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(Ars Technica)   Thanks to SCOTUS, Led Zeppelin may finally have to admit they were the music pirates of their day   (arstechnica.com) divider line 83
    More: Interesting, Led Zeppelin, Zeppelin, Spider-Man, stairway to heaven, supreme court ruling, Supreme Court, Raging Bull, Marvel Entertainment  
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5533 clicks; posted to Geek » on 28 May 2014 at 3:51 PM (8 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-28 02:32:09 PM
So their shadow is taller than their soul?
 
2014-05-28 03:57:42 PM
Wait, music pirates actually play the instruments and do the arrangements on the music they steal?
 
2014-05-28 03:58:38 PM
Mark Zuckerberg to the Winklevoss twins: "If you guys were the inventors of Facebook, you would have invented Facebook."
 
2014-05-28 04:01:22 PM

MFAWG: Wait, music pirates actually play the instruments and do the arrangements on the music they steal?


While drinking rum, of course.

/scotus? why?
 
2014-05-28 04:04:39 PM
Clapton and the Stones looking around whistling innocently.
 
2014-05-28 04:12:32 PM
What of the wenches? Are there wenches involved?

/and what the fark is wrong with the quote function on mobile?
 
2014-05-28 04:13:27 PM
I'm sure the lawyers involved will be glad to see justice was done.
 
2014-05-28 04:15:04 PM
nobody can fight over money like 'murican companies.   its the only thing they value.
 
2014-05-28 04:15:52 PM

Kurmudgeon: I'm sure the lawyers involved will be glad to see justice was done.



the'll be 'glad' all the way to their bank accounts.
 
2014-05-28 04:16:28 PM
I always thought they were overrated anyway
 
2014-05-28 04:24:44 PM
There should be a limit on how long you can wait before suing for copyright violation. Otherwise you have an incentive to wait and see if the violation is financially successful and then sue.
 
2014-05-28 04:24:55 PM
I loved Zep as a kid.  Now I can't hear any of their songs without wishing Plant would learn how to sing on key.
 
2014-05-28 04:28:59 PM
My take is that people under 40 don't really understand how hard it was to hear obscure music before the internetand Google.
 
2014-05-28 04:36:18 PM

MFAWG: My take is that people under 40 don't really understand how hard it was to hear obscure music before the internet and Google.


There was an interesting article a while ago from a music critic who talked about how difficult building up his music knowledge had been in the 70's and 80's and how what had taken years of experience to acquire could now be attained with an internet connection and a couple of hours searching.
 
2014-05-28 04:37:24 PM
You should have seen the pirates way back in the 18th century. They would see your ship, board it, measure it for blueprints, and build a copy of it. Hardcore.
 
2014-05-28 04:43:37 PM
I've heard the Taurus song.  It's similar chords and picking but not at all the same.  A better example of a possible ripoff is Dani California and Mary Janes Last Dance.
 
2014-05-28 04:44:47 PM
Now I'll brute force the population space of beats and chord progressions and get a slice of every song published in the future. And since sales of my piece will be non-existent there will be no royalties to pay to anyone who might achieve a judgement against my work.
 
2014-05-28 04:45:28 PM
I read that as SCROTUM at first
 
2014-05-28 04:56:59 PM

To The Escape Zeppelin!: There should be a limit on how long you can wait before suing for copyright violation. Otherwise you have an incentive to wait and see if the violation is financially successful and then sue.


  If I read the article correctly, the Supreme Court here specifically said you can wait to see if its worthwhile, but they also limited damages to within a 3 year statute of limitations from the date the case was originally filed, so waiting too long is going to cost you.
 
2014-05-28 04:57:41 PM
So, any artist who used a riff from an older song in one of theirs is a music pirate?  Heh, looks like Van Morrison and just about any other R&B artist is potentially within their rights to sue the entire music industry for copyright infringement covering anything produced from the past forty to fifty years.
 
2014-05-28 04:59:24 PM

To The Escape Zeppelin!: MFAWG: My take is that people under 40 don't really understand how hard it was to hear obscure music before the internet and Google.

There was an interesting article a while ago from a music critic who talked about how difficult building up his music knowledge had been in the 70's and 80's and how what had taken years of experience to acquire could now be attained with an internet connection and a couple of hours searching.


did you guys not have decent record stores and venues growing up, yes it took more time but it was a lot more fun that way
 
2014-05-28 05:10:43 PM

Rising_Zan_Samurai_Gunman: To The Escape Zeppelin!: There should be a limit on how long you can wait before suing for copyright violation. Otherwise you have an incentive to wait and see if the violation is financially successful and then sue.

  If I read the article correctly, the Supreme Court here specifically said you can wait to see if its worthwhile, but they also limited damages to within a 3 year statute of limitations from the date the case was originally filed, so waiting too long is going to cost you.


Yep, and the reasoning behind it is that, simultaneously, most works are in the red initially until they recoup their investment. So, if copyright owners were forced to sue immediately, infringers would simply point to their negative profits and say "you can have 5% royalty of negative $1 million, you actually owe memoney, bwahaha!"
In fact, if the 3-year statute of limitations started ticking when the copy was first published, then infringers would simply quietly publish things, sit on their hands for 3 years to keep from making a profit, and then start marketing them like crazy knowing that they were suit-proof and wouldn't ever have to pay royalties.
 
2014-05-28 05:11:40 PM
So, wait... Led Zeppelin would've been fine had they directly sampled and incorporated that particular portion of music, like nearly every other rapper and hip-hop "artist" for the last thirty years, but because they played that portion on their own instruments, it's somehow theft?

What the hell?!
 
2014-05-28 05:12:39 PM

lindalouwho: /scotus? why?


This case was an appeal from a 9th Circuit decision holding that a copyright owner couldn't collect damages for the past three years, since they hadn't brought suit a decade earlier when they knew of the infringement. It's actually about the MGM Sitting Bull movie rather than Zeppelin, but Subby was probably capitalizing on the recent Zeppelin-Spirit controversy.
 
2014-05-28 05:18:38 PM

FormlessOne: So, wait... Led Zeppelin would've been fine had they directly sampled and incorporated that particular portion of music, like nearly every other rapper and hip-hop "artist" for the last thirty years, but because they played that portion on their own instruments, it's somehow theft?

What the hell?!


It;s political correctness gone mad
 
2014-05-28 05:28:37 PM
So the guy from Spirit is dead, and Jimmy Page is 70 years old.

Yeah, this is a waste of resources at all.
 
2014-05-28 05:30:34 PM
FTA: Stan Lee Media is the company Spider-Man co-creator Stan Lee walked away from after it went bankrupt in 2000. The company now claims that the Petrella decision gives new life to the company's nonstop litigation claims that its assets were wrongly taken during the bankruptcy.

i1182.photobucket.com
 
2014-05-28 05:33:15 PM

Theaetetus: lindalouwho: /scotus? why?

This case was an appeal from a 9th Circuit decision holding that a copyright owner couldn't collect damages for the past three years, since they hadn't brought suit a decade earlier when they knew of the infringement. It's actually about the MGM Sitting Bull movie rather than Zeppelin, but Subby was probably capitalizing on the recent Zeppelin-Spirit controversy.


Sitting Bull?
 
2014-05-28 05:36:05 PM
chitownmike:
Sitting Bull?

1. Sitting
2.
Bull..
 
2014-05-28 05:38:41 PM
In one of my first music theory classes 20-some years ago, they let us know that any first 9 notes of a song would have been used and copyrighted in the past.  It must be up to any 12 by now.
 
2014-05-28 05:40:22 PM
Perhaps the best eight minutes of rock and roll of all time, the song "Stairway to Heaven,"...

I might give you the best 2:30 of rock and roll, starting from the triplets -> the guitar solo -> "as we wind on down the road..." -> outro. But the first two thirds of that song is just flabby bleh.
 
2014-05-28 05:41:22 PM

Memoryalpha: So, any artist who used a riff from an older song in one of theirs is a music pirate?  Heh, looks like Van Morrison and just about any other R&B artist is potentially within their rights to sue the entire music industry for copyright infringement covering anything produced from the past forty to fifty years.


They pay fees for samples, you know that, right?   Vanilla Ice is one of the more famous people spanked for doing it incorrectly.  You cannot just take someone else's hook, insert it into your song, and then sell that song for money without paying a license fee.
 
2014-05-28 05:44:24 PM

MFAWG: Wait, music pirates actually play the instruments and do the arrangements on the music they steal?


And, in this case, make it sound nothing like the original. Scurvy dogs!

And then there was George Harrison who inadvertently stole the melody of the Chiffons "He's so fine" with "My Sweet Lord"...at least he admitted doing it by accident.
 
2014-05-28 05:50:10 PM
Surfin' U.S.A. is notable for giving The Beach Boys their first widespread success with its title track, and for Brian Wilson's increasing prowess in songwriting, (..) The title track, "Surfin' U.S.A.", credited as composed by Brian Wilson, was an almost note-for-note cover of Chuck Berry's "Sweet Little Sixteen".
 
2014-05-28 05:59:38 PM

SewerSquirrels: And then there was George Harrison who inadvertently stole the melody of the Chiffons "He's so fine" with "My Sweet Lord"...at least he admitted doing it by accident.


Like anyone would do lang do lang do lang anything like that by accident.
 
2014-05-28 06:14:32 PM
I grew up in Portland, Oregon in the 1970s, and there were 3 decent record stores in the entire city, and you probably weren't going to find Howlin' Wolf in 2 of those. And it was a fairly hip city even then.
 
2014-05-28 06:44:23 PM
Forget Robert Plant, I heard this Robert Johnson hack stole lyrics and riffs from earlier BLACK artists!

What won't they steal from the blacks next!
 
2014-05-28 07:04:53 PM

boredomatwork: I've heard the Taurus song.  It's similar chords and picking but not at all the same.


Just listened to it. It resembles, but is legally distinct.

27.media.tumblr.com

/If I had a time machine, I'd go back to 1980 with note for note versions of me singing and playing songs by my least favorite artists, have a bunch of albums pressed, then come back to this time. Suddenly I'll rediscover a copy of my long lost album that features those songs. Justin Timberlake, Nickleback, Creed, Justin Bieber, the blackeyed peas, hootie and the blowfish, Dave Mathews Band, the white stripes, and so on will have some 'spalin to do as to their level of involvement in an industry wide conspiracy of over 20 years that ripped off, word for word and chord for chord, a single artists double album without giving him credit. Thanks supreme court!
 
2014-05-28 07:26:13 PM

FormlessOne: So, wait... Led Zeppelin would've been fine had they directly sampled and incorporated that particular portion of music, like nearly every other rapper and hip-hop "artist" for the last thirty years, but because they played that portion on their own instruments, it's somehow theft?

What the hell?!


1) You have to get permission to use a sample (since Paul's Boutique)

2) the artist you're sampling gets paid, and at a higher rate than if you'd simply covered the song.
 
2014-05-28 07:30:03 PM

FormlessOne: So, wait... Led Zeppelin would've been fine had they directly sampled and incorporated that particular portion of music, like nearly every other rapper and hip-hop "artist" for the last thirty years, but because they played that portion on their own instruments, it's somehow theft?

What the hell?!


No, of course not.  Hip-hop artists have to "clear" (i.e. license) every single sample they use, or else they are considered to have infringed copyright.  This was all pretty well decided in the '90s, when Vanilla Ice sampled a far better Queen song and got hit with the hammer of justice for it.  But please, don't let facts stand in the way of your uninformed ranting about those people and their "art".
 
2014-05-28 07:32:34 PM
My fantasy scenario is this: Stan Lee wins the rights to Spider-Man back from Disney. This has the side effect that Sony's licensing deal for the movies is invalidated. Stan then turns around and sells the rights back to Disney for a big cash payout, and now Marvel Studios has the movie rights to bring Spider-Man into the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
 
2014-05-28 07:33:33 PM

MFAWG: My take is that people under 40 don't really understand how hard it was to hear obscure music before the internetand Google.


Pretty much.  When the Stones covered "Love in Vain" they credited it to "trad. arr Jagger/Richards" as Keef had heard it on what amounted to a gray-label release and no one thought that anyone still controlled Johnson's copyrights.  As soon as some label worked out that THEY owned the Robert Johnson recordings, the Stones changed the credit and the label got paid.

/Johnson's heirs, of course, still got fark/all.
 
2014-05-28 07:33:36 PM
I always loved it when people would complain about how "artists these days are all the same, there's no originality" and then in the same breath mention Zeppelin.
 
2014-05-28 07:45:13 PM

LindenFark: My fantasy scenario is this: Stan Lee wins the rights to Spider-Man back from Disney. This has the side effect that Sony's licensing deal for the movies is invalidated. Stan then turns around and sells the rights back to Disney for a big cash payout, and now Marvel Studios has the movie rights to bring Spider-Man into the Marvel Cinematic Universe.


Stan's not involved in this.
 
2014-05-28 08:08:57 PM

duffblue: I always loved it when people would complain about how "artists these days are all the same, there's no originality" and then in the same breath mention Zeppelin.


I don't say that. I'm not a hip hop guy, but those are the only people I hear crossing genres and creating new shiat out of old shiat these days.

Which is what Page and Clapton did.
 
2014-05-28 08:31:07 PM
img.fark.net

Approves
 
2014-05-28 08:40:19 PM

MFAWG: duffblue: I always loved it when people would complain about how "artists these days are all the same, there's no originality" and then in the same breath mention Zeppelin.

I don't say that. I'm not a hip hop guy, but those are the only people I hear crossing genres and creating new shiat out of old shiat these days.

Which is what Page and Clapton did.


Page appropriated some of that shiat verbatim including the freakin' lyrics. It ain't borderline it's downright egregious.
 
2014-05-28 08:52:27 PM

JohnBigBootay: MFAWG: duffblue: I always loved it when people would complain about how "artists these days are all the same, there's no originality" and then in the same breath mention Zeppelin.

I don't say that. I'm not a hip hop guy, but those are the only people I hear crossing genres and creating new shiat out of old shiat these days.

Which is what Page and Clapton did.

Page appropriated some of that shiat verbatim including the freakin' lyrics. It ain't borderline it's downright egregious.


You're cute. You think anybody listens to the Zeppelin for the lyrics.
 
2014-05-28 09:12:48 PM

MFAWG: JohnBigBootay: MFAWG: duffblue: I always loved it when people would complain about how "artists these days are all the same, there's no originality" and then in the same breath mention Zeppelin.

I don't say that. I'm not a hip hop guy, but those are the only people I hear crossing genres and creating new shiat out of old shiat these days.

Which is what Page and Clapton did.

Page appropriated some of that shiat verbatim including the freakin' lyrics. It ain't borderline it's downright egregious.

You're cute. You think anybody listens to the Zeppelin for the lyrics.


I don't listen to them at all for probably twenty years. I just read about copyright cases. I'm often amazed at who wins and who loses. With zep 1 and 2 I'm stunned they got to keep any of the money at all but I guess it was the dawn of the age of all this shiat and poor old black dudes didn't get very good lawyers.
 
2014-05-28 09:13:09 PM

chitownmike: did you guys not have decent record stores and venues growing up, yes it took more time but it was a lot more fun that way


There's tons of music available on places like Bandcamp that will never be pressed onto a formal album.
 
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