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(Jim Butcher)   Skin Game, the latest book in The Dresden Files, is released at midnight. What will get burned down? How will Molly wind up nearly naked? How much snark will be laid? How many people will troll the thread? Let's hear it FARK   (jim-butcher.com) divider line 33
    More: Cool, Harry Dresden, Skin Game, How Many People, Dresden Files, thread, urban fantasy  
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307 clicks; posted to FarkUs » on 27 May 2014 at 10:17 AM (48 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



33 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-05-27 12:24:42 AM  
The Dresden Files?  Guess it's time to look that up.
 
2014-05-27 12:58:46 AM  
My son's copy will arrive tomorrow via UPS. Then he and a friend are driving to Powell's Books at Cedar Hills Crossing (Beaverton, Oregon) where Jim Butcher will be holding a book signing.
 
2014-05-27 01:15:07 AM  
Midnight in which time zone?  It's 12:14 here and I'm not yet allowed to download it.
 
2014-05-27 08:04:48 AM  
I dunno, but I guess I'll find out when UPS gets here. Since I'm working tomorrow, I suspect that the girl critter will find out before I do.
 
2014-05-27 11:18:04 AM  

knbber2: The Dresden Files?  Guess it's time to look that up.


Amazon had a sale on the Kindle editions.  I picked up the first two.  I'm four or five chapters into Storm Front.  It's okay.  Somewhat humorous at times.  A "turn your brain off" sort of read.  For my money's worth, there's not much that can beat the Flashman series if you've not read that.

\and Horatio Hornblower
\\and Discworld
 
2014-05-27 11:45:08 AM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: knbber2: The Dresden Files?  Guess it's time to look that up.

Amazon had a sale on the Kindle editions.  I picked up the first two.  I'm four or five chapters into Storm Front.  It's okay.  Somewhat humorous at times.  A "turn your brain off" sort of read.  For my money's worth, there's not much that can beat the Flashman series if you've not read that.

\and Horatio Hornblower
\\and Discworld


Discoworld and Dresden are 2 toally different ways to tell a story.

Once you get about 4 to 5 books into Dresden, he is starting to rereference characters and plotpoints. you realize these are not one offs and tell one long ass narrative.

Discworld does not have one long ass narrative. Just lots of small ones that make that universe interesting as a whole.

/can;t wait to download it
//legally of course
///maybe
 
2014-05-27 12:36:16 PM  

knbber2: The Dresden Files?  Guess it's time to look that up.


Here's how the Dressden Files plays out:

Books 1-3, The author is learning how to write. Minor annoyances in character personalities are probably enough to make some people quit.
Books 3-9, Characters and storylines smooth out, Harry Dresden(Obviously the main character) stop being an obstinate asshole with EVERYONE, and TFA learns how to make a character that is naturally distrusting of new people not be a complete dick and to actually show his nice helpful side.
The rest of the series: Enjoyable reading, fun premise and(Finally) well developed characters you enjoy.

Seriously, you can watch his writing skill progress, it's not a matter of him just not developing the characters, it's really not well written for the first three, and better as it goes. About book 9, you get to the point where you actually look forward to the next one.
 
2014-05-27 02:33:35 PM  
Listening to the Audiobook whilst I work today. The first hour has been good so far.
 
2014-05-27 03:25:02 PM  

Mikey1969: knbber2: The Dresden Files?  Guess it's time to look that up.

Here's how the Dressden Files plays out:

Books 1-3, The author is learning how to write. Minor annoyances in character personalities are probably enough to make some people quit.
Books 3-9, Characters and storylines smooth out, Harry Dresden(Obviously the main character) stop being an obstinate asshole with EVERYONE, and TFA learns how to make a character that is naturally distrusting of new people not be a complete dick and to actually show his nice helpful side.
The rest of the series: Enjoyable reading, fun premise and(Finally) well developed characters you enjoy.

Seriously, you can watch his writing skill progress, it's not a matter of him just not developing the characters, it's really not well written for the first three, and better as it goes. About book 9, you get to the point where you actually look forward to the next one.


I kind of feel the opposite, the recent books have relied on ridiculous plot contrivances(like his daughter which has so far existed as mostly a plot device rather than anything meaningful).  I get that he's building towards something but I preferred the small scale personal-level conflicts of the first books (and some of the subsequent novels) versus the earth shattering conflicts of the later books.  The recent ones feel too much like he's speeding through stuff just to put pieces where they need to be as well.

The description on this one is that he's ordered by the Queen of Fairies to work with some bad guys to rob a bank vault in the Nevernever to get the Holy Grail, which is currently owned by Hades.  It'll be fun to read, but I preferred him fighting werewolves in the park instead of reading him deus ex machina his way out of playing beer pong with Cthulhu for the fate of the galaxy.
 
2014-05-27 03:37:01 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: Mikey1969: knbber2: The Dresden Files?  Guess it's time to look that up.

Here's how the Dressden Files plays out:

Books 1-3, The author is learning how to write. Minor annoyances in character personalities are probably enough to make some people quit.
Books 3-9, Characters and storylines smooth out, Harry Dresden(Obviously the main character) stop being an obstinate asshole with EVERYONE, and TFA learns how to make a character that is naturally distrusting of new people not be a complete dick and to actually show his nice helpful side.
The rest of the series: Enjoyable reading, fun premise and(Finally) well developed characters you enjoy.

Seriously, you can watch his writing skill progress, it's not a matter of him just not developing the characters, it's really not well written for the first three, and better as it goes. About book 9, you get to the point where you actually look forward to the next one.

I kind of feel the opposite, the recent books have relied on ridiculous plot contrivances(like his daughter which has so far existed as mostly a plot device rather than anything meaningful).  I get that he's building towards something but I preferred the small scale personal-level conflicts of the first books (and some of the subsequent novels) versus the earth shattering conflicts of the later books.  The recent ones feel too much like he's speeding through stuff just to put pieces where they need to be as well.

The description on this one is that he's ordered by the Queen of Fairies to work with some bad guys to rob a bank vault in the Nevernever to get the Holy Grail, which is currently owned by Hades.  It'll be fun to read, but I preferred him fighting werewolves in the park instead of reading him deus ex machina his way out of playing beer pong with Cthulhu for the fate of the galaxy.


I see that... I still think his characters got more interesting, and Dresden quit being a prick. There's a fine balance there in a character. If you watch Bones, it's the same thing with Brennan, the 'I-don't-understand-social-customs thing was a neat hook, but it got ridiculous after awhile because she was pretty much living-under-a-rock material. They backed it off, and it got fun again. Unfortunately, they forgot that and made her a moron again. I saw the same thing with Dresden wanting to make EVERYTHING into a farking fight. Not everyone was out to piss in his Cheerios. The adventures DID get rather convoluted, but I preferred that trade-off to his character making me want to wish for his death on the very next page. I really enjoy all of the characters now, but it isn't simple anymore, you've got a point there.
 
2014-05-27 04:55:07 PM  
Dresden Files = Weeds.

"Well how the fark will they get out of THIS problem?!"

And they do.

So far Dresden hasn't had his "on the run in the dodge minivan" season yet.

Oh but I am waiting for the wheels to come off.....
 
2014-05-27 06:13:17 PM  
I have no idea whether this is true or not, but the books feel like they are products of marathon gaming sessions, likely DMed by Butcher. It would certainly explain the constant ratcheting up of power from the beginning of the series on (if you played AD&D, what happened to most of your campaigns when you hit 15+?). It also fits character development, outlandish situations the characters have to deal with, and non-linear problem solving techniques (a whole party played by drunks isn't fun; one or two players who are loopy can make a night or a campaign.
 
2014-05-27 10:13:16 PM  
Should get my copy on Thursday. Very excited!!!
Hoping to get it read before my summer class.
 
2014-05-28 12:31:00 AM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: For my money's worth, there's not much that can beat the Flashman series if you've not read that.



That looks like it's in a completely different genre than the Dresden Files (Victorian-era adventure), but I really like reading about anti-heroes....so I'll check it out.

/ always something new to learn on FARK
// no snark intended.
 
2014-05-28 01:54:48 AM  

Forbidden Doughnut: whizbangthedirtfarmer: For my money's worth, there's not much that can beat the Flashman series if you've not read that.


That looks like it's in a completely different genre than the Dresden Files (Victorian-era adventure), but I really like reading about anti-heroes....so I'll check it out.

/ always something new to learn on FARK
// no snark intended.


It's urban fantasy. And it's sort of bubblegum fun, with a nod to pulpy detective fiction and the pulpy adventure fiction of yore, with some twists and turns and some interesting takes on vampires and lycanthropes, and magic that is a bit more than "he pulled up his manna and a dragon popped out" or "blue fire from Elfstones" variety.  I had avoided it for a long time, because urban fantasy tends towards "Suicide Girls meet Vampires" and some really bad hippy trip with fairies. The one thing that I do like about the Dresden Files is that Butcher at least goes back a ways in how he portrays the Fae, and goes to their roots as the wellspring that modern horror dips into. Horror fiction is just modern faerie tales, with less Knockers and Redcaps and Alfar and Dokkalfar, but the roots remain in cautionary tales with bits of wonder mixed in with spooooky stuff. And bloody stuff. And deeply rooted in the idea of retribution for wrongs and deals gone sour. Faerie tales are social conditioning, and in many ways modern horror is still rooted in some moralism, but with some modern sensibilities that says, "Sometimes bad stuff happens, even IF you say your prayers at night." They're still cautionary tales, and still rooted in the idea that if you're smart, you'll keep wary, keep vigilant, and stay the heck out of places you know you damn well don't belong. Which is what faerie tales kept trying to inculcate and teach, over and over again. Well, that, and the importance of manners when dealing with folks who can kill you without warning.
 
2014-05-28 02:56:27 AM  
That was an awesome TV show.

/runs
//furniture
///door
 
2014-05-28 03:58:12 AM  
hubiestubert:
It's urban fantasy. And it's sort of bubblegum fun, with a nod to pulpy detective fiction and the pulpy adventure fiction of yore, with some twists and turns and some interesting takes on vampires and lycanthropes, and magic that is a bit more than "he pulled up his manna and a dragon popped out" or "blue fire from Elfstones" variety.  I had avoided it for a long time, because urban fantasy tends towards "Suicide Girls meet Vampires"

It's not devolving into a formulaic "I'll fark my way out of the plot, creature of the week is a were-camel (which I'll fark too)" claptrap like some other series*?

*Yeah, I'm a hater. Fark you sideways, Laurell K. Hamilton.
 
2014-05-28 04:35:25 AM  

Cheese eating surrender monkey: hubiestubert:
It's urban fantasy. And it's sort of bubblegum fun, with a nod to pulpy detective fiction and the pulpy adventure fiction of yore, with some twists and turns and some interesting takes on vampires and lycanthropes, and magic that is a bit more than "he pulled up his manna and a dragon popped out" or "blue fire from Elfstones" variety.  I had avoided it for a long time, because urban fantasy tends towards "Suicide Girls meet Vampires"

It's not devolving into a formulaic "I'll fark my way out of the plot, creature of the week is a were-camel (which I'll fark too)" claptrap like some other series*?

*Yeah, I'm a hater. Fark you sideways, Laurell K. Hamilton.


Well, you're not wrong.
 
2014-05-28 04:48:21 AM  

Mikey1969: I see that... I still think his characters got more interesting


I feel they got less interesting. Too much forced melodrama because Harry became a superman, so Butcher could only hurt him emotionally and threaten him with gods.

I really liked him as the underdog. He was relatable. He was a wizard, but Hendricks could probably have taken him in a fight if he got the first swing in. Now he can't even be killed by handgun.
 
2014-05-28 05:35:15 AM  
Just finished Changes today. Gonna buy the next few on Thursday morning. Terrified to find out how the cliffhanger at the end of Changes works out - that whole book had me feeling like I was getting punched in the face every few pages.
 
2014-05-28 07:28:40 AM  

zombiegoat: Cheese eating surrender monkey: hubiestubert:
It's urban fantasy. And it's sort of bubblegum fun, with a nod to pulpy detective fiction and the pulpy adventure fiction of yore, with some twists and turns and some interesting takes on vampires and lycanthropes, and magic that is a bit more than "he pulled up his manna and a dragon popped out" or "blue fire from Elfstones" variety.  I had avoided it for a long time, because urban fantasy tends towards "Suicide Girls meet Vampires"

It's not devolving into a formulaic "I'll fark my way out of the plot, creature of the week is a were-camel (which I'll fark too)" claptrap like some other series*?

*Yeah, I'm a hater. Fark you sideways, Laurell K. Hamilton.

Well, you're not wrong.


Errrm... On the internet, that last sentence is usually followed by a picture of the Dude with the words "... but you're an asshole" so I'm not exactly sure what to make of it.
 
2014-05-28 07:45:39 AM  

Forbidden Doughnut: whizbangthedirtfarmer: For my money's worth, there's not much that can beat the Flashman series if you've not read that.


That looks like it's in a completely different genre than the Dresden Files (Victorian-era adventure), but I really like reading about anti-heroes....so I'll check it out.

/ always something new to learn on FARK
// no snark intended.


Oh sure, but if you want a LOT of pages, some awesome real history, some great writing, and stuff that will make you laugh out loud, then Flashman is the series to go to.  All of the novels are wonderful, even some of the weaker ones.  For my money, there's not much funnier than the impromptu cricket game in Flashman's Wife.

So, yes, it's different, but it strikes me as much higher quality than what I've read of Dresden so far (admittedly, only half of the first novel).  But from that benchmark, I was thoroughly enjoying Flashy, Horatio Hornblower, and Discworld a lot more than I am Dresden.  Dresden may get better, but it's not left much of an impression on me at this time.
 
2014-05-28 07:51:00 AM  

Squilax: Terrified to find out how the cliffhanger at the end of Changes works out


Harry wakes up at Hogwarts and it turns out Dresden is Potter's adult persona.
 
2014-05-28 09:19:26 AM  

doglover: Squilax: Terrified to find out how the cliffhanger at the end of Changes works out

Harry wakes up at Hogwarts and it turns out Dresden is Potter's adult persona.


That's what I thought! It was either that, or "Harry loses all his magic and starts working at Pizza 'Spress with Toot-Toot and the rest of the little fae as deliveryfolk".
 
2014-05-28 09:21:08 AM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: Forbidden Doughnut: whizbangthedirtfarmer: For my money's worth, there's not much that can beat the Flashman series if you've not read that.


That looks like it's in a completely different genre than the Dresden Files (Victorian-era adventure), but I really like reading about anti-heroes....so I'll check it out.

/ always something new to learn on FARK
// no snark intended.

Oh sure, but if you want a LOT of pages, some awesome real history, some great writing, and stuff that will make you laugh out loud, then Flashman is the series to go to.  All of the novels are wonderful, even some of the weaker ones.  For my money, there's not much funnier than the impromptu cricket game in Flashman's Wife.

So, yes, it's different, but it strikes me as much higher quality than what I've read of Dresden so far (admittedly, only half of the first novel).  But from that benchmark, I was thoroughly enjoying Flashy, Horatio Hornblower, and Discworld a lot more than I am Dresden.  Dresden may get better, but it's not left much of an impression on me at this time.


As far as I'm concerned, I'm not in it to critique the writing, but if something makes me laugh out loud to myself on the bus in the morning as much as Discworld or Hitchhiker's Guide, I'm all for it. And Dresden *definitely* does that.
 
2014-05-28 11:30:21 AM  

Cheese eating surrender monkey: zombiegoat: Cheese eating surrender monkey: hubiestubert:
It's urban fantasy. And it's sort of bubblegum fun, with a nod to pulpy detective fiction and the pulpy adventure fiction of yore, with some twists and turns and some interesting takes on vampires and lycanthropes, and magic that is a bit more than "he pulled up his manna and a dragon popped out" or "blue fire from Elfstones" variety.  I had avoided it for a long time, because urban fantasy tends towards "Suicide Girls meet Vampires"

It's not devolving into a formulaic "I'll fark my way out of the plot, creature of the week is a were-camel (which I'll fark too)" claptrap like some other series*?

*Yeah, I'm a hater. Fark you sideways, Laurell K. Hamilton.

Well, you're not wrong.

Errrm... On the internet, that last sentence is usually followed by a picture of the Dude with the words "... but you're an asshole" so I'm not exactly sure what to make of it.


Not this time. Hamilton went completely off the rails with Narcissus In Chains, and until then, she was one of the best writers in the urban fantasy field, if not the best one. Anita Blake, The Executioner, became Anita Blake, Foldable Fark Doll. No snark this time, just acknowledgement of a sad truth.
 
2014-05-28 11:40:35 AM  

Squilax: whizbangthedirtfarmer: Forbidden Doughnut: whizbangthedirtfarmer: For my money's worth, there's not much that can beat the Flashman series if you've not read that.


That looks like it's in a completely different genre than the Dresden Files (Victorian-era adventure), but I really like reading about anti-heroes....so I'll check it out.

/ always something new to learn on FARK
// no snark intended.

Oh sure, but if you want a LOT of pages, some awesome real history, some great writing, and stuff that will make you laugh out loud, then Flashman is the series to go to.  All of the novels are wonderful, even some of the weaker ones.  For my money, there's not much funnier than the impromptu cricket game in Flashman's Wife.

So, yes, it's different, but it strikes me as much higher quality than what I've read of Dresden so far (admittedly, only half of the first novel).  But from that benchmark, I was thoroughly enjoying Flashy, Horatio Hornblower, and Discworld a lot more than I am Dresden.  Dresden may get better, but it's not left much of an impression on me at this time.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm not in it to critique the writing, but if something makes me laugh out loud to myself on the bus in the morning as much as Discworld or Hitchhiker's Guide, I'm all for it. And Dresden *definitely* does that.



See, Discworld books hae relatively interesting stories... not a one has made me lol.
 
2014-05-28 02:09:36 PM  

Jim from Saint Paul: Squilax: whizbangthedirtfarmer: Forbidden Doughnut: whizbangthedirtfarmer: For my money's worth, there's not much that can beat the Flashman series if you've not read that.


That looks like it's in a completely different genre than the Dresden Files (Victorian-era adventure), but I really like reading about anti-heroes....so I'll check it out.

/ always something new to learn on FARK
// no snark intended.

Oh sure, but if you want a LOT of pages, some awesome real history, some great writing, and stuff that will make you laugh out loud, then Flashman is the series to go to.  All of the novels are wonderful, even some of the weaker ones.  For my money, there's not much funnier than the impromptu cricket game in Flashman's Wife.

So, yes, it's different, but it strikes me as much higher quality than what I've read of Dresden so far (admittedly, only half of the first novel).  But from that benchmark, I was thoroughly enjoying Flashy, Horatio Hornblower, and Discworld a lot more than I am Dresden.  Dresden may get better, but it's not left much of an impression on me at this time.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm not in it to critique the writing, but if something makes me laugh out loud to myself on the bus in the morning as much as Discworld or Hitchhiker's Guide, I'm all for it. And Dresden *definitely* does that.


See, Discworld books hae relatively interesting stories... not a one has made me lol.


...I am agog at that statement. Simply. Agog. I have been reduced to fits of giggles by the series. Good Omens never made me giggle in the same fashion, but it was a damn fine read, and I attribute that to the collaboration between Pratchett and Gaiman. Maybe Pratchett isn't for you, and by extension, maybe the Dresden files ain't for you either. No shame in that. I guess it does beg the question, of what DOES make you smile though...
 
2014-05-28 02:39:13 PM  

Jim from Saint Paul: See, Discworld books hae relatively interesting stories... not a one has made me lol


Count me agog as well.  Not even once?  Pratchett has some incredibly clever humor throughout the series.
 
2014-05-28 02:59:30 PM  

doglover: Mikey1969: I see that... I still think his characters got more interesting

I feel they got less interesting. Too much forced melodrama because Harry became a superman, so Butcher could only hurt him emotionally and threaten him with gods.

I really liked him as the underdog. He was relatable. He was a wizard, but Hendricks could probably have taken him in a fight if he got the first swing in. Now he can't even be killed by handgun.


And all of this.  His flaws aren't flaws anymore, and sacrifice he's ever made just makes him more powerful.  I guess in the beginning I was hoping for more of a goofy version of Constantine instead of Super Dresden the Melancholy
 
2014-05-28 03:26:43 PM  

hubiestubert: Jim from Saint Paul: Squilax: whizbangthedirtfarmer: Forbidden Doughnut: whizbangthedirtfarmer: For my money's worth, there's not much that can beat the Flashman series if you've not read that.


That looks like it's in a completely different genre than the Dresden Files (Victorian-era adventure), but I really like reading about anti-heroes....so I'll check it out.

/ always something new to learn on FARK
// no snark intended.

Oh sure, but if you want a LOT of pages, some awesome real history, some great writing, and stuff that will make you laugh out loud, then Flashman is the series to go to.  All of the novels are wonderful, even some of the weaker ones.  For my money, there's not much funnier than the impromptu cricket game in Flashman's Wife.

So, yes, it's different, but it strikes me as much higher quality than what I've read of Dresden so far (admittedly, only half of the first novel).  But from that benchmark, I was thoroughly enjoying Flashy, Horatio Hornblower, and Discworld a lot more than I am Dresden.  Dresden may get better, but it's not left much of an impression on me at this time.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm not in it to critique the writing, but if something makes me laugh out loud to myself on the bus in the morning as much as Discworld or Hitchhiker's Guide, I'm all for it. And Dresden *definitely* does that.


See, Discworld books hae relatively interesting stories... not a one has made me lol.

...I am agog at that statement. Simply. Agog. I have been reduced to fits of giggles by the series. Good Omens never made me giggle in the same fashion, but it was a damn fine read, and I attribute that to the collaboration between Pratchett and Gaiman. Maybe Pratchett isn't for you, and by extension, maybe the Dresden files ain't for you either. No shame in that. I guess it does beg the question, of what DOES make you smile though...


Lumbar Puncture: Jim from Saint Paul: See, Discworld books hae relatively interesting stories... not a one has made me lol

Count me agog as well.  Not even once?  Pratchett has some incredibly clever humor throughout the series.


Maybe it's because I have mainly just read the 3 witches books. A few random ones that left no impression on me.

Ok. So let's say those books were not the best.

Give me 3 or 4 books in the series.
 
2014-05-28 05:53:04 PM  

Jim from Saint Paul: Ok. So let's say those books were not the best.


Yeah, the witch ones were alright but not the best.

The Death series (Mort, Reaper Man, Soul Music, Hogfather, and Thief of Time) and the City Watch series (Guards! Guards!, Men At Arms, Feet of Clay, Jingo, The Fifth Element, Night Watch, etc) are my favorite books in the series.  Some of the jokes are poking fun at British culture so some of that flew over my head, but there's an amazing array of homages/references to literature and pop culture satire blended into the narrative seamlessly.*

*always read the footnotes.
 
2014-05-28 06:02:59 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: Jim from Saint Paul: Ok. So let's say those books were not the best.

Yeah, the witch ones were alright but not the best.

The Death series (Mort, Reaper Man, Soul Music, Hogfather, and Thief of Time) and the City Watch series (Guards! Guards!, Men At Arms, Feet of Clay, Jingo, The Fifth Element, Night Watch, etc) are my favorite books in the series.  Some of the jokes are poking fun at British culture so some of that flew over my head, but there's an amazing array of homages/references to literature and pop culture satire blended into the narrative seamlessly.*

*always read the footnotes.


I read only the Rincewind series thus far, and they were pretty amusing, and, in some places, laugh out loud.
 
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