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(BBC-US)   France finds itself in a €14 billion tax black hole, after their tax accountants sacre bleu it   (bbc.com ) divider line
    More: Scary, Prime Minister of France, Elysee Palace, French economy, Francois Hollande, corporation tax, Gerard Depardieu, euros, French government  
•       •       •

6899 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 May 2014 at 6:46 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-28 06:23:24 PM  
Does this make them cheese-eating non-spender monkeys?
 
2014-05-28 06:48:35 PM  
FTA:  "the Elysee Palace's forecasts of tax revenue in 2013 were so wildly inaccurate that they cast doubt on its forecasts for this year. It added the forecasts were overly optimistic and based on inaccurate projections."

Just like AGW.
 
2014-05-28 06:49:01 PM  
The accountants were le tired.
 
2014-05-28 06:51:55 PM  
Something smells fishy.
 
2014-05-28 06:53:27 PM  
merde
 
2014-05-28 06:54:27 PM  
Hollande is too busy riding his scooter to his mistresses' house for a fark, instead of running France. 11% unemployment? He should be voted out next election.
 
2014-05-28 06:57:37 PM  
quick, someone call Thomas Picketty!
 
2014-05-28 06:59:19 PM  

Turfshoe: The accountants were le tired.


Well then take a nap.


THEN FIRE ZE MISSILES!!!
 
2014-05-28 06:59:51 PM  
Gerard Depardeiue left?

Game over. Last one out please kill the lights.
 
2014-05-28 07:00:41 PM  
The original French government figures would have assumed some growth in the economy. We've had the same thing in the UK. Government cuts AND tax hikes, but with the deficit refusing to come down due to lack of growth.
 
2014-05-28 07:02:35 PM  

rkiller1: FTA:  "the Elysee Palace's forecasts of tax revenue in 2013 were so wildly inaccurate that they cast doubt on its forecasts for this year. It added the forecasts were overly optimistic and based on inaccurate projections."

Just like AGW.


True dat
 
2014-05-28 07:05:12 PM  
"The income tax threshold for France's wealthiest citizens was raised to 75% last year, prompting some French citizens, including the actor Gerard Depardieu, to leave the country and seek citizenship elsewhere in Europe. "


Sacre' merde!
 
2014-05-28 07:07:33 PM  
It is tempting to raise tax rates, but the entities that are being taxed adjust their behavior to deal with the increased rate of tax.  Perhaps the combination of increased black market activity and wealthier people leaving for other places has an impact on the amount of revenue the government can squeeze out of the populace.
 
2014-05-28 07:10:24 PM  

ptpark: It is tempting to raise tax rates, but the entities that are being taxed adjust their behavior to deal with the increased rate of tax.  Perhaps the combination of increased black market activity and wealthier people leaving for other places has an impact on the amount of revenue the government can squeeze out of the populace.


Please stop, just stop injecting logic here.  Everyone knows that if you simply tax the filthy rich, all debt instantly disappears.  Sheeeesh!
 
2014-05-28 07:14:51 PM  

rkiller1: ptpark: It is tempting to raise tax rates, but the entities that are being taxed adjust their behavior to deal with the increased rate of tax.  Perhaps the combination of increased black market activity and wealthier people leaving for other places has an impact on the amount of revenue the government can squeeze out of the populace.

Please stop, just stop injecting logic here.  Everyone knows that if you simply tax the filthy rich, all debt instantly disappears.  Sheeeesh!


Well that settles it. If taxes go up one bit from their current 50 year lows, the world will explode.
 
2014-05-28 07:16:54 PM  
Pfft, amateurs. Raise taxes on the rich. Problem solved.
 
2014-05-28 07:19:50 PM  
Maybe they can get Switzerland to give them a loan.
 
2014-05-28 07:19:55 PM  

GDubDub: Gerard Depardeiue left?

Game over. Last one out please kill the lights.


Wasn't he a wife-beater? Girlfriend-beater? Something like that; anyway, he hits women. Never liked him after hearing that.
 
2014-05-28 07:20:13 PM  

dpzum1: "The income tax threshold for France's wealthiest citizens was raised to 75% last year, prompting some French citizens, including the actor Gerard Depardieu, to leave the country and seek citizenship elsewhere in Europe. "


Sacre' merde!


Presumably Monaco or some other tax shelter nation?
 
2014-05-28 07:24:21 PM  

Kumana Wanalaia: rkiller1: ptpark: It is tempting to raise tax rates, but the entities that are being taxed adjust their behavior to deal with the increased rate of tax.  Perhaps the combination of increased black market activity and wealthier people leaving for other places has an impact on the amount of revenue the government can squeeze out of the populace.

Please stop, just stop injecting logic here.  Everyone knows that if you simply tax the filthy rich, all debt instantly disappears.  Sheeeesh!

Well that settles it. If taxes go up one bit from their current 50 year lows, the world will explode.


Would. You. Stop. It.

The repeated appearance of facts and sanity in this thread is leaving me disoriented. Where's the whaargarbl Fark I know so well?
 
2014-05-28 07:25:05 PM  
How will their military afford their fancy uniforms and the obligatory white flags now?
 
2014-05-28 07:30:10 PM  

OdradekRex: How will their military afford their fancy uniforms and the obligatory white flags now?


Dual-purpose underwear.

www.warbirdaeropress.com
 
2014-05-28 07:40:24 PM  

dpzum1: "The income tax threshold for France's wealthiest citizens was raised to 75% last year, prompting some French citizens, including the actor Gerard Depardieu, to leave the country and seek citizenship elsewhere in Europe. "


Sacre' merde!


I've been told many times on Fark that cranking up taxes on the rich will solve all our problems and doesn't result in the rich moving away and a shortage of tax receipts.  This story must be a lie.
 
2014-05-28 07:41:55 PM  
Mr Hollande has already said he will not slow the pace of deficit reduction, adding France "cannot live with such heavy debt".

Hmmm... obsessing about debt during a recession. Now where have I heard that one before...
 
2014-05-28 07:42:05 PM  

Whatchoo Talkinbout: Pfft, amateurs. Raise taxes on the rich. Problem solved.


It would be nice if revenue could be significantly increased by increasing tax rates, but the problem for the government is that increasing the rate of tax changes people's behavior.  Events such as Gérard Depardieu leaving probably don't have much real effect on the bottom line, but the sum of many individuals changing where they live or how they do business has an effect on collected revenue.   François Hollande promised that he would raise taxes on the wealthy:

« Le  27 février 2012, en pleine campagne présidentielle, le candidat socialiste a pourtant créé la surprise en promettant un taux d'imposition à 75 % pour la part des revenus dépassant 1 million par an »   ( le Figaro, 20131031)

So he promised he would crank up the taxes and he did - maybe as a sop to the people who are less wealthy.  Maybe he doesn't get more money, but at least there's the appearance of making the rich pay more.
 
2014-05-28 07:42:33 PM  
There goes my 401k and the stock market tomorrow

Thanks, surrender monkeys!!
 
2014-05-28 07:46:39 PM  

brimed03: Kumana Wanalaia: rkiller1: ptpark: It is tempting to raise tax rates, but the entities that are being taxed adjust their behavior to deal with the increased rate of tax.  Perhaps the combination of increased black market activity and wealthier people leaving for other places has an impact on the amount of revenue the government can squeeze out of the populace.

Please stop, just stop injecting logic here.  Everyone knows that if you simply tax the filthy rich, all debt instantly disappears.  Sheeeesh!

Well that settles it. If taxes go up one bit from their current 50 year lows, the world will explode.

Would. You. Stop. It.

The repeated appearance of facts and sanity in this thread is leaving me disoriented. Where's the whaargarbl Fark I know so well?


Here it is:

ATLAS SHRUGGED SHEEPLE -- ITS A BOOK AN U SHULD READ IT IT OPENED MY MIND TO HOW THINGS ARE AND LIBTARDS ARE GOING TO RUIN THE WORLD WITH THE'RE DET. I SHOULD KNOW I STUDDIED AUSTRIAN ECONOMIC THEORY ON WIKIPEEDIA.

Better?
 
2014-05-28 07:46:42 PM  

ptpark: It is tempting to raise tax rates, but the entities that are being taxed adjust their behavior to deal with the increased rate of tax.  Perhaps the combination of increased black market activity and wealthier people leaving for other places has an impact on the amount of revenue the government can squeeze out of the populace.


But socialism is great tax all the rich it will be fine. What you mean the rich people are leaving France but but...
 
2014-05-28 07:47:52 PM  
If the Laffer Curve has any truth to it (and I'm skeptical) Hollande pushed it to the right side. On the other hand, in the US it might be on the left side. In either case, tax rates are suboptimal for maximizing revenue while minimizing changes in behavior.

Just goes to show that even the French have limits when it comes to tax rates.
 
2014-05-28 07:49:29 PM  

praymantis: ptpark: It is tempting to raise tax rates, but the entities that are being taxed adjust their behavior to deal with the increased rate of tax.  Perhaps the combination of increased black market activity and wealthier people leaving for other places has an impact on the amount of revenue the government can squeeze out of the populace.

But socialism is great tax all the rich it will be fine. What you mean the rich people are leaving France but but...


The obvious solution is to impose a Leaving France tax. (Which I think they did.) Or maybe create a world government to tax everybody so you can't get a way from it. Because I there is anything I have learned is that you can never get taxes high enough to satisfy those who don't actually pay taxes or only pay a little bit.
 
2014-05-28 07:56:42 PM  
Give me a percentage, does this actually matter or is this lost in the noise.  Yes fix it, but don't freak out about it.
 
2014-05-28 07:57:16 PM  
Well, no one saw that coming.
 
2014-05-28 07:58:23 PM  
So lemme see if I got this straight in muh head:

30 hour work weeks, 3 months off, and being dicks to others makes for a shiatty tax base?

Raises taxes on the rich to 75% and you're shocked they leave?

Socialism works sheeple!!!!
 
2014-05-28 08:00:07 PM  

dpzum1: "The income tax threshold for France's wealthiest citizens was raised to 75% last year, prompting some French citizens, including the actor Gerard Depardieu, to leave the country and seek citizenship elsewhere in Europe. "


Sacre' merde!


Exactly.  They based it on the liberal fantasy that tax hikes have no consequences beyond more revenue.
 
2014-05-28 08:00:39 PM  
So $19 billion dollars?  That's about 2 weeks worth for us in FY14.
 
2014-05-28 08:00:48 PM  

brimed03: GDubDub: Gerard Depardeiue left?

Game over. Last one out please kill the lights.

Wasn't he a wife-beater? Girlfriend-beater? Something like that; anyway, he hits women. Never liked him after hearing that.


Only if they were uppity.
 
2014-05-28 08:04:14 PM  
The French economy saw zero growth in the first three months of 2014, compared with 0.2% growth three months earlier.

It's stopped moving, now subsidize it.
 
2014-05-28 08:12:55 PM  

Loren: dpzum1: "The income tax threshold for France's wealthiest citizens was raised to 75% last year, prompting some French citizens, including the actor Gerard Depardieu, to leave the country and seek citizenship elsewhere in Europe. "


Sacre' merde!

Exactly.  They based it on the liberal fantasy that tax hikes have no consequences beyond more revenue.


I wouldn't call "liberal" economics a fantasy, mearly because they are willing to acknowledgement that money has marginal utility, and that raising tax rates on the wealthy is less likely to cause economic harm, than increasing them on lower income earners...
 
2014-05-28 08:14:16 PM  

praymantis: ptpark: It is tempting to raise tax rates, but the entities that are being taxed adjust their behavior to deal with the increased rate of tax.  Perhaps the combination of increased black market activity and wealthier people leaving for other places has an impact on the amount of revenue the government can squeeze out of the populace.

But socialism is great tax all the rich it will be fine. What you mean the rich people are leaving France but but...


Taxing the rich is fine. A 75% tax rate looks more like "Oh you have money, we cant balance a budget so we are taking your money."

At that point you might as well just claim their businesses as state property and operate them as crown corporations. What possible incentive could someone have for opperating their business somewhere where the  government leaves them with a quarter of every dollar they make?

Pimps take 75%. Rich people are not hookers they can slap back into line.
 
2014-05-28 08:21:52 PM  

rkiller1: ptpark: It is tempting to raise tax rates, but the entities that are being taxed adjust their behavior to deal with the increased rate of tax.  Perhaps the combination of increased black market activity and wealthier people leaving for other places has an impact on the amount of revenue the government can squeeze out of the populace.

Please stop, just stop injecting logic here.  Everyone knows that if you simply tax the filthy rich, all debt instantly disappears.  Sheeeesh!


You left out, "...and the economy thrives!"
 
2014-05-28 08:21:52 PM  
France passed a law that was supposed to raise a bunch of revenue, but instead it led to much less revenue when the EU declared it illegal.  I explained it in depth, but NoScript though the Preview button was trying to hack the Gibson, and deleted everything.  I might re-type it later, but not now.
 
2014-05-28 08:23:58 PM  

fusillade762: Mr Hollande has already said he will not slow the pace of deficit reduction, adding France "cannot live with such heavy debt".

Hmmm... obsessing about debt during a recession. Now where have I heard that one before...


Germany?
 
2014-05-28 08:25:38 PM  

praymantis: ptpark: It is tempting to raise tax rates, but the entities that are being taxed adjust their behavior to deal with the increased rate of tax.  Perhaps the combination of increased black market activity and wealthier people leaving for other places has an impact on the amount of revenue the government can squeeze out of the populace.

But socialism is great tax all the rich it will be fine. What you mean the rich people are leaving France but but...


Are they going to.....wait for it.....SOMALIA?
 
2014-05-28 08:34:24 PM  
The French would probably be the first to try the mint a "1 trillion coin" idea. They've dobne that kinda thing in the past.
 
2014-05-28 08:36:57 PM  

rkiller1: FTA:  "the Elysee Palace's forecasts of tax revenue in 2013 were so wildly inaccurate that they cast doubt on its forecasts for this year. It added the forecasts were overly optimistic and based on inaccurate projections."

Just like AGW.

THIS

but you mean CAGW
 
2014-05-28 08:37:06 PM  

Callous: dpzum1: "The income tax threshold for France's wealthiest citizens was raised to 75% last year, prompting some French citizens, including the actor Gerard Depardieu, to leave the country and seek citizenship elsewhere in Europe. "


Sacre' merde!

I've been told many times on Fark that cranking up taxes on the rich will solve all our problems and doesn't result in the rich moving away and a shortage of tax receipts.  This story must be a lie.


On the other hand, dropping taxes further and further to entice business eventually leaves the State with so little money you can no longer afford to keep the lights on: See Kansas.

It's almost like there is some middle ground between criminally low and criminally high taxes which result in an ideal level of tax revenue to perform the critical functions of a stable first-world government. Where the level of tax revenue the State brings in has the ability to protect and sustain corporate investments in your region, while also providing for the citizens of your state: See Iowa and Minnesota,
 
2014-05-28 08:39:34 PM  

Kumana Wanalaia: rkiller1: ptpark: It is tempting to raise tax rates, but the entities that are being taxed adjust their behavior to deal with the increased rate of tax.  Perhaps the combination of increased black market activity and wealthier people leaving for other places has an impact on the amount of revenue the government can squeeze out of the populace.

Please stop, just stop injecting logic here.  Everyone knows that if you simply tax the filthy rich, all debt instantly disappears.  Sheeeesh!

Well that settles it. If taxes go up one bit from their current 50 year lows, the world will explode.


you're right! Raise taxes to 99%
 
2014-05-28 08:40:24 PM  
Absolutely delightful seeing this filthy socialist scumbag fail so miserably.
 
2014-05-28 08:41:43 PM  

Cobblestone Flag: Callous: dpzum1: "The income tax threshold for France's wealthiest citizens was raised to 75% last year, prompting some French citizens, including the actor Gerard Depardieu, to leave the country and seek citizenship elsewhere in Europe. "


Sacre' merde!

I've been told many times on Fark that cranking up taxes on the rich will solve all our problems and doesn't result in the rich moving away and a shortage of tax receipts.  This story must be a lie.

On the other hand, dropping taxes further and further to entice business eventually leaves the State with so little money you can no longer afford to keep the lights on: See Kansas.

It's almost like there is some middle ground between criminally low and criminally high taxes which result in an ideal level of tax revenue to perform the critical functions of a stable first-world government. Where the level of tax revenue the State brings in has the ability to protect and sustain corporate investments in your region, while also providing for the citizens of your state: See Iowa and Minnesota,


And South Dakota.
 
2014-05-28 08:44:55 PM  

brimed03: Kumana Wanalaia: rkiller1: ptpark: It is tempting to raise tax rates, but the entities that are being taxed adjust their behavior to deal with the increased rate of tax.  Perhaps the combination of increased black market activity and wealthier people leaving for other places has an impact on the amount of revenue the government can squeeze out of the populace.

Please stop, just stop injecting logic here.  Everyone knows that if you simply tax the filthy rich, all debt instantly disappears.  Sheeeesh!

Well that settles it. If taxes go up one bit from their current 50 year lows, the world will explode.

Would. You. Stop. It.

The repeated appearance of facts and sanity in this thread is leaving me disoriented. Where's the whaargarbl Fark I know so well?


politics tab

better yet, go to a Yahoo! story about something political
 
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