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(WAAY TV)   Minnesota raises the bar and becomes the first state to ban antibacterial soaps   (waaytv.com) divider line 112
    More: Spiffy, Minnesota, antibacterial soap, ban antibacterial, antibacterials, shower gel, soaps  
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7858 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 May 2014 at 4:45 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-27 12:10:25 AM  
They may want to Dial back their rhetoric...
 
2014-05-27 12:29:05 AM  
Minnesotans won't be clean until they're Zest-fully clean.
 
2014-05-27 01:38:33 AM  
Frankly, soap itself isn't all that great for you either. The naturally-occurring bacteria on your body are a natural deodorant and protective layer, but soap washes it away and bacteria from other sources can invade, cause infections, and end up damaging your skin as well as really mess up your hygiene. Washing occasionally with warm water and a soft washcloth is the best way to promote "good" bacterial growth and prevent bad bacterial infection.

The "no-poo" anti-shampoo movement has seriously taken off in recent years, in large part to the novel Bridget Jones' Diary: The Edge of Reason. Shampoo strips hair of its natural oils, and an entire industry is built around providing "nourishing" conditioners which attempt to restore oil to hair but do a poor job mimicking what nature does so perfectly.

Anyway, good on Minnesota. Hopefully this is a successful first step towards a better place.
 
2014-05-27 04:49:30 AM  
The length of exposure that bacteria have when washing with antibacterial soap is about enough to train them in how to deal it.
 
2014-05-27 04:54:45 AM  
When I lived in the USA, I was astonished by the level at which you Americans sterilized anything and everything. "Life demands Lysol" ? Really ? I know I'm a dirty French, but do you really need to sterilize the couch ? American kids are shielded from germs, and the results are that they don't build any immunisation, and therefore fall il more often than their European couterparts ?
 
2014-05-27 04:55:04 AM  
FTFA, they didn't ban the soap itself, just the soaps with a certain ingredient.

However, as AverageAmericanGuy said: The naturally-occurring bacteria on your body are a natural deodorant and protective layer, but soap washes it away and bacteria from other sources can invade, cause infections, and end up damaging your skin as well as really mess up your hygiene.

I wish I could show this to a person I know.  She follows her children around with a bottle of Purell, because GOD HELP her child touches a swingset at a park.
 
2014-05-27 05:23:26 AM  

padraig: When I lived in the USA, I was astonished by the level at which you Americans sterilized anything and everything. "Life demands Lysol" ? Really ? I know I'm a dirty French, but do you really need to sterilize the couch ? American kids are shielded from germs, and the results are that they don't build any immunisation, and therefore fall il more often than their European couterparts ?


Naw.  They just did all that stuff because your dirty furren self was around.

geom_00: I wish I could show this to a person I know. She follows her children around with a bottle of Purell, because GOD HELP her child touches a swingset at a park.


It's nice of her to sterilize the swing-set after her nasty crotchfruit has touched it.  I wish people at the gym were as considerate.

/26 minutes
 
2014-05-27 05:28:25 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: The "no-poo" anti-shampoo movement


Whoa, I am so out of it. Never heard of this until Fark.
 
2014-05-27 05:41:51 AM  
The more I've been reading about this, the more I'm like, "Who the fark decided this was a great thing to add to these products?"

Seriously, it's a great way to breed drug resistant germs.
 
2014-05-27 05:43:53 AM  
Same here. No clue what that is about. On a related note, I shower daily with shampoo and soap, as I have since I can remember, and maybe get sick once a year. Also usually wash my hands unless I'm drinking.....ain't nobody got time from that.

/from phone
//in the bathroom
///drunk king
////dun dun dun
 
2014-05-27 05:54:23 AM  
When antibacterial soap is outlawed, only outlaws will have clean hands.
 
2014-05-27 05:54:36 AM  
Err that was supposed to quote enthralled
 
2014-05-27 06:18:27 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Frankly, soap itself isn't all that great for you either. The naturally-occurring bacteria on your body are a natural deodorant and protective layer, but soap washes it away and bacteria from other sources can invade, cause infections, and end up damaging your skin as well as really mess up your hygiene. Washing occasionally with warm water and a soft washcloth is the best way to promote "good" bacterial growth and prevent bad bacterial infection.

The "no-poo" anti-shampoo movement has seriously taken off in recent years, in large part to the novel Bridget Jones' Diary: The Edge of Reason. Shampoo strips hair of its natural oils, and an entire industry is built around providing "nourishing" conditioners which attempt to restore oil to hair but do a poor job mimicking what nature does so perfectly.

Anyway, good on Minnesota. Hopefully this is a successful first step towards a better place.


Bs

If I don't wash my hair in about 36 hours it's a stinky greasy mess.
 
2014-05-27 06:26:32 AM  

padraig: When I lived in the USA, I was astonished by the level at which you Americans sterilized anything and everything. "Life demands Lysol" ? Really ? I know I'm a dirty French, but do you really need to sterilize the couch ? .


It all started with those obsessive compulsive Puritans.
 
2014-05-27 06:29:55 AM  

enthralledgeishagirl: AverageAmericanGuy: The "no-poo" anti-shampoo movement

Whoa, I am so out of it. Never heard of this until Fark.


Same here. I was wondering what poop had to do with hair.
 
2014-05-27 06:32:29 AM  
So MN is anti-anti-bacterial soap...so they are PRO-biotic soap.

/selling it here first.
//shiat soap on a rope.
 
2014-05-27 07:06:52 AM  
I just wash my hand with water in the restroom.  Anything you get on your hands when taking a dump is water soluble.  All it needs is warm water to wash off.  I don't understand the obsession with sterilizing everything.  The local news doesn't help.  They're usually telling people to scrub while you sing the alphabet song.
 
2014-05-27 07:08:50 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Frankly, soap itself isn't all that great for you either. The naturally-occurring bacteria on your body are a natural deodorant and protective layer, but soap washes it away and bacteria from other sources can invade, cause infections, and end up damaging your skin as well as really mess up your hygiene. Washing occasionally with warm water and a soft washcloth is the best way to promote "good" bacterial growth and prevent bad bacterial infection.

The "no-poo" anti-shampoo movement has seriously taken off in recent years, in large part to the novel Bridget Jones' Diary: The Edge of Reason. Shampoo strips hair of its natural oils, and an entire industry is built around providing "nourishing" conditioners which attempt to restore oil to hair but do a poor job mimicking what nature does so perfectly.

Anyway, good on Minnesota. Hopefully this is a successful first step towards a better place.


You've never had a MRSA infection.
 
2014-05-27 07:15:30 AM  
Richard Hamner, owner of Green Mountain Soap in Huntsville says he makes one of the purest soaps.

What the fark does that have to do with anything? Does Green Mountian not use the bad chemical? Do they use and contest that it's bad? Is it a plug? Or just random farking info.
 
2014-05-27 07:17:53 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: and there is the reason... breed resistant germs, you get to market a new antibiotic.


The reason is much simpler and less tinfoil hat territory.

In order to sell something, people have to want it. How to get people to buy your companie's soap and not BrandX Soap? The answer is to add a mild anti-bacterial ingredient, market the soap as anti-bacterial and you have a couple quarters of competitive advantage until your competitors follow suit. People are creatures of habit so once they're buying your soap they continue to do so for the most part.

Basically, it's a bunch of people sitting around asking "how can we make mothers (because lets be honest, most fathers don't get wound up about germs) afraid to let their kids touch anything or to play in the dirt without using our product?"
 
2014-05-27 07:18:36 AM  

foo monkey: You've never had a MRSA infection.


Ever wonder how we ended up with MRSA?
 
2014-05-27 07:23:04 AM  

MugzyBrown: AverageAmericanGuy: Frankly, soap itself isn't all that great for you either. The naturally-occurring bacteria on your body are a natural deodorant and protective layer, but soap washes it away and bacteria from other sources can invade, cause infections, and end up damaging your skin as well as really mess up your hygiene. Washing occasionally with warm water and a soft washcloth is the best way to promote "good" bacterial growth and prevent bad bacterial infection.

The "no-poo" anti-shampoo movement has seriously taken off in recent years, in large part to the novel Bridget Jones' Diary: The Edge of Reason. Shampoo strips hair of its natural oils, and an entire industry is built around providing "nourishing" conditioners which attempt to restore oil to hair but do a poor job mimicking what nature does so perfectly.

Anyway, good on Minnesota. Hopefully this is a successful first step towards a better place.

Bs

If I don't wash my hair in about 36 hours it's a stinky greasy mess.


I stopped using shampoo on my hair about a month ago. I really haven't noticed too much of a difference. Doesn't smell, doesn't really look any different after I dry it. Just normal hot water in the shower.

That being said, it's probably my limit for going "au natural". I have smelly pits, so soap everywhere else. Like double.
 
2014-05-27 07:31:17 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: foo monkey: You've never had a MRSA infection.

Ever wonder how we ended up with MRSA?


Not from soap, with or without triclosan. It's MRSA, not TRSA.
 
2014-05-27 07:32:49 AM  

MythDragon: Richard Hamner, owner of Green Mountain Soap in Huntsville says he makes one of the purest soaps.

What the fark does that have to do with anything? Does Green Mountian not use the bad chemical? Do they use and contest that it's bad? Is it a plug? Or just random farking info.

The only thing I can figure out is that the story was originally much longer and was edited down leaving one line that can only hurt Green Mountain soap. Makes it seem they were banned and are defending their manufacturing practices
 
2014-05-27 07:36:20 AM  

Muta: I just wash my hand with water in the restroom.  Anything you get on your hands when taking a dump is water soluble.  All it needs is warm water to wash off.  I don't understand the obsession with sterilizing everything.  The local news doesn't help.  They're usually telling people to scrub while you sing the alphabet song.


The handle you can use with your forearm to open the door was a better idea than that antibacterial soap
 
2014-05-27 07:42:39 AM  

foo monkey: Not from soap, with or without triclosan. It's MRSA, not TRSA.


So you're not clear on what the M in MRSA stands for. That's cool I guess, but you might want to dial back the autism just a bit and consider that I'm talking about the overuse and improper use of anti-bacterial products in general.

ElPollotonto: The handle you can use with your forearm to open the door was a better idea than that antibacterial soap


The doorless restroom designs you see in some airports are even better.
 
2014-05-27 07:42:42 AM  

enthralledgeishagirl: AverageAmericanGuy: The "no-poo" anti-shampoo movement

Whoa, I am so out of it. Never heard of this until Fark.


...further blurring the line between hipsters and the homeless.

/ http://www.hipsterorhomeless.com/
 
2014-05-27 07:44:52 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: ElPollotonto: The handle you can use with your forearm to open the door was a better idea than that antibacterial soap

The doorless restroom designs you see in some airports are even better.


...or restroom doors that just swing outwards.  That way you can just use your foot to open it when you're leaving (after you've washed your hands).
 
2014-05-27 07:46:09 AM  

foo monkey: AverageAmericanGuy: Frankly, soap itself isn't all that great for you either. The naturally-occurring bacteria on your body are a natural deodorant and protective layer, but soap washes it away and bacteria from other sources can invade, cause infections, and end up damaging your skin as well as really mess up your hygiene. Washing occasionally with warm water and a soft washcloth is the best way to promote "good" bacterial growth and prevent bad bacterial infection.

The "no-poo" anti-shampoo movement has seriously taken off in recent years, in large part to the novel Bridget Jones' Diary: The Edge of Reason. Shampoo strips hair of its natural oils, and an entire industry is built around providing "nourishing" conditioners which attempt to restore oil to hair but do a poor job mimicking what nature does so perfectly.

Anyway, good on Minnesota. Hopefully this is a successful first step towards a better place.

You've never had a MRSA infection.


Or food poisoning.
And after cleaning up dog shiat, you better believe I am using antibacterial soap.
 
2014-05-27 07:47:01 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Frankly, soap itself isn't all that great for you either. The naturally-occurring bacteria on your body are a natural deodorant and protective layer, but soap washes it away and bacteria from other sources can invade, cause infections, and end up damaging your skin as well as really mess up your hygiene. Washing occasionally with warm water and a soft washcloth is the best way to promote "good" bacterial growth and prevent bad bacterial infection.


You don't wash your ass with soap? That's gross. Really gross.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2014-05-27 07:49:31 AM  
Wait a second... I thought evolution wasn't real?!
 
2014-05-27 07:50:02 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: foo monkey: Not from soap, with or without triclosan. It's MRSA, not TRSA.

So you're not clear on what the M in MRSA stands for. That's cool I guess, but you might want to dial back the autism just a bit and consider that I'm talking about the overuse and improper use of anti-bacterial products in general.

ElPollotonto: The handle you can use with your forearm to open the door was a better idea than that antibacterial soap

The doorless restroom designs you see in some airports are even better.


I'm talking about AAG not using soap at all. No idea what monsense you're malking about.
 
2014-05-27 07:50:38 AM  
Guys lets not be too hasty about the no soap in the shower news alright? I have an 11 hour flight on Friday....
 
2014-05-27 07:59:48 AM  
Antibacterial soap makes about as much sense as antibacterial fire. Soap emulsifies the cell walls of bacteria so they will never mutate a way to defend against it. It has to be one of the most useful human inventions in history.
 
2014-05-27 08:00:29 AM  
Here's a 2009 publication from Townsend, Daltrey, Entwistle, and Moon on hand hygiene. When you go to page 31, they review the data on handwashing with different preparations, and effects on bacterial load. Plain handwashing not so hot, better with various additives.

One of the points is that leftover antibacterial compounds on the skin may have a persistent effect, continuing the kill bugs even after the handwashing is done.

http://whqlibdoc.who.int/publications/2009/9789241597906_eng.pdf

Triclosan is discussed on p 36, and has more space devoted to it specifically because of resistance concerns. My personal favorite remains chlorhexidine.

Adding antimicrobial agents to soaps does improve actually bug-killing.

Now -- outside of healthcare facilities, I agree this likely DOES NOT MATTER and plain soap and water is likely fine. For people with normal immune systems, eating some bacteria is fine. (My kids in the house use the 5-minute rule for food on the floor.)

There is a place for antibacterial soaps. I agree, however, that everyone's shower is probably not it. My patients with recurrent skin and soft tissue infections may benefit, but for them I often go to chlorhexidine and ignore triclosan entirely.

/Why yes, I used to be the Medical Director of Infection Control at a small academic medical center, why do you ask?
 
2014-05-27 08:00:37 AM  
So banning 32oz drinks is bad but banning soap is good?

/fat, smelly, farkers...
 
2014-05-27 08:01:08 AM  

padraig: When I lived in the USA, I was astonished by the level at which you Americans sterilized anything and everything. "Life demands Lysol" ? Really ? I know I'm a dirty French, but do you really need to sterilize the couch ? American kids are shielded from germs, and the results are that they don't build any immunisation, and therefore fall il more often than their European couterparts ?


If you think you can be shielded from germs by dumping a few chemicals around a house, you have a serious misunderstanding of how bacteria work. Doing so is largely pointless (apart from dealing with certain specific risk factors, like after preparing raw meat), but also the idea that it has some impact on peoples immune systems is just as laughable.


TwistedFark: The more I've been reading about this, the more I'm like, "Who the fark decided this was a great thing to add to these products?"

Seriously, it's a great way to breed drug resistant germs.


No it isn't. Exposing germs to triclosan (or whatever), especially in an uncontrolled environment, can cause bacteria resistant to that particular active ingredient (and possibly chemically similar ingredients), which if it is the same one hospitals tend to use is bad. It doesn't make super-bacteria that are immune to everything.


The issues with antibiotic resistance is a separate issue where the bacteria in question have been exposed to the antibiotic itself (for example people that stop midway through taking a course of antibiotics because they "feel better", which of course tends to mean the most resistant of the bacteria to that type of antibiotic will still be hanging around and might be passed on to other people, thus tending to make the antibiotic to lose efficacy faster than you would expect.
 
2014-05-27 08:05:17 AM  

d23: Wait a second... I thought evolution wasn't real?!


You must have Minnesota confused with  some other state.
 
2014-05-27 08:08:05 AM  

MugzyBrown: BsIf I don't wash my hair in about 36 hours it's a stinky greasy mess.



Yeah I'm on this train also.   I've let it go 2 days and it looked like an oil slick, then when you wash it the shampoo doesn't lather at all so you  have to wash it twice to make sure all the oil is out of it.  Sucks to have oily hair, I even have short hair.  I couldn't imagine what it would look like if I had long hair.
 
2014-05-27 08:08:28 AM  

rebelyell2006: And after cleaning up dog shiat, you better believe I am using antibacterial soap.


Why? 

neversubmit: So banning 32oz drinks is bad but banning soap is good?


Reading comprehension fail or trolly?
 
2014-05-27 08:13:59 AM  

TwistedFark: MugzyBrown: AverageAmericanGuy: Frankly, soap itself isn't all that great for you either. The naturally-occurring bacteria on your body are a natural deodorant and protective layer, but soap washes it away and bacteria from other sources can invade, cause infections, and end up damaging your skin as well as really mess up your hygiene. Washing occasionally with warm water and a soft washcloth is the best way to promote "good" bacterial growth and prevent bad bacterial infection.

The "no-poo" anti-shampoo movement has seriously taken off in recent years, in large part to the novel Bridget Jones' Diary: The Edge of Reason. Shampoo strips hair of its natural oils, and an entire industry is built around providing "nourishing" conditioners which attempt to restore oil to hair but do a poor job mimicking what nature does so perfectly.

Anyway, good on Minnesota. Hopefully this is a successful first step towards a better place.

Bs

If I don't wash my hair in about 36 hours it's a stinky greasy mess.

I stopped using shampoo on my hair about a month ago. I really haven't noticed too much of a difference. Doesn't smell, doesn't really look any different after I dry it. Just normal hot water in the shower.

That being said, it's probably my limit for going "au natural". I have smelly pits, so soap everywhere else. Like double.


Just after washing my hair: dry Muppet hair.
Next day: greasy matted mess. Can see my scalp easily.
Next day: can't run mybhabd through my hair without feeling like I just ate fried chicken with my fingers.

Which is why I went "fark this shiat" and started giving myself a full buzz cut every weekend and forgot about the whole "hair thing".

/8mm guide comb
//might try the 4mm on both hair and beard to see hownit goes
 
2014-05-27 08:21:35 AM  
Probably would agree with these measures:
www.macroevolution.net
The bugs are becoming resistant to Triclosan and the level of Triclosan use will only push more bacteria in that direction. Besides, there are studies going back over a decade that have shown Triclosan resistance in bacteria like Staphylococcus aureus, which is on most peoples' skin but can cause necrotizing fasciitis (If you don't know what that is, do a GIS before you've had lunch).

Here's an research article about it: http://jac.oxfordjournals.org/content/46/1/11.full
 
2014-05-27 08:21:53 AM  

foo monkey: Monkeyhouse Zendo: foo monkey: You've never had a MRSA infection.

Ever wonder how we ended up with MRSA?

Not from soap, with or without triclosan. It's MRSA, not TRSA.


The over prescription of antibiotics by doctors
 
2014-05-27 08:21:59 AM  

hitlersbrain: Antibacterial soap makes about as much sense as antibacterial fire. Soap emulsifies the cell walls of bacteria so they will never mutate a way to defend against it. It has to be one of the most useful human inventions in history.


Personally, I think modern society is over-rated.  Soap just harms our natural immunity, and many modern conveniences really just get in the way of nature's grand design.  For instance, we should also do away with that invention "fire" you mention.  It gets in the way of our body's natural ability to generate heat and compensate for our environment.  It also lets us spread to and live in areas where we don't belong.  Also, "the wheel" should be outlawed as it's making everyone fat.  ...and don't even get me started on complex language, the opposable-thumb, or walking on two legs.  Unnatural, all of it!
 
2014-05-27 08:37:20 AM  
We've been gathering info about updating our shower with one of those nifty surround builds, and one of the companies proudly told us their product is the only one that uses Microban to prevent mold and mildew. I looked the stuff, and it's another name for triclosan, the antibacterial crap in soaps and shampoos and such. They're not getting my business, that's for sure. I don't allow hand soap in the house anymore with that stuff in it, I'm sure as hell not soaking in a bathtub made of the stuff.
 
2014-05-27 08:40:30 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: The "no-poo" anti-shampoo movement has seriously taken off in recent years, in large part to the novel Bridget Jones' Diary: The Edge of Reason. Shampoo strips hair of its natural oils, and an entire industry is built around providing "nourishing" conditioners which attempt to restore oil to hair but do a poor job mimicking what nature does so perfectly.


I seriously, for years, never understood why my sisters wouldn't wash their hair every night. I was completely revolted by the thought... Until second pregnancy and my hair started screaming about every shampoo I was using. Seriously, as sotuasaid dry Muppet hair. I was so fed up, I figured, at the very least, trying not-washing wouldn't kill anything. In fact, my daughter was born with 3A curly hair. I had to research how to take care of her curls because sending her to school looking like a homeless hippie wasn't going to cut it. Everything was all "DO NOT WASH CURLS EVERY NIGHT UNLESS YOU HATE YOURSELF." How true. How true.

I guess I always thought "not washing" meant not rinsing your hair with water.... So I just do that. Rinse/scalp massage with warm water while I'm in the shower. Conditioner every now and then and then shampoo after strenuous activities.
 
2014-05-27 08:42:32 AM  
"Richard Hamner, owner of Green Mountain Soap in Huntsville says he makes one of the purest soaps. "

Advertisement disguised as news.
 
2014-05-27 08:44:31 AM  

JohnTuttle: We've been gathering info about updating our shower with one of those nifty surround builds, and one of the companies proudly told us their product is the only one that uses Microban to prevent mold and mildew. I looked the stuff, and it's another name for triclosan, the antibacterial crap in soaps and shampoos and such. They're not getting my business, that's for sure. I don't allow hand soap in the house anymore with that stuff in it, I'm sure as hell not soaking in a bathtub made of the stuff.


Aw, shiate. Does Corian incorporate Microban? If not, I highly recommend it for shower surround. No one should use anything else for shower walls.
 
2014-05-27 08:52:26 AM  

sotua: Just after washing my hair: dry Muppet hair.


Carpy shampoo/conditioner. Tap water is pretty harsh - ph anywhere from 6.5 to 8 - and will strip sebum from hair and scalp. Which is why you use a decent acidic shampoo and conditioner which provide moisture.

Shampoo every 3rd day is fine... anything beyond that and I get squidgy...
 
2014-05-27 08:53:13 AM  
It surprises me that Triclosan is even included in these formulations anymore; I was easily able to demonstrate Triclosan's ineffectiveness as an antibacterial soap way back in my "clearance zone" experiments in 1994's Microbiology class.  We load up little paper dots with various antibacterial reagents, from Dial antibacterial to 10% bleach and the Triclosan in the soap didn't do diddly against the lab-basic "wild type" strains of Staphylococcus aureus or E. coli, two of the more ubiquitous bugs you'll experience in your day to day. Bleach or some variant thereof (usually something with quaternary ammonium detergents) always did best.  While I don't condone spraying your kid down with bleach, going back to basic soaps - all you're needing are the surfactants to lift oil and dirt, your body will do the rest - should be the goal.

Having kids in the early 2000s demonstrated that most basic infections (at least in our area) were laughing at amoxicillin alone but did die after getting hit with Augmentin, which was amoxicillin supplemented with clavulinate, a newer antibiotic which follows the same mechanism of effect.  Also, after having one son get a pre-MRSA strain of S. aureus from preschool, the entire house had some level of contamination (we all got little pimples that got inflammed and didn't go away easily); but my 3-year-old had a hard, swollen zone the size of a  silver dollar within 24-36 hours, which I had to lance in order to drain the infection.  Took 2 months of almost daily hospital-grade soap or Betadine rinses plus bleaching our tubs and showers to finally get rid of it.  A friend 3 towns over had a daughter who spent 2 weeks in the hospital when she was 2 after getting MRSA, and will have scars the rest of her life from it.  Nasty stuff.
 
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