, there were lots of stinker poems, lots of YMMV stuff and some masturbatory experimental dreck, but there were always a few poems in each issue that really stirred me. You might enjoy checking out an issue or two.

There does seem to be an attitude in modern poetry that rhyme and meter, especially direct, unsubtle uses thereof, are quaint and trite and appropriate only for irony. This pisses me off.
 
Oak
2014-06-03 01:17:43 PM  

Gunderson: If Mr Scholls can use the Doctor prefix, so can Maya.



Dr. William M. Scholl was an M.D.
 
2014-06-03 01:17:59 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: farkeruk: ikanreed: And here's the evidence of racism.  Maya Angelou's accomplishments reduced to "greeting cards".  That's why we know.  It's not the details of the tradition, it's how how far out of your way you go to minimize the accomplishments of any black woman.

I've read some of Maya Angelou's poems, and I think Hallmark would send them back. They're terrible. Clunkingly terrible. And she got away with it for her whole life because of people like you - people who would call someone a racist or sexist as soon as anyone criticised them.


Oh, so people bought and studied the writing of this one black woman because they were scared of being labelled racist? Well, how noble of you to be the first to fall on the sword for all of the wrongfully accused who WOULD stand up against this woman's tyranny if not for the protection given to her by guilty whites and blacks who play the race card.


Lots of people buy Justin Bieber's music, too.  Popularity is not an indication of quality.
 
2014-06-03 01:19:48 PM  
Inchoate

There does seem to be an attitude in modern poetry that rhyme and meter, especially direct, unsubtle uses thereof, are quaint and trite and appropriate only for irony.

Uuugh. This.
 
2014-06-03 01:20:29 PM  
During  Robinson's life he was reviled by a great many people. Same with Owens.
 
2014-06-03 01:22:48 PM  

Inchoate: lamecomedian: /Not much 20th century+ stuff that I care for.

I subscribed to Poetry magazine last year and found it quite enjoyable. Yeah, there were lots of stinker poems, lots of YMMV stuff and some masturbatory experimental dreck, but there were always a few poems in each issue that really stirred me. You might enjoy checking out an issue or two.

There does seem to be an attitude in modern poetry that rhyme and meter, especially direct, unsubtle uses thereof, are quaint and trite and appropriate only for irony. This pisses me off.


Very much with you there.  I think poets have been getting a little too free with their verse.

I know, I know, that was terrible.

Of the 20th century lot, I've kind of developed a liking for Thomas Hardy, but MAN that dude is depressing.  Gotta take him in small doses.
 
2014-06-03 01:23:07 PM  
Did 50 honorary doctorates give Maya Angelou the right to call herself "Dr. Angelou"?

Only if she lacks self-esteem and shame.
 
2014-06-03 01:24:12 PM  

CADMonkey79: stonicus: fireclown: FTFA:"To him and his ridiculousness, I say, "Oppenheimer, be for real." "

Well, the author does have her opponent firmly in the iron grip of logic.

The bottom line is pretty much if you don't actually earn a PhD or MD, you don't rate the honorific doctor.  An honorary doctorate means that the school really likes you, and that you are kinda awesome based on that, but it's not an official PhD/MD.  Angilou is wrong for calling herself Dr Angilou.

/go ahead.  I've been called racist by better looking people than YOU.

But in her field, she probably did more, wrote more, and knew more about poetry and literature than people who just sat in classes.  Her life experience shouldn't be discounted as if it didn't matter.  If it takes X number of hours learning literature to become a Doctor in it, and she has 10 times that amount from actually living it and doing it, then why shouldn't it count?

Unfortunately, many people assign more value to proving one's ability to sit in a classroom for years while someone else's opinions are crammed into their heads then regurgitating it all back out in some bullshiat thesis, than actual real life achievements many people demand that one prove one's ability to a neutral third party rather than just taking one's word that one is qualified.


I've been wiring houses for years! I don't need to take some useless tests to prove that I know what I am doing. You'll just have to take my word for it and hope like hell that your house doesn't burn down around you while you sleep.
 
2014-06-03 01:25:08 PM  
After receiving 50 honorary doctorates, I don't have a major problem with the lady calling herself a Doctor.

Though, in reality, if you didn't do the work, you can't legally do so. Most folks that I know of with honorary doctorates usually will list them as such on any business stationary or cards they use. If you got an honorary doctorate in medicine, you couldn't actually practice as a physician. You would not have the knowledge required.

As had been mentioned before, it wasn't exactly nice, necessary or even polite to mention that this lady's doctorates didn't count -- especially on the day of her funeral or within the mourning period.

IMO, it wasn't necessary to start a racist rant either mainly because racist rants from African-Americans have become far too common -- which means their effectiveness has diminished because folks get tired of reading them. Kind of like we know when certain news channels start urgently informing us of impending disasters, that they're going to be greatly exaggerated.
Or being warned of things which can cause Cancer, since everything, by now, apparently does.

The 'separate but equal' rule of thumb embraced by most African Americans tends to put a strain on relations. I know of no Middle Eastern physicians in practice who wear the traditional garb and turban of their homeland in American hospitals, but I do know of African American ones who show up fully dressed in 'traditional' African garb.

Again, the lady deserved her honorifics, her community chose to call her 'Dr.', she did a lot of good work and it was rude to defame her upon her burial by trying to down play her awards. It also wasn't the best thing to write a racist rant about in rebuttal.
 
2014-06-03 01:26:04 PM  

Kope: During  Robinson's life he was reviled by a great many people. Same with Owens.


I thought we were going for the broader historical (or at least contemporary) take.
 
2014-06-03 01:26:38 PM  
Facetious_Speciest:

No one is universally-respected. I'm sure textbooks in British primary schools don't paint Attucks as any kind of martyr or hero. Most of his killers were successfully defended in court by a future American president (who ironically included some fun racism as part of their defence).


True. "Universally respected" was a poor choice of phrasing. I'm sure there were some people out there who even hated Mr. Rogers.

I guess what surprised me about the Maya Angelou backlash is that I didn't think people had strong negative feelings about her. She seemed fairly non-controversial to me. But I suppose there's no such thing as that anymore.
 
2014-06-03 01:27:02 PM  

lamecomedian: DROxINxTHExWIND: farkeruk: ikanreed: And here's the evidence of racism.  Maya Angelou's accomplishments reduced to "greeting cards".  That's why we know.  It's not the details of the tradition, it's how how far out of your way you go to minimize the accomplishments of any black woman.

I've read some of Maya Angelou's poems, and I think Hallmark would send them back. They're terrible. Clunkingly terrible. And she got away with it for her whole life because of people like you - people who would call someone a racist or sexist as soon as anyone criticised them.


Oh, so people bought and studied the writing of this one black woman because they were scared of being labelled racist? Well, how noble of you to be the first to fall on the sword for all of the wrongfully accused who WOULD stand up against this woman's tyranny if not for the protection given to her by guilty whites and blacks who play the race card.

Lots of people buy Justin Bieber's music, too.  Popularity is not an indication of quality.



Oh, I get it. Whatever you don't like is "low quality". That's pretty egotistical. And we thought Ms. Angelou had a big head.
 
2014-06-03 01:28:48 PM  
They called PHDs doctors back then because they didn't have modern medicine...  you get the black plague you talked to a priest, then ask a "doctor-- of philosophy" for a cure and died in a sodden mess of bloody pustules.  You quit deserving to be called doctors the second someone else figured out how to help people better.

I don't give a fark what they called people in the middle ages, you're not a doctor anymore. My dad is a doctor, nothing pissed me off more than some borderline competent to teach high school liberal arts professors insisting on me calling them doctors.  You want to get called a doctor, get approved by the state to write a prescription.

When this shiat finally goes all walking dead, who do you want as your doctor?  A PHD who's going to tell you what you could do if they had the right tools and a couple of years to do research, or a doctor who's going to save your ass right then and there.

/I am a licensed attorney, and ESQ doesn't and shouldn't mean shiat to anyone, it's just something attorneys have traditionally thrown after their names to sound important.   There's no law against calling yourself ESQ as long as you don't do it to misrepresent yourself in a transaction or as a professional...  if you add ESQ to your name and charge to talk to people you might get hit up for misrepresenting yourself as an attorney, but that's just cause the general public is stupid enough to assume you are one.
 
2014-06-03 01:29:51 PM  

kindms: stonicus: fireclown: FTFA:"To him and his ridiculousness, I say, "Oppenheimer, be for real." "

Well, the author does have her opponent firmly in the iron grip of logic.

The bottom line is pretty much if you don't actually earn a PhD or MD, you don't rate the honorific doctor.  An honorary doctorate means that the school really likes you, and that you are kinda awesome based on that, but it's not an official PhD/MD.  Angilou is wrong for calling herself Dr Angilou.

/go ahead.  I've been called racist by better looking people than YOU.

But in her field, she probably did more, wrote more, and knew more about poetry and literature than people who just sat in classes.  Her life experience shouldn't be discounted as if it didn't matter.  If it takes X number of hours learning literature to become a Doctor in it, and she has 10 times that amount from actually living it and doing it, then why shouldn't it count?

I have been working in IT for over 15 years. That doesn't make me a network engineer. It is a title given to people who have put in the academic hours and course study. She wasn't a PhD. She had more than enough time to get one. And it probably wouldn't have been all that difficult for her but she didn't put in the work to obtain the PhD. As such she should not have called herself Doctor no matter how much the woman at Salon wants to try to justify it. So Angelou was a jerk about certain things, like being called Dr when she wasn't one. Lots of artists are jerks, doesn't reduce the importance of their art.


Why wouldn't you be able to call yourself that ? With that much experience are you not allowed to get the same certificates?  I'm still trying to figure out why more actual architects and licensed engineers don't take more exception to any IT people calling themselves network "engineers" or "architects".
 
2014-06-03 01:30:22 PM  
Rik01

...racist rants from African-Americans have become far too common -- which means their effectiveness has diminished because folks get tired of reading them.

My lack of interest in racist rants by African Americans has more to do with the fact that they're racist rants, rather than having heard too many of them. Though, honestly, the fact that they're usually racist rants directed at my particular racial group probably has something to do with that.

I know of no Middle Eastern physicians in practice who wear the traditional garb and turban of their homeland in American hospitals, but I do know of African American ones who show up fully dressed in 'traditional' African garb.

On the other hand, this is a thing? I honestly wouldn't think twice about a doctor showing up in kente.
 
2014-06-03 01:32:01 PM  
lamecomedian:

Okay, how about Jesse Owens and Jackie Robinson?


Both of them were outspoken about politics and social issues after their athletic careers. Wouldn't be hard to find critics attacking them from both sides.
 
2014-06-03 01:34:52 PM  

Rik01: After receiving 50 honorary doctorates, I don't have a major problem with the lady calling herself a Doctor.

Though, in reality, if you didn't do the work, you can't legally do so. Most folks that I know of with honorary doctorates usually will list them as such on any business stationary or cards they use. If you got an honorary doctorate in medicine, you couldn't actually practice as a physician. You would not have the knowledge required.

As had been mentioned before, it wasn't exactly nice, necessary or even polite to mention that this lady's doctorates didn't count -- especially on the day of her funeral or within the mourning period.

IMO, it wasn't necessary to start a racist rant either mainly because racist rants from African-Americans have become far too common -- which means their effectiveness has diminished because folks get tired of reading them. Kind of like we know when certain news channels start urgently informing us of impending disasters, that they're going to be greatly exaggerated.
Or being warned of things which can cause Cancer, since everything, by now, apparently does.

The 'separate but equal' rule of thumb embraced by most African Americans tends to put a strain on relations. I know of no Middle Eastern physicians in practice who wear the traditional garb and turban of their homeland in American hospitals, but I do know of African American ones who show up fully dressed in 'traditional' African garb.

Again, the lady deserved her honorifics, her community chose to call her 'Dr.', she did a lot of good work and it was rude to defame her upon her burial by trying to down play her awards. It also wasn't the best thing to write a racist rant about in rebuttal.



By "her communicty" did you mean Americans or did you mean "the blacks", because I don't think Columbia University is a HBCU.
 
2014-06-03 01:34:55 PM  
I Browse

"Universally respected" was a poor choice of phrasing. I'm sure there were some people out there who even hated Mr. Rogers.

An unmitigated bastard. He ruled Make-Believe with an iron fist.

I guess what surprised me about the Maya Angelou backlash is that I didn't think people had strong negative feelings about her. She seemed fairly non-controversial to me. But I suppose there's no such thing as that anymore.

I have literally never read any of her work. So, honestly, I can't say whether I like it or not, and similarly, I have no idea why other people do or don't. From what some are saying, it's required reading in some American schools, so I guess that could negatively affect opinions, but beyond that...I have nada.
 
2014-06-03 01:35:11 PM  

Leonard Washington: I don't give a fark what they called people in the middle ages, you're not a doctor anymore. My dad is a doctor, nothing pissed me off more than some borderline competent to teach high school liberal arts professors insisting on me calling them doctors. You want to get called a doctor, get approved by the state to write a prescription.


Leonard Washington: You quit deserving to be called doctors the second someone else figured out how to help people better.


MDs write prescriptions for cures/treatments a team of PhDs spent decades developing.  Your MD didn't cure cancer, a whole crap load of PhDs did.

Do you also thank the waiter/waitress for the terrific job they personally did cooking your steak, while calling the chef in back a useless asshole?
 
2014-06-03 01:36:34 PM  
DROxINxTHExWIND:

Oh, I get it. Whatever you don't like is "low quality". That's pretty egotistical. And we thought Ms. Angelou had a big head.

I like plenty of stuff that's low-quality: Katy Perry, Taylor Swift.  Most of their stuff is fairly inoffensive and reasonably catchy.  I certainly wouldn't laud them the same way folks have lauded Maya Angelou.
 
2014-06-03 01:38:30 PM  

umad: CADMonkey79: stonicus: fireclown: FTFA:"To him and his ridiculousness, I say, "Oppenheimer, be for real." "

Well, the author does have her opponent firmly in the iron grip of logic.

The bottom line is pretty much if you don't actually earn a PhD or MD, you don't rate the honorific doctor.  An honorary doctorate means that the school really likes you, and that you are kinda awesome based on that, but it's not an official PhD/MD.  Angilou is wrong for calling herself Dr Angilou.

/go ahead.  I've been called racist by better looking people than YOU.

But in her field, she probably did more, wrote more, and knew more about poetry and literature than people who just sat in classes.  Her life experience shouldn't be discounted as if it didn't matter.  If it takes X number of hours learning literature to become a Doctor in it, and she has 10 times that amount from actually living it and doing it, then why shouldn't it count?

Unfortunately, many people assign more value to proving one's ability to sit in a classroom for years while someone else's opinions are crammed into their heads then regurgitating it all back out in some bullshiat thesis, than actual real life achievements many people demand that one prove one's ability to a neutral third party rather than just taking one's word that one is qualified.

I've been wiring houses for years! I don't need to take some useless tests to prove that I know what I am doing. You'll just have to take my word for it and hope like hell that your house doesn't burn down around you while you sleep.


Who knew poetry could kill?  So what was your electrical thesis statement about?
 
2014-06-03 01:39:03 PM  

lamecomedian: DROxINxTHExWIND:

Oh, I get it. Whatever you don't like is "low quality". That's pretty egotistical. And we thought Ms. Angelou had a big head.

I like plenty of stuff that's low-quality: Katy Perry, Taylor Swift.  Most of their stuff is fairly inoffensive and reasonably catchy.  I certainly wouldn't laud them the same way folks have lauded Maya Angelou.


So again, your beef is that people aren't doing things the way that you think they should. You have a right to like Katy Perry but its stupid for someone else to like Maya Angelou. What else do you think we should stop liking?
 
2014-06-03 01:40:16 PM  

lennavan: Leonard Washington: I don't give a fark what they called people in the middle ages, you're not a doctor anymore. My dad is a doctor, nothing pissed me off more than some borderline competent to teach high school liberal arts professors insisting on me calling them doctors. You want to get called a doctor, get approved by the state to write a prescription.

Leonard Washington: You quit deserving to be called doctors the second someone else figured out how to help people better.

MDs write prescriptions for cures/treatments a team of PhDs spent decades developing.  Your MD didn't cure cancer, a whole crap load of PhDs did.

Do you also thank the waiter/waitress for the terrific job they personally did cooking your steak, while calling the chef in back a useless asshole?


Ohsnap.jpg
 
2014-06-03 01:40:57 PM  

Kope: CADMonkey79: Sybarite: Every use of Dr. before you're name when you are not an M.D. is pretentious.

THIS!

Given that MD's appropriated the title from PhDs, Why do you preference them?
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_%28title%29#Origins


Because I don't live in Medieval Europe I suppose.
 
2014-06-03 01:41:21 PM  

CADMonkey79: kindms: stonicus: fireclown: FTFA:"To him and his ridiculousness, I say, "Oppenheimer, be for real." "

Well, the author does have her opponent firmly in the iron grip of logic.

The bottom line is pretty much if you don't actually earn a PhD or MD, you don't rate the honorific doctor.  An honorary doctorate means that the school really likes you, and that you are kinda awesome based on that, but it's not an official PhD/MD.  Angilou is wrong for calling herself Dr Angilou.

/go ahead.  I've been called racist by better looking people than YOU.

But in her field, she probably did more, wrote more, and knew more about poetry and literature than people who just sat in classes.  Her life experience shouldn't be discounted as if it didn't matter.  If it takes X number of hours learning literature to become a Doctor in it, and she has 10 times that amount from actually living it and doing it, then why shouldn't it count?

I have been working in IT for over 15 years. That doesn't make me a network engineer. It is a title given to people who have put in the academic hours and course study. She wasn't a PhD. She had more than enough time to get one. And it probably wouldn't have been all that difficult for her but she didn't put in the work to obtain the PhD. As such she should not have called herself Doctor no matter how much the woman at Salon wants to try to justify it. So Angelou was a jerk about certain things, like being called Dr when she wasn't one. Lots of artists are jerks, doesn't reduce the importance of their art.

Why wouldn't you be able to call yourself that ? With that much experience are you not allowed to get the same certificates?  I'm still trying to figure out why more actual architects and licensed engineers don't take more exception to any IT people calling themselves network "engineers" or "architects".


A lot... and I mean a LOT of what passes for expertise in the humanities is bluffing.  I've seen it up close, unfortunately.  One "big thinker" by the name of Baudrillard actually committed to print his belief that Walt Disney was in cryo-freeze somewhere... and one of my professors, in class, admitted to the same belief.

It was at exactly that point that I began to have my doubts about the humanities as a field.

Now there are a lot of very knowledgeable, very expert folks who really DO know there stuff, but so much of the current discourse is shaky and rests on a very selective view of the relevant facts... well, it's not a great field for intellectual integrity, let me tell you.

Anyway, if you're a big-shot poet celebrity you don't put yourself under the authority of some exam committee - you're already "made" it, so you have everything to lose and nothing to gain by being subjected to that kind of scrutiny.
 
2014-06-03 01:42:31 PM  

lamecomedian: DROxINxTHExWIND: farkeruk: ikanreed: And here's the evidence of racism.  Maya Angelou's accomplishments reduced to "greeting cards".  That's why we know.  It's not the details of the tradition, it's how how far out of your way you go to minimize the accomplishments of any black woman.

I've read some of Maya Angelou's poems, and I think Hallmark would send them back. They're terrible. Clunkingly terrible. And she got away with it for her whole life because of people like you - people who would call someone a racist or sexist as soon as anyone criticised them.


Oh, so people bought and studied the writing of this one black woman because they were scared of being labelled racist? Well, how noble of you to be the first to fall on the sword for all of the wrongfully accused who WOULD stand up against this woman's tyranny if not for the protection given to her by guilty whites and blacks who play the race card.

Lots of people buy Justin Bieber's music, too.  Popularity is not an indication of quality.


Actually, you could make a case it's the only indication of quality.  Quality is subjective.  Except in a few gases of science, specifically geology where they rigidly define what quality means in terms of a mineral or gemstone.  But in the arts, it is totally subjective.  Popularity isn't a measure of some traits, like complexity.  The Star Wars Theme by John Williams is vastly more complex than When I Come Around by Green Day, but if more people like Green Day, then you could argue it is a more quality song.
 
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