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(The Detroit_News)   Funding for family planning decreased, abortion rate goes up. Who could have predicted that outcome? Oh, everyone. Right   (detroitnews.com) divider line 20
    More: Obvious, third world, birth control, abortion rates, Henry Ford Hospital, abortions, psychological stress, mandatory reporting, abortion debate  
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1744 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 May 2014 at 3:48 PM (30 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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2014-05-27 04:12:44 PM  
7 votes:
Republicans don't want to stop abortions, they just want to run women's lives and punish them for being "sluts".
2014-05-27 04:19:01 PM  
3 votes:

Corvus: Republicans don't want to stop abortions, they just want to run women's lives and punish them for being "sluts".


And if you think that statement of mine was partisan bullshiat, just read the comments on the article.
2014-05-28 12:39:18 AM  
2 votes:

cchris_39: How is that people can't afford birth control but they can afford abortions?


It's not a matter of rationally weighing costs for a lot of people. They haven't been taught proper reproductive biology or prioritization. They have sex and hope there are no negative outcomes. (Many people are under the highly erroneous impression that pregnancy only occurs if one or both parties want it to, as if the sperm and egg care what their host organisms think). It's only when they're under the gun of an inevitable pregnancy, that they try to scratch up the cash for an abortion.

Which is why reproductive biology should be honestly taught, and contraceptives made cheap or free. Also maybe some goddamn impulse control, which I know runs counter to our capitalist BUY BUY BUY DO IT DO IT SEX IS AWESOME XTREEEME society, so I doubt that will ever happen.

CSS time: I know upper-middle class white women who have had abortion(s). My good Catholic relative who worked in a counseling position at an upper-middle/upper class, mostly white, Catholic college got burned out by encountering so many girls getting pregnant and having abortions, year after year (in addition to/abetted by rampant date rape and cocaine use).

Hell, my mom knew a nurse in the pre Roe vs. Wade era who worked in an obgyn clinic. Often some well-to-do white woman would come in, complain of not having her period, and the doctor would order some type of procedure to clean out that pesky uterus. Oops, a fetus comes out, who knew the lady was pregnant? The nurse was getting upset and suspicious about how often a fetus would make a surprise appearance.

So pretending abortion is solely an inner-city black phenomenon is sorely misguided. But if you make abortions illegal, rich white women are always going to be able to solve the problem cleanly while the poor people suffer.
2014-05-27 04:12:49 PM  
2 votes:

Giltric: I thought abortion was family planning.


That's because you're not very intelligent.
2014-05-27 03:56:59 PM  
2 votes:

vpb: I would imagine that there are plenty of fundamentalist republicans who are baffled at that result.


Not their representatives. They know full well that properly funded family planning programs reduce abortions. That's why they oppose them.

A lot of right wing politicians owe their political careers to the existence of legal abortion. Without that bogeyman, there'd be nothing to thump their Bibles on.
2014-05-27 03:56:29 PM  
2 votes:
It's amazing when looking at the long term how much cheaper contraceptives or abortions are vs society raising unwanted children.  There should be ubiquitous and free birth control, practical sex education, and hell, free abortions for everyone as well.  It's such a simple change that would save this country so much money and trouble in the long run.

/tiny flags for people who aren't happy with these ideas, of course.
2014-05-27 03:50:33 PM  
2 votes:

The Stealth Hippopotamus: correlation vs causation


When the economy sucks people fark more. People who are farking more but don't have money for the babies get rid of the babies.


Science 2.0?

Even by your standards, that's pretty farking stupid.
2014-05-27 03:46:11 PM  
2 votes:
what will be really sad will be the statistics we'll start to see in red states that have closed a ton of clinics, like mississippi and texas. i'm guessing we'll see a spike in deaths from septicemia and an increase in horrific kermit gosnell stories.
2014-05-28 02:32:54 AM  
1 votes:

tbeatty: Why are liberals always so logically challenged?  This isn't a poverty AND family planning cost problem.  It's a poverty problem.  This is quite obvious to people that have brains (and do financials for abortion clinics).  Abortions cost more than contraceptives.  PP would give away contraceptives if it reduced abortions.  But it doesn't.  Poor people will sell their contraceptives before using them.  It's quite the idiotic statement to claim that planned parenthood is spending more on abortions if they could cut costs with free contraceptives.

So to sum up, in places where there isn't as much poverty, abortion rates are lower and contraception use is higher even if contraceptives are not free.  In places where there is more poverty, abortion rates are higher and contraception use is lower even when both services are free.    The difference between Detroit and the rest of Michigan isn't the high cost of contraceptives, it's the high poverty rate.


For the same reason conservatives are so philosophically challenged, I guess. It isn't the morality of abortion that's the real issue, but the practical issue of being able to feed and house another child when you already have three, no job, and a house in foreclosure; while politicians and preachers orate about how 'you should have thought of that before you got pregnant" meanwhile shutting down the clinics you need to get the things you were thinking of before you got pregnant, cutting off the insurance you need to buy the things you were thinking of before you got pregnant, and hamstringing the sex-ed classes you needed to even think about those things before you got pregnant.

In places where there is comprehensive sex-ed and family planning early and often, where contraceptives are readily available and there is no social stigma to using them, and healthcare is easy to obtain so the Pill is not difficult to get, there is a markedly lower rate of unplanned pregnancies especially teenage pregnancies, and a concommittant reduction in poverty, which leads to even fewer teen pregnancies. And also fewer abortions. But for some reason some places would prefer no abortions and no sex ed to that better alternative.
2014-05-27 06:32:47 PM  
1 votes:

Lsherm: I don't get a few things:

Nearly one-third of all pregnancies in the city of Detroit end in abortion, a statistic public health officials blame on rising poverty and dwindling access to affordable contraception.

I call bullshiat on this, if only because condoms and the pill are both significantly cheaper than an abortion.  If you aren't shelling out $5 for a 3 pack of condoms but can scare up $4-500 for an abortion, then it's not an affordability argument.

And maybe someone with experience in Detroit public schools can explain this one:

Detroit Public Schools spokeswoman Jennifer Mrozowski said the district has an abstinence-based sexuality curriculum that is "age, sequentially and developmentally appropriate for all students grades K-12 including special education."

Where is that directive coming from?


No idea, but I thought all sex education stressed abstience as the only 99.99999999999999% sure way of not getting pregnant, but some also choose to say "But if you're gonna get busy, use a condom to prevent STDs and reduce pregancies and take the pill to lower pregnancy risk, but still use a goddamn condom to stop STDs", while abstinence only ones say "ABSTAIN, ABSTAIN, ABSTAIN!!!! Ignore those urges and you won't need to learn about how to have safe sex.  Abstain.  Pray.  Abstain.  Pray some more, but don't jerk it, that's wrong.  In fact, we won't even talk about masturbation.  Abstinence only!"
2014-05-27 05:24:11 PM  
1 votes:

Giltric: From the pro choice website......over 50% of women claim to be using birth control (that has a 99.9% effective success rate) when they get pregnant.


That doesn't mean necessarily that they're lying. First of all, it's 99.9% (or whatever the actual percentage is) effective when used as instructed; they might have been using it wrong. Second, if that "50%" means "50% of women who have unplanned pregnancies", it still depends on how many people have unplanned pregnancies, and what percentage of people are having protected sex. If two women have unplanned pregnancies out of millions of people who have sex, and one of them was using a condom, that's still a pretty high effective rate.

That said, odds are that some of those surveyed are lying. Can't tell you how many though.
2014-05-27 04:36:56 PM  
1 votes:

Corvus: Republicans don't want to stop abortions, they just want to run women's lives and punish them for being "sluts".


Agreed, but IMO at the heart of that is the fact that they're very uncomfortable with - or even fearful of - talking about sex, which probably has to do with their deference to religious moral authority, and upholding of tradition for tradition's sake. I imagine if I had grown up in a place that's out of touch with the "national conversations" that we've been having on sexuality, I would probably hold a lot of the same beliefs about abortions and gays.
2014-05-27 04:36:15 PM  
1 votes:

Corvus: Corvus: Republicans don't want to stop abortions, they just want to run women's lives and punish them for being "sluts".

And if you think that statement of mine was partisan bullshiat, just read the comments on the article.


^This^

It seems obvious to anyone who bothers to think about it.  If you truly wanted to have less abortions you would be in favor of things that would prevent unplanned pregnancies like free birth control.

The truth is that either pro-lifers see the issue as black or white and see zero abortions as the ONLY acceptable outcome, therefore if a women has an abortion (and they always will, check the bible) it should be dangerous, shameful and as painful as possible.  Or they acknowledge that there will always cases where abortions will happen but they don't truly want to see less abortions, they just (as you said) want to punish woman.

What other choice is there after observing their actions?
2014-05-27 04:18:29 PM  
1 votes:
The objection to family planning, contreception, sex education has absolutely nothing to do with changing the number of unwanted pregnancies.  It has everything to do with forcing women to be punished for sex.  Period.  Even if she's married and has sanctioned sex, if God gives you a babby you take it whether you want it or not, whether you can afford it or not,  and for some extremists, whether it'll kill you or not.
2014-05-27 04:11:04 PM  
1 votes:
It's been well understood that republicans cause abortions for a while.
2014-05-27 03:59:37 PM  
1 votes:
Yes, but, not unlike drinking and driving and marijuana laws, if you outlaw abortion all together, it'll magically go away.
2014-05-27 03:52:55 PM  
1 votes:

The Stealth Hippopotamus: When the economy sucks people fark more. People who are farking more but don't have money for the babies get rid of the babies.


That explains the lowered birth rate during the Great Depression and the subsequent baby boom after the war.
2014-05-27 03:49:04 PM  
1 votes:
Well, everyone who isn't being purposefully obtuse.
2014-05-27 03:48:43 PM  
1 votes:
correlation vs causation


When the economy sucks people fark more. People who are farking more but don't have money for the babies get rid of the babies.
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-05-27 03:20:23 PM  
1 votes:
I would imagine that there are plenty of fundamentalist republicans who are baffled at that result.
 
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