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(News.com.au)   Yes, the reports of bitcoin's death have been greatly exaggerated   (news.com.au) divider line 88
    More: Followup, Abbott Laboratories, Andreessen Horowitz, Sir Richard Branson, bitcoins, Ashraf Laidi  
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1525 clicks; posted to Business » on 01 Jun 2014 at 9:29 AM (29 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-06-01 07:52:26 AM  
Yeah, nothing like a 30% gain in 2 weeks to convince the general public that it's a stable commodity, worthy of use as a means of payment.
 
2014-06-01 08:41:40 AM  
Invest in bitcoin. It's like the stock market only dodgier.
 
2014-06-01 09:41:14 AM  
cdn0.vox-cdn.com
 
2014-06-01 09:43:40 AM  
Bitcoin discussions always reminds me of this quote:

I'm gonna miss this place. Rapture was a candy store for a guy like me. Guys who thought they knew it all. Dames who thought they'd seen it all. Give me a smart mark over a dumb one every time.
 
2014-06-01 09:48:08 AM  
Next on CNN Money: "Leading Bitcoin Exchange 'Bitstamp' hacked and millions of dollars lost."

So what good is that digital history/transaction ledger, if they still haven't recovered the real $$$ of the Mt Gox victims?

/Fool me once...
//Pig in a poke
///Ponzi
 
2014-06-01 10:06:48 AM  
So, are businesses actually taking these as payment?
 
2014-06-01 10:21:50 AM  

doglover: [cdn0.vox-cdn.com image 640x394]


I really can't get over how asinine that dog coin is. It's like one big circle jerk only everyone is wearing mittens and has corks on the forks.
 
2014-06-01 10:24:50 AM  

Two Dogs Farking: Yeah, nothing like a 30% gain in 2 weeks to convince the general public that it's a stable commodity, worthy of use as a means of payment.


It's a currency, not a commodity.
 
2014-06-01 10:27:12 AM  

Arkanaut: So, are businesses actually taking these as payment?


Probably, but given the rate at which the price seems to be increasing, I don't see why anyone would want to use it as payment instead of holding on to it.
 
2014-06-01 10:29:44 AM  

TEA-PARTY-PATRIOT: doglover: [cdn0.vox-cdn.com image 640x394]

I really can't get over how asinine that dog coin is. It's like one big circle jerk only everyone is wearing mittens and has corks on the forks.


It's actually as useful as bitcoin, and funnier.
 
2014-06-01 10:34:28 AM  

foo monkey: Two Dogs Farking: Yeah, nothing like a 30% gain in 2 weeks to convince the general public that it's a stable commodity, worthy of use as a means of payment.

It's a currency, not a commodity.


No, it's really a commodity.
 
2014-06-01 11:11:03 AM  

Apocalyptic Inferno: foo monkey: Two Dogs Farking: Yeah, nothing like a 30% gain in 2 weeks to convince the general public that it's a stable commodity, worthy of use as a means of payment.

It's a currency, not a commodity.

No, it's really a commodity.


And a very weird one at that.
 
2014-06-01 11:20:43 AM  
So this article I'm assuming breaks down more or less to "Yes, we know there was a bust before, but it's BOOM TIME BABY"?
 
2014-06-01 11:50:42 AM  
Every time I hear the word Bitcoin, this mage always comes to mind: some greasy haired weirdo in a bad-fitting suit.

images.dailytech.com

Maybe it's because his face gives off that Ted Cruz vibe that triggers an Oogie Reflex.
 
2014-06-01 11:57:45 AM  

Anonymous Bosch: So this article I'm assuming breaks down more or less to "Yes, we know there was a bust before, but it's BOOM TIME BABY"?


Like the real estate market?
 
2014-06-01 12:32:03 PM  
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-06-01 12:55:56 PM  

foo monkey: Two Dogs Farking: Yeah, nothing like a 30% gain in 2 weeks to convince the general public that it's a stable commodity, worthy of use as a means of payment.

It's a currency, not a commodity.


There is no reality where this is true. Legally, functionally, and definitively it is a commodity. A speculative commodity. And only barely that.

You don't get to just define economic terms any way you want. I can trade eggs for milk at the farmers' market, but that doesn't make eggs or milk a currency.

Stop it.
 
2014-06-01 01:01:18 PM  
what else am i going to order my drugs and guns with online?
 
2014-06-01 01:05:24 PM  

foo monkey: Two Dogs Farking: Yeah, nothing like a 30% gain in 2 weeks to convince the general public that it's a stable commodity, worthy of use as a means of payment.

It's a currency, not a commodity.



Just the same way World of Warcraft Gold is a currency: an arbitrary digital amount made up by a private entity that only has as much real-world worth as people are willing to ascribe to it, and is useless outside of a relatively small community.

You can't pay employees with it (law says it has to be in dollars), you can't pay your taxes with it, 99.99% of stores don't take it (I would say you can't buy anything with it, but I know there are a tiny handful of places that take it as a novelty and I know if I said "anything" they would be trotted out).  It's not like I can drive up to a gas station and fill my tank and pay with bitcoin, or go to the grocery and pay with bitcoin, or use bitcoin for any other daily expenses.

It's main use is for speculative investing, the self-gratification of crypto and conspiracy geeks, the purchase of illicit goods and services on the Dark Web.

If someone offered me $250,000 in USD right now, or $1,000,000 in Bitcoins today, but I couldn't sell them for a year, I'd take the hard dollars.  Bitcoins are way, WAY too volatile in price to treat seriously.
 
2014-06-01 01:09:16 PM  

The_Time_Master: Anonymous Bosch: So this article I'm assuming breaks down more or less to "Yes, we know there was a bust before, but it's BOOM TIME BABY"?

Like the real estate market?


Pretty much, except you never end up owning an actual thing.
 
2014-06-01 01:18:00 PM  
I received an email last week from Mt. Gox's lawyers explaining that a hearing was happening soon concerning their bankruptcy in a N. Texas court.

I pondered for a moment how fun it would be to arrive with some friends who all lost money and take it out of the lawyers asses, Usual Suspects style.

I then got to the bottom of the letter only to see that it was signed by their lead attorney, Mr. Kobayashi,

I would have shiat my pants if I weren't sitting on the toilet.
 
2014-06-01 01:18:51 PM  

foo monkey: Two Dogs Farking: Yeah, nothing like a 30% gain in 2 weeks to convince the general public that it's a stable commodity, worthy of use as a means of payment.

It's a currency, not a commodity.


Even if that were true, how does that change anything. Hell, with a currency stability is even MORE important. If any currency were fluctuating as much as bitcoins, everyone would be exchanging them for USD, Euros or some regionally important currency as fast as they possibly could.
 
2014-06-01 01:20:20 PM  
"It's falling, it's doomed!"
"It's rising, it's doomed!"
 
2014-06-01 01:24:10 PM  

Two Dogs Farking: Yeah, nothing like a 30% gain in 2 weeks to convince the general public that it's a stable commodity, worthy of use as a means of payment.


When the prices fluctuates, critics say that it's unstable. When the price stabilizes for months, critics say it's a shiatty investment.
 
2014-06-01 01:32:44 PM  

MacEnvy: foo monkey: Two Dogs Farking: Yeah, nothing like a 30% gain in 2 weeks to convince the general public that it's a stable commodity, worthy of use as a means of payment.

It's a currency, not a commodity.

There is no reality where this is true. Legally, functionally, and definitively it is a commodity. A speculative commodity. And only barely that.

You don't get to just define economic terms any way you want. I can trade eggs for milk at the farmers' market, but that doesn't make eggs or milk a currency.

Stop it.


In order to qualify as a currency, something must be used to facilitate transactions.  Therefore, bitcoins qualify, and if I could convince someone to accept barleycorns as payment for good and services, barleycorns would also qualify as currency.

Granted, not all commodities make good currencies.  If I convinced my auto mechanic to take payment in barleycorns, I'd need a ridiculous number of barleycorns just to pay for a new set of tires.
 
2014-06-01 01:36:30 PM  

doglover: [cdn0.vox-cdn.com image 640x394]


Sadly, as bitcoin has jumped quickly, dogecoin has sunk.  Looks like there's only enough room for one currency.  It's unfortunate, really, as dogecoin has had a lot of positive press and the community has done a lot of good things with it
 
2014-06-01 01:45:26 PM  

Arkanaut: So, are businesses actually taking these as payment?


elgarblog.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-06-01 01:45:59 PM  

anfrind: MacEnvy: foo monkey: Two Dogs Farking: Yeah, nothing like a 30% gain in 2 weeks to convince the general public that it's a stable commodity, worthy of use as a means of payment.

It's a currency, not a commodity.

There is no reality where this is true. Legally, functionally, and definitively it is a commodity. A speculative commodity. And only barely that.

You don't get to just define economic terms any way you want. I can trade eggs for milk at the farmers' market, but that doesn't make eggs or milk a currency.

Stop it.

In order to qualify as a currency, something must be used to facilitate transactions.  Therefore, bitcoins qualify, and if I could convince someone to accept barleycorns as payment for good and services, barleycorns would also qualify as currency.

Granted, not all commodities make good currencies.  If I convinced my auto mechanic to take payment in barleycorns, I'd need a ridiculous number of barleycorns just to pay for a new set of tires.


NO. By definition, currency must be a form of money. Money consist of debt tokens in classical economics, and Bitcoins are NOT that. They are a speculative commodity that can be traded for goods and services, NOT a currency.

YOU DON'T GET TO MAKE UP YOUR OWN DEFINITION FOR WORDS JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW THE REAL DEFINITION. Although given that, it's unsurprising that there are so many libertarians enamored by Bitcoin, since they make up their own terminology and call it gospel all the time.
 
2014-06-01 02:02:29 PM  

MacEnvy: anfrind: MacEnvy: foo monkey: Two Dogs Farking: Yeah, nothing like a 30% gain in 2 weeks to convince the general public that it's a stable commodity, worthy of use as a means of payment.

It's a currency, not a commodity.

There is no reality where this is true. Legally, functionally, and definitively it is a commodity. A speculative commodity. And only barely that.

You don't get to just define economic terms any way you want. I can trade eggs for milk at the farmers' market, but that doesn't make eggs or milk a currency.

Stop it.

In order to qualify as a currency, something must be used to facilitate transactions.  Therefore, bitcoins qualify, and if I could convince someone to accept barleycorns as payment for good and services, barleycorns would also qualify as currency.

Granted, not all commodities make good currencies.  If I convinced my auto mechanic to take payment in barleycorns, I'd need a ridiculous number of barleycorns just to pay for a new set of tires.

NO. By definition, currency must be a form of money. Money consist of debt tokens in classical economics, and Bitcoins are NOT that. They are a speculative commodity that can be traded for goods and services, NOT a currency.

YOU DON'T GET TO MAKE UP YOUR OWN DEFINITION FOR WORDS JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW THE REAL DEFINITION. Although given that, it's unsurprising that there are so many libertarians enamored by Bitcoin, since they make up their own terminology and call it gospel all the time.


libertarians = people who know the best way to do everything without even knowing why we do it the way we currently do it
 
2014-06-01 02:06:21 PM  

MacEnvy: anfrind: MacEnvy: foo monkey: Two Dogs Farking: Yeah, nothing like a 30% gain in 2 weeks to convince the general public that it's a stable commodity, worthy of use as a means of payment.

It's a currency, not a commodity.

There is no reality where this is true. Legally, functionally, and definitively it is a commodity. A speculative commodity. And only barely that.

You don't get to just define economic terms any way you want. I can trade eggs for milk at the farmers' market, but that doesn't make eggs or milk a currency.

Stop it.

In order to qualify as a currency, something must be used to facilitate transactions.  Therefore, bitcoins qualify, and if I could convince someone to accept barleycorns as payment for good and services, barleycorns would also qualify as currency.

Granted, not all commodities make good currencies.  If I convinced my auto mechanic to take payment in barleycorns, I'd need a ridiculous number of barleycorns just to pay for a new set of tires.

NO. By definition, currency must be a form of money. Money consist of debt tokens in classical economics, and Bitcoins are NOT that. They are a speculative commodity that can be traded for goods and services, NOT a currency.

YOU DON'T GET TO MAKE UP YOUR OWN DEFINITION FOR WORDS JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW THE REAL DEFINITION. Although given that, it's unsurprising that there are so many libertarians enamored by Bitcoin, since they make up their own terminology and call it gospel all the time.




Money is what you can use to pay your debts to the government.
 
2014-06-01 02:32:30 PM  

MacEnvy: anfrind: MacEnvy: foo monkey: Two Dogs Farking: Yeah, nothing like a 30% gain in 2 weeks to convince the general public that it's a stable commodity, worthy of use as a means of payment.

It's a currency, not a commodity.

There is no reality where this is true. Legally, functionally, and definitively it is a commodity. A speculative commodity. And only barely that.

You don't get to just define economic terms any way you want. I can trade eggs for milk at the farmers' market, but that doesn't make eggs or milk a currency.

Stop it.

In order to qualify as a currency, something must be used to facilitate transactions.  Therefore, bitcoins qualify, and if I could convince someone to accept barleycorns as payment for good and services, barleycorns would also qualify as currency.

Granted, not all commodities make good currencies.  If I convinced my auto mechanic to take payment in barleycorns, I'd need a ridiculous number of barleycorns just to pay for a new set of tires.

NO. By definition, currency must be a form of money. Money consist of debt tokens in classical economics, and Bitcoins are NOT that. They are a speculative commodity that can be traded for goods and services, NOT a currency.

YOU DON'T GET TO MAKE UP YOUR OWN DEFINITION FOR WORDS JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW THE REAL DEFINITION. Although given that, it's unsurprising that there are so many libertarians enamored by Bitcoin, since they make up their own terminology and call it gospel all the time.


By definition a museum curates cultural artifacts and that is that. Yet the American Association of Museums have programs for digital museums which merely present interpretive displays and do zero citation themselves.

Definitions change every generation in all social sciences. And despite protestations to the contrary economics is a part of that tradition. It is taught alongside the other social sciences and they share many theoretical frameworks that lead to opposing conclusions whenever numbers are released.
 
2014-06-01 02:35:22 PM  
Time to whip out this old favorite again:

img.fark.net
 
2014-06-01 02:38:52 PM  

MacEnvy: NO. By definition, currency must be a form of money. Money consist of debt tokens in classical economics, and Bitcoins are NOT that. They are a speculative commodity that can be traded for goods and services, NOT a currency.

YOU DON'T GET TO MAKE UP YOUR OWN DEFINITION FOR WORDS JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW THE REAL DEFINITION. Although given that, it's unsurprising that there are so many libertarians enamored by Bitcoin, since they make up their own terminology and call it gospel all the time.


Technically, gold is also a speculative commodity. But people still use it as a form of money.

Dollars, Yen, yuan, Loonies, pounds, they're all fiat and have no intrinsic value other than what people say they're worth (hence, fiat). Bitcoins and Dogecoins have the exact same characteristics as fiat money. How in god's name are they not a currency?

Seriously, walk me through this logic of yours, because I fundamentally think you're wrong.
 
2014-06-01 02:44:13 PM  

ajgeek: MacEnvy: NO. By definition, currency must be a form of money. Money consist of debt tokens in classical economics, and Bitcoins are NOT that. They are a speculative commodity that can be traded for goods and services, NOT a currency.

YOU DON'T GET TO MAKE UP YOUR OWN DEFINITION FOR WORDS JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW THE REAL DEFINITION. Although given that, it's unsurprising that there are so many libertarians enamored by Bitcoin, since they make up their own terminology and call it gospel all the time.

Technically, gold is also a speculative commodity. But people still use it as a form of money.

Dollars, Yen, yuan, Loonies, pounds, they're all fiat and have no intrinsic value other than what people say they're worth (hence, fiat). Bitcoins and Dogecoins have the exact same characteristics as fiat money. How in god's name are they not a currency?

Seriously, walk me through this logic of yours, because I fundamentally think you're wrong.


Keep going. You're amusing.
 
2014-06-01 03:06:15 PM  

Arkanaut: So, are businesses actually taking these as payment?


Most cases where businesses accept bitcoins they have a dollar price, they then convert that into bitcoins at the time of purschase, you transfer the bitcoins to the store who immediately convert them back into dollars.

For all practical purposes you're still paying in USD, just using a free EFTPOS service rather than the store taking a hit for credit card processing fees. Which is one of the real utilities of bitcoin, as long as enough people are mining. The system may not work quite so well when the computing power to manage find transfers costs more in electricity than the bitcoins mined are worth. Then they'll need to charge fees to keep it running.
 
2014-06-01 03:14:08 PM  

ajgeek: MacEnvy: NO. By definition, currency must be a form of money. Money consist of debt tokens in classical economics, and Bitcoins are NOT that. They are a speculative commodity that can be traded for goods and services, NOT a currency.

YOU DON'T GET TO MAKE UP YOUR OWN DEFINITION FOR WORDS JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW THE REAL DEFINITION. Although given that, it's unsurprising that there are so many libertarians enamored by Bitcoin, since they make up their own terminology and call it gospel all the time.

Technically, gold is also a speculative commodity. But people still use it as a form of money.

Dollars, Yen, yuan, Loonies, pounds, they're all fiat and have no intrinsic value other than what people say they're worth (hence, fiat). Bitcoins and Dogecoins have the exact same characteristics as fiat money. How in god's name are they not a currency?

Seriously, walk me through this logic of yours, because I fundamentally think you're wrong.


In standard economic theory there are four fundamental functions which a currency must serve in order to be considered "money."

First, it must be a medium of exchange, meaning that it can be exchanged for goods and services and is durable enough to pass between multiple people over a reasonably lengthy period of time without losing its value.  Bitcoin has a bit of problem with this because it's not universally accepted (or even widely accepted yet), but it comes close enough to pass.

Second, it must have a unit of account with fungibility so that each unit is treated the same.  Bitcoin passes this test.

Third, it must be a store of value, so when I accept a unit of currency on one day and then go out to spend it a few weeks later, I can expect that it will have roughly the same value.  Bitcoin doesn't pass this test because its value is too volatile.  Nobody's going to use Bitcoin as money when the $450 in Bitcoin they spend on May 19th could become $650 in Bitcoin on June 1st.

Lastly, and the part where Bitcoin fails completely, is that money must be a standard of deferred payment, meaning that it can be used to settle debts.  It's why all US currency says "legal tender for all debts, public and private."  When we were under the gold standard, you could pay off debts in gold or in gold certificates.  Now, you can payoff debts in US dollars.  Until you can pay your mortgage, or car payment, or taxes in Bitcoin, it is not money.  It is a commodity that you can exchange for real money.
 
2014-06-01 03:24:37 PM  

ajgeek: MacEnvy: NO. By definition, currency must be a form of money. Money consist of debt tokens in classical economics, and Bitcoins are NOT that. They are a speculative commodity that can be traded for goods and services, NOT a currency.

YOU DON'T GET TO MAKE UP YOUR OWN DEFINITION FOR WORDS JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW THE REAL DEFINITION. Although given that, it's unsurprising that there are so many libertarians enamored by Bitcoin, since they make up their own terminology and call it gospel all the time.

Technically, gold is also a speculative commodity. But people still use it as a form of money.

Dollars, Yen, yuan, Loonies, pounds, they're all fiat and have no intrinsic value other than what people say they're worth (hence, fiat). Bitcoins and Dogecoins have the exact same characteristics as fiat money. How in god's name are they not a currency?

Seriously, walk me through this logic of yours, because I fundamentally think you're wrong.


Based on the definition of money simply that it can be exchanged for goods and services, then all goods and services are money.
 
2014-06-01 03:45:18 PM  

rugman11: Third, it must be a store of value, so when I accept a unit of currency on one day and then go out to spend it a few weeks later, I can expect that it will have roughly the same value. Bitcoin doesn't pass this test because its value is too volatile. Nobody's going to use Bitcoin as money when the $450 in Bitcoin they spend on May 19th could become $650 in Bitcoin on June 1st.

Lastly, and the part where Bitcoin fails completely, is that money must be a standard of deferred payment, meaning that it can be used to settle debts. It's why all US currency says "legal tender for all debts, public and private." When we were under the gold standard, you could pay off debts in gold or in gold certificates. Now, you can payoff debts in US dollars. Until you can pay your mortgage, or car payment, or taxes in Bitcoin, it is not money. It is a commodity that you can exchange for real money.


In regards to the third point, currencies undergo hyperinflation and deflation.  They're still currencies.

In regards to the fourth point, the USD can't be used to pay debt outside of where it is the official currency.  Does that mean it is not a currency in those areas?  The US only accepts US tender as payment.  You can't pay your property tax in California in Yen. You can pay for private goods with bitcoin(cars, education, homes, etc) provided the vendor accepts that form of currency, just like a vendor on a country border accepting currencies from both countries, despite one currency not being legal tender in the country they reside in.
 
2014-06-01 03:47:31 PM  

dywed88: ajgeek: MacEnvy: NO. By definition, currency must be a form of money. Money consist of debt tokens in classical economics, and Bitcoins are NOT that. They are a speculative commodity that can be traded for goods and services, NOT a currency.

YOU DON'T GET TO MAKE UP YOUR OWN DEFINITION FOR WORDS JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW THE REAL DEFINITION. Although given that, it's unsurprising that there are so many libertarians enamored by Bitcoin, since they make up their own terminology and call it gospel all the time.

Technically, gold is also a speculative commodity. But people still use it as a form of money.

Dollars, Yen, yuan, Loonies, pounds, they're all fiat and have no intrinsic value other than what people say they're worth (hence, fiat). Bitcoins and Dogecoins have the exact same characteristics as fiat money. How in god's name are they not a currency?

Seriously, walk me through this logic of yours, because I fundamentally think you're wrong.

Based on the definition of money simply that it can be exchanged for goods and services, then all goods and services are money.


That would be barter.  The difference between barter and currency is the medium. "Barter is a system of exchange by which goods or services are directly exchanged for other goods or services without using a medium of exchange."
 
2014-06-01 04:01:26 PM  

ajgeek: Dollars, Yen, yuan, Loonies, pounds, they're all fiat and have no intrinsic value other than what people say they're worth (hence, fiat). Bitcoins and Dogecoins have the exact same characteristics as fiat money. How in god's name are they not a currency?

Seriously, walk me through this logic of yours, because I fundamentally think you're wrong.


They are a currency.  But closer to the currency of some banana republic where everyone uses USD than any of your examples.  Also, the difference is that it lacks the fiat of a fiat currency.
 
2014-06-01 04:04:38 PM  

qorkfiend: Arkanaut: So, are businesses actually taking these as payment?

Probably, but given the rate at which the price seems to be increasing, I don't see why anyone would want to use it as payment instead of holding on to it.


B...b...but it's a currency, not a commodity!

Technically, a deflationary currency is a TYPE of currency!
 
2014-06-01 04:06:01 PM  

Target Builder: Arkanaut: So, are businesses actually taking these as payment?

Most cases where businesses accept bitcoins they have a dollar price, they then convert that into bitcoins at the time of purschase, you transfer the bitcoins to the store who immediately convert them back into dollars.

For all practical purposes you're still paying in USD, just using a free EFTPOS service rather than the store taking a hit for credit card processing fees. Which is one of the real utilities of bitcoin, as long as enough people are mining. The system may not work quite so well when the computing power to manage find transfers costs more in electricity than the bitcoins mined are worth. Then they'll need to charge fees to keep it running.


My company cannot move money out of Argentina. Argentina has an inflation rate of 25%+.

Bitcoins are something they are looking at.
 
2014-06-01 04:06:56 PM  

bhcompy: In regards to the fourth point, the USD can't be used to pay debt outside of where it is the official currency. Does that mean it is not a currency in those areas? The US only accepts US tender as payment. You can't pay your property tax in California in Yen. You can pay for private goods with bitcoin(cars, education, homes, etc) provided the vendor accepts that form of currency, just like a vendor on a country border accepting currencies from both countries, despite one currency not being legal tender in the country they reside in.


Assuming that we're talking about "currency" in its broader context as opposed to the actual coins or paper, then yes, that's exactly what it means.  A currency is only money when it's treated as such.  If I have a bunch of Yen in California, that is not money.  It's equivalent of having a stock certificate or a US Treasury Bond.  I can probably exchange it for currency, but the Yen itself is not a currency.

With respect to your border hypothetical, the "other" currency in this situation is often not fungible, meaning that it can have a different value depending on where I spend it.  The current exchange rate is 12.86 pesos per dollar, but if I go to Tijuana, some vendors might give me 10 pesos for a dollar, some might give me 15.  The dollar, in this case, is not money because its value fluctuates from vendor to vendor, among other reasons.

Just because something is used as a medium of exchange does not automatically make it a currency.  And just because something is a currency in one place does not make it so in another.
 
2014-06-01 04:20:32 PM  

Two Dogs Farking: Time to whip out this old favorite again:

[img.fark.net image 400x378]


Yea? Cool story. Except it exists, it continues to exist, and it continues to grow. Explain that.
 
2014-06-01 04:27:36 PM  

Kap77: Yea? Cool story. Except it exists, it continues to exist, and it continues to grow. Explain that.


Well based on his image, i would assume his explanation would be there is a large population of people who know nothing about math, investing and currency is large and/or growing.

/Just because something becomes more and more popular, doesn't mean the people making it so aren't ignorant.  See, e.g., the tea party
 
2014-06-01 04:28:55 PM  

Kap77: Two Dogs Farking: Time to whip out this old favorite again:

[img.fark.net image 400x378]

Yea? Cool story. Except it exists, it continues to exist, and it continues to grow. Explain that.


"There's a sucker born every minute."
 
2014-06-01 04:41:35 PM  

bromah: what else am i going to order my drugs and guns with online?


The guns thing didn't work out.
 
2014-06-01 04:43:24 PM  
mcreadyblue:

My company cannot move money out of Argentina. Argentina has an inflation rate of 25%+.

Bitcoins are something they are looking at.


International money transfers are another potential useful function of bitcoin, although the same issues arise with the potential that if coins are no longer worth mining that there will be issues with funding the computing power behind the exchange, but in this instance fees would probably be more accepted.
 
2014-06-01 04:45:37 PM  

MacEnvy: anfrind: MacEnvy: foo monkey: Two Dogs Farking: Yeah, nothing like a 30% gain in 2 weeks to convince the general public that it's a stable commodity, worthy of use as a means of payment.

It's a currency, not a commodity.

There is no reality where this is true. Legally, functionally, and definitively it is a commodity. A speculative commodity. And only barely that.

You don't get to just define economic terms any way you want. I can trade eggs for milk at the farmers' market, but that doesn't make eggs or milk a currency.

Stop it.

In order to qualify as a currency, something must be used to facilitate transactions.  Therefore, bitcoins qualify, and if I could convince someone to accept barleycorns as payment for good and services, barleycorns would also qualify as currency.

Granted, not all commodities make good currencies.  If I convinced my auto mechanic to take payment in barleycorns, I'd need a ridiculous number of barleycorns just to pay for a new set of tires.

NO. By definition, currency must be a form of money. Money consist of debt tokens in classical economics, and Bitcoins are NOT that. They are a speculative commodity that can be traded for goods and services, NOT a currency.

YOU DON'T GET TO MAKE UP YOUR OWN DEFINITION FOR WORDS JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW THE REAL DEFINITION. Although given that, it's unsurprising that there are so many libertarians enamored by Bitcoin, since they make up their own terminology and call it gospel all the time.


Currency, n. Of money: The fact or quality of being current or passing from man to man as a medium of exchange; circulation.
 
2014-06-01 04:57:30 PM  

anfrind: MacEnvy: anfrind: MacEnvy: foo monkey: Two Dogs Farking: Yeah, nothing like a 30% gain in 2 weeks to convince the general public that it's a stable commodity, worthy of use as a means of payment.

It's a currency, not a commodity.

There is no reality where this is true. Legally, functionally, and definitively it is a commodity. A speculative commodity. And only barely that.

You don't get to just define economic terms any way you want. I can trade eggs for milk at the farmers' market, but that doesn't make eggs or milk a currency.

Stop it.

In order to qualify as a currency, something must be used to facilitate transactions.  Therefore, bitcoins qualify, and if I could convince someone to accept barleycorns as payment for good and services, barleycorns would also qualify as currency.

Granted, not all commodities make good currencies.  If I convinced my auto mechanic to take payment in barleycorns, I'd need a ridiculous number of barleycorns just to pay for a new set of tires.

NO. By definition, currency must be a form of money. Money consist of debt tokens in classical economics, and Bitcoins are NOT that. They are a speculative commodity that can be traded for goods and services, NOT a currency.

YOU DON'T GET TO MAKE UP YOUR OWN DEFINITION FOR WORDS JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW THE REAL DEFINITION. Although given that, it's unsurprising that there are so many libertarians enamored by Bitcoin, since they make up their own terminology and call it gospel all the time.

Currency, n. Of money: The fact or quality of being current or passing from man to man as a medium of exchange; circulation.


Thus proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that you morons are using the laymen's form of the term rather than the actual economic definition. Thanks for that, it demonstrated my point perfectly.
 
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