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5973 clicks; posted to Geek » on 30 May 2014 at 1:46 AM (29 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-29 10:48:22 PM  
Even if we eventually had the technology to beam up a person, would you still be you if you were completely disassembled and reassembled at the point of transport? The person on the other side might look like you, have all the memories you do, and for all intents and purposes, be you, but would you still be at the center of that organism? I don't think so and I'm not going to ever volunteer for it.
 
2014-05-29 10:56:21 PM  
yeah, yeah, yeah...whatever.

So when does this work for pizza delivery?
 
2014-05-29 11:27:45 PM  

I_Am_Weasel: yeah, yeah, yeah...whatever.

So when does this work for pizza delivery?


Don't forget the beer

/I'll beam 'em an extra buck as a tip
 
2014-05-30 12:15:15 AM  

Rabid Badger Beaver Weasel: Even if we eventually had the technology to beam up a person, would you still be you if you were completely disassembled and reassembled at the point of transport? The person on the other side might look like you, have all the memories you do, and for all intents and purposes, be you, but would you still be at the center of that organism? I don't think so and I'm not going to ever volunteer for it.


You pretty much didn't read the article.
 
2014-05-30 12:20:45 AM  
People geek out over Harry Potter, and imagine themselves able to lift things or cast spells with a magic wand.  Others revel in the thought of miracles and God's power and works.  Then I read an article like this and am reminded just how much weirder reality really is.
 
2014-05-30 12:22:55 AM  

bdub77: Rabid Badger Beaver Weasel: Even if we eventually had the technology to beam up a person, would you still be you if you were completely disassembled and reassembled at the point of transport? The person on the other side might look like you, have all the memories you do, and for all intents and purposes, be you, but would you still be at the center of that organism? I don't think so and I'm not going to ever volunteer for it.

You pretty much didn't read the article.


Yeah, and if you believe that teleportation of data is the ultimate goal, I've got a bridge to drop on you.
 
2014-05-30 12:36:02 AM  

Rabid Badger Beaver Weasel: bdub77: Rabid Badger Beaver Weasel: Even if we eventually had the technology to beam up a person, would you still be you if you were completely disassembled and reassembled at the point of transport? The person on the other side might look like you, have all the memories you do, and for all intents and purposes, be you, but would you still be at the center of that organism? I don't think so and I'm not going to ever volunteer for it.

You pretty much didn't read the article.

Yeah, and if you believe that teleportation of data is the ultimate goal, I've got a bridge to drop on you.


Why would you worry about teleporting your physical self anywhere when with the appropriate sensors, all the information about distant places can be picked up and transmitted instantly to your future brain-computer interface?
 
2014-05-30 01:12:09 AM  
Yes if they  can get this working teleoperated robotics on mars (in real time)  building habitation  for humans setting up huge swaths of greenhouses to produce food and O2 for human habitation.
This could allow exploration of distant star systems with crew that operate the ships from light years away. real time pilots of drones and robots and no one need be at risk.
 providing this quantum entanglement operates further that 10 feet away. Which I bet it won't.
 
2014-05-30 02:01:22 AM  

Rabid Badger Beaver Weasel: Even if we eventually had the technology to beam up a person, would you still be you if you were completely disassembled and reassembled at the point of transport? The person on the other side might look like you, have all the memories you do, and for all intents and purposes, be you, but would you still be at the center of that organism? I don't think so and I'm not going to ever volunteer for it.


Agreed. This has long been a discussion in sci-fi fandom, along with uploading yourself to a computer brain. I don't believe for a second it's you. Just a copy.
 
2014-05-30 02:04:28 AM  

bdub77: Rabid Badger Beaver Weasel: bdub77: Rabid Badger Beaver Weasel: Even if we eventually had the technology to beam up a person, would you still be you if you were completely disassembled and reassembled at the point of transport? The person on the other side might look like you, have all the memories you do, and for all intents and purposes, be you, but would you still be at the center of that organism? I don't think so and I'm not going to ever volunteer for it.

You pretty much didn't read the article.

Yeah, and if you believe that teleportation of data is the ultimate goal, I've got a bridge to drop on you.

Why would you worry about teleporting your physical self anywhere when with the appropriate sensors, all the information about distant places can be picked up and transmitted instantly to your future brain-computer interface?


Good point. Our consciousness is based on how we perceive the world, which is limited to our meat sack bodies right now. When we start utilizing sensors in remote locations, where does our consciousness lie? Isn't it the sum of all our senses? And if we're used to utilizing remote sensors, we'll be used to disconnecting ourselves from sensors too, and the whole question of teleporting a mind will be moot since it perceives itself to already be there and everywhere else too.
 
2014-05-30 02:04:43 AM  
So, I gather they're not really beaming as much as they have opened hailing frequencies?
 
2014-05-30 02:05:21 AM  
i65.photobucket.com
 
2014-05-30 02:11:28 AM  

gadian: So, I gather they're not really beaming as much as they have opened hailing frequencies?


More like Quantum FTL WiFi.
 
2014-05-30 02:12:26 AM  

Rabid Badger Beaver Weasel: Even if we eventually had the technology to beam up a person, would you still be you if you were completely disassembled and reassembled at the point of transport? The person on the other side might look like you, have all the memories you do, and for all intents and purposes, be you, but would you still be at the center of that organism? I don't think so and I'm not going to ever volunteer for it.


Plus there could be all sorts of things that could happen that would be bad.  Fuzzy on the whole good/bad thing?  Let's see, disintegration mid-beaming, an evil clone, artificial super-aging... things like that.
 
2014-05-30 02:21:34 AM  
farm7.static.flickr.com
>Professor Edward Birack: Let's talk about our beliefs, and what we can learn about them. We believe nature is solid, and time a constant. Matter has substance and time a direction. There is truth in flesh and the solid ground. The wind may be invisible, but it's real. Smoke, fire, water, light - they're different! Not as to stone or steel, but they're tangible. And we assume time is narrow because it is as a clock - one second is one second for everyone! Cause precedes effect - fruit rots, water flows downstream. We're born, we age, we die. The reverse NEVER happens... None of this is true! Say goodbye to classical reality, because our logic collapses on the subatomic level... into ghosts and shadows.
 
2014-05-30 02:22:05 AM  

robohobo: Rabid Badger Beaver Weasel: Even if we eventually had the technology to beam up a person, would you still be you if you were completely disassembled and reassembled at the point of transport? The person on the other side might look like you, have all the memories you do, and for all intents and purposes, be you, but would you still be at the center of that organism? I don't think so and I'm not going to ever volunteer for it.

Agreed. This has long been a discussion in sci-fi fandom, along with uploading yourself to a computer brain. I don't believe for a second it's you. Just a copy.



You are your memories and faculties and other intangibles. What else is there besides "for all intents and purposes"?

Your physical body is going to be replaced anyway. Completely disassembled and reassembled. It's happening to you right now. The teleporter just wouldn't be copying you piecemeal the way ordinary living does - and wouldn't make as many changes in the process of doing so.

(Unless you want changes, of course; making repairs or adding features. Or dropping you into an entirely different physical form on the other side.)

/if by some miracle a teleporter turns out to be possible, even virtually...I'm in
//I'm not going first though; might be longer than you think, dad
 
2014-05-30 02:36:59 AM  
Snotty beamed me twice last night.  It was wonderful.
 
2014-05-30 02:44:13 AM  
They're waiting for you, Gordon.
IN
THE
TEST
CHAMBER.
 
2014-05-30 02:49:34 AM  
moifightclub.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-05-30 02:52:32 AM  

Rabid Badger Beaver Weasel: Even if we eventually had the technology to beam up a person, would you still be you if you were completely disassembled and reassembled at the point of transport? The person on the other side might look like you, have all the memories you do, and for all intents and purposes, be you, but would you still be at the center of that organism? I don't think so and I'm not going to ever volunteer for it.


Technically, that's already happened, and is still happening. There isn't a single part of you that's more than a few months old. All your cells die and are replaced.
 
2014-05-30 03:03:18 AM  

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: robohobo: Rabid Badger Beaver Weasel: Even if we eventually had the technology to beam up a person, would you still be you if you were completely disassembled and reassembled at the point of transport? The person on the other side might look like you, have all the memories you do, and for all intents and purposes, be you, but would you still be at the center of that organism? I don't think so and I'm not going to ever volunteer for it.

Agreed. This has long been a discussion in sci-fi fandom, along with uploading yourself to a computer brain. I don't believe for a second it's you. Just a copy.


You are your memories and faculties and other intangibles. What else is there besides "for all intents and purposes"?

Your physical body is going to be replaced anyway. Completely disassembled and reassembled. It's happening to you right now. The teleporter just wouldn't be copying you piecemeal the way ordinary living does - and wouldn't make as many changes in the process of doing so.

(Unless you want changes, of course; making repairs or adding features. Or dropping you into an entirely different physical form on the other side.)

/if by some miracle a teleporter turns out to be possible, even virtually...I'm in
//I'm not going first though; might be longer than you think, dad

Your brain cells aren't replaced all that much if at all, and certainly not completely. Adult neurogenesis in humans is iffy at best. The brain is where the "self" is.

Suppose a transporter were invented, and you were "beamed" elsewhere. Your body is completely disassembled and re-assembled in the other location. That's still you, right?

Now imagine the exact same scenario with one minor difference: the original "you" here is not disassembled. That part of the process fails. Everything else succeeds: "you" are re-assembled at the destination, complete with memories and such. But the "you" reading this text is still at the departure location, not the destination! Another "you" is at the destination.

Is that guy at the arrival location still you? Or just a copy of you?

How would the success in destroying the original "you" at the departure location make the copy of you at the destination location any more "you" than if the original at the departure location remains intact?
 
2014-05-30 03:05:20 AM  
No, not beaming humans aboard the USS Enterprise, but the teleportation of data.

 And with that my Comcast bill just went up again. 

/shakes tiny fist.
 
2014-05-30 03:18:34 AM  

COMALite J: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: robohobo: Rabid Badger Beaver Weasel: Even if we eventually had the technology to beam up a person, would you still be you if you were completely disassembled and reassembled at the point of transport? The person on the other side might look like you, have all the memories you do, and for all intents and purposes, be you, but would you still be at the center of that organism? I don't think so and I'm not going to ever volunteer for it.

Agreed. This has long been a discussion in sci-fi fandom, along with uploading yourself to a computer brain. I don't believe for a second it's you. Just a copy.


You are your memories and faculties and other intangibles. What else is there besides "for all intents and purposes"?

Your physical body is going to be replaced anyway. Completely disassembled and reassembled. It's happening to you right now. The teleporter just wouldn't be copying you piecemeal the way ordinary living does - and wouldn't make as many changes in the process of doing so.

(Unless you want changes, of course; making repairs or adding features. Or dropping you into an entirely different physical form on the other side.)

/if by some miracle a teleporter turns out to be possible, even virtually...I'm in
//I'm not going first though; might be longer than you think, dad
Your brain cells aren't replaced all that much if at all, and certainly not completely. Adult neurogenesis in humans is iffy at best. The brain is where the "self" is.

Suppose a transporter were invented, and you were "beamed" elsewhere. Your body is completely disassembled and re-assembled in the other location. That's still you, right?

Now imagine the exact same scenario with one minor difference: the original "you" here is not disassembled. That part of the process fails. Everything else succeeds: "you" are re-assembled at the destination, complete with memories and such. But the "you" reading this text is still at the departure location, not the destination! Another " ...


It also brings up all kinds of tricky issues, not the least of which is legality. Also, and I know this is Fark and Fark loves to scoff at such things--the idea of the soul. I'd like to think we have them.

Reminds me of a book  I read years ago. People, for the right price, could upload themselves into a robotic duplicate(most chose younger). The originals were then forced to lived out the rest of their natural lives either in(I forget) a space-station, or on a moonbase, while their duplicates legally claimed their 'self-hood'. I forget who wrote it, other than he was very clearly Canadian and also wrote a series about Earth coming in contact with a parallel Earth populated by advanced Neanderthals. Also he just HAD to include some gay male on male Neanderthal/Human sex in the mix.
 
2014-05-30 03:25:10 AM  
I am only interested in transporting data instantly.
 
2014-05-30 03:32:36 AM  
Well I tried shoving a wiener in the warp drive, but it didn't a do a bit a good. By the vye, would you have a wee bit of mustard up on the bridge.
 
2014-05-30 04:26:37 AM  

robohobo: Rabid Badger Beaver Weasel: Even if we eventually had the technology to beam up a person, would you still be you if you were completely disassembled and reassembled at the point of transport? The person on the other side might look like you, have all the memories you do, and for all intents and purposes, be you, but would you still be at the center of that organism? I don't think so and I'm not going to ever volunteer for it.

Agreed. This has long been a discussion in sci-fi fandom, along with uploading yourself to a computer brain. I don't believe for a second it's you. Just a copy.


Now you're treading the waters of philosophy (see Theseus' Ship)
What is 'you'? You're certainly not the same exact person you were a week ago, since your experience, position in spacetime and body have all changed and are different. You won't be this 'you' next month, or even tomorrow...why would an instantaneous copy be any different?


/I'd worry more about accidental copies of myself running around before I worry about the 'me'-ness of a copy
 
2014-05-30 04:31:32 AM  
I can already do this by staring at goats.
 
2014-05-30 05:10:47 AM  

SpdrJay: I can already do this by staring at goats.


www.popmythology.com
 
2014-05-30 05:16:15 AM  
FTFA:Thanks to the strange properties of entanglement, this allows for that data -- only quantum data, not classical information like messages or even simple bits -- to be teleported seemingly faster than the speed of light.

I asked if this was possible in another quantum thread months ago I was told no. I demand redress!
 
2014-05-30 08:06:53 AM  
*facepalm*

So few people know what quantum teleportation actually is. They are not teleporting matter, you morons.
 
2014-05-30 08:52:17 AM  

Foxxinnia: FTFA:Thanks to the strange properties of entanglement, this allows for that data -- only quantum data, not classical information like messages or even simple bits -- to be teleported seemingly faster than the speed of light.

I asked if this was possible in another quantum thread months ago I was told no. I demand redress!


Technically, if they're able to reverse the spin at will... Wouldn't that be all that was needed for binary data transfer? You could do half-duplex transfer with 2 of these Quibits. One quibit would be the clock bit; switching direction would indicate to the receiver that some data was being sent. The other would spin right or left to indicate 1 or 0.

I guess you would need 2 sets of quibits for full duplex, but why stop there? If it scales, you could potentially have thousands or perhaps millions of parallel connections. Enough bandwidth to send every byte of a file simultaneously.
 
2014-05-30 08:57:14 AM  
Oh, and uh... Patent pending... Patent pending!
 
2014-05-30 09:11:38 AM  
I already have the patent on this.
 
2014-05-30 09:12:31 AM  

Harry_Seldon: Well I tried shoving a wiener in the warp drive, but it didn't a do a bit a good. By the vye, would you have a wee bit of mustard up on the bridge.


Mr Schlock?
 
2014-05-30 09:18:31 AM  

Foxxinnia: FTFA:Thanks to the strange properties of entanglement, this allows for that data -- only quantum data, not classical information like messages or even simple bits -- to be teleported seemingly faster than the speed of light.

I asked if this was possible in another quantum thread months ago I was told no. I demand redress!


I will let a true physics nerd confirm, but I believe the difference between this and faster than light communications is that entanglement lets you transmit information about the state of the electrons (spin, etc) faster than light, but nothing more. So guy on the other end of the world could know instantly "hey, his electron in China must be spinning this way" but you couldn't transmit a message that way.

The reason being that entanglement only works if you are observing the quantum particles, not manipulating them. So if you try to "touch" one and force it to spin one way or the other, it is no longer entangled with its twin in China.

Thus, it becomes impossible to communicate with it because you couldn't create a system that said "if it spins UP, that means 0, if it spins down, that means 1."

Physics nerds- am I correct?
 
2014-05-30 09:32:24 AM  

OceanVortex: Foxxinnia: FTFA:Thanks to the strange properties of entanglement, this allows for that data -- only quantum data, not classical information like messages or even simple bits -- to be teleported seemingly faster than the speed of light.

I asked if this was possible in another quantum thread months ago I was told no. I demand redress!

I will let a true physics nerd confirm, but I believe the difference between this and faster than light communications is that entanglement lets you transmit information about the state of the electrons (spin, etc) faster than light, but nothing more. So guy on the other end of the world could know instantly "hey, his electron in China must be spinning this way" but you couldn't transmit a message that way.

The reason being that entanglement only works if you are observing the quantum particles, not manipulating them. So if you try to "touch" one and force it to spin one way or the other, it is no longer entangled with its twin in China.

Thus, it becomes impossible to communicate with it because you couldn't create a system that said "if it spins UP, that means 0, if it spins down, that means 1."

Physics nerds- am I correct?


No
 
2014-05-30 09:51:24 AM  
Its instantaneous.

At the point of entanglement the superimposed position may be observed at C.

Theoretically an entangled super position observed from 200 light years away would be 200 times C. Because if you were trying to verify the change with a really powerful telescope, you would have to wait 200 years to confirm it.

The further apart you get the "faster" it would appear.
 
2014-05-30 09:55:15 AM  
Oh yes, and qubits are a one off proposition.

Once the superposition is known, It cannot be unknown....
 
2014-05-30 09:56:18 AM  

COMALite J:
Suppose a transporter were invented, and you were "beamed" elsewhere. Your body is completely disassembled and re-assembled in the other location. That's still you, right?

Now imagine the exact same scenario with one minor difference: the original "you" here is not disassembled. That part of the process fails. Everything else succeeds: "you" are re-assembled at the destination, complete with memories and such. But the "you" reading this text is still at the departure location, not the destination! Another "you" is at the destination.

Is that guy at the arrival location still you? Or just a copy of you?

How would the success in destroying the original "you" at the departure location make the copy of you at the destination location any more "you" than if the original at the departure location remains intact?



They're both me - presumably both would have the sense that they were the same person who is typing this message, and as you describe it they would both be correct.


COMALite J: Your brain cells aren't replaced all that much if at all, and certainly not completely. Adult neurogenesis in humans is iffy at best. The brain is where the "self" is.


Okay, fair point.

But if they were gradually replaced at the rate of some other kind of cells, and this change itself were imperceptible, would you really have a wholly different view of teleportation? (And if we're going to be realistic about it, there isn't and never will be a magical transporter that can actually do any of this other shiat either.)
 
2014-05-30 09:57:38 AM  
well that was strange formatting
 
2014-05-30 09:59:37 AM  

bdub77: Rabid Badger Beaver Weasel: Even if we eventually had the technology to beam up a person, would you still be you if you were completely disassembled and reassembled at the point of transport? The person on the other side might look like you, have all the memories you do, and for all intents and purposes, be you, but would you still be at the center of that organism? I don't think so and I'm not going to ever volunteer for it.

You pretty much didn't read the article.


Yeah, but who does?  This is Fark.
 
2014-05-30 10:14:12 AM  

Rabid Badger Beaver Weasel: Even if we eventually had the technology to beam up a person, would you still be you if you were completely disassembled and reassembled at the point of transport? The person on the other side might look like you, have all the memories you do, and for all intents and purposes, be you, but would you still be at the center of that organism? I don't think so and I'm not going to ever volunteer for it.


We're a few decades at least away from having any sort of Seth Brundle-like misadventures. No need to worry about hooking up with Geena Davis, at least not moreso than before.
 
2014-05-30 10:16:08 AM  

Wake Up Sheeple: bdub77: Rabid Badger Beaver Weasel: bdub77: Rabid Badger Beaver Weasel: Even if we eventually had the technology to beam up a person, would you still be you if you were completely disassembled and reassembled at the point of transport? The person on the other side might look like you, have all the memories you do, and for all intents and purposes, be you, but would you still be at the center of that organism? I don't think so and I'm not going to ever volunteer for it.

You pretty much didn't read the article.

Yeah, and if you believe that teleportation of data is the ultimate goal, I've got a bridge to drop on you.

Why would you worry about teleporting your physical self anywhere when with the appropriate sensors, all the information about distant places can be picked up and transmitted instantly to your future brain-computer interface?

Good point. Our consciousness is based on how we perceive the world, which is limited to our meat sack bodies right now. When we start utilizing sensors in remote locations, where does our consciousness lie? Isn't it the sum of all our senses? And if we're used to utilizing remote sensors, we'll be used to disconnecting ourselves from sensors too, and the whole question of teleporting a mind will be moot since it perceives itself to already be there and everywhere else too.


I can smell dark matter?
 
2014-05-30 10:22:36 AM  

Rabid Badger Beaver Weasel: Even if we eventually had the technology to beam up a person, would you still be you if you were completely disassembled and reassembled at the point of transport? The person on the other side might look like you, have all the memories you do, and for all intents and purposes, be you, but would you still be at the center of that organism? I don't think so and I'm not going to ever volunteer for it.


OK McCoy. Whatever you say.
/If it has my memories and personality, it's me. No such thing as a soul.
 
2014-05-30 10:28:07 AM  

COMALite J: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: robohobo: Rabid Badger Beaver Weasel: Even if we eventually had the technology to beam up a person, would you still be you if you were completely disassembled and reassembled at the point of transport? The person on the other side might look like you, have all the memories you do, and for all intents and purposes, be you, but would you still be at the center of that organism? I don't think so and I'm not going to ever volunteer for it.

Agreed. This has long been a discussion in sci-fi fandom, along with uploading yourself to a computer brain. I don't believe for a second it's you. Just a copy.


You are your memories and faculties and other intangibles. What else is there besides "for all intents and purposes"?

Your physical body is going to be replaced anyway. Completely disassembled and reassembled. It's happening to you right now. The teleporter just wouldn't be copying you piecemeal the way ordinary living does - and wouldn't make as many changes in the process of doing so.

(Unless you want changes, of course; making repairs or adding features. Or dropping you into an entirely different physical form on the other side.)

/if by some miracle a teleporter turns out to be possible, even virtually...I'm in
//I'm not going first though; might be longer than you think, dad
Your brain cells aren't replaced all that much if at all, and certainly not completely. Adult neurogenesis in humans is iffy at best. The brain is where the "self" is.

Suppose a transporter were invented, and you were "beamed" elsewhere. Your body is completely disassembled and re-assembled in the other location. That's still you, right?

Now imagine the exact same scenario with one minor difference: the original "you" here is not disassembled. That part of the process fails. Everything else succeeds: "you" are re-assembled at the destination, complete with memories and such. But the "you" reading this text is still at the departure location, not the destination! Another " ...


Same as having a clone. I wouldn't mind having an identical twin running around.
 
2014-05-30 10:33:32 AM  

whosits_112: COMALite J: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: robohobo: Rabid Badger Beaver Weasel: Even if we eventually had the technology to beam up a person, would you still be you if you were completely disassembled and reassembled at the point of transport? The person on the other side might look like you, have all the memories you do, and for all intents and purposes, be you, but would you still be at the center of that organism? I don't think so and I'm not going to ever volunteer for it.

Agreed. This has long been a discussion in sci-fi fandom, along with uploading yourself to a computer brain. I don't believe for a second it's you. Just a copy.


You are your memories and faculties and other intangibles. What else is there besides "for all intents and purposes"?

Your physical body is going to be replaced anyway. Completely disassembled and reassembled. It's happening to you right now. The teleporter just wouldn't be copying you piecemeal the way ordinary living does - and wouldn't make as many changes in the process of doing so.

(Unless you want changes, of course; making repairs or adding features. Or dropping you into an entirely different physical form on the other side.)

/if by some miracle a teleporter turns out to be possible, even virtually...I'm in
//I'm not going first though; might be longer than you think, dad
Your brain cells aren't replaced all that much if at all, and certainly not completely. Adult neurogenesis in humans is iffy at best. The brain is where the "self" is.

Suppose a transporter were invented, and you were "beamed" elsewhere. Your body is completely disassembled and re-assembled in the other location. That's still you, right?

Now imagine the exact same scenario with one minor difference: the original "you" here is not disassembled. That part of the process fails. Everything else succeeds: "you" are re-assembled at the destination, complete with memories and such. But the "you" reading this text is still at the departure location, not the destination! Another " ...

Same as having a clone. I wouldn't mind having an identical twin running around.


If you had sex with your clone, would it be gay? Or just really advanced masturbation?
 
2014-05-30 10:50:47 AM  

OceanVortex: Foxxinnia: FTFA:Thanks to the strange properties of entanglement, this allows for that data -- only quantum data, not classical information like messages or even simple bits -- to be teleported seemingly faster than the speed of light.

I asked if this was possible in another quantum thread months ago I was told no. I demand redress!

I will let a true physics nerd confirm, but I believe the difference between this and faster than light communications is that entanglement lets you transmit information about the state of the electrons (spin, etc) faster than light, but nothing more. So guy on the other end of the world could know instantly "hey, his electron in China must be spinning this way" but you couldn't transmit a message that way.

The reason being that entanglement only works if you are observing the quantum particles, not manipulating them. So if you try to "touch" one and force it to spin one way or the other, it is no longer entangled with its twin in China.

Thus, it becomes impossible to communicate with it because you couldn't create a system that said "if it spins UP, that means 0, if it spins down, that means 1."

Physics nerds- am I correct?


Yes, you are.
Ftfa:
"Thanks to the strange properties of entanglement, this allows for that data -- only quantum data, not classical information like messages or even simple bits -- to be teleported seemingly faster than the speed of light."

"Quantum teleportation is not teleportation in the sense one might think. It involves achieving a certain set of parameters that then allow properties of one quantum system to get tangled up with another so that observations are reflected simultaneously, thereby "teleporting" the information from one place to another"

You can't encode information on the particles.
 
2014-05-30 11:01:09 AM  

Gonz: whosits_112: COMALite J: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: robohobo: Rabid Badger Beaver Weasel: Even if we eventually had the technology to beam up a person, would you still be you if you were completely disassembled and reassembled at the point of transport? The person on the other side might look like you, have all the memories you do, and for all intents and purposes, be you, but would you still be at the center of that organism? I don't think so and I'm not going to ever volunteer for it.

Agreed. This has long been a discussion in sci-fi fandom, along with uploading yourself to a computer brain. I don't believe for a second it's you. Just a copy.


You are your memories and faculties and other intangibles. What else is there besides "for all intents and purposes"?

Your physical body is going to be replaced anyway. Completely disassembled and reassembled. It's happening to you right now. The teleporter just wouldn't be copying you piecemeal the way ordinary living does - and wouldn't make as many changes in the process of doing so.

(Unless you want changes, of course; making repairs or adding features. Or dropping you into an entirely different physical form on the other side.)

/if by some miracle a teleporter turns out to be possible, even virtually...I'm in
//I'm not going first though; might be longer than you think, dad
Your brain cells aren't replaced all that much if at all, and certainly not completely. Adult neurogenesis in humans is iffy at best. The brain is where the "self" is.

Suppose a transporter were invented, and you were "beamed" elsewhere. Your body is completely disassembled and re-assembled in the other location. That's still you, right?

Now imagine the exact same scenario with one minor difference: the original "you" here is not disassembled. That part of the process fails. Everything else succeeds: "you" are re-assembled at the destination, complete with memories and such...

Same as having a clone. I wouldn't mind having an identical twin running around.

If you had sex with your clone, would it be gay? Or just really advanced masturbation?

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: They're both me - presumably both would have the sense that they were the same person who is typing this message, and as you describe it they would both be correct.

Okay, you and your identical twin / clone / transporter duplicate are out walking together, and a known serial murderer comes up, whips out a gun, and says that he will now kill one of you, then points to you (not your copy) and asks you to pick which one dies on the spot in some pain. Which do you choose?

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: COMALite J: Your brain cells aren't replaced all that much if at all, and certainly not completely. Adult neurogenesis in humans is iffy at best. The brain is where the "self" is.

Okay, fair point.

But if they were gradually replaced at the rate of some other kind of cells, and this change itself were imperceptible, would you really have a wholly different view of teleportation? (And if we're going to be realistic about it, there isn't and never will be a magical transporter that can actually do any of this other shiat either.)

See above.
 
2014-05-30 11:04:17 AM  

bdub77: Rabid Badger Beaver Weasel: bdub77: Rabid Badger Beaver Weasel: Even if we eventually had the technology to beam up a person, would you still be you if you were completely disassembled and reassembled at the point of transport? The person on the other side might look like you, have all the memories you do, and for all intents and purposes, be you, but would you still be at the center of that organism? I don't think so and I'm not going to ever volunteer for it.

You pretty much didn't read the article.

Yeah, and if you believe that teleportation of data is the ultimate goal, I've got a bridge to drop on you.

Why would you worry about teleporting your physical self anywhere when with the appropriate sensors, all the information about distant places can be picked up and transmitted instantly to your future brain-computer interface?


Because it would sure as hell make the morning commute a lot easier?

We're absolutely never going to stop physically going places. People will live in different places, and we're going to want to visit other people. We also like to occasionally explore new environments. Maybe you like staying locked in your mother's basement, but the rest of us like to travel on occasion.

Teleporting places would make that a hell of a lot faster and easier.
 
2014-05-30 11:27:23 AM  

cptjeff: Because it would sure as hell make the morning commute a lot easier?

We're absolutely never going to stop physically going places. People will live in different places, and we're going to want to visit other people. We also like to occasionally explore new environments. Maybe you like staying locked in your mother's basement, but the rest of us like to travel on occasion.

Teleporting places would make that a hell of a lot faster and easier.


That's probably because you don't understand what I mean by BCI. Imagine, much like the Matrix, you could simply load yourself into a location. Smells, sight, touch, everything is brain perceptions through your body's sensors (nerves). So why do you even need to travel?

Physical movement will happen and a contingent of human beings such as yourself simply will not want the experience of being alive in a simulation, but travel, in particular intrastellar travel, is going to be slow and tedious and frankly unnecessary. With quantum communication you could potentially explore the galaxy from anywhere. And as discussed before, the notion of teleportation does raise the question of continuation of consciousness and soul.

Quantum communication would mean you could connect instantly across vast distances, no lag. There are huge implications there.
 
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