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(Venture Beat)   Microsoft challenges the FBI...and wins. Shame about all the audits and deportations, though   (venturebeat.com) divider line 23
    More: Interesting, FBI, Microsoft, security letters, NSLs, Steven Aftergood, VentureBeat  
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2099 clicks; posted to Business » on 27 May 2014 at 6:45 AM (18 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



23 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-05-27 04:32:47 AM
/ sarcasm mode ON

Everyone knows that whole "due process" thing just lets the terrorists win.

/ sarcasm mode OFF

Good for Microsoft. Let's hope more of the tech companies grow some freaking balls.
 
2014-05-27 06:22:15 AM
I'm glad to see someone is finally sticking up for enterprise level customers
 
2014-05-27 07:00:58 AM
can be issued by any FBI office without a court's approval

Because of the gag order that accompanies a NSL, a recipient apparently may not even discuss it with their attorney


What in the flying fark is wrong with your country? No--one has a problem with something like this?
 
2014-05-27 07:30:01 AM

lucksi: can be issued by any FBI office without a court's approval

Because of the gag order that accompanies a NSL, a recipient apparently may not even discuss it with their attorney

What in the flying fark is wrong with your country? No--one has a problem with something like this?


Well, no one with the ability to change it.
 
2014-05-27 08:28:31 AM

lucksi: can be issued by any FBI office without a court's approval

Because of the gag order that accompanies a NSL, a recipient apparently may not even discuss it with their attorney

What in the flying fark is wrong with your country? No--one has a problem with something like this?


Not at all, we all love it. Everything that happens in the US is because we all want it that way. Just as I'm sure you, your family and friends all support the NPD.
 
2014-05-27 08:33:08 AM
Seems like they only "won" because the FBI got the information they wanted anyhow.
 
2014-05-27 08:36:59 AM

lucksi: can be issued by any FBI office without a court's approval

Because of the gag order that accompanies a NSL, a recipient apparently may not even discuss it with their attorney

What in the flying fark is wrong with your country? No--one has a problem with something like this?


A lot of the libbiest libs ever to lib did. A good many Farkers and Farkettes did. Unfortunately the lib politicians were browbeat and voted out for being 'soft on terror' and many of the Farkers got tired of saying 'told you it was stupid' a long time ago.
 
2014-05-27 08:41:48 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Seems like they only "won" because the FBI got the information they wanted anyhow.


I'd still call it a win since it exposes what is probably the most common scenario, that the feds invoke the nuclear option simply because they can and not because it's necessary. Even if it's more of a procedural matter, anything to push back the "fark you, we do what we want" attitude is a good thing.
 
2014-05-27 08:45:18 AM

lucksi: can be issued by any FBI office without a court's approval

Because of the gag order that accompanies a NSL, a recipient apparently may not even discuss it with their attorney

What in the flying fark is wrong with your country? No--one has a problem with something like this?


I'd like to see this challenged and brought out into the light. You know, nonchalantly hand the letter to the attorney during an "unrelated" press conference. Don't mention what it is, just have the handoff incidentally recorded in front of witnesses who don't know what the letter is.

Then if it gets prosecuted, there is lots of footage of the act that can be played up in sympathy during and after the trial. Manufacture a whole media circus and even if you go down, make the agency pay for it in public backlash.

I can't imagine that corporate attorneys like this situation. Give them a chance to voice the problems with it in open court.
 
2014-05-27 08:55:25 AM
National Security Letter == Letter de cache
 
2014-05-27 09:00:20 AM
Huzzah for Microsoft. Get rid of the damn PATRIOT Act.
 
2014-05-27 09:01:11 AM

inglixthemad: lucksi: can be issued by any FBI office without a court's approval

Because of the gag order that accompanies a NSL, a recipient apparently may not even discuss it with their attorney

What in the flying fark is wrong with your country? No--one has a problem with something like this?

A lot of the libbiest libs ever to lib did. A good many Farkers and Farkettes did. Unfortunately the lib politicians were browbeat and voted out for being 'soft on terror' and many of the Farkers got tired of saying 'told you it was stupid' a long time ago.


The 'libbiest libs' no longer have a problem with it because Obama is in charge. Look at Fark.
 
2014-05-27 09:15:58 AM

bagumpity: National Security Letter == Letter de cache


Absolutely, especially when coupled with a gag order. It's time we started to tone down the goose-stepping, eh, folks? It's almost 13 years after 9/11, and we're still exploiting that event to stomp on basic rights in the name of "national security."
 
2014-05-27 09:47:26 AM

lucksi: can be issued by any FBI office without a court's approval

Because of the gag order that accompanies a NSL, a recipient apparently may not even discuss it with their attorney

What in the flying fark is wrong with your country? No--one has a problem with something like this?


Who doesn't have a problem with this?
 
2014-05-27 09:51:29 AM

syrynxx: Huzzah for Microsoft. Get rid of the damn PATRIOT Act.


The article states the NSL was made more powerful with the PATRIOT Act, which indicates it existed before.

But no worries - the PATRIOT Act will go away. . .to be replaced by something more encompassing.  Once you have traded a right for the illusion of safety, do not expect to get it back.  At least any time soon.
 
2014-05-27 10:13:56 AM

yakmans_dad: Who doesn't have a problem with this?


Polls from  Wapo/ABC and Gallup back in 2004 and 2005 found majority support for PATRIOT at the time.

Not that I would find it hard to believe that people that stupid wouldn't have arbitrarily flipped their position since then, but it's not like this law and its various bits and pieces, including the NSL expansions, were just passed without support. The ABC/Wapo poll found a very strong majority - 80% - of Republicans supported its extension, in fact.

People love to biatch and whine about things like this after the fact, but the reality is that most people supported it at the time. They just didn't bother to actually understand what it was "because scary terrorist bogeyman".

PATRIOT, Iraq War v2.0 and NSA spying. Funny how many people were for those things before they were against them...
 
2014-05-27 10:31:31 AM

yakmans_dad: lucksi: can be issued by any FBI office without a court's approval

Because of the gag order that accompanies a NSL, a recipient apparently may not even discuss it with their attorney

What in the flying fark is wrong with your country? No--one has a problem with something like this?

Who doesn't have a problem with this?


In case you hadn't noticed, our country really isn't interested in what we, the 99%, think any more. Our job is to provide income and support for the 1%, who in turn have purchased Congress to ensure their reign.

It's amazing how quickly we became an oligarchy in all but name. A catastrophic event provided the catalyst for a lot, a LOT, of money and favors to exchange hands, and when the dust settled, the rich had a stranglehold on the country at our expense. We care, but we don't matter. Not any more. We have the illusion of choice when voting - we get to vote for our choice of rich guys - and even then, our votes may not count.

Not when the Supreme Court can decide a presidency. Not when states can deliberately manipulate their own processes to ensure that a particular candidate wins. Not when voting itself can become a contentious issue, manipulated specifically to disenfranchise the poor.

Of course we have a problem with the idea of a National Security Letter with a gag order - it violates even the very idea of our normal legal process. But, you see, we just work here - it's not our country any more.
 
2014-05-27 04:37:39 PM
I love the FBI.  Don't you?
 
2014-05-27 06:27:06 PM
Don't blame me, I voted for Feingold
 
2014-05-27 07:59:24 PM

inglixthemad: Unfortunately the lib politicians were browbeat and voted out for being 'soft on terror' lying when they claimed to oppose this and many of the Farkers got tired of saying 'told you it was stupid' a long time ago started defending this once their team was in charge of it.

 
2014-05-28 10:14:01 AM

BullBearMS: inglixthemad: Unfortunately the lib politicians were browbeat and voted out for being 'soft on terror' lying when they claimed to oppose this and many of the Farkers got tired of saying 'told you it was stupid' a long time ago started defending this once their team was in charge of it.


Sounds terrible. Who?
 
2014-05-28 04:27:04 PM

yakmans_dad: BullBearMS: inglixthemad: Unfortunately the lib politicians were browbeat and voted out for being 'soft on terror' lying when they claimed to oppose this and many of the Farkers got tired of saying 'told you it was stupid' a long time ago started defending this once their team was in charge of it.

Sounds terrible. Who?


Our lying liar in chief.

In recent months, Barack Obama has forcefully defended the use of the Patriot Act to gather the phone records of every American. But before he was elected president, he had a very different perspective on the issue.

In December 2005, Congress was debating the first re-authorization of the Patriot Act, a controversial 2001 law that gave the federal government expanded power to spy on Americans. And Barack Obama was one of nine senators who signed a letter criticizing the then-current version of the legislation for providing insufficient protections for civil liberties.

The senators focused on Section 215 of the Patriot Act, which allows the government to obtain "business records" that are "relevant" to a terrorism investigation. Sen. Obama and eight of his colleagues worried that the provision would "allow government fishing expeditions targeting innocent Americans. We believe the government should be required to convince a judge that the records they are seeking have some connection to a suspected terrorist or spy."

Congress eventually re-authorized the Patriot Act, including Section 215. A few years later, Obama was elected president of the United States. And under President Obama's watch, the NSA engaged in surveillance suspiciously similar to the broad "fishing expeditions" Sen. Obama warned about.

The government has argued that records of every phone call made in the United States are "relevant" to counter-terrorism investigations generally, allowing them to obtain information about the private phone calls of millions of Americans - exactly the kind of argument Sen. Obama warned the government would make if the language of Section 215 wasn't tightened.


It was oh so very wrong, before I was in charge of it!
 
2014-05-28 04:41:58 PM

BullBearMS: yakmans_dad: BullBearMS: inglixthemad: Unfortunately the lib politicians were browbeat and voted out for being 'soft on terror' lying when they claimed to oppose this and many of the Farkers got tired of saying 'told you it was stupid' a long time ago started defending this once their team was in charge of it.

Sounds terrible. Who?

Our lying liar in chief.

In recent months, Barack Obama has forcefully defended the use of the Patriot Act to gather the phone records of every American. But before he was elected president, he had a very different perspective on the issue.

In December 2005, Congress was debating the first re-authorization of the Patriot Act, a controversial 2001 law that gave the federal government expanded power to spy on Americans. And Barack Obama was one of nine senators who signed a letter criticizing the then-current version of the legislation for providing insufficient protections for civil liberties.

The senators focused on Section 215 of the Patriot Act, which allows the government to obtain "business records" that are "relevant" to a terrorism investigation. Sen. Obama and eight of his colleagues worried that the provision would "allow government fishing expeditions targeting innocent Americans. We believe the government should be required to convince a judge that the records they are seeking have some connection to a suspected terrorist or spy."

Congress eventually re-authorized the Patriot Act, including Section 215. A few years later, Obama was elected president of the United States. And under President Obama's watch, the NSA engaged in surveillance suspiciously similar to the broad "fishing expeditions" Sen. Obama warned about.

The government has argued that records of every phone call made in the United States are "relevant" to counter-terrorism investigations generally, allowing them to obtain information about the private phone calls of millions of Americans - exactly the kind of argument Sen. Obama warned the government would mak ...


In all fairness he did say, "If you like your Patriot Act, you can keep it"
 
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