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(USA Today)   Not News: Google's diversity stats match up with average college Computer Science class demographics. Still Not News: This article trying to make it news   (usatoday.com) divider line 21
    More: Obvious, Google, diversity, computing, largest companies, demographics, PBS NewsHour, colleges  
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517 clicks; posted to Geek » on 29 May 2014 at 2:02 PM (25 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



21 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-05-29 11:56:44 AM  
I guess that would make sense if Google only employed computer scientists, and not legions of salespeople and administrative staff as befits a global company.
 
2014-05-29 12:10:04 PM  

naughtyrev: I guess that would make sense if Google only employed computer scientists, and not legions of salespeople and administrative staff as befits a global company.


"Eighty-three percent of Google's tech workers internationally are male. For non-tech jobs, the number is 52%. Its leadership is made of up 79% men."


Currently, 12% of computer science degrees are conferred to women, and, if anything, the 17% employment rate among women in those tech jobs shows that Google either prefers to hire women over men, or women who do graduate with a degree in computer science are more qualified than their male counterparts. I prefer to believe the latter.

If anything it isn't a Google-related issue, but rather the unfortunate stigma that surrounds STEM and women in our society.
 
2014-05-29 12:13:46 PM  

video man: naughtyrev: I guess that would make sense if Google only employed computer scientists, and not legions of salespeople and administrative staff as befits a global company.

"Eighty-three percent of Google's tech workers internationally are male. For non-tech jobs, the number is 52%. Its leadership is made of up 79% men."


Currently, 12% of computer science degrees are conferred to women, and, if anything, the 17% employment rate among women in those tech jobs shows that Google either prefers to hire women over men, or women who do graduate with a degree in computer science are more qualified than their male counterparts. I prefer to believe the latter.

If anything it isn't a Google-related issue, but rather the unfortunate stigma that surrounds STEM and women in our society.


You didn't actually expect me to read the article, did you?  :)
 
2014-05-29 12:19:04 PM  

naughtyrev: video man: naughtyrev: I guess that would make sense if Google only employed computer scientists, and not legions of salespeople and administrative staff as befits a global company.

"Eighty-three percent of Google's tech workers internationally are male. For non-tech jobs, the number is 52%. Its leadership is made of up 79% men."


Currently, 12% of computer science degrees are conferred to women, and, if anything, the 17% employment rate among women in those tech jobs shows that Google either prefers to hire women over men, or women who do graduate with a degree in computer science are more qualified than their male counterparts. I prefer to believe the latter.

If anything it isn't a Google-related issue, but rather the unfortunate stigma that surrounds STEM and women in our society.

You didn't actually expect me to read the article, did you?  :)


I'll concede I only read half of it.
 
2014-05-29 12:19:06 PM  
What seems to be missing (or lumped into some other group), is the Middle Eastern demographic.  They made up a significant proportion of students in any of my computer science classes. I realize those totals don't add up to 100%, but the remaining 3%-5% in the various stats seems a bit low.
 
2014-05-29 12:29:37 PM  

utsagrad123: What seems to be missing (or lumped into some other group), is the Middle Eastern demographic.  They made up a significant proportion of students in any of my computer science classes. I realize those totals don't add up to 100%, but the remaining 3%-5% in the various stats seems a bit low.


Really? At my school Middle Easterners are almost always business majors. 

/Also, Middle Eastern peoples are often thrown under "White"
 
2014-05-29 12:51:01 PM  

video man: utsagrad123: What seems to be missing (or lumped into some other group), is the Middle Eastern demographic.  They made up a significant proportion of students in any of my computer science classes. I realize those totals don't add up to 100%, but the remaining 3%-5% in the various stats seems a bit low.

Really? At my school Middle Easterners are almost always business majors.

/Also, Middle Eastern peoples are often thrown under "White"


I don't have exact numbers, but if I were to guess any of my classes were about 40% white, 20% asian, 20% middle eastern, 15% hispanic, 5% black/other.

I went to school in San Antonio, so the greater hispanic representation is definitely not surprising.

Another thing I noticed, as far as gender goes, the majority of the females were also part of other minority groups. There were only a few white females.

These numbers were based on my memory of 2002-2006. So I could be off, that's just how I remember it breaking down.
 
2014-05-29 02:08:18 PM  
Google made it news, they released the data.
 
2014-05-29 02:22:10 PM  
Is it just me, or are these criticisms about lack of diversity leveled at tech industries far more than any other industry, including ones that are less diverse? Am I simply missing the articles bemoaning the lack of diversity in jobs like pipe fitters, heavy-duty mechanics, electricians, et cetera?
 
2014-05-29 02:24:54 PM  

naughtyrev: I guess that would make sense if Google only employed computer scientists, and not legions of salespeople and administrative staff as befits a global company.


The article cites "tech workers"
 
2014-05-29 02:59:48 PM  

SeriousGeorge: Is it just me, or are these criticisms about lack of diversity leveled at tech industries far more than any other industry, including ones that are less diverse? Am I simply missing the articles bemoaning the lack of diversity in jobs like pipe fitters, heavy-duty mechanics, electricians, et cetera?


People make more money in CS/IT than in many other careers, so there's an effort to get a traditionally underrepresented group into such careers. For different reasons, there are efforts to get more men into elementary education and childcare. Getting women into CS/IT has been far more effective than the latter, once again for different reasons.
 
2014-05-29 03:32:05 PM  
Stats must be made up.

There are no indian workers in any of them, and they compose a significant portion of any large IT operation.
 
2014-05-29 03:34:59 PM  

fluffy2097: Stats must be made up.

There are no indian workers in any of them, and they compose a significant portion of any large IT operation.


They are sometimes folded into the Asian designation, which would make even more sense why that number is so high.
 
2014-05-29 04:30:09 PM  
What about the lack of diversity in the NBA?   Wouldn't the product be so much better with more white guys hustling and showing grit and the return of the set shot?
 
2014-05-29 05:44:09 PM  

Lord Dimwit: there are efforts to get more men into elementary education and childcare


Not a smart move these days. Given that any adult male being around children is going to cause at least a handful of parents to automatically assume 
"pedophile", it can be pretty dangerous to be a male in any sort of childcare environment. The steps you have to take to avoid that, like always having a female colleague in the room and being extra careful with documentation etc, are just a pain.  My first major was actually music education, as I had already spent a good 6 years teaching high school drumlines as a part time job. But I eventually switched majors as I didn't want to do all the other bullshiat associated with being an actual teacher. I'mg glad I did, and not just for that. All it takes is one female freshman to make up some harassment complaint because you gave her an F to ruin your career or life. Not worth it.

As for "diversity" in STEM fields, well in the end that's up to each person to decide what they want to do. You cannot force minorities to take these classes and jobs just to check the diversity box. And hiring people who can't do the job to check the box is a bad move too. So until more females or minorities actually *want* to get into engineering and the like, this is what we get. It's the same reason behind the pay gap myth. Women on average make less because they  choose jobs that pay less. They make the conscious free choice not to pursue the higher paying jobs because those jobs often require long hours, more overtime, and can be more dangerous or strenuous. Men generally find the higher pay to be worth it. Women generally don't. It's their choice.
 
2014-05-29 05:52:31 PM  

Lord Dimwit: SeriousGeorge: Is it just me, or are these criticisms about lack of diversity leveled at tech industries far more than any other industry, including ones that are less diverse? Am I simply missing the articles bemoaning the lack of diversity in jobs like pipe fitters, heavy-duty mechanics, electricians, et cetera?

People make more money in CS/IT than in many other careers, so there's an effort to get a traditionally underrepresented group into such careers. For different reasons, there are efforts to get more men into elementary education and childcare. Getting women into CS/IT has been far more effective than the latter, once again for different reasons.


It is true though that I hear a lot more about diversity in tech than I do in other segregated high-paying fields like banking.
 
2014-05-29 09:56:30 PM  
In other news, 80% of those employed in early childhood education are female.

/inequality outrage!!!11!!
 
2014-05-29 10:15:51 PM  

SeriousGeorge: Is it just me, or are these criticisms about lack of diversity leveled at tech industries far more than any other industry, including ones that are less diverse? Am I simply missing the articles bemoaning the lack of diversity in jobs like pipe fitters, heavy-duty mechanics, electricians, et cetera?


No one gives a shiat about manual labor with a high risk of injury or death. It's ok for men to be in the crap jobs.
 
2014-05-29 10:57:38 PM  

Electrify: In other news, 80% of those employed in early childhood education are female.

/inequality outrage!!!11!!




I know I'm late to this thread, but I know why so many women are working in early childhood education.

It's because guys don't want to work in early childhood education.

But, speaking as a female Director-level STEM scientist in a small but busy biotech and also an academic professor, I can tell you one of the reasons women don't enter competition for STEM jobs, and one of those reasons is the bullshiat.

Hours of sitting on my ass writing code is NOT exciting. It's isolating and boring and needs to be done, but I hate it though the advanced stuff makes me my living. I much rather be 'social' in an open laboratory with other techs, but no, I'm in a closed office writing statistical code for big data sets. Boooring.

The other level of bullshiat is the inability of people -- mostly guys -- who fail to recognize that 20 years of coding experience and a PhD makes me pretty much an expert at what I do.

Case in point:

Me; "Yea, I can code in a pedigree chart into our genotypic viewer. I need to codify the family relationships first -- so that we have a system or ontology for family relationships that is consistent and follows the genetics conventions over generation levels. THere are existing libraries in R or Python that can handle that. First I'll handle how we'll store and manage those data and relationships and how they'll work with pedigree software and then i'll get to the actual charts up on our pages."

Them: "Maybe you should look at other people's software to see how they do it."

Me: "I'm familiar with pedigree charts..."

Them: "But look at this table, see how they have family relationships with mothers listed with children?"

Me: "Yes, that's PED file format. I'm familiar -- you might remember I've used genetics software for genetics analysis for many years. That's not quite what I'm talking about. We just need a consistent way of labeling individual and generational data, maybe in integer lookup tables as a simple case -- and PED file format is a bit overkill for what we need."

Them: "Wait -- I found some great software for the iPad. Maybe you can use this on the webpage."

Me: "That's an app. Look, it's no problem putting up a pedigree chart as soon as I put in a self-consistent system here."

Them: "Well, I'm only trying to be helpful."


Repeat ad nauseum.

Look, guys, I know you're trying to be helpful. And that you may forget I've got as much experience as I do, even though I authored, did most of the coding on, and run the sum total of all your scientific informatics every day that helps you effortlessly do the things you do.

But for goodness sake, let me do my job and stop trying to HELP.

And yea, guys, imagine you are always trying to be 'helped' by all the guys around you. Helpfully. Every day. Sometimes like you're an idiot.

Sometimes I can be an idiot, but most of the times I'm ok, and I don't need the help.

Women get sick of that crap.
 
2014-05-29 11:15:00 PM  
In terms of racial diversity, the company overall is 61% white, 30%, Asian, 3%, Hispanic, and 2%, black.

This is an outrage!

Only 70% of google's workforce is non-asian, while the overall non-asian population is 90%.  This proves that Google is racist against non-asians.  We need to lower that asian percentage down to 10%.  Probably google should fire 2/3 of their asians.

At least, I think that's the point of focusing on diversity.  Am I doing this right?
 
2014-05-30 02:37:42 PM  
I went to the dentist last week and was contemplating while looking at a group photo of the ten or so employees why the only male in the picture was one of the dentists (the other dentist is his wife) and how I never see male dental assistants, total clam bake. and how while I got my CompSci degree it was a sausage fest (UW Madison so yeah, the campus had lots women but the only sausagier degree was physics) and now I work for a large semiconductor company and it is very male. there are certainly women but I would be shocked if the number were greater than 15%.

I am not sure there is a simple solution that would lead to a more balanced sausage:clam ratio in both fields but I guess my take away is this: if you have a daughter you should expose her to the beauty of math and science and encourage that she pursue it. if you have a son you should explain that if he goes to school to be a dental assistant he will be totally unopposed for all that pussy.
 
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