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(CBS New York)   How bad is the heroin problem in New York? So bad that it is now easier to get than beer   (newyork.cbslocal.com) divider line 85
    More: Scary, Chuck Schumer, New York, tags, physical dependence, illegal drug, heroin, United States Department of Justice  
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7137 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 May 2014 at 5:26 PM (22 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-26 04:45:32 PM  
If it's easier to get than beer then what's the problem?
 
2014-05-26 04:50:37 PM  
Senator Charles "I Never Saw A Microphone I Wouldn't Speak Into" Schumer says he's asking for $100 million to end the heroin scourge.  So he is serious about leaving politics and joining his niece Amy as a comedy duo.
 
2014-05-26 05:05:02 PM  
Wouldn't it be cheaper to legalize the stuff and let Darwin sort things out?
 
433 [TotalFark]
2014-05-26 05:12:38 PM  

Riche: Wouldn't it be cheaper to legalize the stuff and let Darwin sort things out?


You would think, but, no.  The associated costs of dealing with addiction, the behavior or addicts themselves, and uh, more that I'm not in the mode to think of offhand, basically, the actual costs of addiction and the costs of addiction to society make the legalization of some drugs too much to justify.
 
2014-05-26 05:29:04 PM  
Time to get Popeye Doyle out of retirement.
 
2014-05-26 05:29:25 PM  
Damn, that heroin is poisonous!

Watch out for venomous needles!
 
2014-05-26 05:30:05 PM  

433: You would think, but, no.  The associated costs of dealing with addiction, the behavior or addicts themselves, and uh, more that I'm not in the mode to think of offhand, basically, the actual costs of addiction and the costs of addiction to society make the legalization of some drugs too much to justify.


Didn't Portugal successfully decriminalize everything?
 
2014-05-26 05:31:02 PM  
So how's that war on drugs going for you?
 
2014-05-26 05:31:16 PM  
Am I in before Heroin Hero?

/dude you can never catch the dragon.
 
2014-05-26 05:31:44 PM  
I've done almost every drug out there, and some way too much, but heroin never even appealed to me.  Coke?  Who doesn't want to take a line off a hookers ass.  Acid? Sure, I'd like to talk to a cloud tonight.  Smack?   Nah, I'm good on sitting on the floor in a corner sweating.
 
2014-05-26 05:32:59 PM  

davidphogan: Didn't Portugal successfully decriminalize everything?


IIRC they decided to treat drug addiction as a public health issue, rather than a criminal offence. Dunno whether it's working, but it can't be worse than the war on drugs.
 
2014-05-26 05:33:27 PM  

CruJones: I've done almost every drug out there, and some way too much, but heroin never even appealed to me.  Coke?  Who doesn't want to take a line off a hookers ass.  Acid? Sure, I'd like to talk to a cloud tonight.  Smack?   Nah, I'm good on sitting on the floor in a corner sweating.


It's wonderful. Seriously. That's why I stopped taking it after the 3rd or 4th time.
 
433 [TotalFark]
2014-05-26 05:34:15 PM  

davidphogan: Didn't Portugal successfully decriminalize everything?


Decriminalized, yes, legalized, no.  I do like their practice of replacing jailtime with therapy.  The difficulty is that for therapy to work, a user/addict must want to get clean.  It will be interesting to watch their experiment unfold over another decade or two.
 
2014-05-26 05:36:36 PM  
Therefore, no addict would have to settle for suppositories anymore:

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
433 [TotalFark]
2014-05-26 05:36:42 PM  

MFAWG: It's wonderful. Seriously. That's why I stopped taking it after the 3rd or 4th time.


Heroin is too good.  I wish I could have stopped, as you did.  It's been over a year since my last dose, and while I don't want it again, I am having trouble forgetting how good it made me feel.  All in time, I know, but it's tough!
 
2014-05-26 05:37:06 PM  
Sounds more like a beer problem.

drtfa
 
2014-05-26 05:37:48 PM  
This can't be possible. There's a law against it.
 
2014-05-26 05:37:53 PM  

433: Riche: Wouldn't it be cheaper to legalize the stuff and let Darwin sort things out?

You would think, but, no.  The associated costs of dealing with addiction, the behavior or addicts themselves, and uh, more that I'm not in the mode to think of offhand, basically, the actual costs of addiction and the costs of addiction to society make the legalization of some drugs too much to justify.


So instead we throw them in jail which is free.
 
2014-05-26 05:41:27 PM  
Unfortunately, heroin use shot up once the government started cracking down on prescription drug abuse.
 
2014-05-26 05:43:02 PM  

433: Riche: Wouldn't it be cheaper to legalize the stuff and let Darwin sort things out?

You would think, but, no.  The associated costs of dealing with addiction, the behavior or addicts themselves, and uh, more that I'm not in the mode to think of offhand, basically, the actual costs of addiction and the costs of addiction to society make the legalization of some drugs too much to justify.


Aren't most of those costs related to addicts doing crazy and violent shiat to get their next fix?

In that case, we need to make heroin legal and free.  You would only be able to get it at the government distribution center, so people trying to get clean wouldn't face temptation at every streetcorner. Have the centers provide some safe and clean places for them to shoot up out of sight of the general public.  There could even be an on-site crematorium for the regulars.  Easy-peasy.

It tends to get messier and more expensive if you are willing to get treatment for addicts who want to get off the junk.  As a "liberal" I solidly believe that such a service be available despite the added expense.

I'd bet such an arrangement (legal & free heroin and addiction treatment for those who want it) would be much cheaper and humane in the long run than the farked up system we have now.
 
2014-05-26 05:44:31 PM  
Good, American beer sucks.
 
2014-05-26 05:46:05 PM  

433: MFAWG: It's wonderful. Seriously. That's why I stopped taking it after the 3rd or 4th time.

Heroin is too good.  I wish I could have stopped, as you did.  It's been over a year since my last dose, and while I don't want it again, I am having trouble forgetting how good it made me feel.  All in time, I know, but it's tough!


Congratulations, I instantly understood the appeal, and never touched it again. It was cheap and incredibly plentiful in Europe when I was stationed there. A few guys never did stop.
 
2014-05-26 05:46:55 PM  
we should start beating our kids more. that way they'll listen to us and not use drugs.
 
2014-05-26 05:49:29 PM  

Gaylord Q. Tinkledink: Good, American beer sucks.


Sure it does kid. Sure it does.

i1213.photobucket.com

www.theperfectlyhappyman.com

cdn2.bigcommerce.com

www.slate.com
 
2014-05-26 05:52:48 PM  

Prey4reign: Senator Charles "I Never Saw A Microphone I Wouldn't Speak Into" Schumer says he's asking for $100 million to end the heroin scourge.  So he is serious about leaving politics and joining his niece Amy as a comedy duo.


You get a gold star for this one.

/love that biatch
 
2014-05-26 05:53:44 PM  
HIDTA is not tied to any agency, but it does help federal drug trafficking investigations with intelligence sand surveillance.

gobbledygeekbtr.files.wordpress.com

What sand surveillance may look like.
 
433 [TotalFark]
2014-05-26 05:54:26 PM  

Riche: Aren't most of those costs related to addicts doing crazy and violent shiat to get their next fix?


Accidents under the influence, dropping out of society, unpaid bills from hospital visits, violence (including that what you mention), incurring debt and defaulting...

Even if heroin was legal, it would not mean that addicts would always have the disposable income for it.  If it was legal, and I had any money, I'd be spending it all on a habit spiraling out of control.  Again.  Maybe that's just me, but I don't think so.

Does anyone seriously advocate legalizing or decriminalizing methamphetamine?  I'm not trying to equate the two drugs...
 
2014-05-26 05:57:37 PM  
Alcohol is responsible for far more destruction of lives and societal costs than any illegal drug.
 
2014-05-26 05:58:16 PM  
FTFA: "Every time I walk into a funeral or a shiva call for a young person - which I've done a lot so far this year - I see the end result of unfettered drug access," Reynolds said.

It's almost as if pushing something onto the black market makes it difficult to control. But don't worry, I'm sure an extra $100 million worth of law enforcement will solve the problem.
 
2014-05-26 05:59:07 PM  

Riche: 433: Riche: Wouldn't it be cheaper to legalize the stuff and let Darwin sort things out?

You would think, but, no.  The associated costs of dealing with addiction, the behavior or addicts themselves, and uh, more that I'm not in the mode to think of offhand, basically, the actual costs of addiction and the costs of addiction to society make the legalization of some drugs too much to justify.

Aren't most of those costs related to addicts doing crazy and violent shiat to get their next fix?

In that case, we need to make heroin legal and free.  You would only be able to get it at the government distribution center, so people trying to get clean wouldn't face temptation at every streetcorner. Have the centers provide some safe and clean places for them to shoot up out of sight of the general public.  There could even be an on-site crematorium for the regulars.  Easy-peasy.

It tends to get messier and more expensive if you are willing to get treatment for addicts who want to get off the junk.  As a "liberal" I solidly believe that such a service be available despite the added expense.

I'd bet such an arrangement (legal & free heroin and addiction treatment for those who want it) would be much cheaper and humane in the long run than the farked up system we have now.


Vancouver is actually doing something very similar to what you describe (minus the crematoria, of course) with some success.
 
2014-05-26 06:04:01 PM  
And this leads to Jennifer Connelly going ass-to-ass.
 
2014-05-26 06:07:39 PM  
Well, at least the laws making cigarettes cost $38 a pack have kept the junkies from smoking.
 
2014-05-26 06:08:00 PM  

433: Riche: Aren't most of those costs related to addicts doing crazy and violent shiat to get their next fix?

Accidents under the influence, dropping out of society, unpaid bills from hospital visits, violence (including that what you mention), incurring debt and defaulting...

Even if heroin was legal, it would not mean that addicts would always have the disposable income for it.  If it was legal, and I had any money, I'd be spending it all on a habit spiraling out of control.  Again.  Maybe that's just me, but I don't think so.

Does anyone seriously advocate legalizing or decriminalizing methamphetamine?  I'm not trying to equate the two drugs...


So what's wrong with these people's outlook on life that heroin seems to be a good thing to do?  And don't give me the "adolescent brain until 22; impulsive decision making" woo.  Making the decision to try heroin is not something you do on a whim.  And anybody who's not under a rock knows that it kills people.
 
2014-05-26 06:08:54 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-05-26 06:12:46 PM  

Gunderson: Unfortunately, heroin use shot up once the government started cracking down on prescription drug abuse.


Bingo! The politicians lined their pockets with money from big pharma lobbies who wanted to use opiates in pain killers again. A practice which had stopped because of the highly physically addicting properties of the opiate based painkillers. But big pharma had a new drug called oxycontin that they needed to sell. Then once the streets were flooded with opiate addicts, due to pill mills doctor shopping and unscrupulous doctors, they cracked down on the availability and all of a sudden the millions of addicts they created are unable to get a drug that they now need to avoid becoming deathly ill. So the once popular opiate based heroin becomes the only thing that can "save" them. And now, put them in jail, to solve the problem they created.

And we just let theses people continue to lead us....
 
2014-05-26 06:14:07 PM  

Aarontology: Alcohol is responsible for far more destruction of lives and societal costs than all the illegal drugs combined.


ftfy.
 
2014-05-26 06:15:04 PM  

Gary Coleman's kidneys: Gunderson: Unfortunately, heroin use shot up once the government started cracking down on prescription drug abuse.

Bingo! The politicians lined their pockets with money from big pharma lobbies who wanted to use opiates in pain killers again. A practice which had stopped because of the highly physically addicting properties of the opiate based painkillers. But big pharma had a new drug called oxycontin that they needed to sell. Then once the streets were flooded with opiate addicts, due to pill mills doctor shopping and unscrupulous doctors, they cracked down on the availability and all of a sudden the millions of addicts they created are unable to get a drug that they now need to avoid becoming deathly ill. So the once popular opiate based heroin becomes the only thing that can "save" them. And now, put them in jail, to solve the problem they created.

And we just let theses people continue to lead us....


And all 850,000 prescribing physicians were in on the scam, too.  That's impressive.
 
433 [TotalFark]
2014-05-26 06:16:29 PM  

FrancoFile: So what's wrong with these people's outlook on life that heroin seems to be a good thing to do?


I got started through a serious injury, and scaled the ladder of painkillers afterwards.  I'd already had serious addiction issues, I liked feeling different.  I was in a bad place, mentally, and I didn't really care what happened to me.  I knew the risks, but I did not care.  That was how it happened for others that I knew, also.  Already prone for drug use or drug abuse, looking for something to make life a little better.

I was in a rehab program once with a guy that couldn't keep from drinking, but thought that heroin was the stupidest thing, ever.  He'd already shot himself in the head by accident, but couldn't stop drinking.  Addiction is a different story for everyone, but ultimately, it's the same thing for everyone - just hoping to feel a little better.

Not everyone makes the best choices in life, as though we have to learn the hard way, first
 
2014-05-26 06:19:15 PM  

FrancoFile: 433: Riche: Aren't most of those costs related to addicts doing crazy and violent shiat to get their next fix?

Accidents under the influence, dropping out of society, unpaid bills from hospital visits, violence (including that what you mention), incurring debt and defaulting...

Even if heroin was legal, it would not mean that addicts would always have the disposable income for it.  If it was legal, and I had any money, I'd be spending it all on a habit spiraling out of control.  Again.  Maybe that's just me, but I don't think so.

Does anyone seriously advocate legalizing or decriminalizing methamphetamine?  I'm not trying to equate the two drugs...

So what's wrong with these people's outlook on life that heroin seems to be a good thing to do?  And don't give me the "adolescent brain until 22; impulsive decision making" woo.  Making the decision to try heroin is not something you do on a whim.  And anybody who's not under a rock knows that it kills people.


Hi, I'm from the 70s. The Gubment had been lying to us for decades about marijuana, and we knew it.
 
2014-05-26 06:20:04 PM  
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
 
2014-05-26 06:20:36 PM  

433: Riche: Aren't most of those costs related to addicts doing crazy and violent shiat to get their next fix?

Accidents under the influence, dropping out of society, unpaid bills from hospital visits, violence (including that what you mention), incurring debt and defaulting...


That sounds a lot like the results of being sent to jail and becoming unemployable because of a nonviolent drug conviction.


Even if heroin was legal, it would not mean that addicts would always have the disposable income for it.  If it was legal, and I had any money, I'd be spending it all on a habit spiraling out of control.  Again.  Maybe that's just me, but I don't think so.

What if it was free?


Does anyone seriously advocate legalizing or decriminalizing methamphetamine?  I'm not trying to equate the two drugs...


It's your body-- I don't think the government should get a veto on what you may do to it, as long as you are not endangering others.

Besides, didn't we used to give meth to soldiers and military pilots to keep them awake?

I absolutely could be wrong, but I strongly suspect most of the bad stuff we see with meth today is the result of amateur chemists using nasty household solvents when cooking that stuff, and the idiots who smoke meth rather than take a controlled dose in tablet form.
 
2014-05-26 06:29:02 PM  
i believe it, weed,acid,x,meth, and coke was a hell of alot easier to get than beer back when i was underage.
 
2014-05-26 06:33:08 PM  

433: Riche: Aren't most of those costs related to addicts doing crazy and violent shiat to get their next fix?

Accidents under the influence, dropping out of society, unpaid bills from hospital visits, violence (including that what you mention), incurring debt and defaulting...

Even if heroin was legal, it would not mean that addicts would always have the disposable income for it.  If it was legal, and I had any money, I'd be spending it all on a habit spiraling out of control.  Again.  Maybe that's just me, but I don't think so.

Does anyone seriously advocate legalizing or decriminalizing methamphetamine?  I'm not trying to equate the two drugs...


Methamphetamine was the most prescribed drug in America for the longest time. It was great for weight loss, alleviating depression, and general stimulation.
 
2014-05-26 06:33:57 PM  

DreamyAltarBoy: [img.fark.net image 720x480]


In Flanders fields the poppies blow
      Between the crosses, row on row,
   That mark our place; and in the sky
   The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
   Loved and were loved, and now we lie
         In Flanders fields.
Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
   The torch; be yours to hold it high.
   If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
         In Flanders fields.
 
2014-05-26 06:34:16 PM  
I want to be a part of it, New York, New York.
 
2014-05-26 06:34:58 PM  

433: Riche: Wouldn't it be cheaper to legalize the stuff and let Darwin sort things out?

You would think, but, no.  The associated costs of dealing with addiction, the behavior or addicts themselves, and uh, more that I'm not in the mode to think of offhand, basically, the actual costs of addiction and the costs of addiction to society make the legalization of some drugs too much to justify.


In the `70's the RAND Corp. looked into the costs in the DC area.  At the time the estimated cost of a single bracing dose of Skag (from the farmer to the user) was three cents.  The price tacked on by middlemen/dealers and the resulting overall cost to society (burglaries/robberies/incarceration, primarily) brought the cost per dose up to $500.00.

We could have gone into Afghanistan and become THE market maker for Opium Poppies.  We could have paid the highest price and had the farmers take half in cash and half in NATO goods/free education at Western Schools for their kids.  We'd have been ahead on intel/propaganda and, if we'd wanted, destroyed the entire purchased crop and STILL have come out ahead.  I'd have legalized Heroin, sold it OTC to anyone over 21 who wanted it and offered treatment for those who wanted it.  At most, only 10% of the population has a tendency to become `addicted' (this is the reason major surg. post-op patients can self medicate with a push button these days - only 10% of post-op patients keep pushing the button as the pain decreases).
Darwin would take the hindmost.  The long term users would end up dosing to achieve a functional state and go on about their business.
Should be treated as a medical/legal problem when the user interferes with the life/liberty of other citizens, or seeks out treatment on their own.

Won't happen, but not because the cost is higher.
 
2014-05-26 06:39:15 PM  

davidphogan: 433: You would think, but, no.  The associated costs of dealing with addiction, the behavior or addicts themselves, and uh, more that I'm not in the mode to think of offhand, basically, the actual costs of addiction and the costs of addiction to society make the legalization of some drugs too much to justify.

Didn't Portugal successfully decriminalize everything?


www.dribbleglass.com
 
2014-05-26 06:40:59 PM  

CruJones: I've done almost every drug out there, and some way too much, but heroin never even appealed to me.  Coke?  Who doesn't want to take a line off a hookers ass.  Acid? Sure, I'd like to talk to a cloud tonight.  Smack?   Nah, I'm good on sitting on the floor in a corner sweating.


what about meth?
 
2014-05-26 06:42:27 PM  

some_beer_drinker: DreamyAltarBoy: [img.fark.net image 720x480]

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
      Between the crosses, row on row,
   That mark our place; and in the sky
   The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
   Loved and were loved, and now we lie
         In Flanders fields.
Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
   The torch; be yours to hold it high.
   If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
         In Flanders fields.


That poem is about remembrance poppies, the symbol that the British Commonwealth uses on their version of Memorial day. Apropos for this day in the U.S., Nov 11 in the Commonwealth.
 
2014-05-26 06:47:09 PM  

haywatchthis: i believe it, weed,acid,x,meth, and coke was a hell of alot easier to get than beer back when i was underage.


Agreed, when I was underage obtaining alcohol was just as about as hard as obtaining any other drug.

The difference being you could sometimes get alcohol from your parents or some other persons parents, but the parents often went through the kids to get drugs.

The weed I got in high school was five times better than the crap my step-dad used to pick up at the biker bar.
 
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