Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Wired)   Study finds when people were able to buy their drugs off Silk Road, drug-related violence plummeted. "The virtual location and anonymity that the cryptomarket provides reduced or eliminated the need - or even the ability - to resort to violence"   (wired.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Silk Road  
•       •       •

1292 clicks; posted to Business » on 02 Jun 2014 at 9:02 AM (1 year ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



49 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2014-06-02 08:40:45 AM  
Because people with the money to buy drugs, have a stable address, and have access to the internet are the people that cause drug related violence.
 
2014-06-02 08:44:12 AM  

WTF Indeed: Because people with the money to buy drugs, have a stable address, and have access to the internet are the people that cause drug related violence.


It appears that way.
 
2014-06-02 08:47:45 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: WTF Indeed: Because people with the money to buy drugs, have a stable address, and have access to the internet are the people that cause drug related violence.

It appears that way.


So a drastic drop in white kids getting mugged in the ghetto, however still no change in murders of kids and robberies in the ghetto.
 
2014-06-02 09:00:12 AM  

WTF Indeed: in the ghetto.


eil.com
 
2014-06-02 09:24:02 AM  
What prevented dealers from not delivering? Just reputation?
 
2014-06-02 09:26:49 AM  
The vast majority of the harm caused by drugs is caused by the fact that they are illegal.  It gives them a value they otherwise would not posses, which inspires criminal behavior.
 
2014-06-02 09:30:07 AM  
Well, other than the Dread Pirate Roberts putting out hits on people...otherwise, prohibition is the reason that the violence from the drug trade exists.
 
2014-06-02 09:34:29 AM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: The vast majority of the harm caused by drugs is caused by the fact that they are illegal.  It gives them a value they otherwise would not posses, which inspires criminal behavior.


High society.
 
2014-06-02 09:40:46 AM  

WTF Indeed: Because people with the money to buy drugs, have a stable address, and have access to the internet are the people that cause drug related violence.


No, but the drug dealers that sell to them do cause violence.  This is pretty simple stuff, if you take the drug dealing off the streets, whether you make it legal or move the market place online, then poor kids won't kill each other to control drug turf.  The main thing drug prohibition does is enrich drug dealers and encourage violence. Well as enrich and empower police and prosecutors and erode our civil liberties. It would be a better use of public funds just to pay millions to the drug cartels not to kill people
 
2014-06-02 09:42:57 AM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: The vast majority of the harm caused by drugs is caused by the fact that they are illegal.  It gives them a value they otherwise would not posses, which inspires criminal behavior.


While I totally agree with what you are saying, I do often wonder what would happen if drugs were legal and easily accessible. I mean would all of those criminals who make money off selling drugs, go legit and get real jobs or go to school? Or would they just find some other criminal enterprise to make money off of?
 
2014-06-02 09:59:49 AM  

mechgreg: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: The vast majority of the harm caused by drugs is caused by the fact that they are illegal.  It gives them a value they otherwise would not posses, which inspires criminal behavior.

While I totally agree with what you are saying, I do often wonder what would happen if drugs were legal and easily accessible. I mean would all of those criminals who make money off selling drugs, go legit and get real jobs or go to school? Or would they just find some other criminal enterprise to make money off of?


Most of the bootleggers went legit after prohibition of alcohol was repealed, you'd probably see similar numbers if drugs were taxed, inspected, and regulated
 
2014-06-02 10:04:43 AM  

mechgreg: While I totally agree with what you are saying, I do often wonder what would happen if drugs were legal and easily accessible.


Why not just look at the many other countries that have already done this?
 
2014-06-02 10:06:22 AM  

mechgreg: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: The vast majority of the harm caused by drugs is caused by the fact that they are illegal.  It gives them a value they otherwise would not posses, which inspires criminal behavior.

While I totally agree with what you are saying, I do often wonder what would happen if drugs were legal and easily accessible. I mean would all of those criminals who make money off selling drugs, go legit and get real jobs or go to school? Or would they just find some other criminal enterprise to make money off of?


Probably a combination of the two. I've read that some marijuana dealers have shifted to meth in part because of the increase in legalization. And I suppose some people will never want to live within the law. But if there is also a rational way to get non violent drug dealers into the legal system I suspect that number could be lowered.
 
2014-06-02 10:07:52 AM  
The ability to buy them legally from an actual store would decrease the amount of violence even further.  Not too many rival liquor store owners do drive bys on each other.
 
2014-06-02 10:13:24 AM  

slayer199: Well, other than the Dread Pirate Roberts putting out hits on people...otherwise, prohibition is the reason that the violence from the drug trade exists.


You're so off... It's the farking Benjamins... 1,000's if not 10,000 $$$ a day, plus guns and a territorial mindset! It's all about the corners.

/from So Cal and know where not to drive in LA
 
2014-06-02 10:18:11 AM  
It seems like a profitable enterprise that would attract competitors.  Has Silk Road been replaced by something else yet?
 
2014-06-02 10:18:29 AM  

mechgreg: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: The vast majority of the harm caused by drugs is caused by the fact that they are illegal.  It gives them a value they otherwise would not posses, which inspires criminal behavior.

While I totally agree with what you are saying, I do often wonder what would happen if drugs were legal and easily accessible. I mean would all of those criminals who make money off selling drugs, go legit and get real jobs or go to school? Or would they just find some other criminal enterprise to make money off of?


I think it would depend on the level of the dealer.

if it your local small time weed dealer, he will be forced out of the market...so he would need to get a real job (most have real jobs already and just push on the side for extra cash).  The dealer could switch to another drug to deal, which would depend on his connections up the chain.  The latter is a low possibility.

if he is already pushing a few products, then he would just lose one supply chain and still sling the others.

If he is a large supplier, then he probably could switch to a new product since he would be closer to connections for other things, but it depends on what type of clientele he would want to deal with ( a pot head is different than a coke head is different than a meth head)

criminals would still exist at the cartel level since coke, meth, etc. would still be illegal, but they would be more concentrated for the DEA and others to focus on at the same time.

think about a college, there are lots of low level guys selling weed on campus, fewer who deal coke/meth/pills.  so instead of worrying about twenty dealers, you are now looking for five to bust.
 
2014-06-02 10:30:10 AM  
Just decriminalize all drugs and set max weight limits on what you can carry. If you get caught with more than an ounce of weed you get fined and they take your drugs away.
 
2014-06-02 10:30:24 AM  

mechgreg: I do often wonder what would happen if drugs were legal and easily accessible. I mean would all of those criminals who make money off selling drugs, go legit and get real jobs or go to school? Or would they just find some other criminal enterprise to make money off of?


There was an article not too long ago in The Atlantic where they followed some larger drug dealers.  Some are concerned about the trend toward legalization.  One guy they followed was saving for retirement.  Another was positioning himself to become legal retail weed name brand.  I question whether these represent a valid cross section of the type of people who are in the trade.
 
2014-06-02 10:35:52 AM  
Given that they've seen a drop in crime rates in Colorado post-legalization, we can only conclude that

Prohibition Causes Crime

Not just the crimes that prohibition creates by making things crimes, but other crime as well.
 
2014-06-02 10:36:03 AM  

Swampmaster: slayer199: Well, other than the Dread Pirate Roberts putting out hits on people...otherwise, prohibition is the reason that the violence from the drug trade exists.

You're so off... It's the farking Benjamins... 1,000's if not 10,000 $$$ a day, plus guns and a territorial mindset! It's all about the corners.

/from So Cal and know where not to drive in LA


Sudhir Venkatesh would like to know what drug dealers are making that type of money.
 
2014-06-02 10:42:20 AM  
Is Silk Road a proto-Shadowland BBS?
 
2014-06-02 11:14:00 AM  

Muta: It seems like a profitable enterprise that would attract competitors.  Has Silk Road been replaced by something else yet?


In-Q-Tel
 
2014-06-02 11:20:46 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: WTF Indeed: Because people with the money to buy drugs, have a stable address, and have access to the internet are the people that cause drug related violence.

It appears that way.


s3.amazonaws.com
Tony probably would have a sweet PC set-up, if the movie took place in the late 90's
 
2014-06-02 11:40:10 AM  

mechgreg: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: The vast majority of the harm caused by drugs is caused by the fact that they are illegal.  It gives them a value they otherwise would not posses, which inspires criminal behavior.

While I totally agree with what you are saying, I do often wonder what would happen if drugs were legal and easily accessible. I mean would all of those criminals who make money off selling drugs, go legit and get real jobs or go to school? Or would they just find some other criminal enterprise to make money off of?


So we should keep the drugs illegal because some drug dealers might keep doing illegal things? Not putting words in your mouth, but pointing out a flaw someone else will probably point out in a not so nice way.
 
2014-06-02 11:42:18 AM  

Empty H: mechgreg: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: The vast majority of the harm caused by drugs is caused by the fact that they are illegal.  It gives them a value they otherwise would not posses, which inspires criminal behavior.

While I totally agree with what you are saying, I do often wonder what would happen if drugs were legal and easily accessible. I mean would all of those criminals who make money off selling drugs, go legit and get real jobs or go to school? Or would they just find some other criminal enterprise to make money off of?

So we should keep the drugs illegal because some drug dealers might keep doing illegal things? Not putting words in your mouth, but pointing out a flaw someone else will probably point out in a not so nice way.


Your right I didn't say we should keep them illegal, just thinking about all of the consequences. And I am not really talking about the kid in college selling weed, or the guy with a small grow op in his basement. I am talking about the street dealers, like the guys you saw on The Wire, talking about how awesome red tops were. And I was more speaking of if you legalized all drugs, not just pot.
 
2014-06-02 12:03:51 PM  

mechgreg: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: The vast majority of the harm caused by drugs is caused by the fact that they are illegal.  It gives them a value they otherwise would not posses, which inspires criminal behavior.

While I totally agree with what you are saying, I do often wonder what would happen if drugs were legal and easily accessible. I mean would all of those criminals who make money off selling drugs, go legit and get real jobs or go to school? Or would they just find some other criminal enterprise to make money off of?


Some go legit, some bail, some turn to other things. But it isn't this generation that is the important one. The fact is, legalization will pull enormous sums of money out of the black market making it far less lucrative and attractive for people to get involved with.

In some sectors it likely will lead to increased violence in the short term as the larger cartels reorganize and reposition in the remaining markets.

More important than any of that is bringing the users out of the dark. They aren't forced to deal with those people and hide from society (though the latter will take time and some societalchanges to capitalize on). For example,the "marijuana as a gateway drug" claim isn't because of its effects as a drug, but the associations developed while using it and dealing in the black market.
 
2014-06-02 12:39:10 PM  
It would only have been a matter of time before organized crime took it over and used violence and extortion to control it.

Every player in a market wants to push out all competition.  The role of government is to set the rules of the market so that it tilts in favor of the consumer, and prevent anyone from eliminating competition.

The problem with ALL illegal activity (economy-wise) is that since it is illegal it is inherently un-regulated and un-protected by the government, so it's a free-for all in which the players are able to attempt to push out all competition (usually by killing them), which is why the drug-trade is so highly lethal.  Banking would be the same way if it wasn't for government regulation.
 
2014-06-02 12:55:26 PM  

cefm: Banking would be the same way if it wasn't for government regulation.


I just laughed a bit at the thought of bankers with briefcases, standing on the corner yelling about how their mortgage rates are the bomb, watching out for cops or drive bys.
 
2014-06-02 01:13:07 PM  

Muta: It seems like a profitable enterprise that would attract competitors.  Has Silk Road been replaced by something else yet?


Not really. I think the message by the authorities was very well-received. It will be months or years before a safer silk road opens up, but it WILL happen. SR moved billions of dollars in drugs. The next iteration will be impossible to shut down. The internet is a laboratory for new business models and stronger cryptography. The authorities don't stand a chance. It takes them a year to even hire someone who can crack Tor.
 
2014-06-02 01:24:29 PM  

WTF Indeed: Because people with the money to buy drugs, have a stable address, and have access to the internet are the people that cause drug related violence.


Yes.  When you don't have a judicial system to solve business disagreements, violence often becomes the problem solver.
 
2014-06-02 01:50:06 PM  
Think of the police, though.

What are they going to do with their tanks and SWAT teams if they're not raiding 'dealers'?

Think of all of the toddlers who won't be critically injured by flash bags and all of the dogs that won't be shot.
 
2014-06-02 02:13:15 PM  
mechgreg:Your right I didn't say we should keep them illegal, just thinking about all of the consequences. And I am not really talking about the kid in college selling weed, or the guy with a small grow op in his basement. I am talking about the street dealers, like the guys you saw on The Wire, talking about how awesome red tops were. And I was more speaking of if you legalized all drugs, not just pot.

The way I read the article it basically cuts the street dealers out of the equation and since the whole thing is online and anonymous gives them no recourse to violence. The big problem with violence isn't dealer on customer violence but dealer on dealer violence as they fight for market share. There's no point shooting your competitor when he's not making any money either.
 
2014-06-02 02:44:28 PM  

mechgreg: cefm: Banking would be the same way if it wasn't for government regulation.

I just laughed a bit at the thought of bankers with briefcases, standing on the corner yelling about how their mortgage rates are the bomb, watching out for cops or drive bys.


I don't even....

I find it interesting that whenever people think of "drug dealer" they picture a black guy on some run down inner city corner and not the kid next to theirs in math class or the underemployed dad up the street, when those same people are far more likely to encounter the last two in their day to day lives.  The concept of the drug dealer standing on the corner hawking is pretty funny, I admit.
 
2014-06-02 03:33:08 PM  

MugzyBrown: Think of the police, though.

What are they going to do with their tanks and SWAT teams if they're not raiding 'dealers'?

Think of all of the toddlers who won't be critically injured by flash bags and all of the dogs that won't be shot.


People would make profits and it would reduce the power of the State, so Democrats will never go for decriminalization. It's a social policy that isn't pants-on-head retarded, so Republicans won't go for it. Very frustrating.
 
2014-06-02 03:37:36 PM  

IvyLady: mechgreg: cefm: Banking would be the same way if it wasn't for government regulation.

I just laughed a bit at the thought of bankers with briefcases, standing on the corner yelling about how their mortgage rates are the bomb, watching out for cops or drive bys.

I don't even....

I find it interesting that whenever people think of "drug dealer" they picture a black guy on some run down inner city corner and not the kid next to theirs in math class or the underemployed dad up the street, when those same people are far more likely to encounter the last two in their day to day lives.  The concept of the drug dealer standing on the corner hawking is pretty funny, I admit.


Have you never watched The Wire?
 
2014-06-02 03:37:45 PM  

un4gvn666: mechgreg: While I totally agree with what you are saying, I do often wonder what would happen if drugs were legal and easily accessible.

Why not just look at the many other countries that have already done this?


www.samefacts.com
 
2014-06-02 03:45:46 PM  

pueblonative: mechgreg: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: The vast majority of the harm caused by drugs is caused by the fact that they are illegal.  It gives them a value they otherwise would not posses, which inspires criminal behavior.

While I totally agree with what you are saying, I do often wonder what would happen if drugs were legal and easily accessible. I mean would all of those criminals who make money off selling drugs, go legit and get real jobs or go to school? Or would they just find some other criminal enterprise to make money off of?

Probably a combination of the two. I've read that some marijuana dealers have shifted to meth in part because of the increase in legalization. And I suppose some people will never want to live within the law. But if there is also a rational way to get non violent drug dealers into the legal system I suspect that number could be lowered.


I know it's anecdotal but I live in Washington and that's not happening. Every single pot dealer I've ever met here hated meth and looked down on anyone that had anything to do with it. What's happening right now is that the quality of the stuff on the street is going up and dealers are competing with each other by adding a little something extra to the sack. When the state stores kick in they'll be undercutting the price by at least 20 percent if the prices turn out to be the same as Colorado. It'll be interesting to see what the state does at that point, they may just ignore that because they will be getting a lot of revenue from pot, or and more likely they'll start going after people for competing with their business.
 
2014-06-02 03:48:05 PM  
This is the number one reason to legalize.
 
2014-06-02 04:20:39 PM  
Well that's one way to look at it. I hope that makes up for the higher rate of ripoffs and BTC failures of various kinds.

/actually it really might even out
//not getting busted or held up or shot buying smack "downtown"
 
2014-06-02 04:32:50 PM  

IvyLady: mechgreg: cefm: Banking would be the same way if it wasn't for government regulation.

I just laughed a bit at the thought of bankers with briefcases, standing on the corner yelling about how their mortgage rates are the bomb, watching out for cops or drive bys.

I don't even....

I find it interesting that whenever people think of "drug dealer" they picture a black guy on some run down inner city corner and not the kid next to theirs in math class or the underemployed dad up the street, when those same people are far more likely to encounter the last two in their day to day lives.  The concept of the drug dealer standing on the corner hawking is pretty funny, I admit.


Yeah, I'd wager that most "drug deals" are like: "Hey, Tony, you got anything?" "Yeah" "Wanna stop by tonight?" "Ok, I'll stop by when the kids go to bed."
 
2014-06-02 04:33:26 PM  

Gonz: IvyLady: mechgreg: cefm: Banking would be the same way if it wasn't for government regulation.

I just laughed a bit at the thought of bankers with briefcases, standing on the corner yelling about how their mortgage rates are the bomb, watching out for cops or drive bys.

I don't even....

I find it interesting that whenever people think of "drug dealer" they picture a black guy on some run down inner city corner and not the kid next to theirs in math class or the underemployed dad up the street, when those same people are far more likely to encounter the last two in their day to day lives.  The concept of the drug dealer standing on the corner hawking is pretty funny, I admit.

Have you never watched The Wire?


Yeah, pretty good show, but I've never obtained drugs that way.
 
2014-06-02 04:40:20 PM  
"... eliminated the need to associate with the violent."


/fixed
 
2014-06-02 04:50:27 PM  

Muta: It seems like a profitable enterprise that would attract competitors.  Has Silk Road been replaced by something else yet?


Someone calling himself DPR2 has an SR2 set up. I don't need a visit from DEA (so no direct link) but here's some info about dark markets: https://pay.reddit.com/r/DarkNetMarketsNoobs
 
2014-06-02 05:04:14 PM  

YixilTesiphon: People would make profits and it would reduce the power of the State, so Democrats will never go for decriminalization.


And if there is one thing your stereotypical 'Democrat' would never want, it'd be something new to tax.
 
2014-06-02 05:33:56 PM  

mechgreg: Empty H: mechgreg: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: The vast majority of the harm caused by drugs is caused by the fact that they are illegal.  It gives them a value they otherwise would not posses, which inspires criminal behavior.

While I totally agree with what you are saying, I do often wonder what would happen if drugs were legal and easily accessible. I mean would all of those criminals who make money off selling drugs, go legit and get real jobs or go to school? Or would they just find some other criminal enterprise to make money off of?

So we should keep the drugs illegal because some drug dealers might keep doing illegal things? Not putting words in your mouth, but pointing out a flaw someone else will probably point out in a not so nice way.

Your right I didn't say we should keep them illegal, just thinking about all of the consequences. And I am not really talking about the kid in college selling weed, or the guy with a small grow op in his basement. I am talking about the street dealers, like the guys you saw on The Wire, talking about how awesome red tops were. And I was more speaking of if you legalized all drugs, not just pot.


It took about half way through the thread for someone to allude to Hamsterdam, very disappointed in you Fark.
 
2014-06-02 10:40:31 PM  

mccallcl: Muta: It seems like a profitable enterprise that would attract competitors.  Has Silk Road been replaced by something else yet?


Not really. I think the message by the authorities was very well-received. It will be months or years before a safer silk road opens up, but it WILL happen.


It already did happen, Silk Road 2.0 launched in November of last year. And there are other similar dark web marketplaces, as well (or so I hear).
 
2014-06-03 07:40:13 AM  

mechgreg: While I totally agree with what you are saying, I do often wonder what would happen if drugs were legal and easily accessible. I mean would all of those criminals who make money off selling drugs, go legit and get real jobs or go to school? Or would they just find some other criminal enterprise to make money off of?


Pretty much every US company that produces alcohol older than WW2 was active during prohibition, so... yes.  Many of them even started up  during prohibition.

The entire Kennedy political family are basically bootleggers that took the money and went off to get real jobs after it was legalized, as well.

So, yeah, a lot of them will likely go legit.
 
2014-06-03 02:45:23 PM  

Quaker: mccallcl: Muta: It seems like a profitable enterprise that would attract competitors.  Has Silk Road been replaced by something else yet?


Not really. I think the message by the authorities was very well-received. It will be months or years before a safer silk road opens up, but it WILL happen.

It already did happen, Silk Road 2.0 launched in November of last year. And there are other similar dark web marketplaces, as well (or so I hear).


Sweet! Love to be wrong about things like this!
 
Displayed 49 of 49 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter






In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report