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(LA Times)   Detroit's bankruptcy managers looking to sell city's entire art collection. Because if there's a city whose civic leaders have unequivocally proven they can responsibly manage a nearly $1 billion windfall, it's Detroit   (latimes.com) divider line 68
    More: Fail, DIA, gallery, art collections, Michigan Legislature, creditors  
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3335 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Jun 2014 at 4:45 PM (29 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-02 04:20:23 PM  
Wow subby you could not be more wrong. Even the headline of the article points out that it is the city's creditors that want the art sold, not the bankruptcy managers or the Mayor or the state appointed Emergency Financial Manager. The management of the city of Detroit has been doing everything it can to keep the DIA collection intact.

But I get it, it's funny to shiat on Detroit because Hey it's Detroit, who the fark cares?
 
2014-06-02 04:47:09 PM  
I know some people who could have some fun with this:

www.strangecosmos.com
 
2014-06-02 04:47:16 PM  
I thought they couldnt sell most of it anyway, even if they wanted to since it was donated.
 
2014-06-02 04:49:17 PM  

cgraves67: I know some people who could have some fun with this:

[www.strangecosmos.com image 600x426]


I'd kind of like to see someone buy it and re-set it so that it appears to be bursting out of the ground.
 
2014-06-02 04:49:40 PM  
Wait, I thought President Obama said he wouldn't let Detroit go bankrupt?
 
2014-06-02 04:50:08 PM  
Hopefully this is enough money to finish the Robocop project.
 
2014-06-02 04:50:18 PM  
Is this a repeat or is someone else trying to sell Detroits art collection?

I seem to remember some art society / charity dealie paying to keep the stuff from being sold awhile ago.

/dealie
 
2014-06-02 04:50:40 PM  

NuttierThanEver: Wow subby you could not be more wrong. Even the headline of the article points out that it is the city's creditors that want the art sold, not the bankruptcy managers or the Mayor or the state appointed Emergency Financial Manager. The management of the city of Detroit has been doing everything it can to keep the DIA collection intact.

But I get it, it's funny to shiat on Detroit because Hey it's Detroit, who the fark cares?


I'm typing this about 4 miles from the border of Detroit. While you were correct in your takedown of Subby's reading comprehension, I have to say that I mostly agree with the "Hey it's Detroit, who the fark cares?" part.

You would have to look long and hard to find a city that fought harder for its own marginalization and 3rd world status than Detroit.

F#ck Detroit.
 
2014-06-02 04:50:45 PM  

groppet: I thought they couldnt sell most of it anyway, even if they wanted to since it was donated.


The creditors seem to be pushing for that small detail to be overlooked.
 
2014-06-02 04:51:15 PM  
Isn't the problem that Detroit owns the collection directly instead of through a nonprofit or some kind of setup that would have legally protected the art from exactly this situation?
 
2014-06-02 04:52:58 PM  

cgraves67: I know some people who could have some fun with this:

[www.strangecosmos.com image 600x426]


That's odd, I thought Caligula always wore a ring.
 
2014-06-02 04:55:17 PM  

Barricaded Gunman: NuttierThanEver: Wow subby you could not be more wrong. Even the headline of the article points out that it is the city's creditors that want the art sold, not the bankruptcy managers or the Mayor or the state appointed Emergency Financial Manager. The management of the city of Detroit has been doing everything it can to keep the DIA collection intact.

But I get it, it's funny to shiat on Detroit because Hey it's Detroit, who the fark cares?

I'm typing this about 4 miles from the border of Detroit. While you were correct in your takedown of Subby's reading comprehension, I have to say that I mostly agree with the "Hey it's Detroit, who the fark cares?" part.

You would have to look long and hard to find a city that fought harder for its own marginalization and 3rd world status than Detroit.

F#ck Detroit.


Racist.
 
2014-06-02 04:55:40 PM  

NuttierThanEver: Wow subby you could not be more wrong. Even the headline of the article points out that it is the city's creditors that want the art sold, not the bankruptcy managers or the Mayor or the state appointed Emergency Financial Manager. The management of the city of Detroit has been doing everything it can to keep the DIA collection intact.

But I get it, it's funny to shiat on Detroit because Hey it's Detroit, who the fark cares?


Indeed.

It'd be a shame if all, or even some, of the works in the public museums of Detroit ended up in private hands; never to be seen again.

Even if they did sell them all; Detroit would get pennies on the dollar. Just because something is appraised at $2 million doesn't guarantee that they'll get $2 million. They might get $3 million or, more probably, $1 million. Then there's the tax bill to consider. I'm not sure how it affects cities; but, a regular civilian would be expected to pay taxes on a sale that large. Not only that; but, then the city completely loses the option to leverage those works and assets in the future.

/ selling all of Detroit's treasures isn't the answer. Responsible money management and an increase in industry or population would help; but, I fear that Detroit is doomed to die.
 
2014-06-02 04:56:52 PM  

To The Escape Zeppelin!: Isn't the problem that Detroit owns the collection directly instead of through a nonprofit or some kind of setup that would have legally protected the art from exactly this situation?



I may be wrong, but I thought I read some where that they were arguing that Detroit only held the collection in trust that that it did not actually belong to the city but to the State of Michigan.  If that is established as the case, then the creditors won't have a leg to stand on.
 
2014-06-02 04:57:00 PM  
Better than letting them end up with the mongol hordes
 
2014-06-02 04:57:21 PM  

cgraves67: I know some people who could have some fun with this:


Wasn't that at the Hedonism Bot's last orgy?
 
2014-06-02 04:59:35 PM  

iheartscotch: NuttierThanEver: Wow subby you could not be more wrong. Even the headline of the article points out that it is the city's creditors that want the art sold, not the bankruptcy managers or the Mayor or the state appointed Emergency Financial Manager. The management of the city of Detroit has been doing everything it can to keep the DIA collection intact.

But I get it, it's funny to shiat on Detroit because Hey it's Detroit, who the fark cares?

Indeed.

It'd be a shame if all, or even some, of the works in the public museums of Detroit ended up in private hands; never to be seen again.

Even if they did sell them all; Detroit would get pennies on the dollar. Just because something is appraised at $2 million doesn't guarantee that they'll get $2 million. They might get $3 million or, more probably, $1 million. Then there's the tax bill to consider. I'm not sure how it affects cities; but, a regular civilian would be expected to pay taxes on a sale that large. Not only that; but, then the city completely loses the option to leverage those works and assets in the future.

/ selling all of Detroit's treasures isn't the answer. Responsible money management and an increase in industry or population would help; but, I fear that Detroit is doomed to die.


Indeed. The DIA is one of the reasons to visit Detroit. Losing that would be a huge blow to the city.
 
2014-06-02 05:00:39 PM  

groppet: I thought they couldnt sell most of it anyway, even if they wanted to since it was donated.


Exactly.

I'm surprised those that have donated haven't asked for it back.
 
2014-06-02 05:01:24 PM  

cgraves67: I know some people who could have some fun with this:

[www.strangecosmos.com image 600x426]


There's nothing like a nice romantic fisting.
 
2014-06-02 05:03:18 PM  
 
2014-06-02 05:05:31 PM  
 
2014-06-02 05:05:43 PM  

cgraves67: I know some people who could have some fun with this:

[www.strangecosmos.com image 600x426]


thebestofdetroit.com
 
2014-06-02 05:07:51 PM  
Hey, if you're broke you sell the family silver.
 
2014-06-02 05:09:24 PM  
Detroit Institute of Art: brought to you by Omni Consumer Products
 
2014-06-02 05:11:25 PM  

KatjaMouse: cgraves67: I know some people who could have some fun with this:

[www.strangecosmos.com image 600x426]

[thebestofdetroit.com image 620x826]


heh. reminds me of when someone did this to Denver's blue bear sculpture:
blogs.westword.com
 
2014-06-02 05:25:36 PM  
Go ahead, the art collection will probably be more susceptible to average peoples hands a hundred years from now, if they sell it to private collectors, if it's not rotting in a museum owned and operated by Detroit over the next decade.  I can see the roof collapsing, and the city not having the money to repair the damage, or relocate the art at this point.
 
2014-06-02 05:34:12 PM  

Some Coke Drinking Guy: Go ahead, the art collection will probably be more susceptible to average peoples hands a hundred years from now, if they sell it to private collectors, if it's not rotting in a museum owned and operated by Detroit over the next decade.  I can see the roof collapsing, and the city not having the money to repair the damage, or relocate the art at this point.


The region passed a tax increase a couple years ago to fully fund the museum.  Even Oakland and Macomb Counties, amazingly enough.  That shouldn't be a problem.
 
2014-06-02 05:35:13 PM  
With $1 billion, they could renovate 2000 homes and sell them for $200 million!
 
2014-06-02 05:35:38 PM  

CujoQuarrel: Hey, if you're broke you sell the family silver.


Except the art collection is one of Detroits few revenue generators, so it's more like a broke plumber selling his wrenches.
 
2014-06-02 05:35:51 PM  

NuttierThanEver: Wow subby you could not be more wrong. Even the headline of the article points out that it is the city's creditors that want the art sold, not the bankruptcy managers or the Mayor or the state appointed Emergency Financial Manager. The management of the city of Detroit has been doing everything it can to keep the DIA collection intact.

But I get it, it's funny to shiat on Detroit because Hey it's Detroit, who the fark cares?


And even if the bankruptcy managers wanted it sold it's not as if the money would end up with Detroit's "civic leaders", whatever that means. Subby doesn't seem to understand how bankruptcy works.
 
2014-06-02 05:39:36 PM  
They should just raise more taxes. That'll fix it. Stick it to the rich assholes who exploited the city for decades.
 
2014-06-02 05:42:00 PM  
www.aaanything.net
 
2014-06-02 05:43:51 PM  

Hydra: They should just raise more taxes. That'll fix it. Stick it to the rich assholes who exploited the city for decades.


Or, the rich assholes will just move away from Detroit and Detroit will lose more money. Either, or.
 
2014-06-02 05:49:01 PM  

groppet: I thought they couldnt sell most of it anyway, even if they wanted to since it was donated.


Donated doesn't mean loaned.
 
2014-06-02 05:50:56 PM  

iheartscotch: Or, the rich assholes will just move away from Detroit and Detroit will lose more money. Either, or.


Maybe we could keep them from leaving.  We could put them in camps.  You know what would do them some good?  We could make them work.
 
2014-06-02 05:52:53 PM  
Subby's blatant lack of reading comprehension aside this is such a non-story. The DIA isn't going to be touched, the local press has been fetishiizing over its sale for  the past 2 years now.
 
2014-06-02 06:01:17 PM  
If the city owns the artwork then the sales won't generate any tax revenue.  The city will gain whatever cash it gets from the sale and nothing else.  Arguably the biggest draw to the DIA is the building itself - the Diego Rivera murals.  This is one of the more idiotic ideas I've seen.  It's happening purely to appease the anti-government morans in central and west Michigan who use logic like"Hey if I have to balance my checkbook so does the gubment!".  They think that if Detroit is broke it should have to sell the artwork in the DIA as some sort of moral punishment for being poor.
 
2014-06-02 06:03:04 PM  

iheartscotch: Or, the rich assholes will just move away from Detroit and Detroit will lose more money. Either, or.


Sounds like we need to start charging them exit taxes, then. If your household wealth is more than $100K and you sell your house or change your address outside of the city, you should pay a wealth tax of 20% based on the market value of your assets. The city of Detroit gave you enough already, richer - time to start giving back.
 
2014-06-02 06:05:10 PM  

cgraves67: I know some people who could have some fun with this:

[www.strangecosmos.com image 600x426]


Five in the poo
 
2014-06-02 06:09:01 PM  
They could lease everything. It's what the auto companies seem to be doing. They lease most of their equipment, lease most of their cars, and hope the payments balance favorably.
 
2014-06-02 06:10:01 PM  
Speaking of Detroit, this week's episode of American Greed will tell the story of Kwame Kilpatrick, Detroit's former Mayor who is now serving a 28 year sentence in prison.
 
2014-06-02 06:15:28 PM  

paygun: iheartscotch: Or, the rich assholes will just move away from Detroit and Detroit will lose more money. Either, or.

Maybe we could keep them from leaving.  We could put them in camps.  You know what would do them some good?  We could make them work.


Yessss. We could call the camps concentration camps....

Sounds like a Fine Ol' Solution to the rich people problem....
 
2014-06-02 06:22:09 PM  
As a Toledoan, I think the hate on Detroit is, of course, based on "herp, derp, Democrats" without actually looking at the actual systemic issues with the city. But, you know, stick it to the Libs above all else, even if it's not a partisan issue.
 
2014-06-02 06:23:32 PM  

Hydra: iheartscotch: Or, the rich assholes will just move away from Detroit and Detroit will lose more money. Either, or.

Sounds like we need to start charging them exit taxes, then. If your household wealth is more than $100K and you sell your house or change your address outside of the city, you should pay a wealth tax of 20% based on the market value of your assets. The city of Detroit gave you enough already, richer - time to start giving back.


As my paternal grandfather used to say; "Don't use a bulldozer when a trowel will do."

Such fees would, probably, be unconstitutional. Plus, these are politicians we're talking about. A better solution would be to make Detroit more attractive to those with greater means. That way, more rich people move to Detroit and pay more taxes there. Another solution may be to incentivize businesses and corporations to move back or expand to Detroit; thus, creating more jobs and widening the tax base.
 
2014-06-02 06:26:07 PM  

iheartscotch: NuttierThanEver: Wow subby you could not be more wrong. Even the headline of the article points out that it is the city's creditors that want the art sold, not the bankruptcy managers or the Mayor or the state appointed Emergency Financial Manager. The management of the city of Detroit has been doing everything it can to keep the DIA collection intact.

But I get it, it's funny to shiat on Detroit because Hey it's Detroit, who the fark cares?

Indeed.

It'd be a shame if all, or even some, of the works in the public museums of Detroit ended up in private hands; never to be seen again.

Even if they did sell them all; Detroit would get pennies on the dollar. Just because something is appraised at $2 million doesn't guarantee that they'll get $2 million. They might get $3 million or, more probably, $1 million. Then there's the tax bill to consider. I'm not sure how it affects cities; but, a regular civilian would be expected to pay taxes on a sale that large. Not only that; but, then the city completely loses the option to leverage those works and assets in the future.

/ selling all of Detroit's treasures isn't the answer. Responsible money management and an increase in industry or population would help; but, I fear that Detroit is doomed to die.


And therein lies the problem. Because of the 'fark Detroit' attitude and the stupid jokes that get parroted by retards whenever Detroit is mentioned, every single person on the planet has now heard to Detroit, and not in a good way. No one will move there, no business will locate there. Both people who've never been within 1000 miles of the place and people who once lived nearby but got out feel that whenever Detroit comes up, they must put in their two cents about how Detroit is a post-apocalyptic wasteland, America's Baghdad, Robocop, etc. It's like saying 'this city and it's people are really struggling. I'm going to help destroy what's left whenever the opportunity presents itself.' Good job curb-stomping an entire city when it's already down.

What boggles the mind even more is the racist-as-fark suburban assmunchers who are more 'fark Detroit' than anyone else. Despite it's problems, it is still the economic cornerstone of the region. Half of those farkers even work somewhere in the city. I laugh at people like Patterson who's trying his best to kill all the deals with his 'fark em' attitude when his county's economy is inexorably tied to Detroit.

But keep making the Robocop jokes if it makes you feel funny.

/Not directed at you two
 
2014-06-02 06:34:10 PM  
The whole world is watching the one city in the entire farking world that had more to do with keeping the world free just rot away.

We should have just bombed every European capital flat, killing any Nazis in there. Then just let the Europeans and Japanese rebuild into permanent slums sprinkled amongst absolute destruction. Just like Detroit.

I'd rather our country be known as Surrender Monkeys II than watch the world expect us to fight their wars for them, on our dime and our blood.

/at least the Asians got what they wanted eventually...France, the UK, Belgium and the US the fark out of Asia. It's a shame it took killing FDR, Pearl Harbor and the terrible US losses in the Pacific campaign to do it.
 
2014-06-02 06:47:14 PM  
Prediction: the collection will be sold for a fraction of what of what it's worth, and people will be shocked, shocked how it all turned out.

Reasons:

There's a huge gap between valuation and what people will pay. Value represents replacement cost, not market demand. It all comes down to what collectors at the time of sale are looking to add to their collection.

The creditors will higher someone to sell the art for them who will take a huge cut.

Supply/demand: if you flood the market you're going to push prices down -- suddenly everything is a bit less rare.

My only point is that whatever the creditors say the collection is worth, they'll be lucky to get half that number.
 
2014-06-02 06:55:23 PM  

trotsky: As a Toledoan, I think the hate on Detroit is, of course, based on "herp, derp, Democrats" without actually looking at the actual systemic issues with the city. But, you know, stick it to the Libs above all else, even if it's not a partisan issue.


Pretty much this.

I grew up in Allen Park and Lincoln Park. I came back recently to visit my family who still live out in the burbs (Dearborn and Westland) and the area is pretty shiatty, but mostly the problem is just that there aren't any jobs to be had other than minimum wage shiat jobs. You can't sustain a population as big as that area without some decent middle class jobs and there just aren't any to be had.

My point being that it doesn't matter who is running the city and it hasn't mattered for the last 20 or so years (at least since I was a young man, or maybe even further back). The city has been collapsing because of the lack of jobs in the region, hell in the entire state to be honest. Michigan as a state has been undergoing a massive economic decline for as long as I've been alive. It's not good government that's going to fix anything, or good government that could have prevented this - the economic base of that entire region has changed dramatically in the last half century and nothing has replaced it yet.
 
2014-06-02 07:01:32 PM  

NuttierThanEver: Wow subby you could not be more wrong. Even the headline of the article points out that it is the city's creditors that want the art sold, not the bankruptcy managers or the Mayor or the state appointed Emergency Financial Manager. The management of the city of Detroit has been doing everything it can to keep the DIA collection intact.

But I get it, it's funny to shiat on Detroit because Hey it's Detroit, who the fark cares?


Nobody who matters.

/Love most of the rest of the state.  Fark Detroit.
 
2014-06-02 07:03:43 PM  

Mithiwithi: CujoQuarrel: Hey, if you're broke you sell the family silver.

Except the art collection is one of Detroits few revenue generators, so it's more like a broke plumber selling his wrenches.



Yeah, I've never been to Detroit, but that collection might be the major reason I'd go. If sold off, lots of the art will disappear into the private collections of global 1%ers for at least a generation or two,.
 
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