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(The Atlantic)   The solution to the nation's education crisis? Extended school days   (theatlantic.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, academic achievements, compulsory education, wealth distribution, charter schools, enrichment, achievement gap  
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3786 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Jun 2014 at 12:28 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-31 09:30:10 PM  
Do they even talk to teachers?

I don't think they do. I don't even think these "education reform" people have even BEEN to a school.
 
2014-05-31 09:39:27 PM  
I thought No Child Left Behind was supposed to be the solution to the nation's education crisis. WTF?
 
2014-05-31 09:54:18 PM  
I'm curious now, is the public education system in the U.S. in "crisis" and by what metric do they determine that?  I know some school boards in the country are in crisis but the entire system as a whole?
 
2014-05-31 11:19:55 PM  

MrBallou: I thought No Child Left Behind was supposed to be the solution to the nation's education crisis. WTF?


i126.photobucket.com
 
2014-05-31 11:40:47 PM  

doglover: Do they even talk to teachers?

I don't think they do. I don't even think these "education reform" people have even BEEN to a school.


Most teachers are log considerably more hours than the scheduled school day.  Depending on how the extra time is spent I could see it being useful, but it should come with a commensurate raise for the staff at the school.
 
2014-06-01 12:31:44 AM  
More like extended school year. 3 months off is absurd. We're not farmers anymore.
 
2014-06-01 12:32:45 AM  
Quit treating schools like a daycare, and quit taking your kid's side in any and every situation?
 
2014-06-01 12:33:16 AM  
Is this where a bunch of benighted trolls claim that teaching kids to make squiggly lines on paper is a good use of K-12 classroom time?
 
2014-06-01 12:34:16 AM  
What a terrifically horrible idea
 
2014-06-01 12:37:16 AM  
the spankings will continue until moran improves
 
2014-06-01 12:38:29 AM  

ZoeNekros: More like extended school year. 3 months off is absurd. We're not farmers anymore.


Three months a year off is fine. The problem is that they are consecutive months. Too much time away. I'd rather go three months on, one month off.
 
2014-06-01 12:38:57 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: doglover: Do they even talk to teachers?

I don't think they do. I don't even think these "education reform" people have even BEEN to a school.

Most teachers are log considerably more hours than the scheduled school day.  Depending on how the extra time is spent I could see it being useful, but it should come with a commensurate raise for the staff at the school.


According to bls.gov, teachers work fewer hours in a year than average. fark your raise. If you want one fight against the ever expanding administration that has tripled in size per student since 1980. That is where you need reform to pay teachers more.
 
2014-06-01 12:38:58 AM  
"What we're doing isn't working. Let's do more of it!"
 
2014-06-01 12:39:06 AM  
"and surprisingly, students and teachers seem to love it."

BS.
 
2014-06-01 12:39:39 AM  
Extended school days will lead to higher drop-out rates and more instances of ditching during & after lunch period.

/high school teacher
//this would be one of the dumbest farking ideas of all time
 
2014-06-01 12:39:54 AM  

Man On Pink Corner: Is this where a bunch of benighted trolls claim that teaching kids to make squiggly lines on paper is a good use of K-12 classroom time?


This. I've not used cursive for anything but my signature since school.
 
2014-06-01 12:40:07 AM  
Keep them little bastards locked up 24/7! The world will be a better place without kids.
 
2014-06-01 12:40:41 AM  
More of a bad thing is always a good thing!
 
2014-06-01 12:42:10 AM  
From the mother-farking article:  "Even Finland, whose test scores consistently top international rankings, doesn't have compulsory schooling until age seven, and their school day is shorter than a typical American day."

But hey, let's try the opposite of what works!  That'll surely work!  It's the American way!
 
2014-06-01 12:43:19 AM  

SubBass49: Extended school days will lead to higher drop-out rates and more instances of ditching during & after lunch period.

/high school teacher
//this would be one of the dumbest farking ideas of all time


This, and maybe they could make education more enjoyable for the younger kids and quit pressuring them for standardized testing.
 
2014-06-01 12:44:09 AM  

Ambivalence: I'm curious now, is the public education system in the U.S. in "crisis" and by what metric do they determine that?  I know some school boards in the country are in crisis but the entire system as a whole?


The deceitful measure that is used is a dropping ranking compared to other nations on objective metrics of knowledge/skills.  Why is that deceitful?  Because American students usually improve against the previous year of American students.
 
2014-06-01 12:44:49 AM  
"...parents love it-especially at the high school level."

Of course they do, they actually know where their kids are.  Problem is that you know teachers wont be paid an extra dime for the extended hours.
 
2014-06-01 12:46:00 AM  

SubBass49: From the mother-farking article:  "Even Finland, whose test scores consistently top international rankings, doesn't have compulsory schooling until age seven, and their school day is shorter than a typical American day."

But hey, let's try the opposite of what works!  That'll surely work!  It's the American way!


img.photobucket.com
 
2014-06-01 12:46:03 AM  
If the edumacation of childrens is important, the laws should reflect it.
No summer breaks.
Six hour school days.
Six hour work days for any worker with school age children with B or higher GPA.
Grade inflation and truancy are capital offenses.
Employment discrimination against parents of school age children is punished in Guantanamo.
Q.E.D.
 
2014-06-01 12:47:33 AM  
Nope. Here's a three step plan that would turn shot around:

1) Stop coddling and submitting to kids.
2) Let boys be boys, and girls be girls.
3) Zero tolerance for zero-tolerance policies.

Never gonna happen because "ow, my feelings," but I can dream, right?
 
2014-06-01 12:48:39 AM  
Want students in low-performing schools to do better?  Award bonus checks to the parents of kids in the top X percent of the class.  The teachers are already teaching their asses off for the most part, and the kids that work hard and/or give a fark end up doing well.  It's the ones who don't care, and whose parents don't care, that end up giving the place a bad name.
 
2014-06-01 12:49:05 AM  
I'd suggest personalized tablet education, but that would create a bigger divide than already exists. Those who want to learn would learn even more than their peers until we reach a Morlock vs Eloi situation.
 
2014-06-01 12:53:05 AM  

SubBass49: "...parents love it-especially at the high school level."

Of course they do, they actually know where their kids are.  Problem is that you know teachers wont be paid an extra dime for the extended hours.


The easy solution is to make all kids do sports in High School.

Extra long school day without more classes and they get physical activity.
 
2014-06-01 12:53:46 AM  

MyRandomName: TuteTibiImperes: doglover: Do they even talk to teachers?

I don't think they do. I don't even think these "education reform" people have even BEEN to a school.

Most teachers are log considerably more hours than the scheduled school day.  Depending on how the extra time is spent I could see it being useful, but it should come with a commensurate raise for the staff at the school.

According to bls.gov, teachers work fewer hours in a year than average. fark your raise. If you want one fight against the ever expanding administration that has tripled in size per student since 1980. That is where you need reform to pay teachers more.


The hours worked can vary a ton, though they're almost always considerably more than the official school day.

Teachers are also paid considerably less than other professionals with similar levels of education.

Overblown administrations are a problem in some places.  That, however, has nothing to do with the fact that if you're going to increase someone's hours, they also deserve an increase in compensation.  That isn't just true of teachers, that should apply to any job.

While workplace productivity has increased per worker real earnings have stagnated or declined.  It's time for workers across the board to stop putting up with being asked to do more and in more time without increases in compensation to match.
 
2014-06-01 12:54:29 AM  

MyRandomName: TuteTibiImperes: doglover: Do they even talk to teachers?

I don't think they do. I don't even think these "education reform" people have even BEEN to a school.

Most teachers are log considerably more hours than the scheduled school day.  Depending on how the extra time is spent I could see it being useful, but it should come with a commensurate raise for the staff at the school.

According to bls.gov, teachers work fewer hours in a year than average. fark your raise. If you want one fight against the ever expanding administration that has tripled in size per student since 1980. That is where you need reform to pay teachers more.


Can you link directly to that numbers?  And is it broken down by grade level and subject level?  My wife teaches AP English / AP History in one of the best schools in the state.  Her workload is considerably more than mine during the school year.  Sure she gets 9 weeks off, but my my count she works about the same amount of hours I do during the year.  (She averages between 50 - 60 hours a week, for 42 weeks, I average probably 45- 50 hours over 49 weeks with my vacation).  She makes 1/2 of what I do.

Elementary school teachers probably don't have the same load, but once you get into 11th/12th grade, especially for the AP liberal arts subjects (i.e. History, English, etc), you are doing the equivalent of college coursework, plus you have no TA.  Oddly enough, STEM teachers have it easier, their grading is objective, not subjective.
 
2014-06-01 12:54:39 AM  
Hm, not exactly a bad idea (we're pathetically behind other countries in education), I can't wait for people to attempt to implement this just to complain that teachers want more money for more hours that they're teaching their rugrats.
 
2014-06-01 01:02:12 AM  
When considering which professions are most important to the survival of our republic, Teacher comes in first, a tad above Criminal Defense Attorney.  I'm not sure what is 3rd, perhaps philosopher/author.
 
2014-06-01 01:06:05 AM  
Clearly the best solution -- nation-wide, compulsory boarding school. Never let those kids leave! They'll be better educated and have Harry Potter-like adventures!
 
2014-06-01 01:06:41 AM  
Maybe knock off all the stupid parent teacher meetings every couple of weeks, state test prepping every quarter, IEPs, grading days, teacher planning days, etc. and the kids will get some time in to learn. They took a lot of basic education time away from the kids to deal with the workload the failed policies created.

Lets get rid of the bureaucracy and start teaching kids again before we run out of smart people. We can't expect a potato to wipe our asses or get us the right pills in our twilight.
 
2014-06-01 01:10:45 AM  
I'm ok with a slightly longer school day as long as the day starts later and the extra time is given to breaks and physical activities.  Let the brain take a break and let kids get some energy out.  It doesn't really matter because the way we measure "education" and give money to schools.  Stop teaching how to take tests and start teaching real life.  Oh and keep conservatives the fark out of deciding what is taught.
 
2014-06-01 01:11:47 AM  

MyRandomName: According to bls.gov, teachers work fewer hours in a year than average


And I'm sure that only includes the time they're teaching in the classroom.  Time for grading papers not included, time for lesson planning not included, time for parent conferences not included, time keeping the classroom organized not included, time leading extra curriculars and sports not included.

All jobs have official hours and unofficial hours.  Some jobs like burger flipper the unofficial is zero, some jobs like POTUS it's 24/7 one or the other.  Many teachers have tons of unofficial hours.
 
2014-06-01 01:12:38 AM  

Notabunny: What a terrifically horrible idea




Despite being able to provide extra time for teacher planning and class periods, the 10-and-a-half-hour day wore on both teachers and students, creating teacher burnout and student behavior issues. Since then, the school day has been shortened and now ends at 4:00 p.m. "When we shifted to the shorter school day, along with other changes, we saw much more positive student response to the school and a greater school culture with less behavior issues in the school," he says.
 
2014-06-01 01:13:02 AM  
My 1960s-70s blue-collar-suburban HS went until 4:10 everyday. I describe it to folks today (oldsters, current parents, current teens), and they're often incredulous; me, I never thought twice about it--I thought *everyone" had a similar school day.
 
2014-06-01 01:14:15 AM  

RyansPrivates: MyRandomName: TuteTibiImperes: doglover: Do they even talk to teachers?

I don't think they do. I don't even think these "education reform" people have even BEEN to a school.

Most teachers are log considerably more hours than the scheduled school day.  Depending on how the extra time is spent I could see it being useful, but it should come with a commensurate raise for the staff at the school.

According to bls.gov, teachers work fewer hours in a year than average. fark your raise. If you want one fight against the ever expanding administration that has tripled in size per student since 1980. That is where you need reform to pay teachers more.

Can you link directly to that numbers?  And is it broken down by grade level and subject level?  My wife teaches AP English / AP History in one of the best schools in the state.  Her workload is considerably more than mine during the school year.  Sure she gets 9 weeks off, but my my count she works about the same amount of hours I do during the year.  (She averages between 50 - 60 hours a week, for 42 weeks, I average probably 45- 50 hours over 49 weeks with my vacation).  She makes 1/2 of what I do.

Elementary school teachers probably don't have the same load, but once you get into 11th/12th grade, especially for the AP liberal arts subjects (i.e. History, English, etc), you are doing the equivalent of college coursework, plus you have no TA.  Oddly enough, STEM teachers have it easier, their grading is objective, not subjective.


THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!

/pre-AP/AP teacher
//fark you guys who think we don't earn our pay
 
2014-06-01 01:15:40 AM  
Jesus shiatflinging Christ.

Teach three things:

1) Math
2) Reading & Writing

Have two hours per day of each and an hour for lunch+recess-- thus shortening the school day. But give out more substantial writing/reading assignments and keep a computer lab open (with teachers) for math homework and a language lab (with teachers) open for reading and writing tutoring. Good students can go home early. Students who take longer can seek more interaction with the tutors/teachers.

There's absolutely no farking excuse for kids to not be good at reading, decent at writing, and decent at pre-college math by high school. None. Teach all the other shiat as part of the core lessons (reading/writing) in grade-school and in high-school. An hour spent listening to a "history" class, for example, is an hour that students should be reading history or writing about what they read. They shouldn't be listening to a teacher blabbing about history, they should be reading it. The "facts" that they learn are irrelevant and can be picked-up later when they are actually old enough to give a shiat. Same with science, social studies, government, religion (I went to Catholic school), etc.

What pisses me off tremendously is that I can remember spending a lot of time spent learning "cursive," and how to plot using graph paper, etc. All of that is obsolete, which frees-up *hours* of the day to learn something else. Plus we didn't have computers, so we *had* to visualize all of our mathematics lessons manually. What's a variable? Well this week we're going to learn how to use graph paper in order to show you what a variable is! (ie draw a number line, plot function of a variable, )

fark THAT.

Spend the week teaching the kids  how to plot with Octave, and have them plot functions. They'll never *not* understand what a variable is once they understand plotting a function. Make the "function" the polynomial describing a body under gravitational acceleration. Bam: Physics lesson, math lesson, and a visual intuitive connection between the two.

I would have my farking PhD in mathematics if I had the mathematics visualization capabilities that kids have today back in the 1980s. I see absolutely no excuse for US students to not be *better* at math than I was at their ages. (I didn't "get math" until high school calculus.) Reading and writing, yeah, that hasn't really changed much-- except for spelling and auto-grammar tools. If anything kids need *more* practice writing now than they did pre MS Word.
 
2014-06-01 01:16:38 AM  
artisanlane.com
 
2014-06-01 01:19:19 AM  

tudorgurl: THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!

/pre-AP/AP teacher
//fark you guys who think we don't earn our pay


No, thank you.  My job is making TV and internet work for some people.  Your job has a direct societal benefit on an individual and personal level.  If I don't do my job well, someone may miss out a on cat video or a reality show.  Without teachers, we are royally farked as a society.
 
2014-06-01 01:19:37 AM  
What if... and I'm going off into crazy-town fantasy land here... What if we taught kids facts about history, literature, and science as well as preparing them for life as an adult?
 
2014-06-01 01:20:07 AM  

Satan's Dumptruck Driver: Jesus shiatflinging Christ.

Teach three things:

1) Math
2) Reading & Writing

Have two hours per day of each and an hour for lunch+recess-- thus shortening the school day. But give out more substantial writing/reading assignments and keep a computer lab open (with teachers) for math homework and a language lab (with teachers) open for reading and writing tutoring. Good students can go home early. Students who take longer can seek more interaction with the tutors/teachers.

There's absolutely no farking excuse for kids to not be good at reading, decent at writing, and decent at pre-college math by high school. None. Teach all the other shiat as part of the core lessons (reading/writing) in grade-school and in high-school. An hour spent listening to a "history" class, for example, is an hour that students should be reading history or writing about what they read. They shouldn't be listening to a teacher blabbing about history, they should be reading it. The "facts" that they learn are irrelevant and can be picked-up later when they are actually old enough to give a shiat. Same with science, social studies, government, religion (I went to Catholic school), etc.

What pisses me off tremendously is that I can remember spending a lot of time spent learning "cursive," and how to plot using graph paper, etc. All of that is obsolete, which frees-up *hours* of the day to learn something else. Plus we didn't have computers, so we *had* to visualize all of our mathematics lessons manually. What's a variable? Well this week we're going to learn how to use graph paper in order to show you what a variable is! (ie draw a number line, plot function of a variable, )

fark THAT.

Spend the week teaching the kids  how to plot with Octave, and have them plot functions. They'll never *not* understand what a variable is once they understand plotting a function. Make the "function" the polynomial describing a body under gravitational acceleration. Bam: Physics lesson, math lesson, and a ...


And guess  what? That stuff takes time to grade! :) I should know. I just finished grading final essays for semester exam grades, My counterparts thought I was loony for assigning a paper for a final semester grade. But you know what? That paper will tell me more about what they've learned this year than a stupid, STAAR-like bubble-fest we've been forced to give. If my kids can answer the prompt, make a cogent argument, and back it up with relevant text evidence, then they are good to go. If not, then they will have to take the bubble test. Thankfully, 95% of them are good to go. 

Enough bullshiat testing and retesting and benchmarking and handwringing. Just let me do my damn job!
 
2014-06-01 01:21:15 AM  

RyansPrivates: tudorgurl: THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!

/pre-AP/AP teacher
//fark you guys who think we don't earn our pay

No, thank you.  My job is making TV and internet work for some people.  Your job has a direct societal benefit on an individual and personal level.  If I don't do my job well, someone may miss out a on cat video or a reality show.  Without teachers, we are royally farked as a society.


You betcha. :) Now go give your wife a big hug and a fist-bump from me.
 
2014-06-01 01:22:00 AM  

doglover: Notabunny: What a terrifically horrible idea

Despite being able to provide extra time for teacher planning and class periods, the 10-and-a-half-hour day wore on both teachers and students, creating teacher burnout and student behavior issues. Since then, the school day has been shortened and now ends at 4:00 p.m. "When we shifted to the shorter school day, along with other changes, we saw much more positive student response to the school and a greater school culture with less behavior issues in the school," he says.


Looks like we agree. I'm sorry, I mean it looks like we agree. I knew I had you greened as Garrett Morris for some reason
 
2014-06-01 01:28:56 AM  
popcultureplaypen.files.wordpress.com


pastorchrisjordan.files.wordpress.com


picayune.uclick.com


i0.wp.com
 
2014-06-01 01:31:56 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: Teachers are also paid considerably less than other professionals with similar levels of education.


That's because there is a lot of truth to the statement, "Those who can't do teach".  I know anecdotes is not the the plural of datum, but every teacher I knew in college was an alcoholic dropout from a real major.  The only exception were elementary ed teachers who were alcoholics, but at least they went to college thinking they wanted to be teachers.

"*Insert Subject Here* is hard and I'm failing now that the real classes have started my Soph/Jr. Year.  I'll just use the hours I have already completed to become a *Insert Subject Here* teacher".
 
2014-06-01 01:31:58 AM  
If you really want education to improve, stop treating education like business where little drones (kids) produce numbers (test scores) for their boss (teacher) at the lowest possible price point. THAT'S NOT HOW EDUCATION WORKS!!!!!!
 
2014-06-01 01:33:27 AM  
DRTFA. All I know is my kid gets math OR science each day. And, after the standardized tests are over the homework he gets is whatever me and mom assign him.

/also no recess, seriously? Maybe sometimes, he says. Either music or PE? Why back in my day we had time for all th...
//rant averted
 
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