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(PC Magazine)   Space-X founder, on the unveiling of their latest spacecraft "admitted that when Space-X originally set out to build Dragon version 1, it didn't exactly know how to design a spacecraft." Uh, thanks for telling us now   (pcmag.com) divider line 58
    More: Cool, Dragon V2, SpaceX, dragons, Elon Musk, heat shields, propulsion systems, spacecrafts, International Space Station  
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1214 clicks; posted to Geek » on 02 Jun 2014 at 1:11 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-02 11:50:25 AM  
How hard can it be?  Pointy end in front, as much mass as possible as fast as possible out the back.  Try not to run out of mass before you're done.
 
2014-06-02 12:01:52 PM  
"Research" is what you're doing when you don't know what you're doing.
 
2014-06-02 12:06:54 PM  
One could say the same thing about NASA.
 
2014-06-02 12:26:15 PM  
GM, Ford and Toyota are still getting the hang of designing cars after many decades, so I think Space-X
is actually doing very well.
 
2014-06-02 12:30:04 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: "Research" is what you're doing when you don't know what you're doing.


This

Benevolent Misanthrope: One could say the same thing about NASA.


I'm currently in the last third of Apollo.  Certainly this too.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-06-02 12:50:14 PM  
Sometimes that's an advantage because you aren't hindered by the traditional way of doing things.
 
2014-06-02 01:14:04 PM  

vpb: Sometimes that's an advantage because you aren't hindered by the traditional way of doing things.


Exactly what I came to say. When you aren't bound by established ways of solving problems, you're free to try different, and often better ones.
 
2014-06-02 01:17:08 PM  
Hey, Andy Griffith did it back in 1979 using and old cement mixer as the command module.

republibot.com
 
2014-06-02 01:17:50 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: One could say the same thing about NASA.


Most of my professor worked at NASA at one point and time, and they would tell you that you aren't that far off from reality.
 
2014-06-02 01:17:54 PM  

Sliding Carp: How hard can it be?  Pointy end in front, as much mass as possible as fast as possible out the back.  Try not to run out of mass before you're done.



i.imgur.com

And struts. Many, many struts. The moment you think have enough struts, add more struts.
 
2014-06-02 01:23:26 PM  

Snapper Carr: Sliding Carp: How hard can it be?  Pointy end in front, as much mass as possible as fast as possible out the back.  Try not to run out of mass before you're done.


[i.imgur.com image 850x476]

And struts. Many, many struts. The moment you think have enough struts, add more struts.


So, what was your framerate...1?
 
2014-06-02 01:26:17 PM  

spcMike: Benevolent Misanthrope: One could say the same thing about NASA.

Most of my professor worked at NASA at one point and time, and they would tell you that you aren't that far off from reality.


Didn't they had to hire all those German scientists who worked on the V-2 project because the Americans had no clue WTF they were doing?
 
2014-06-02 01:26:26 PM  
Unless the first 3 of these blow up or disintegrate on reentry I have a feeling Musk is going down in history as a Ford/Edison type of figure - yeah the ideas arent all his but I think he's been an very important kick in the ass to both the auto and space industries.
 
2014-06-02 01:29:56 PM  

Eps05: Didn't they had to hire all those German scientists who worked on the V-2 project because the Americans had no clue WTF they were doing?


I thought it was more about keeping them from selling their talent to the Russians?
 
2014-06-02 01:34:30 PM  
I used to have a copy of Chariots For Apollo, a NASA history book published in the 70s. Sold it to someone in Florida years ago, seems like essential reading for anyone building space craft.
 
2014-06-02 01:35:33 PM  

Satan's Superfluous Nipple: Snapper Carr: Sliding Carp: How hard can it be?  Pointy end in front, as much mass as possible as fast as possible out the back.  Try not to run out of mass before you're done.


[i.imgur.com image 850x476]

And struts. Many, many struts. The moment you think have enough struts, add more struts.

So, what was your framerate...1?


I think Squad was sending the frames to him via snail mail.

As far as the Dragon goes, for "not knowing what they were doing", they docked with ISS a bunch of times, so there's that.  Also, SpaceX poached a bunch of people from the Shuttle program, and those guys know exactly what the fark they're doing.
 
2014-06-02 01:43:16 PM  
My generation of engineers (Gen X) have never gotten to build a spacecraft (aka pressurized for people with ECLSS, etc, etc).

So none of us know how to do it.

But we are learning.
 
2014-06-02 01:49:29 PM  

maniacbastard: My generation of engineers (Gen X) have never gotten to build a spacecraft (aka pressurized for people with ECLSS, etc, etc).

So none of us know how to do it.

But we are learning.


It's not that hard. It's not rocket science.
 
2014-06-02 02:17:18 PM  

maniacbastard: My generation of engineers (Gen X) have never gotten to build a spacecraft (aka pressurized for people with ECLSS, etc, etc).

So none of us know how to do it.

But we are learning.


How different from building a concert-hall or say a dance studio can it be really?

i.imgur.com
 
2014-06-02 02:20:02 PM  
And then there's Copenhagen Suborbitals
which is sort of what Space-X would be without any money at all.  They've been trying to put a person into suborbital flight for quite a while, working with donations.

I especially like them because one of their support ships is a home-made submarine.
 
2014-06-02 02:26:00 PM  
Comic Book Guy:  Also, SpaceX poached a bunch of people from the Shuttle program, and those guys know exactly what the fark they're doing.

Well, with the exception of those two times...
 
2014-06-02 02:29:13 PM  

moike: Comic Book Guy:  Also, SpaceX poached a bunch of people from the Shuttle program, and those guys know exactly what the fark they're doing.

Well, with the exception of those two times...


You mean the two times that the engineers floated concerns up the management chain, and were ignored because of the bean counters and politicos?
 
2014-06-02 02:31:21 PM  

Snapper Carr: And struts. Many, many struts. The moment you think have enough struts, add more struts.


i.imgur.com
All the struts.
 
2014-06-02 02:34:27 PM  
i.imgur.com
/+5 points if you identify the things on the outside of the boosters
//+10 points if you can guess what all the docking ports are for
///+15 points if you can guess the mission
 
2014-06-02 02:35:18 PM  
100 lbs of thrust to 16000 lbs of thrust?

Yeah, that's quite a jump!
 
2014-06-02 02:38:02 PM  

Lord Ezekiel: moike: Comic Book Guy:  Also, SpaceX poached a bunch of people from the Shuttle program, and those guys know exactly what the fark they're doing.

Well, with the exception of those two times...

You mean the two times that the engineers floated concerns up the management chain, and were ignored because of the bean counters and politicos?


Yes
 
2014-06-02 02:41:21 PM  

Cpl.D: [i.imgur.com image 850x531]
/+5 points if you identify the things on the outside of the boosters
//+10 points if you can guess what all the docking ports are for
///+15 points if you can guess the mission


Looks like Probe Cores on small fuel tanks and engines for either cancelling out excessive spin or for boosting those rockets away from the center when they are depleted?

Docking ports...hmmm, I can only imagine some sort of crazy contraption that is being assembled in orbit...unless they are a sort of landing skid?

No idea on the mission tho.
 
2014-06-02 02:45:24 PM  
Chalji: answers

You have five points.  Answer one is custom made separatrons.
 
2014-06-02 02:46:09 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2014-06-02 02:46:26 PM  

Comic Book Guy: SpaceX poached a bunch of people from the Shuttle program, and those guys know exactly what the fark they're doing.


Well Shuttle lost 2 of it's 5 Shuttles...so...
 
2014-06-02 02:58:48 PM  
SpaceX is what you get when engineers are free to do their job without interference from goddam politicians and middle management weenies. The more detail I get to see of their designs, the more I love their combination of common sense and innovation. Just seeing their parachute system arrangement was enough to convince me they know how to optimize.

You want to solve teh global warmz? Get the goddam politicians and corporate management assholes outta the way. Same goes for ANY technological problem afflicting us.
 
2014-06-02 03:11:04 PM  

mark12A: SpaceX is what you get when engineers are free to do their job without interference from goddam politicians and middle management weenies. The more detail I get to see of their designs, the more I love their combination of common sense and innovation. Just seeing their parachute system arrangement was enough to convince me they know how to optimize.

You want to solve teh global warmz? Get the goddam politicians and corporate management assholes outta the way. Same goes for ANY technological problem afflicting us.


The answer to global warming is precisely that - you stick a tax on producing CO2 (already calculated by Lord Stern's committee) and let the market work things out from there.
 
2014-06-02 03:20:51 PM  

Angela Lansbury's Merkin: Eps05: Didn't they had to hire all those German scientists who worked on the V-2 project because the Americans had no clue WTF they were doing?

I thought it was more about keeping them from selling their talent to the Russians?


img.fark.net
 
2014-06-02 03:28:23 PM  

Cpl.D: [i.imgur.com image 850x531]


That is even more insane than anything my short tenure with that game could ever cook up.
 
2014-06-02 03:34:16 PM  

Cpl.D: [i.imgur.com image 850x531]


You have me stumped...I was thinking that perhaps your target is Laythe and that those huge rockets double as booms or some sort of flotation device. But I can't figure out what the purpose of the docking ports are.
 
2014-06-02 03:38:29 PM  

scanman61: 100 lbs of thrust to 16000 lbs of thrust?

Yeah, that's quite a jump!


At first, I thought they had misplaced a decimal point until I realized they needed 16,000 lbs to have the soft earth landing they are trying for.
 
2014-06-02 03:44:30 PM  

mark12A: SpaceX is what you get when engineers are free to do their job without interference from goddam politicians and middle management weenies.


I've always wanted to see the designs for the Shuttle from before the USAF stuck their noses into it and demanded it could be used as a weapons delivery system.
 
2014-06-02 03:53:29 PM  
Ok, gonna spoil my own game because ADHD and my attention is demanded elsewhere.

The docking ports are where the legs bolt on.  I'm landing it on the Mun when it's fully assembled.  There will be additional sections bolting on top as well.

Here's a mock-up of it on the ground with legs attached.

i.imgur.com

So the answer is, it is a Munar lander.
 
2014-06-02 04:13:15 PM  
Subby, that's fairly common in business startups. You pitch, get funding, hire people, and deliver successfully. If everything goes right, mostly in that order. Which means when you pitch, you have no capability to deliver. The funders know that. That's why you need the money. To hire the people that help you deliver.
 
2014-06-02 04:37:50 PM  
Has he hired any surfers yet? The Apollo program ended up hiring a few surfers when the engineers discovered they had no idea how to get the insulation around the curved surface of the tanks on the first stage. Turns out surfers were working with a very similar material in building their surf boards and had no problem putting the insulation on the tanks. As long as the surf wasn't up.
 
2014-06-02 04:38:38 PM  

StopLurkListen: Subby, that's fairly common in business startups. You pitch, get funding, hire people, and deliver successfully. If everything goes right, mostly in that order. Which means when you pitch, you have no capability to deliver. The funders know that. That's why you need the money. To hire the people that help you deliver.



ohhh, that was Step 2...

1) collect underpants

2) pitch, get funding, hire people, and deliver successfully

3) profit
 
2014-06-02 05:08:56 PM  

Eps05: spcMike: Benevolent Misanthrope: One could say the same thing about NASA.

Most of my professor worked at NASA at one point and time, and they would tell you that you aren't that far off from reality.

Didn't they had to hire all those German scientists who worked on the V-2 project because the Americans had no clue WTF they were doing?


I don't think it was so much that they had to hire them, we could have figured it out eventually, but we really wanted to be those damn Russians in the space race so we brought in some outside help.

Also, as someone already mentioned, if we hadn't hired them the Russians surely would have.
 
2014-06-02 05:22:46 PM  

clovis69: Comic Book Guy: SpaceX poached a bunch of people from the Shuttle program, and those guys know exactly what the fark they're doing.

Well Shuttle lost 2 of it's 5 Shuttles...so...




To be fair, the shuttle was designed by bureaucrats.

/it was a terrible, terrible, vehicle.
/seven shuttles.
/Columbia, challenger, Atlantis, endeavour, discovery, enterprise, pathfinder.
 
2014-06-02 06:41:15 PM  
NASA didn't know how to make a spacecraft when they got started either.

They still went to the Mun.

/yeah the Shuttle sucked and pretty much killed NASA as we knew them.  A billion dollars per flight, not including payload.  Youch.
 
2014-06-02 06:43:26 PM  

JayCab: I've always wanted to see the designs for the Shuttle from before the USAF stuck their noses into it and demanded it could be used as a weapons delivery system.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Dragon_(rocket)
 
2014-06-02 07:10:16 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: One could say the same thing about NASA.


One could, and probably should.

/came here to say this.
 
2014-06-02 07:40:46 PM  
Hey submittard, if you listen for three more seconds, you'll find out that because of that they used well established design principles for the first one.
 
2014-06-02 08:06:27 PM  
Imagine the drawback when they lose their first crew.  :(
 
2014-06-02 08:09:33 PM  
www.taggcleanhands.com

Kerbal Thread?

I don't often get as excessive as some do. Still you have your occasional moments when you just need a few more delta-v, then strapping on more boosters is, like real life, a viable tactic.

Or you just want to see how fast or high you can go in the atmosphere using nothing bur SRBs. Thus the screenshot.
 
2014-06-02 10:32:50 PM  
It isn't "NASA", but more properly "NAFA".

Need Another Fourteen Astronauts.
 
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