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(Talking Points Memo)   The Feds decide it's illegal to not snitch   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 89
    More: PSA, Tsarnaevs, United States Attorney, marathon bombing, mujahedeen, dinner  
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10795 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 May 2014 at 4:27 PM (35 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-30 03:03:10 PM  
This seems like an unusual "guilt by association" charge by the feds. I mean come on, anyone with a foreign name and some semblance of association with the bombers are gonna get charged with obstructing?

/yes yes, it's not like that
//but this still seems like bit...unusual, even for Boston feds
 
2014-05-30 03:08:20 PM  
What is their position on stitches?
 
2014-05-30 03:22:24 PM  
This just in: "obstruction of justice," "hindering prosecution," and "making false statements" still crimes.

No idea if the guy is guilty or if these are trumped up, but acting like this is something new is silly.
 
2014-05-30 03:39:05 PM  
Do not talk to Federal law enforcement without your lawyer present.  No exceptions.  And always do it at their place so you can leave when you like.  If you invite them into your house, they're like vampires.

That's free advice.
 
2014-05-30 04:24:28 PM  
Sounds like someone set him up...the bomb.


/got nuthin
 
2014-05-30 04:29:44 PM  
Sorry for the threadjack, but where is this week's quiz?
 
2014-05-30 04:29:49 PM  
Reminds me of the final Seinfeld episode where they all got arrested for NOT helping someone who was getting mugged.
 
2014-05-30 04:31:40 PM  
Well, since we the article doesn't lay out what his actual actions were in regards to the situation, this could be overzealous prosecuting or very reasonable charges.
 
2014-05-30 04:32:10 PM  
I hope the FBI doesn't send that agent with the cush disability pension from California to interview him.
 
2014-05-30 04:34:45 PM  
Well, he did bring them Boston Baked Beans in two pressure cookers....I'm just saying.
 
2014-05-30 04:35:06 PM  
Tell that to Snowden.
 
2014-05-30 04:35:27 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Do not talk to Federal law enforcement without your lawyer present.  No exceptions.  And always do it at their place so you can leave when you like.  If you invite them into your house, they're like vampires.

That's free advice.


I did that once, but I didn't let them in. At the end the FBI Agent said, "Why won't you let me in? You got something to hide?"
Good times
 
2014-05-30 04:35:39 PM  
Destruction of evidence is a step above "not snitching".
 
2014-05-30 04:36:30 PM  
For his sake, I hope he tipped at least 15%
 
2014-05-30 04:39:00 PM  

nmrsnr: This just in: "obstruction of justice," "hindering prosecution," and "making false statements" still crimes.

No idea if the guy is guilty or if these are trumped up, but acting like this is something new is silly.


Don't forget "Misprison of a felony"
 
2014-05-30 04:44:23 PM  
The indictment charges Matanov with one count of destroying, altering, and falsifying records, documents, and tangible objects in a federal investigation -- for trying to get rid of information on his computer -- and three counts of making materially false, fictitious, and fraudulent statements in a federal terrorism investigation.

According to prosecutors, Matanov is facing 20 years in prison for the destruction of evidence charge, and eight years for each false statement count.


You don't have to talk to the popo. But you shouldn't lie to them. Unless you do it through a lawyer. Then it's totes legal.
 
2014-05-30 04:45:18 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Do not talk to Federal law enforcement without your lawyer present.  No exceptions.  And always do it at their place so you can leave when you like.  If you invite them into your house, they're like vampires. They will shoot you in the face and cover it up with a lame story.

That's free advice.


FTFY
 
2014-05-30 04:45:36 PM  
He's lucky they didn't just kill him during the interview.
 
2014-05-30 04:47:45 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Do not talk to Federal law enforcement without your lawyer present.  No exceptions.  And always do it at their place so you can leave when you like.  If you invite them into your house, they're like vampires.

That's free advice.


Unnecessary qualifier struck.
 
2014-05-30 04:48:49 PM  
When we live in a country where police often beat the crap out of someone and charge them with assault, I bet the FBI has no evidence on half those charges or just made them up to apply pressure.
/ never talk to the police/FBI in that kind of situation without a lawyer, make no comments at all even if you think it will help you, it won't, they can convict you with lying to them easier than any other charge
 
2014-05-30 04:51:48 PM  

somedude210: This seems like an unusual "guilt by association" charge by the feds. I mean come on, anyone with a foreign name and some semblance of association with the bombers are gonna get charged with obstructing?

/yes yes, it's not like that
//but this still seems like bit...unusual, even for Boston feds


He's brown
He's Known
He's going down.

That is all they care about.
 
2014-05-30 04:52:36 PM  

uberaverage: He's lucky they didn't just kill him during the interview.


That, too.
 
2014-05-30 04:56:00 PM  

LemSkroob: Tell that to Snowden.


i.imgur.com
 
2014-05-30 04:56:13 PM  

vudukungfu: uberaverage: He's lucky they didn't just kill him during the interview.

That, too.


There's still time for that.
 
2014-05-30 04:57:02 PM  
Nice. No more 5th amendment.

Now you just need to get rid of the 4th,  and getting rid of the second will be possible.
 
2014-05-30 05:00:03 PM  
FTFA: The indictment charges Matanov with one count of destroying, altering, and falsifying records, documents, and tangible objects in a federal investigation -- for trying to get rid of information on his computer -- and three counts of making materially false, fictitious, and fraudulent statements in a federal terrorism investigation.

He wasn't charged with "not snitching" dumbmitter.  He was charged with the ACTIVE STEPS he took to obstruct and impede the investigation.
 
2014-05-30 05:04:40 PM  

uberaverage: He's lucky they didn't just kill him during the interview.


my thoughts exactly. you know it would have been justified. somehow. to somebody.

fusillade762: There's still time for that.


yeah but with the indictment and all the publicity it's less likely.
 
2014-05-30 05:05:14 PM  

fluffy2097: Nice. No more 5th amendment.

Now you just need to get rid of the 4th,  and getting rid of the second will be possible.


The 4th has been dead a while. Which rock have you been living under?
 
2014-05-30 05:06:48 PM  

BKITU: Marcus Aurelius: Do not talk to Federal law enforcement without your lawyer present.  No exceptions.  And always do it at their place so you can leave when you like.  If you invite them into your house, they're like vampires.

That's free advice.

Unnecessary qualifier struck.


Thank you, I stand corrected.
 
2014-05-30 05:07:20 PM  

GDubDub: FTFA: The indictment charges Matanov with one count of destroying, altering, and falsifying records, documents, and tangible objects in a federal investigation -- for trying to get rid of information on his computer -- and three counts of making materially false, fictitious, and fraudulent statements in a federal terrorism investigation.

He wasn't charged with "not snitching" dumbmitter.  He was charged with the ACTIVE STEPS he took to obstruct and impede the investigation.


Yep 20 years for clearing out your internet cache after the cops pay you a visit is legit.
 
2014-05-30 05:10:10 PM  

Walker: The 4th has been dead a while. Which rock have you been living under?


let me have my delusions, thank you. I'm quite aware of reality. :/
 
2014-05-30 05:11:08 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Do not talk to Federal law enforcement without your lawyer present.  No exceptions.  And always do it at their place so you can leave when you like.  If you invite them into your house, they're like vampires.

That's free advice.


They're very intimidating. I had some US Marshals role up on me one night. They were looking for a guy who lived in my building. The second I said I knew him, they were grilling me hard. It was kind of scary. The guy robbed some people and pistol-whipped a girl. I told them that I thought he was a scum-bag. They backed off after that.
 
2014-05-30 05:13:30 PM  

somedude210: This seems like an unusual "guilt by association" charge by the feds. I mean come on, anyone with a foreign name and some semblance of association with the bombers are gonna get charged with obstructing?

/yes yes, it's not like that
//but this still seems like bit...unusual, even for Boston feds


If you cooperate with law enforcement, but don't cooperate fully, you can be charged with obstruction. If you refuse to talk entirely, that pesky fifth amendment becomes a massive shield. Once this guy started cooperating, it became a matter of how much time he was going to get...
 
2014-05-30 05:18:53 PM  
Destruction of evidence, falsifying evidence, impeding an investigation, lying to investigators have all long been felonies.
 
2014-05-30 05:19:33 PM  
Never talk to the cops.

You cannot talk your way out of trouble once they have decided you are guilty. You can only talk your way into proving your guilt to them.

/nevermind that cops cant assign guilt.
//they do anyway.
 
2014-05-30 05:20:26 PM  

lawsucks: Destruction of evidence, falsifying evidence, impeding an investigation, lying to investigators have all long been felonies.


Only if you are poor.

Otherwise that behavior makes you a prime candidate for congressional office.
 
2014-05-30 05:21:50 PM  

netweavr: GDubDub: FTFA: The indictment charges Matanov with one count of destroying, altering, and falsifying records, documents, and tangible objects in a federal investigation -- for trying to get rid of information on his computer -- and three counts of making materially false, fictitious, and fraudulent statements in a federal terrorism investigation.

He wasn't charged with "not snitching" dumbmitter.  He was charged with the ACTIVE STEPS he took to obstruct and impede the investigation.

Yep 20 years for clearing out your internet cache after the cops pay you a visit is legit.


The 20 years is based upon the crime's definition.  It is (usually) the job of the judge, after conviction, and taking into account recommendations of the prosecutor, to determine the severity of the crime.  This will be based upon how material the information destroyed was to the investigation, and to what extent justice was obstructed.

It would have been the same charge for clearing his cache, as it would have been if he had burned an envelope titled "My Boston Bombing and Getaway Plans by T.T."
 
2014-05-30 05:22:48 PM  
Misprision of a felony is an ancient crime.
 
2014-05-30 05:28:28 PM  
Jesus, 20 years for deleting "evidence". Murderers get less.  When he had no involvement with the actual bombing.

Also, what evidence was so important?  What else do prosecutors need to convict the bomber?
 
2014-05-30 05:32:09 PM  
After dinner they went for a run.
 
2014-05-30 05:33:50 PM  

rev. dave: When we live in a country where police often beat the crap out of someone and charge them with assault, I bet the FBI has no evidence on half those charges or just made them up to apply pressure.
/ never talk to the police/FBI in that kind of situation without a lawyer, make no comments at all even if you think it will help you, it won't, they can convict you with lying to them easier than any other charge


You can check-out anytime you like, but you can never leave.

Terrorism. Bomb. Dead and maimed Americans.

That is all.
 
2014-05-30 05:34:20 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Do not talk to Federal law enforcement without your lawyer present.  No exceptions.  And always do it at their place so you can leave when you like.  If you invite them into your house, they're like vampires.

That's free advice.


AYAL?

// are you a lawyer?
 
2014-05-30 05:38:09 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Do not talk to Federal law enforcement without your lawyer present.  No exceptions.  And always do it at their place so you can leave when you like.  If you invite them into your house, they're like vampires.

That's free advice.


Be sure to start out by telling them that you wish to help them in any way you can, but given the serious nature of the matter you want the advice of a lawyer before doing so.  If they say the always popular "what do you have to hide?" comment, reply that it's that prejudgment that makes you require that you speak with a lawyer.

Explain that you do not have a criminal lawyer, but will hire one and have him contact them.  Ask them to please be prepared to forward to the lawyer the questions they wish answered, as that will be a condition of meeting with them.

Be polite, do not answer any substantive questions.  Be firm in your demand for a lawyer.  Repeat that you are eager to help them any way you can.

These guidelines are care of the ACLU pamphlet on speaking with the police or federal law enforcement;  It has been expanded recently to include those with the new HomeLand Security badge.
 
2014-05-30 05:46:06 PM  
Dun cur. Fark that guy.
 
2014-05-30 05:46:47 PM  

netweavr: GDubDub: FTFA: The indictment charges Matanov with one count of destroying, altering, and falsifying records, documents, and tangible objects in a federal investigation -- for trying to get rid of information on his computer -- and three counts of making materially false, fictitious, and fraudulent statements in a federal terrorism investigation.

He wasn't charged with "not snitching" dumbmitter.  He was charged with the ACTIVE STEPS he took to obstruct and impede the investigation.

Yep 20 years for clearing out your internet cache after the cops pay you a visit is legit.


He should have changed the settings to delete the cache on exit, then he would have had plausible deniability.
 
2014-05-30 05:50:20 PM  
The indictment charges Matanov with one count of destroying, altering, and falsifying records, documents, and tangible objects in a federal investigation -- for trying to get rid of information on his computer -- and three counts of making materially false, fictitious, and fraudulent statements in a federal terrorism investigation.

Uhh I don't think so subby. How about READING the article next time.
 
2014-05-30 06:03:27 PM  
He was not trying to obstruct the investigation.
He nearly had a heart attack when he realized that his buddy was involved and the FBI would consider him a suspect because of the association.
He was not trying to protect Tsarnaev.
Rather, he was upset at Tsarnaev and destroying stuff that might link him to the bombers.
Yes he was afraid of guilt by association ....
But thats not all ... it was also cathartic.
More like ripping up photos of your former lover than obstruction of justice.
24.media.tumblr.com

s3.amazonaws.com images.thehollywoodgossip.com
 
2014-05-30 06:04:17 PM  
A lot depends on what the Feds said to him after the interview. It's hard to tell from this article.

If he told them or indicated in some way he had other information, and they said "hang onto that, we may want to see it," and AFTER that he got rid of it, then he's guilty of everything they said.

Otoh, if he spoke to them, dumped the cache without mentioning it beforehand, and when they came back said "yeah, I had that info but I erased it already," then their position is a little more tenuous.

It all depends who told who what and when.
 
2014-05-30 06:04:54 PM  

somedude210: This seems like an unusual "guilt by association" charge by the feds. I mean come on, anyone with a foreign name and some semblance of association with the bombers are gonna get charged with obstructing?


He apparently lied to investigators and destroyed evidence on his computer specifically to hide evidence from them.

That's... pretty textbook obstruction.

If he just hadn't said anything on the assumption that they were trying to associate him with a crime, he'd be covered by the fifth amendment.  If you actually  lie, it no longer protects you.

// Obstruction is really the  light version of what this guy could get... if they judged that he was doing it consciously to cover for the criminals then he could be charged with the actual crime as an accomplice, or with conspiracy if they thought they could demonstrate that the deleted e-mails indicate foreknowledge of the crime.
 
2014-05-30 06:05:26 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: Marcus Aurelius: Do not talk to Federal law enforcement without your lawyer present.  No exceptions.  And always do it at their place so you can leave when you like.  If you invite them into your house, they're like vampires.

That's free advice.

and just like Vampires, you loose all power over them... sunlight, garlic, holy water, even a stake won't touch them once you invite them in... hell, they will even have a reflection in the mirror too!


I hear cutting their heads off still works. I saw that on Supernatural.
 
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